The Energon Pub

[LOST Cybertronian]

Any reason Leader Starscream is 60$ (!!!!!) on Walmart.com? It sounds crazy to me:
http://www.walmart.com/search/?query=starscream

Because it says sold and shipped by Toywiz not Walmart. Like how Amazon has marketplace sellers.

Oh I see, I didnt know the US site for Walmart allowed that too, thanks!

I wasn't aware of that either to be honest

[Ironhidensh]

Dont know if a leader is shipping alongside Skywarp but I sure hope its G1 (Grey/Silver) Megatron. He is the only one that is hard to find or completely sold out. In canada, he is now sold out from Walmart, Toysrus and Amazon, while armada megs (the green one) is everywhere. If Hasbro wants to play it smart, just release more of the G1 deco megs in 2016, it seems we cant get enough of him.

MOVING ON... I have some stuff to say about the Leader seekers. I was about to buy them the other day because they are quite cheap (35$cdn/27$US in stores) and as I was holding the Starscream box, I took a good look at him and realized how dissapointing he was as a toy.

The first thing that made me flinch was the headsculpt. For some mind boggling reason, Hasbro has the hardest time coming up with a good seeker head. They put lines that dont need to be there. Takara does that with the masterpiece, giving him a pronounced chin but what Hasbro does here is that and more. I hadnt noticed it before but the nose is all sorts of wack:


Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Starscream Gallery

He has these two lines that branch out at the top of his nose, making it look like it was pinned to his face and not part of it, kinda like he's the scarecrow from wizard of oz. Your eyes go directly to his nose:



It was more distracting than I thought it would be. And his eyes are totally lifeless. I dont know, the faceculpt just didnt scream Starscream to me in the least and was more generic seeker (which was probably their goal).

But beyond that, I realized how this mold doesnt work for a seeker at all. Sure, when you look at it, the first thing you see is the chest and you'd think it was a great rendition of the IDW seeker design below:



But if you take more than a second to look elsewhere, you realize that its only the torso area that is similar and everything else is very different:


Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Starscream Gallery

The exhausts end up in back of the head instead of the back of the feet, there is no tail find on the feet, there are no triangular parts at the sides of the head, the arms are all wrong and my biggest pet peeve: the wing design in the back is not at all that of a seeker's. Instead of having the two wings, you have thing canopy with absolutely no color. Here is a better and far more definite version of that IDW design and you can tell how it looks very different to the Leader class:


Transformers Generations Starscream Gallery

Another seeker trait is of course the seeker chest and the designs show the nosecone extending beyond the mid section. It doesnt on the Leader mold, making it look more like a chest design imitating a nosecone rather than an actual nosecone, unlike the Legion class toy (from RTS), which had a fake nosecone chest but clearly intended it to portray the actual nosecone rather than a chest design resembling the nosecone.


Transformers Reveal The Shield Starscream Gallery

And please note that I am not being nitpicky on the hallowness or any of that, this is specifically design and how it fails to capture what its trying to do.

This made me think about Jetfire. Why wasnt I this nitpicky? Well, turns out its because he is indeed far better suited for this mold and a lot more care went into him.

Here is the animation model they were basing it off and trying to modernize:



The wings in the back have colour (as they of course would), but this mold doesnt, right?

Nope, Jetfire had those exact colours on his wings in the back:


Transformers Generations Jetfire Gallery

Also, look at how well it recreates the torso area, and making it extra sleek. It definitely benefits on the fake chest, giving you a show accurate chest for the robot mode while giving you a nice cockpit area to replicate the G1 toy. The headsculpt is also spot on (with that awesome extra mask), and they give us those red turrets which you can pose to recreate the G1 look (using the toy's look of having a space between them).

So all in all, there was a lot more love that went into this mold being Jetfire while the Seekers look like an afterthought, especially when you look at the wing area. The same mold that beautifully homaged two distinct Jetfire looks at once totally fails at giving us a good looking seeker.

Anyways, this was all to say that I am never getting these seeker toys, no matter the price and you can see my logic behind that.

