Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[Dr. Caelus]

So you're actually completely fine with being referred to as he, she, or they?

Call me what you want, I don't care.

Screenshot that everyone.

I don't care. I know I'm ME and I don't depends on the opinions of others to validate my existence.

So, the gender identity assigned to you by others is irrelevant?

All that matters is your implicit belief in your own gender identity?

We are the mice in that utopia experiment. The reality check will come soon enough.

Oh Lord.

[-Kanrabat-]

Oh Lord.

Laugh all you want. Reality will come knocking sooner or later.

[Dr. Caelus]

Oh Lord.

Laugh all you want. Reality will come knocking sooner or later.

That's not reality.

And you didn't answer the question:

I don't care. I know I'm ME and I don't depends on the opinions of others to validate my existence.

So, the gender identity assigned to you by others is irrelevant?

All that matters is your implicit belief in your own gender identity?

[-Kanrabat-]

How many times must I repeat myself?
I'm done talking to you.

It's like arguing with a hardcore christian that Evolution is a thing. It's pointless and fruitless.

[Dr. Caelus]

How many times must I repeat myself?
I'm done talking to you.

It's like arguing with a hardcore christian that Evolution is a thing. It's pointless and fruitless.

So you refuse to answer this question:

I don't care. I know I'm ME and I don't depends on the opinions of others to validate my existence.

So, the gender identity assigned to you by others is irrelevant?

All that matters is your implicit belief in your own gender identity?

Simply because I'm the one who asked it?

So if other people asked the same thing, you would have no trouble answering?

[Dr. Caelus]

Just to keep everyone honest here:

[Rodimus Prime]

Just to keep everyone honest here:

Screenshot_20230520_092229_Chrome.jpg

"Everyone?"

You haven't noticed, but you're the only one keeping this schiffshow going for the last page or so. There hasn't been a mention of Earthspark in a while.

[Dr. Caelus]

Just to keep everyone honest here:

Screenshot_20230520_092229_Chrome.jpg

"Everyone?"

You haven't noticed, but you're the only one keeping this schiffshow going for the last page or so. There hasn't been a mention of Earthspark in a while.

Kanrabat insists that featuring nonbinary characters in Earthspark is pushing 'fetishes' on children and contributing to what she imagines to be 'mental illness' for people who do not identify with their assigned gender.

Yet Kanrabat also affirms that what matters is not ones assigned gender, but what they themself believe their gender is.

Nightshade's character in Earthspark simply communicates that same idea - that other people don't dictate your gender to you.

[Rodimus Prime]

Just to keep everyone honest here:

Screenshot_20230520_092229_Chrome.jpg

"Everyone?"

You haven't noticed, but you're the only one keeping this schiffshow going for the last page or so. There hasn't been a mention of Earthspark in a while.

Kanrabat insists that featuring nonbinary characters in Earthspark is pushing 'fetishes' on children and contributing to what she imagines to be 'mental illness' for people who do not identify with their assigned gender.

Yet Kanrabat also affirms that what matters is not ones assigned gender, but what they themself believe their gender is.

Nightshade's character in Earthspark simply communicates that same idea - that other people don't dictate your gender to you.

So what's the problem? No matter how much baiting you do it's not going to change anything.

[Dr. Caelus]

Just to keep everyone honest here:

Screenshot_20230520_092229_Chrome.jpg

"Everyone?"

You haven't noticed, but you're the only one keeping this schiffshow going for the last page or so. There hasn't been a mention of Earthspark in a while.

Kanrabat insists that featuring nonbinary characters in Earthspark is pushing 'fetishes' on children and contributing to what she imagines to be 'mental illness' for people who do not identify with their assigned gender.

Yet Kanrabat also affirms that what matters is not ones assigned gender, but what they themself believe their gender is.

Nightshade's character in Earthspark simply communicates that same idea - that other people don't dictate your gender to you.

So what's the problem? No matter how much baiting you do it's not going to change anything.

Oh, I'm sure Kanrabat won't change, but there are plenty of other people who are reading this - people who she's accused of being mentally ill, people she's likened to child predators, people she's decried as her oppressors, etc. - and I'd like to think that pointing out Kanrabat's BS gives them at least some peace.

