Transformers and More @ The Seibertron Store
![Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "ENERGON UNIVERSE 2024 SPECIAL #1 Cvr C 1:10 Image Comics 0324IM168 1C (CA)Ottley"](https://www.seibertron.com/images/ebay/comic-books/image/energon-universe/01C/t-DSC05947.jpg)
![Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "DUKE #5 Cvr A Image Comics 2024 5A GI JOE 0224IM262 (A/CA) Reilly (W) WIlliamson"](https://www.seibertron.com/images/ebay/comic-books/image/gijoe/duke/05A/t-DSC04949.jpg)
![Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "VOID RIVALS #9 Cvr A Image Comics 2024 0324IM301 9A (A/CA) De Felici (W) Kirkman"](https://www.seibertron.com/images/ebay/comic-books/image/void-rivals/09A/t-DSC06634.jpg)
Sometimes that smaller scale is more entertaining than a realistic portrayal of warfare. Said smaller scale is even one of the reasons this Bumblebee movie is drawing in so much more critical acclaim than all of the previous five films put together,Salacious_Monk wrote:ZeroWolf wrote:I'm afraid I must disagree as in my view (your milage will vary) both of those series are superior to G1 toon. The G1 toon was just a toy commercial where you bad characters appearing for no reason (hey Astrotrain where did you come from! And the protectorbots! At least the aerialbots, stunticons, combaticons and technobots got an introduction)
In terms of story, yes, the stories of the two series are OK. Some of the G1 stories are not well-written.
But if you have too few characters (like in Beast Wars and Armada), the WAR between autobots and decepticons will be just like a feud between two small gangs...
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:Sometimes that smaller scale is more entertaining than a realistic portrayal of warfare. Said smaller scale is even one of the reasons this Bumblebee movie is drawing in so much more critical acclaim than all of the previous five films put together,Salacious_Monk wrote:ZeroWolf wrote:I'm afraid I must disagree as in my view (your milage will vary) both of those series are superior to G1 toon. The G1 toon was just a toy commercial where you bad characters appearing for no reason (hey Astrotrain where did you come from! And the protectorbots! At least the aerialbots, stunticons, combaticons and technobots got an introduction)
In terms of story, yes, the stories of the two series are OK. Some of the G1 stories are not well-written.
But if you have too few characters (like in Beast Wars and Armada), the WAR between autobots and decepticons will be just like a feud between two small gangs...
And it's not like the G1 cartoon always had every single Autobot and Decepticon go into every single battle in every single episode.
ZeroWolf wrote:And the G1 fights were more of a comedic brawl then a war. You wanted a war you had two choices, your imagination or the comics. Having a larger cast means nothing.
ZeroWolf wrote:A larger cast is incredibly expensive though, hence why in revenge of the Fallen onwards the cons got bulked out by reskinned models that they had already used. The 07 movie had a smaller cast as well and is the most favourable of the live action movies (till Bee of course) in a movie setting you have two hours to keep people's attention. A large cast and making them distinct from each other is a very tall order, that's before you even think about plot. Until it changes, paramount will also keep the human element, which again requires time to develop them.
Now all of this is possible but you have to be careful with your choices. Marvel worked because they didn't throw the Avengers at you at the very beginning, each got a movie to sell themselves, so the Avengers movie could sell you them as a team. Only curveball with this approach is of course Guardians of the Galaxy, but we weren't getting them any other way, and their first film did suffer from marvel villain syndrome.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:If anything, a bigger cast would give less screen time to everyone except the one or two who'd get to be the main leads.
The G1 cartoon's cast was so big for its own good that, despite most of the following characters (and I use that term loosely) showing up often and frequently, I'd be hard pressed to tell you anything personally about Prowl, Bluestreak, Sideswipe, Windcharger, Mirage, Trailbreaker, Skywarp, Thundercracker, any of the Constructicons besides Long Haul, Skids, Dirge, Thrust, Ramjet, Air Raid, Skydive, Fireflight, any of the Stunticons besides Motormaster, any of the Combaticons besides Swindle, any of the Protectobots besides First Aid, Pipes, Swerve, Tailgate, Runabout, Runamuck, Broadside, any of the Predacons, any of the Terrorcons, any of the Technobots, any of the Throttlebots besides Goldbug (since he's just Bumblebee), Slugfest, Overkill, Fastlane, Cloudraker, Pounce, Wingspan, Punch, Chromedome, Skullcruncher, Weirdwolf, Apeface, Snapdragon, Pointblank, Sureshot, Crosshairs, Slugslinger, or Sixshot, just by going off the G1 cartoon alone without also consulting their toy bios and/or any of their comic depictions.