So very well spoken. Or written, I guess. sums up my feelings well. This mold is Jetfire, pure as simple. Jetfire is supposed to be much larger than the typical 'bot, even the Decepticons. Repainting the Seekers in this generic way just cheapens the characters all around.

Not to mention the Seekers are important enough to warrant their own mold. This is typical Hasbro pissing on the fans to earn a cheap buck.

[steals_your_goats]

Not to mention the Seekers are important enough to warrant their own mold. This is typical Hasbro pissing on the fans to earn a cheap buck.

When will this sense of unwarranted self entitlement and? Sorry to say but Hasbro doesn't owe you or anyone else ANYTHING. Sure the fans but the toys but they're not the main audience. Children always have been and always will be their priority, anything else is just extra. And as far as any toys go there's a very simple answer for those who don't like the way that took a particular figure, ignore it. No one is forcing you to buy these figures and these being made doesn't erase all other forms of it from existance.

To be clear this isn't necessarily directed at you but instead a blanket statement. But I swear sometimes this fandom drives me to drink..

[Counterpunch]

My desire for comic accurate seekers made me dip into the Generations Leader option for a week or two.

Not only did the problems sited here bother me, but the height was just too much. It was one instance were I very reluctantly looked to the unofficial options.

I mean, really...doesn't it seem like Voyager sized seekers are a gold mine for general retail?

I'm happy with this:

but I would have preferred not to pay hand over fist for it.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

That really is something that I don't get either. Voyager is perfect for the seekers, yet that is the one size class that is never used for them. We've gotten legends, deluxe, and leader, but no voyager, and that is the size that makes the most sense! Don't get me wrong I like all the size classes and will get the leader seekers, but I really believe hasbro is losing out on the right size class here

[Cobotron]

Were the armada Seekers voyager or leader?

[Sabrblade]

Were the armada Seekers voyager or leader?

Max-Con, which was roughly the big Voyager or small Ultra equivalent of its time. Giga-Cons were more like today's Leaders, but a bit smaller like really big Ultras (save for Tidal Wave, who was taller than even today's Leaders).

[Ironhidensh]

The animated seekers were voyager.

[Cobotron]

So Armada had it's own size classes? Interesting.

Ha! Armada and Animated. Two aesthetics that don't scratch the "Classics" itch.
Just remembered Movie Voyager Seeker too. So we can't say, It's never been done. Just that it's never been done the way we really want it done.

Sabr, when did the size class categories we currently use start? Classics? RID/Car Robots?
Were Beast wars "Deluxes" called Deluxe?

[Ironhidensh]

Not to mention the Seekers are important enough to warrant their own mold. This is typical Hasbro pissing on the fans to earn a cheap buck.

When will this sense of unwarranted self entitlement and? Sorry to say but Hasbro doesn't owe you or anyone else ANYTHING. Sure the fans but the toys but they're not the main audience. Children always have been and always will be their priority, anything else is just extra. And as far as any toys go there's a very simple answer for those who don't like the way that took a particular figure, ignore it. No one is forcing you to buy these figures and these being made doesn't erase all other forms of it from existance.

To be clear this isn't necessarily directed at you but instead a blanket statement. But I swear sometimes this fandom drives me to drink..

Actually, Hasbro owes us everything. They kinda depend on the consumer. You don't understand what you consider an entitlement mentality? That's cool, I'll never understand why so many fans blindly support and buy cheap repaints just because Hasbro is stamped on them. To each their own I suppose.

[albnok]

Does Transformers Prime Voyager Starscream count?

[steals_your_goats]

Not to mention the Seekers are important enough to warrant their own mold. This is typical Hasbro pissing on the fans to earn a cheap buck.

When will this sense of unwarranted self entitlement and? Sorry to say but Hasbro doesn't owe you or anyone else ANYTHING. Sure the fans but the toys but they're not the main audience. Children always have been and always will be their priority, anything else is just extra. And as far as any toys go there's a very simple answer for those who don't like the way that took a particular figure, ignore it. No one is forcing you to buy these figures and these being made doesn't erase all other forms of it from existance.

To be clear this isn't necessarily directed at you but instead a blanket statement. But I swear sometimes this fandom drives me to drink..