[Rodimus Prime]

Just to keep everyone honest here:

Screenshot_20230520_092229_Chrome.jpg

"Everyone?"

You haven't noticed, but you're the only one keeping this schiffshow going for the last page or so. There hasn't been a mention of Earthspark in a while.

Kanrabat insists that featuring nonbinary characters in Earthspark is pushing 'fetishes' on children and contributing to what she imagines to be 'mental illness' for people who do not identify with their assigned gender.

Yet Kanrabat also affirms that what matters is not ones assigned gender, but what they themself believe their gender is.

Nightshade's character in Earthspark simply communicates that same idea - that other people don't dictate your gender to you.

So what's the problem? No matter how much baiting you do it's not going to change anything.

Oh, I'm sure Kanrabat won't change, but there are plenty of other people who are reading this - people who she's accused of being mentally ill, people she's likened to child predators, people she's decried as her oppressors, etc. - and I'd like to think that pointing out Kanrabat's BS gives them at least some peace.

Define "plenty." Nonetheless, at the end of the day this is still a stalemate. Both of you have your views on the issue and neither will be changed by the other's stance. So this is going nowhere.

[Dr. Caelus]

Define "plenty."

Given how broad Kanrabat's attacks on 'wokeness' were earlier in this exchange, about half of the people commenting then, plus the unknown portion of people saying nothing. I'm sure we would disagree on how that latter category would split numbers wise.

Nonetheless, at the end of the day this is still a stalemate.

That's an interpretation.

[Rodimus Prime]

Nonetheless, at the end of the day this is still a stalemate.

That's an interpretation.

It's the correct one, considering neither of you is budging.

[Rodimus Prime]

So let me get this right, your anger, and that's clearly what it is, is based on what you feel is an overabundance of LGBTQI in media.

I'm not angry, I'm annoyed. That's why I'm only venting. If it made me angry, it would mean I hated it (which I don't, and did not even mildly allude to such so don't assume) and I would express such a feeling.

You say you're aware of the inadequate representation of LGBTQI up until recently, and now feel there's an overabundance of it.

But again, put yourself in the shoes of those in th eLGBTQI communities who had to hide who they were because society, and laws, didn't allow them to be who they are, those people who had to watch media and see how, in their minds, straight people and relationships were in overabundance.

It's still the majority. There's just a bit more variety.

Agreed. I stated the same thing. I'm not against them having representation. They should, they have that right. I just think the proportion of representation is not being kept in perspective. And considering that you're from a different country (and even continent) let me stress this: I'm referring to what I see every day here in the Unites States only. I'm not even going to refer to Canada, even if it's a neighboring country. So if you think Australian society doesn't properly represent LGBT people in its every day popular culture and media, I'll take your word for it.

SO let me ask you this ... why do you allow it to get to you personally? What is YOUR stake in minimising the normalisation of LGBTQI people in society?

You're either assuming or misunderstanding. I have no stake in minimizing any group of people, other than the 1 I am a part of. I'm not advocating minimizing any group. I'm simply asking media representation to be kept properly proportional according to the size of a specific group as a percentage of the total population.

And let me clarify 1 more very important point:

I'm not blaming this on LGBT people as as group. I'm blaming this on mainstream media for sensationalizing the issue, like they do with everyone else. Because it's insincere. They're not doing it for equality reasons, they're doing it for profit. They just pretend to be righteous, when they're really just greedy, and that's disgusting and unacceptable.

[william-james88]

FYI, I'll be doing a cleanup here.

[Rodimus Prime]

The majority of it however comes from overseas (primarily US and UK). So I consume a lot of foreign made media. So this whole "you don't understand, you're from another country" argument you seem to throw at me every now and then isn't as valid as you'd like to think it is.

Are you referring to me specifically? Or to posters with whom you've had conversations in general? I don't remember suggesting that before, nor am I saying it now. I simply stated it as a possibility in case we were having a misunderstanding, not as a concrete fact in this situation.

What I don't understand though is your argument for "proportion". How do you even calculate that when LGBTQI people are still, for lack of a better term, emerging?

