Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

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Re: Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

Postby Wolfman Jake » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:49 am

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I think you mean "Junkions," and the point you were making was that they should technically be factionless, right? I was trying to figure out what "Junkticons" were and couldn't find anything, lol!

Well, some of the usual suspects are offering the Takara Tomy Generations Selects Volcanicus set, like TFSource and Kapow Toys, but nothing yet from Hasbro Pulse, mysteriously enough. Might Hasbro be passing on this one with the alleged Studio Series '86 Dinobots hitting next year?
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Re: Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

Postby Deadput » Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:02 am

Motto: "Let's kick the tires and light the fires!"
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blackeyedprime wrote:
Not the first or last time incorrect faction symbols have been used though (autobot symbols on Junkticons, shattered glass symbols on SG junkticons, Decepticon symbols on sharkticons shouldnt really be there even if it's okay for Gnaw, G1 symbols on G2 figures, Cyberverse Repugnus set, Merc symbol on what they call selects Bugbite) so he might as well be SG Rodimus.

Doesn't matter what the intention is, nothing about the Unicron Rodimus toy or how it's used in media thus far actually says it's shattered glass, we only presume as much due to the obvious reference to the character in the figure's design.

The overall point is that the listing should be removed from the Shattered Glass Rodimus TFwiki page, instead if anything it should be mentioned in the notes section for the character.
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Re: Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

Postby blackeyedprime » Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:08 am

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Wolfman Jake wrote:I think you mean "Junkions," and the point you were making was that they should technically be factionless, right? I was trying to figure out what "Junkticons" were and couldn't find anything, lol!

Well, some of the usual suspects are offering the Takara Tomy Generations Selects Volcanicus set, like TFSource and Kapow Toys, but nothing yet from Hasbro Pulse, mysteriously enough. Might Hasbro be passing on this one with the alleged Studio Series '86 Dinobots hitting next year?


lol I've had about fours hours sleep and too tired to make coffee let alone type Junkions. Yeagh factionless would be right for them, not sure how the shattered glass ones were depicted, but it makes sense to me that they should be factionless too.
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Re: Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

Postby Jeddostotle7 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:29 am

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Deadput wrote:
blackeyedprime wrote:
Not the first or last time incorrect faction symbols have been used though (autobot symbols on Junkticons, shattered glass symbols on SG junkticons, Decepticon symbols on sharkticons shouldnt really be there even if it's okay for Gnaw, G1 symbols on G2 figures, Cyberverse Repugnus set, Merc symbol on what they call selects Bugbite) so he might as well be SG Rodimus.

Doesn't matter what the intention is, nothing about the Unicron Rodimus toy or how it's used in media thus far actually says it's shattered glass, we only presume as much due to the obvious reference to the character in the figure's design.

The overall point is that the listing should be removed from the Shattered Glass Rodimus TFwiki page, instead if anything it should be mentioned in the notes section for the character.

Dude... if the figure was clearly designed as essentially a Shattered Glass figure, to the point of having had SG symbols in earlier stock pics, and the only thing really making them "not technically" be is the faction symbols and name... well, to borrow a saying:
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Re: Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

Postby Deadput » Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:25 am

Motto: "Let's kick the tires and light the fires!"
Weapon: Fusion Blaster Cannon
Jeddostotle7 wrote:Dude... if the figure was clearly designed as essentially a Shattered Glass figure, to the point of having had SG symbols in earlier stock pics, and the only thing really making them "not technically" be is the faction symbols and name... well, to borrow a saying:
"You can park the car outside, but everyone knows you drove there."

Dude? We are talking about accurately portraying something on the wiki based on official information rather then speculation.

It's a homage really until confirmed otherwise and if there is nothing that actually confirms him to be SG Rodimus or any media that has thus repurposed the toy as a form of the character then the listing should be removed from the SG Rodimus page until that happens.