Actually, Hasbro owes us everything. They kinda depend on the consumer. You don't understand what you consider an entitlement mentality? That's cool, I'll never understand why so many fans blindly support and buy cheap repaints just because Hasbro is stamped on them. To each their own I suppose.

The main consumers are parents and children not collectors, I don't know how you can even try and argue that point. You feel that Hasbro owes you something because you buy their stuff, that's entitlement, not really sure where the confusion is, and I don't think anyone just buys everything Hasbro puts out because they put it out, people buy things because they like them.

What I don't understand is why this fandom, as spoiled as it is, is so ungrateful. You have 2 main companies pouring out products, other companies putting out upgrade kits and even other unofficial products and You still find thing after thing to complain about. Try being a star wars 3.75" collector now a days where we only have Hasbro and they're putting out limited articulation crap as opposed to the super articulated figures we got just a few years ago.

I'm not saying you have to like everything, even I don't, but at least count your blessings that you have so many options for things to buy where some fandoms only have one.

[Sabrblade]

So Armada had it's own size classes? Interesting.

Ha! Armada and Animated. Two aesthetics that don't scratch the "Classics" itch.
Just remembered Movie Voyager Seeker too. So we can't say, It's never been done. Just that it's never been done the way we really want it done.

Sabr, when did the size class categories we currently use start? Classics? RID/Car Robots?
Were Beast wars "Deluxes" called Deluxe?

Here's a history of the size classes (needs some updating, though) - http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Size_class

[Counterpunch]

The main consumers are parents and children not collectors, I don't know how you can even try and argue that point.

Because it's an unsubstantiated trope that has never been confirmed, validated, or outright acknowledged by the company in question. Further, the slated batch of toys in both this franchise and others both now and in the past few years quietly works to disprove the notion.

You feel that Hasbro owes you something because you buy their stuff, that's entitlement

Wrong.

That's not entitlement. You are using the word incorrectly.

There is a consumer relationship between the company and the fans. It IS a two-way relationship. The company is rewarded with profits for quality product and the consumers are owed products that appeal to their interests and sensibilities to make the relationship enduring.

not really sure where the confusion is

Because you haven't even tried to understand the opposing point of view. You're touting statements without support to take some kind of pseudo intellectual high-ground.

I don't think anyone just buys everything Hasbro puts out because they put it out, people buy things because they like them.

Agreed. You should lead off with relevant points like this.

What I don't understand is why this fandom, as spoiled as it is, is so ungrateful. You have 2 main companies pouring out products, other companies putting out upgrade kits and even other unofficial products and You still find thing after thing to complain about. Try being a star wars 3.75" collector now a days where we only have Hasbro and they're putting out limited articulation crap as opposed to the super articulated figures we got just a few years ago.

I'm not saying you have to like everything, even I don't, but at least count your blessings that you have so many options for things to buy where some fandoms only have one.

Fine, but your statement that the fandom is ungrateful is off mark and without merit.

Gratefulness can be measured in only one way: Are the products being purchased?

Most of the current lines have been moving at a very good clip.

So...in short, stop trying to quash dissent and let people voice their complaints. Just as people don't need to be complete sh1ts in voicing their dislike of something, not all criticism or desire for improvement is without merit or point.

[Hellscream9999]

Not to mention the Seekers are important enough to warrant their own mold. This is typical Hasbro pissing on the fans to earn a cheap buck.

When will this sense of unwarranted self entitlement and? Sorry to say but Hasbro doesn't owe you or anyone else ANYTHING. Sure the fans but the toys but they're not the main audience. Children always have been and always will be their priority, anything else is just extra. And as far as any toys go there's a very simple answer for those who don't like the way that took a particular figure, ignore it. No one is forcing you to buy these figures and these being made doesn't erase all other forms of it from existance.

To be clear this isn't necessarily directed at you but instead a blanket statement. But I swear sometimes this fandom drives me to drink..

Actually, Hasbro owes us everything. They kinda depend on the consumer. You don't understand what you consider an entitlement mentality? That's cool, I'll never understand why so many fans blindly support and buy cheap repaints just because Hasbro is stamped on them. To each their own I suppose.