Again, I agree that the LGBT community has yet to be defined in terms of a quantifiable section of society. And quite possibly it may never happen, considering the nature of the process that takes place, such as self-realization, transition, and possibly others that I'll freely admit I don't fully understand because I'm not a part of it. What I tried to clarify is when I say proportion, I'm referring to a percentage of the population that identifies as a member of the LGBT community in some way. But that will never happen because unfortunately it would make them easier targets for those who actively try to silence them through words and actions.

I do get your point, and it harkens back to Kanrabat's point about this being the latest "big deal" because I do see it, I just don't see how it affects me in a negative manner, I see it as a good thing as society becomes more accepting of it.

It is a good thing. To use your word, normalizing it makes it more acceptable and not something to be feared and ridiculed. As for it affecting you negatively, if you say it doesn't, it doesn't. But you can't (or shouldn't) project your views on others. Everyone should have the freedom to think and live how they want to, even if you don't agree with some of them, and even if those very same people don't agree that you should be able to think and live how you want to. If they attempt to force their way of living on you, then you have a problem.

Existing thread at point, it's one character, one episode, is that an over-abundance? Is that under-representation? How do you measure it exactly to find the right balance?

In the case of Earthspark and Nightshade, I would call it under-representation. It all depends on the total number of characters on the show. The number of LGBT (or on this case, non-binary, as I'm not actually certain which letter that falls under) characters should mirror the percentage of them in overall society. But since we don't have that number due to reasons I stated above, it's virtually impossible. But I would think it's more than one.

But, in reference to the general idea I brought up to begin with, to reiterate a point previously made by -Kanrabat-, it's too much too fast. Which is why it is interpreted by some like myself as over-representation. It's not as easily accepted by some of us as it is by others, for various circumstances. Human nature is not easily changed fundamentally. It takes time. Case in point, what you stated above regarding the state of the LGBT community now as opposed to 50 years ago. Should they have been more readily accepted back then like they are now? Absolutely. But society in general was different then, and it will be 60 years from now. Hopefully for the better. Assuming we don't annihilate ourselves.

As far as LGBTQI representation in entertainment media is concerned, some handle it well, in that it's there but not shoeved in your face while other media blatantly shove it in your face and that's a leading contributor to pushback.

My original argument. At least we can partially agree.

[Dr. Caelus]

Reflecting on the past week or so of this thread, I'm just going to exit on saying that I have heard a lot here that sounds chillingly, like this:

Our whole public life today is like a hothouse for sexual ideas and simulations. Just look at the bill of fare served up in our movies, vaudeville and theaters, and you will hardly be able to deny that this is not the right kind of food, particularly for the youth...Theater, art, literature, cinema, press, posters, and window displays must be cleansed of all manifestations of our rotting world and placed in the service of a moral, political, and cultural idea.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Warnings have been issued.

Staff have discussed the issues of the particular story that set this thread in motion, and it will not be repeated. There should not be this much cleanup required.

several of you went way too far off the topic, and created a mess where no one was any good to each other.

so we are stamping that out once and for all, across the board.

Further off topic posts, targeted posts, or just plain mean-spirited posts will not be tolerated, and suspensions will be given.

Now, back to the actual show topic.

[MaximalNui]

So, after taking a break to finish my thesis, I come back to find this mess going on. Kinda reminds me why it took me so long to enter an online forum in the first place...

I forgot mentioning the real reason why the "they/they" pronoms nag ME so much. No matter where it's used.

I'm from a latin language people. My native language is FRENCH.
In French, like for Espanyol or Italian, or any other latin language, EVERYTHING IS GENDERED.
I mean, literally everything. A table is female, the sun is male, a TV is either male or female depending how you call it, and so on. Even concepts like "it is hot" are male or female like "il fait chaud" (male-pronoun is hot.)

The only way a "they/they" could be translated into French would be by either the MALE pronoun "il", as in the general "he" to designate anything by default, or the very unnatural sounding and truly dehumanising "ça" or "it". If that robot call himself "it", well, it just consider itself like a soulless object.

I wonder how the show creators handled that "they/they" conundrum for the French, Espanyol, Italian, and so on versions?

Oh, by the way, that whole LATINX thing... Never, ever use it outside of a college campus. For your own safety.

We can probably check how the French, Spanish, Italian, etc. dubs handled Nightshade if someone here who has Paramount+ could simply switch the audio from English to one of those languages if they are on there.