And most of the ones who were memorable were mostly because of an oft-repeated one-note quirk rather than a compelling fleshed out personality. And that was because the cast was too big to develop everyone equally.
Sabrblade wrote:If anything, a bigger cast would give less screen time to everyone except the one or two who'd get to be the main leads.
The G1 cartoon's cast was so big for its own good that, despite most of the following characters (and I use that term loosely) showing up often and frequently, I'd be hard pressed to tell you anything personal about Prowl, Bluestreak, Sideswipe, Windcharger, Mirage, Trailbreaker, Skywarp, Thundercracker, any of the Constructicons besides Long Haul, Skids, Dirge, Thrust, Ramjet, Air Raid, Skydive, Fireflight, any of the Stunticons besides Motormaster, any of the Combaticons besides Swindle, any of the Protectobots besides First Aid, Pipes, Swerve, Tailgate, Runabout, Runamuck, Broadside, any of the Predacons, any of the Terrorcons, any of the Technobots, any of the Throttlebots besides Goldbug (since he's just Bumblebee), Slugfest, Overkill, Fastlane, Cloudraker, Pounce, Wingspan, Punch, Chromedome, Skullcruncher, Weirdwolf, Apeface, Snapdragon, Pointblank, Sureshot, Crosshairs, Slugslinger, or Sixshot, just by going off the G1 cartoon alone without also consulting their toy bios and/or any of their comic depictions.
And most of the ones who were memorable were mostly because of an oft-repeated one-note quirk rather than a compelling fleshed out personality. And that was because the cast was too big to develop everyone equally.
ZeroWolf wrote:We already have had a 100% cgi transformers movie, Predacons Rising.
That was also a smaller cast.
Bigger cast does not equal a great movie. Movie studios want their films to make as much money as possible, especially if based on a kids toy franchise like this, so they'll want to make as much for as least possible. But as I said earlier things may change but don't expect it to happen over night.
Salacious_Monk wrote:Sabrblade wrote:If anything, a bigger cast would give less screen time to everyone except the one or two who'd get to be the main leads.
The G1 cartoon's cast was so big for its own good that, despite most of the following characters (and I use that term loosely) showing up often and frequently, I'd be hard pressed to tell you anything personal about Prowl, Bluestreak, Sideswipe, Windcharger, Mirage, Trailbreaker, Skywarp, Thundercracker, any of the Constructicons besides Long Haul, Skids, Dirge, Thrust, Ramjet, Air Raid, Skydive, Fireflight, any of the Stunticons besides Motormaster, any of the Combaticons besides Swindle, any of the Protectobots besides First Aid, Pipes, Swerve, Tailgate, Runabout, Runamuck, Broadside, any of the Predacons, any of the Terrorcons, any of the Technobots, any of the Throttlebots besides Goldbug (since he's just Bumblebee), Slugfest, Overkill, Fastlane, Cloudraker, Pounce, Wingspan, Punch, Chromedome, Skullcruncher, Weirdwolf, Apeface, Snapdragon, Pointblank, Sureshot, Crosshairs, Slugslinger, or Sixshot, just by going off the G1 cartoon alone without also consulting their toy bios and/or any of their comic depictions.
And most of the ones who were memorable were mostly because of an oft-repeated one-note quirk rather than a compelling fleshed out personality. And that was because the cast was too big to develop everyone equally.
Of course, but you can say the same thing to hawkeye, falcon and war machine...But why do avengers still have such a large cast? You don't need to flesh out all the characters in the movie. You can do it through comics or novels (making more money).
ZeroWolf wrote:Salacious_Monk wrote:Sabrblade wrote:If anything, a bigger cast would give less screen time to everyone except the one or two who'd get to be the main leads.