The main consumers are parents and children not collectors, I don't know how you can even try and argue that point. You feel that Hasbro owes you something because you buy their stuff, that's entitlement, not really sure where the confusion is, and I don't think anyone just buys everything Hasbro puts out because they put it out, people buy things because they like them.

What I don't understand is why this fandom, as spoiled as it is, is so ungrateful. You have 2 main companies pouring out products, other companies putting out upgrade kits and even other unofficial products and You still find thing after thing to complain about. Try being a star wars 3.75" collector now a days where we only have Hasbro and they're putting out limited articulation crap as opposed to the super articulated figures we got just a few years ago.

I'm not saying you have to like everything, even I don't, but at least count your blessings that you have so many options for things to buy where some fandoms only have one.

I always thought hasbro owed us transformers, guess I've been wrong all this time


Guess some people just can't get with the times, styles change, get over it

[Hellscream9999]

The main consumers are parents and children not collectors, I don't know how you can even try and argue that point.

Because it's an unsubstantiated trope that has never been confirmed, validated, or outright acknowledged by the company in question. Further, the slated batch of toys in both this franchise and others both now and in the past few years quietly works to disprove the notion.

You feel that Hasbro owes you something because you buy their stuff, that's entitlement

Wrong.

That's not entitlement. You are using the word incorrectly.

There is a consumer relationship between the company and the fans. It IS a two-way relationship. The company is rewarded with profits for quality product and the consumers are owed products that appeal to their interests and sensibilities to make the relationship enduring.

While I think you are correct about the 2-way relationship, that does not mean that hasbro should produce G1 stuff at the exclusion of anything else; there is just as large a fan base for IDW stuff as there is for BW or armada, so, at some level they owe us representation from many lines, not just G1; now others might say 'G1 fans have the most money to burn', but guess what? Fans will prioritize purchases should a figure they really want come out. Happened to me with the BW figures, happened to others with the foc stuff, or armada screamer, so that point is moot.

[steals_your_goats]

So...in short, stop trying to quash dissent and let people voice their complaints. Just as people don't need to be complete sh1ts in voicing their dislike of something, not all criticism or desire for improvement is without merit or point.

That's not what I'm trying to do at all. I have no issue with complaints. Criticism is important to developing, but what I have a problem with are all the unnecessary "they're doing this because they hate the fans" comments. Which is what sparked my initial remark.

[Ironhidensh]

Not to mention the Seekers are important enough to warrant their own mold. This is typical Hasbro pissing on the fans to earn a cheap buck.

When will this sense of unwarranted self entitlement and? Sorry to say but Hasbro doesn't owe you or anyone else ANYTHING. Sure the fans but the toys but they're not the main audience. Children always have been and always will be their priority, anything else is just extra. And as far as any toys go there's a very simple answer for those who don't like the way that took a particular figure, ignore it. No one is forcing you to buy these figures and these being made doesn't erase all other forms of it from existance.

To be clear this isn't necessarily directed at you but instead a blanket statement. But I swear sometimes this fandom drives me to drink..

Actually, Hasbro owes us everything. They kinda depend on the consumer. You don't understand what you consider an entitlement mentality? That's cool, I'll never understand why so many fans blindly support and buy cheap repaints just because Hasbro is stamped on them. To each their own I suppose.

The main consumers are parents and children not collectors, I don't know how you can even try and argue that point. You feel that Hasbro owes you something because you buy their stuff, that's entitlement, not really sure where the confusion is, and I don't think anyone just buys everything Hasbro puts out because they put it out, people buy things because they like them.

What I don't understand is why this fandom, as spoiled as it is, is so ungrateful. You have 2 main companies pouring out products, other companies putting out upgrade kits and even other unofficial products and You still find thing after thing to complain about. Try being a star wars 3.75" collector now a days where we only have Hasbro and they're putting out limited articulation crap as opposed to the super articulated figures we got just a few years ago.

I'm not saying you have to like everything, even I don't, but at least count your blessings that you have so many options for things to buy where some fandoms only have one.