Obviously it's intentionally designed to at least look like him, but that's not how Hasbro released the figure in the final product regardless of the early stock pics.
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Re: Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

Postby blackeyedprime » Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:39 am

Motto: "Me Grimlock, you slag."
Weapon: Particle Beam Cannon
Surely SG symbols in earlier stock pics ends the pros/cons. The toy premedia is SG after media it is an altered SG figure. That isn't a homage. No speculation is involved and the only repurposing is that of the media and switched symbols. I'ts not even apples/oranges, factually it is shattered glass with a homeage to the media.

*Though if it had had non shattered glass symbols before the earlier stock pics then it is the other way around and only a homage to shattered glass...there isnt a clear definition and then nothing can be prevented as fact...its a toy and a wiki, it doesnt even matter at the end of the day, no one expects wikis to be 100% accurate because that's not the nature of wikis.
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Re: Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

Postby Deadput » Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:03 am

Motto: "Let's kick the tires and light the fires!"
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blackeyedprime wrote:Surely SG symbols in earlier stock pics ends the pros/cons. The toy premedia is SG after media it is an altered SG figure. That isn't a homage. No speculation is involved and the only repurposing is that of the media and switched symbols. I'ts not even apples/oranges, factually it is shattered glass with a homeage to the media.

*Though if it had had non shattered glass symbols before the earlier stock pics then it is the other way around and only a homage to shattered glass...there isnt a clear definition and then nothing can be prevented as fact...its a toy and a wiki, it doesnt even matter at the end of the day, no one expects wikis to be 100% accurate because that's not the nature of wikis.


It's not what the toy was released as, there are no bios or anything on the packaging making him the Shattered Glass version, the symbols were likely changed to not confuse people (as in kids and casual fans) which makes him a Decepticon.

Come on man both the toy descriptions and the show that uses him is used as a corrupted Rodimus not a dimension hopping Evil Rodimus, that alone should end this debate since no comic has used the POTP toy as Shattered Glass Rodimus.


This is like ROTF Nightbeat, he was designed initially as Packrat but his name was changed to Nightbeat (and the deco slightly changed to have the door pattern) due to Hasbro not seeing the name as appealing to kids, so overall despite being designed as Packrat that's not who he was released as.
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Re: Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

Postby D-Maximal_Primal » Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:42 am

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I'm just excited for more Shattered Glass figures, I adore the SG part of the multiverse.

And for me, Rodimus Unicronus counts, and I have no issue with him counting on the wiki either. SG has used/repurposed toys released in other lines, and the wiki counts them in multiple areas. This one is counted as both a G1 Rodimus toy (as seen in PotP) and SG Rodimus (come on, the only thing that doesn't automatically make that toy him is he came out after SG fiction had completed and they added con symbols when he clearly had the :SG-BOTS: on his earlier photos).

It's not that hard. Rodimus unicronus is essentially our first SG mainline figure, and now this Prime and Ratchet come along. I would not mind a Goldbug, Megatron, and Starscream, I would feel pretty good about a small mainline SG shelf with those 3 present. Oh, and a new skeletal face Magnus, that would be awesome.
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Re: Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

Postby Gauntlet101010 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:21 am

On inappropriate faction symbols:

- Gnaw's Decepticon symbol always did annoy me, even as a kid. At one point I wanted to buy a bunch of Quintesson faction symbols for my Quintesson guys, but I never did.

- TBH, I wouldn't have minded it at all if every Junkion used that symbol I see is on the wiki.

- Rodimus Unicronus: SG or no SG? I guess ... technically it's not. In a VERY "Comic Book Guy" from the Simpsons sort of way. In the same way Megabolt Megatron isn't technically part of the Beast Machines universe.
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Re: Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

Postby Deadput » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:27 am

Motto: "Let's kick the tires and light the fires!"
Weapon: Fusion Blaster Cannon
D-Maximal_Primal wrote:I'm just excited for more Shattered Glass figures, I adore the SG part of the multiverse.

And for me, Rodimus Unicronus counts, and I have no issue with him counting on the wiki either. SG has used/repurposed toys released in other lines, and the wiki counts them in multiple areas. This one is counted as both a G1 Rodimus toy (as seen in PotP) and SG Rodimus (come on, the only thing that doesn't automatically make that toy him is he came out after SG fiction had completed and they added con symbols when he clearly had the :SG-BOTS: on his earlier photos).