Netflix and Disney+ both have additional language audio options for the shows on them, so if Paramount+ does as well, then we may be able to check.

I'm Portuguese and watching the show on Nickelodeon (which for some reason doesn't have an original language option in my cable service, unlike Disney Channel or Cartoon Network ) instead of Paramount+, so I can tell how they did here, and they kinda...avoided the question, but not really? Most of the scene remained, but they avoided using any pronouns: Mo said that "Nightshade doesn't identify as male or female", and Optimus instead answered with "move your piece". According to TFWiki, the same thing happened in the Italian dub, but strangely in the Brazilian Portuguese dub, they used the unofficial "elu/delu". Weird.

Then again, dubbing in my country is very poor, especially for TV animated media. Most characters sound like they're reading the script instead of emoting, kid or high-pitched characters are screaming half the time to get the pitch, and lines sometimes get changed either by misinterpreting them (Megatron's "The robot gets me every time" in ep. 2 turned into "The robot is me") or no apparent reason (Alex wants to use Bee's stingers in ep. 4 to "grill sausages" instead of "toast tortillas" even though we know what tortillas are here, we're right next to Spain for crying out loud!).

ANYWAY, back to actually discussing the show, do you think we'll see the possession-mutation grubs GHOST were experimenting on Bear Necessities in a future episode? Maybe as enhanced human soldiers, or their version of an organic Transformer like Noble/Savage? It just felt too out of left field and different from the typical anti-Transformer weaponry to be a one-off thing.

[Sabrblade]

ANYWAY, back to actually discussing the show, do you think we'll see the possession-mutation grubs GHOST were experimenting on Bear Necessities in a future episode? Maybe as enhanced human soldiers, or their version of an organic Transformer like Noble/Savage? It just felt too out of left field and different from the typical anti-Transformer weaponry to be a one-off thing.

I feel very confident that that was all set up for things to come later in future episodes down the line, yes.

[-Kanrabat-]

(Alex wants to use Bee's stingers in ep. 4 to "grill sausages" instead of "toast tortillas" even though we know what tortillas are here, we're right next to Spain for crying out loud!).

[MaximalNui]

ANYWAY, back to actually discussing the show, do you think we'll see the possession-mutation grubs GHOST were experimenting on Bear Necessities in a future episode? Maybe as enhanced human soldiers, or their version of an organic Transformer like Noble/Savage? It just felt too out of left field and different from the typical anti-Transformer weaponry to be a one-off thing.

I feel very confident that that was all set up for things to come later in future episodes down the line, yes.

I sure hope so, otherwise it'll be just a very bizarre plot point.

(Alex wants to use Bee's stingers in ep. 4 to "grill sausages" instead of "toast tortillas" even though we know what tortillas are here, we're right next to Spain for crying out loud!).

See, at least the "donuts" make sense, clumsy editing as it is; they're very particular to Japanese cuisine, so the average Western kid probably won't be familiar with them. But a Portuguese dub changing references to tortillas into sausages is like an American dub changin a reference to maple syrup into powdered sugar.

Anyway, apparently someone found listings for Earthspark in UK and South America Netflix servers. If the rest of Europe follows suit, soon I might not have to endure poor dubs anymore.

On another note, I remember the early theory before the show launched that GHOST might be related to the Quintessons because of their skull-like insignia. But did anyone ever try to connect them to the other skull-like manipulative alien species with much stronger connections to Earth?


I mean, I think Quintessons are far more likely, and shady human organizations don't need alien conspiracies to be shady anyway, but it's still an interesting possibility.

[Sabrblade]

Season 1 comes back with its final batch of episodes premiering on Paramount+ on July 28, 2023!

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Season 1 comes back with its final batch of episodes premiering on Paramount+ on July 28, 2023!

finally!!!!

[Tyrannacon]

Outside of Paramount+ and I think YouTube TV, are there any places to watch Transformers Earthspark? I know I tried watching the first episode about a week or two ago, but I ended up getting 20 minutes into it because I just wasn't in a particularly good head space to watch it. Since then I canceled the YouTube TV service to save some money before my girlfriend and I's eventual move in August for her new job.