Listen, I'm not trying to have a war with you. Repaints are a part of transformer toys, I get that. Has been ever since '84. Some characters, however, should be exempt. The Seekers are among them. Doesn't matter what the line is, generations, game based, or armada, the Seekers should be unique. I will not be great full for repaints on iconic characters. What's next, Motormaster repainted into Optimus Prime? Oh wait....

[Hellscream9999]

Listen, I'm not trying to have a war with you. Repaints are a part of transformer toys, I get that. Has been ever since '84. Some characters, however, should be exempt. The Seekers are among them. Doesn't matter what the line is, generations, game based, or armada, the Seekers should be unique. I will not be great full for repaints on iconic characters. What's next, Motormaster repainted into Optimus Prime? Oh wait....

While I'm not surprised hasbro milked the seeker mold for so long, I would be surprised if they didn't have a nice updated one (preferably voyager, and not too classics blocky style - I really like the look of that idw verison ) to re-use for the next decade.

They get so much mileage out of them, it just makes business sense to make a nice updated version. But they have to know consumers (in general) are not going to put up with them using the cheap leader mold for the next 10 years (about how long the classics mold lasted)

[steals_your_goats]

Listen, I'm not trying to have a war with you. Repaints are a part of transformer toys, I get that. Has been ever since '84. Some characters, however, should be exempt. The Seekers are among them. Doesn't matter what the line is, generations, game based, or armada, the Seekers should be unique. I will not be great full for repaints on iconic characters. What's next, Motormaster repainted into Optimus Prime? Oh wait....

While I'm not surprised hasbro milked the seeker mold for so long, I would be surprised if they didn't have a nice updated one (preferably voyager, and not too classics blocky style - I really like the look of that idw verison ) to re-use for the next decade.

They get so much mileage out of them, it just makes business sense to make a nice updated version. But they have to know consumers (in general) are not going to put up with them using the cheap leader mold for the next 10 years (about how long the classics mold lasted)

I don't think they'll go any father than Skywarp with the leader mold. While it's easy to keep painting it, the leader molds don't sell as well as the smaller ones.

[Hellscream9999]

Listen, I'm not trying to have a war with you. Repaints are a part of transformer toys, I get that. Has been ever since '84. Some characters, however, should be exempt. The Seekers are among them. Doesn't matter what the line is, generations, game based, or armada, the Seekers should be unique. I will not be great full for repaints on iconic characters. What's next, Motormaster repainted into Optimus Prime? Oh wait....

While I'm not surprised hasbro milked the seeker mold for so long, I would be surprised if they didn't have a nice updated one (preferably voyager, and not too classics blocky style - I really like the look of that idw verison ) to re-use for the next decade.

They get so much mileage out of them, it just makes business sense to make a nice updated version. But they have to know consumers (in general) are not going to put up with them using the cheap leader mold for the next 10 years (about how long the classics mold lasted)

I don't think they'll go any father than Skywarp with the leader mold. While it's easy to keep painting it, the leader molds don't sell as well as the smaller ones.

Yeah, I figured, they probably figured they'd get about as much backlash for not doing the trio as they would for doing it, so may as well make more money off of it. Don't get me wrong, the starscream one looks kinda nice with the crown covering up his doofy forehead; I just don't like them enough to get one instead of, say, the combaticon limbs

I also figured, this might be a buffer for the interim between the classics mold being retired, and a new seeker mold coming out; though, with the foc and legends seekers out already, I think they're pushing their quota for seekers-per-year

[william-james88]

That really is something that I don't get either. Voyager is perfect for the seekers, yet that is the one size class that is never used for them. We've gotten legends, deluxe, and leader, but no voyager, and that is the size that makes the most sense! Don't get me wrong I like all the size classes and will get the leader seekers, but I really believe hasbro is losing out on the right size class here

Well I really feel leader seekers were an easy thing to do once they got the Jetfire mold. A voyager seeker would need a new mold and all voyagers this year are combiners and all voyagers at the later half of next year will be headmasters. It seems to be a size class occupied by the main theme.