It's not that hard. Rodimus unicronus is essentially our first SG mainline figure, and now this Prime and Ratchet come along. I would not mind a Goldbug, Megatron, and Starscream, I would feel pretty good about a small mainline SG shelf with those 3 present. Oh, and a new skeletal face Magnus, that would be awesome.


Difference is that SG repurposed those existing toys into the fiction, nothing of the sort happened with the POTP figure, it has not once been officially used as the Shattered Glass character, this technically only makes it a homage until it is used otherwise.

By all means it's obviously intended to be him and I ain't talking about people using him in a collection or what to consider him overall, but strictly speaking from a wiki-type standpoint and a Hasbro product description point of view it does not seem like Hasbro considers Rodimus Unicronus to be an official Shattered Glass figure.

Even the TF-wiki blurb in the figure's section doesn't really say anything about a connection to shattered glass beyond talking about the deco. (not even mentioning the face of the bigger form which isn't even an exact likeness to SG Rodimus anyways)

"The 2017 Power of the Primes subline of Generations includes "Rodimus Unicronus", a figure representing a Unicron-corrupted version of normalverse Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime. This figure takes its deco from the BotCon 2008 Rodimus figure."


I'm just agreeing with Will that the wiki article should be edited to reflect that, I've said my thoughts on the matter not going to continue since it's veering off Selects discussion.
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Deadput wrote:Actually I don't know my mother's name is Valerie so is Va'al actually my mother?

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Re: Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

Postby ZeroWolf » Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:27 am

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Deadput wrote:
D-Maximal_Primal wrote:I'm just excited for more Shattered Glass figures, I adore the SG part of the multiverse.

And for me, Rodimus Unicronus counts, and I have no issue with him counting on the wiki either. SG has used/repurposed toys released in other lines, and the wiki counts them in multiple areas. This one is counted as both a G1 Rodimus toy (as seen in PotP) and SG Rodimus (come on, the only thing that doesn't automatically make that toy him is he came out after SG fiction had completed and they added con symbols when he clearly had the :SG-BOTS: on his earlier photos).

It's not that hard. Rodimus unicronus is essentially our first SG mainline figure, and now this Prime and Ratchet come along. I would not mind a Goldbug, Megatron, and Starscream, I would feel pretty good about a small mainline SG shelf with those 3 present. Oh, and a new skeletal face Magnus, that would be awesome.


Difference is that SG repurposed those existing toys into the fiction, nothing of the sort happened with the POTP figure, it has not once been officially used as the Shattered Glass character, this technically only makes it a homage until it is used otherwise.

By all means it's obviously intended to be him and I ain't talking about people using him in a collection or what to consider him overall, but strictly speaking from a wiki-type standpoint and a Hasbro product description point of view it does not seem like Hasbro considers Rodimus Unicronus to be an official Shattered Glass figure.

Even the TF-wiki blurb in the figure's section doesn't really say anything about a connection to shattered glass beyond talking about the deco. (not even mentioning the face of the bigger form which isn't even an exact likeness to SG Rodimus anyways)

"The 2017 Power of the Primes subline of Generations includes "Rodimus Unicronus", a figure representing a Unicron-corrupted version of normalverse Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime. This figure takes its deco from the BotCon 2008 Rodimus figure."


I'm just agreeing with Will that the wiki article should be edited to reflect that, I've said my thoughts on the matter not going to continue since it's veering off Selects discussion.

Yeah but will was more poking at what Sabrblade said then actually caring what the wiki actually said ;)

Also with the discussion on faction symbols, Unicron. He's often packaged as a Decepticon, despite clearly not caring at Cybertronians and their insignificant war.
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Re: Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:51 am

Motto: "It's not done right if it's not done well."
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Just now made an edit to SG Rodimus's TFWiki page. Hopefully it'll stick and not get undone, but does that meet you're satisfactions, Will and Deadput?
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Re: Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

Postby Sowndwave76 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:40 pm

Motto: "They wanna play my emotions, but I'm like the ocean-- too calm to get upset by somebody's notion."
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I'm just disappointed that SG Prime is in a two pack. Well, I guess maybe it's more that I wish I liked the other figure in the 2-pack. Because that's not worth $50 to me.