The G1 cartoon's cast was so big for its own good that, despite most of the following characters (and I use that term loosely) showing up often and frequently, I'd be hard pressed to tell you anything personal about Prowl, Bluestreak, Sideswipe, Windcharger, Mirage, Trailbreaker, Skywarp, Thundercracker, any of the Constructicons besides Long Haul, Skids, Dirge, Thrust, Ramjet, Air Raid, Skydive, Fireflight, any of the Stunticons besides Motormaster, any of the Combaticons besides Swindle, any of the Protectobots besides First Aid, Pipes, Swerve, Tailgate, Runabout, Runamuck, Broadside, any of the Predacons, any of the Terrorcons, any of the Technobots, any of the Throttlebots besides Goldbug (since he's just Bumblebee), Slugfest, Overkill, Fastlane, Cloudraker, Pounce, Wingspan, Punch, Chromedome, Skullcruncher, Weirdwolf, Apeface, Snapdragon, Pointblank, Sureshot, Crosshairs, Slugslinger, or Sixshot, just by going off the G1 cartoon alone without also consulting their toy bios and/or any of their comic depictions.
And most of the ones who were memorable were mostly because of an oft-repeated one-note quirk rather than a compelling fleshed out personality. And that was because the cast was too big to develop everyone equally.
Of course, but you can say the same thing to hawkeye, falcon and war machine...But why do avengers still have such a large cast? You don't need to flesh out all the characters in the movie. You can do it through comics or novels (making more money).
Not everyone reads them plus they can be rendered pointless by the next film...look at all the tie ins to the live action tf movies.
The MCU is a whole a different animal. The Avengers films can handle having large main casts because they allowed the other movies leading up to each of them to give focus to all of if the main characters (or in Hawkeye's case, Age of Ultron gave particular focus to him). That's how the Avengers films themselves work as ensemble films. They bring together familiar faces that we've gotten to know on a more personal level in the surrounding MCU movies. And yet, somehow, the Avengers films also still manage to find a way to adequately juggle everyone's screentime focus relatively evenly.Salacious_Monk wrote:Of course, but you can say the same thing to hawkeye, falcon and war machine...But why do avengers still have such a large cast? You don't need to flesh out all the characters in the movie. You can do it through comics or novels (making more money).
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:The MCU is a whole a different animal. The Avengers films can handle having large main casts because they allowed the other movies leading up to each of them to give focus to all of if the main characters (or in Hawkeye's case, Age of Ultron gave particular focus to him). That's how the Avengers films themselves work as ensemble films. They bring together familiar faces that we've gotten to know on a more personal level in the surrounding MCU movies. And yet, somehow, the Avengers films also still manage to find a way to adequately juggle everyone's screentime focus relatively evenly.Salacious_Monk wrote:Of course, but you can say the same thing to hawkeye, falcon and war machine...But why do avengers still have such a large cast? You don't need to flesh out all the characters in the movie. You can do it through comics or novels (making more money).
Whereas the G1 cartoon just threw in everyone from 1984 right out of the gate, and only kept adding more characters as time went on, and yet still chose to give the majority focus to a fraction of its main cast, leaving the large remainder an army of dudes we saw all the time but barely ever got to know.
That's partly why every cartoon afterward and some* of the live action movies (especially this Bumblebee movie) scaled back the main cast roster to a core group of characters that get ample focus and development between each of them, allowing us to get to know each of them more personally than most of the G1 cartoon's cast ever got, thereby further enhancing the meaningfulness of both the narrative of the ongoing storyline and our viewing experience overall.
* -- By "some" of the live action movie I mean those like the 2007 one, AOE, and this Bumblebee movie, where the characters were more clearly defined in their smaller units. ROTF, DOTM, and TLK, meanwhile, had expanded rosters full of generics and nobodies added to their robot casts.
Burn wrote:hough I can understand why it's gone off topic, I don't know what purpose this thread even serves any more now that we have a spoiler one.[/size]
Burn wrote:So how about that Bumblebee movie ...
(Though I can understand why it's gone off topic, I don't know what purpose this thread even serves any more now that we have a spoiler one.)
We set the film 20 years prior to the events of the first film, but so-we still needed some degree of continuity there.
Va'al wrote:Deadput wrote:Actually I don't know my mother's name is Valerie so is Va'al actually my mother?
Yes. Now go to your room and don't play with yourself.
Return to Transformers Live Action Film Forum
Registered users: Bing [Bot], DeathReviews, Glyph, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Hero Alpha, Majestic-12 [Bot], MSN [Bot], Optimus Eeyore, Thundertron