But yes, there seems to be an obvious gap in the seeker molds:


Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Thundercracker Gallery

And thats too bad because as you say, the voyager class is PERFECT for seekers:


Transformers Universe - Classics 2.0 Dirge Gallery

[King Kuuga]

Not to mention the Seekers are important enough to warrant their own mold. This is typical Hasbro pissing on the fans to earn a cheap buck.

Pissing on the fans? They went out of their way to re-sculpt the mold to create the seekers so fans and parents of younger children would have something cool to buy. Is it a marekting ploy? Of course, but so is literally everything they do. That's what makes them a business. As has been pointed out, right now the voyager and deluxe classes are being used to forward the gimmicks, so new Seekers would have to be either Legends or Leader sized, and we wound up with both. It's not a 100% original mold, but it's not a shameless straight redeco of Jetfire either. They redesigned it to capitalize on the mold the mold they paid for and they're getting their money's worth. They have to balance the interests of the fans with their own corporate interests, and I think the leader seeker mold is a good middle ground. It pleases enough people to be worthwhile and we'll get better seekers eventually.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

That really is something that I don't get either. Voyager is perfect for the seekers, yet that is the one size class that is never used for them. We've gotten legends, deluxe, and leader, but no voyager, and that is the size that makes the most sense! Don't get me wrong I like all the size classes and will get the leader seekers, but I really believe hasbro is losing out on the right size class here

Well I really feel leader seekers were an easy thing to do once they got the Jetfire mold. A voyager seeker would need a new mold and all voyagers this year are combiners and all voyagers at the later half of next year will be headmasters. It seems to be a size class occupied by the main theme.

But yes, there seems to be an obvious gap in the seeker molds:


Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Thundercracker Gallery

And thats too bad because as you say, the voyager class is PERFECT for seekers:


Transformers Universe - Classics 2.0 Dirge Gallery

The gimmicks going on right now are making that troubling, but these are gimmicks that I personally have really wanted and am glad to be getting

[william-james88]

Not to mention the Seekers are important enough to warrant their own mold. This is typical Hasbro pissing on the fans to earn a cheap buck.

Pissing on the fans? They went out of their way to re-sculpt the mold to create the seekers so fans and parents of younger children would have something cool to buy. Is it a marekting ploy? Of course, but so is literally everything they do. That's what makes them a business. As has been pointed out, right now the voyager and deluxe classes are being used to forward the gimmicks, so new Seekers would have to be either Legends or Leader sized, and we wound up with both. It's not a 100% original mold, but it's not a shameless straight redeco of Jetfire either. They redesigned it to capitalize on the mold the mold they paid for and they're getting their money's worth. They have to balance the interests of the fans with their own corporate interests, and I think the leader seeker mold is a good middle ground. It pleases enough people to be worthwhile and we'll get better seekers eventually.

Something I would like to add to this, it seems that for once Hasbro answered some people's wishes for repaints. I know Burn had indicated that when he recieved Jetfire, he wished the mold be used for seekers, and he got his wish. And when Thundercacker first appeared, people said they sure hoped they would get all three seekers from Hasbro, well here ou go! I personally do not care for retools like this (as I detailed in that very long post) but I do constantly see people asking for repaints and retools. Even now with combiner wars when you would think it's enough, I see people saying it would be great to have the stunticon team repainted like cybertronian dinobots (which is a terrible idea because a) more repaints and b) the dinobots only started existing on earth). Or, a better example, seeing people ask for Hotspot repainted as RID 2001 Prime and all sorts of stuff like that. Well, for once, with combiner wars including these leaders, Hasbro went all out with repaints, giving you everything you might have wanted. And it doesnt hurt anyone, it just gives more product on the shelf and more chances for younger fans to get to know classic characters without breaking the bank (shelf presence is really important for brand sustenance). However, this does show that people should be very conscious of what it is they ask for. These seekers are a result of using a mold for characters it was not originally made for (unlike the Asrotrain we are sure to see from Sentinel Prime), so I hope people remember this well the next time they see a mold that has an inkling of a similar alt mode to a character they like and demande a repaint/retool. Because you couls get exactly what you asked for, and wont be happy. We fans are sometimes out worst enemies.