Now I'm considering getting Sandstorm.
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Re: Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:47 pm

Motto: "It's not done right if it's not done well."
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Arguably, SG Ratchet ought to have been made from Grapple's mold.
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Re: Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

Postby Sowndwave76 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:49 pm

Motto: "They wanna play my emotions, but I'm like the ocean-- too calm to get upset by somebody's notion."
Weapon: Concussion Blaster Gun
Sabrblade wrote:Arguably, SG Ratchet ought to have been made from Grapple's mold.


With the right colors, I think one of the Datsun bros would've been dope.
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Re: Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:52 pm

Motto: "It's not done right if it's not done well."
Weapon: Saber Blade
Sowndwave76 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:Arguably, SG Ratchet ought to have been made from Grapple's mold.


With the right colors, I think one of the Datsun bros would've been dope.
Right, because a Datsun is totally the same thing as a crane truck, which is what SG Ratchet is.
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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

Postby Emerje » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:31 pm

Motto: "*Shrug*"
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I mean, if you really want to muddy the Hasbro Shattered Glass waters then Hasbro did release a Hero Mashers Heatwave back in 2014. Pretty sure the figure itself doesn't have faction symbols and he is a Shattered Glass character.

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Based on this guy, the heroic Decepticon.

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Re: Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:53 pm

Motto: "It's not done right if it's not done well."
Weapon: Saber Blade
That was an accident, one of many cases that have come to be known as "Archive Oops". It was supposed to be based on the Rescue Bot of the same name, hence the inclusion of the double-barreled Energize water cannon.

Also, check out the name on the packaging:

Image
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Re: Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

Postby Emerje » Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:09 pm

Motto: "*Shrug*"
Weapon: Saw-Edged Pincer
Sabrblade wrote:That was an accident, one of many cases that have come to be known as "Archive Oops". It was supposed to be based on the Rescue Bot of the same name, hence the inclusion of the double-barreled Energize water cannon.

Also, check out the name on the packaging:

Image

Yeah, I'm aware of that (like Titanium Cheetor), but factions on packaging is a pretty fluid thing. Just look at how many neutral, unaligned, or obscurely allied characters have been forced into factions purely for marketing sake. It may be the wrong Heatwave in the package, but it's still SG Heatwave.

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Re: Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:26 pm

Motto: "It's not done right if it's not done well."
Weapon: Saber Blade
"Autobot Heatwave" is the whole name. It's Trademarked, like how many Jazz, Hound, and Ratchet toys have needed to be named "Autobot Jazz", "Autobot Hound", and "Autobot Ratchet" on their packages.

Compare with the Hero Mashers Rodimus lacking any faction part of his likewise Trademarked name:

Image

And now with the onset of the Shroud, there is no longer necessarily only one version of that Heatwave. A multiverse of infinite possibility enables the potential for a heroic Autobot version of that Heatwave to exist, even while taking into account the mistake that was made.
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Re: Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

Postby Jeddostotle7 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:39 pm

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...Ok, if we're gonna do this petty "teeeechnically not actually SG Rodimus so doesn't deserve an entry in his Toy section" thing, can we at least do what Galaxy Upgrade Optimus did and have a little mini-entry in its toy section that links to the main article in G1 Optimus' toy section, instead of shoving it in the Notes?

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Re: Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:43 pm

Motto: "It's not done right if it's not done well."
Weapon: Saber Blade
Jeddostotle7 wrote:...Ok, if we're gonna do this petty "teeeechnically not actually SG Rodimus so doesn't deserve an entry in his Toy section" thing, can we at least do what Galaxy Upgrade Optimus did and have a little mini-entry in its toy section that links to the main article in G1 Optimus' toy section, instead of shoving it in the Notes?
That's how Rodimus Unicronus was before I shifted him to the Notes section.

And guys, I wasn't even the one who said the SG Optimus/Ratchet two-pack was the first Hasbro SG release in the first place. The email excerpt I quoted did. And from what I've seen, do people really care that much about the technicalities of what Pete Sinclair says in his RoboCon update emails?
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Re: Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

Postby Jeddostotle7 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:51 pm

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Sabrblade wrote:
Jeddostotle7 wrote:...Ok, if we're gonna do this petty "teeeechnically not actually SG Rodimus so doesn't deserve an entry in his Toy section" thing, can we at least do what Galaxy Upgrade Optimus did and have a little mini-entry in its toy section that links to the main article in G1 Optimus' toy section, instead of shoving it in the Notes?
That's how Rodimus Unicronus was before I shifted him to the Notes section.

And guys, I wasn't even the one who said the SG Optimus/Ratchet two-pack was the first Hasbro SG release in the first place. The email excerpt I quoted did. And from what I've seen, do people really care that much about the technicalities of what Pete Sinclair says in his RoboCon update emails?

Then why change it at all? If the technicality separating Rodimus Unicronus from "actually" being SG Rodimus is even smaller than the technicality separating Galaxy Upgrade Optimus from being UT Optimus, why do we have to take these measures for Rodimus and not for Optimus? I genuinely do not understand.
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Re: Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

Postby Emerje » Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:29 pm

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Sabrblade wrote:"Autobot Heatwave" is the whole name. It's Trademarked, like how many Jazz, Hound, and Ratchet toys have needed to be named "Autobot Jazz", "Autobot Hound", and "Autobot Ratchet" on their packages.

Compare with the Hero Mashers Rodimus lacking any faction part of his likewise Trademarked name:

Right, but that's what I mean by it being "fluid", it doesn't mean anything, it's purely for convenience. They couldn't even be bothered to add faction symbols to the figures or the boxes. He's only an Autobot because they had a trademark with "Autobot" attached to it. It's not like they were going to trademark "Decepticon Heatwave" just for a figure most people are going to forget.

As for Galaxy Upgrade Optimus Prime being a G1 figure, that's entirely in the name itself. If it were meant to be the UT character then he'd be "Galaxy Force Optimus Prime".

Image

The base figure doesn't look like UT Optimus Prime, that comes from the armor parts, you know, the upgrade. Without the armor he's just G1 OP with fancy windows.

Image

Plus fiction also says it's G1 Optimus. There's a much thicker line drawn between GU OP and GF OP than there is between Rodimus Unicronus and SG Rodimus Prime.

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Re: Transformers Generations SELECTS Series Discussion

Postby Wolfman Jake » Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:39 pm

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Emerje wrote:I mean, if you really want to muddy the Hasbro Shattered Glass waters then Hasbro did release a Hero Mashers Heatwave back in 2014. Pretty sure the figure itself doesn't have faction symbols and he is a Shattered Glass character.

Image

Based on this guy, the heroic Decepticon.

Image

Emerje


Did any of the Hero Masher toys have faction symbols on them? I think the point was interchangeability among any pieces in the line, so having a faction symbol anywhere on any piece would make it hard to create your own character or mashup of your imagination. What if you ended up with something that had three Autobot logos and two Decepticon ones?

Also, I don't understand the confusion over Rodimus Unicronus. It's a G1 Rodimus Prime corrupted by Unicron. This is supported by the bio printed on the box, by the related media featuring the toy, and by everything Hasbro has said about the toy. It happens to be colored like and have a new face modeled after (but not precisely copied from) that of Shattered Glass Rodimus. Like Tenacious D said, it's "only a tribute." The same goes for Galaxy Upgrade Optimus Prime. It's a new G1 Optimus Prime toy that's an homage to Cybertron Optimus Prime. Easy distinction. I'd say the line is "thinner" with that juxtaposition than with Rodimus Unicronus and Shattered Glass Rodimus, as we have no bios on the box for Galaxy Upgrade Optimus Prime, nor any media use of that design yet. The core Voyager Class robot inside is featured in the new IDW continuity, but I don't think the added armor pieces have yet. (Please correct me if I am wrong in that regard.)
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