The Energon Pub

News Credits: 12 · Thu Mar 24, 2022 5:51 pm

God, Blitzwing looks bad. The marginal improvements in robot mode aren't worth the horrendous vehicle modes and useless extra parts (I hasten to add I don't dislike the idea of extra parts with a Voyager as a Leader- Shockwave and ER Prime are amazing figures- but the execution in this case with the static clear hands that do nothing for the alt modes is a damn shame). LG Blitzwing is utterly safe in my display. Only way I'll be getting a new Blitzwing is if someone makes a better toy of the Animated version (AKA the superior version).

Thu Mar 24, 2022 5:54 pm

I've rewatched the chest transformation part of the video a few times and there's about 7mm to 1cm of space in the chest to slide the cockpit in more. It's not much space as the head's in there but there's some to work with. The head also could've somehow slid down into the cockpit some as the nosecone isn't taking up the whole space inside. Then the cockpit would've had more room to slide into the body of the tank. The chest plate could also have had a flip out piece similar to SS BB Wheeljack that could've covered some of that space in between the front tank treads above the faux cockpit. Or it could've had an extra hinge system around the collar area so that the chest plate could extend out more to fill out the space itself.

With some of those things it would've mitigated the "problem" quite a bit. It's not like there wasn't room in the budget either as those gauntlets are rather large and have quite a bit of paint on them.

Should it all have been done though? It depends. Yes it's mostly screen accurate however this is being released in Legacy and not Studio Series. It doesn't have to be so slavishly G1.

It's goofy looking in toy form regardless of it being accurate. Probably because the faux cockpit is designed to look so much like the real one whereas that same area on the character model is made to look quite a bit different. It looks like something else entirely on the character model. Almost like a battering ram or a missile bay or an escape pod or something. It's ambiguous enough looking to not look as goofy as this toy does.

I won't know for sure where I stand on it until I have it myself. It could be a TL Super Ginrai/TR Magnus Prime's feet situation where they don't look nearly as bad in person as they do in pictures. That and there's just so many upgrades that get made now that one might catch my interest to "fix" Legacy Blitzwing's "problems".

One thing I do know is that I would've wanted those robot mode wings to be able to spin around somehow so they could've been oriented properly in jet mode if someone wanted to deploy them. For some reason I always thought of Blitzwing having two sets of wings, one on top and one on bottom and this toy almost replicates my incorrect memory of Blitzwing from many, many years ago.

I'll still get this and enjoy it even though I have T30, TR and TL Blitzwings as well. I guess I'm glad I got TR Blitzwing when Ollie's had them for dirt cheap as I've seen several people complain about the price on him and I would also assume the TL version as well. I preordered the TL version when it first went up and originally skipped the TR version. I did the same for Octane as well. However I grabbed both Astrotrain from the start as they were such different colors.

News Credits: 101 · Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:26 pm

Good lord...

Why striving for CARTOON ACCURACY with a freaking GENERATIONS toy?
The beasts in Kingdom did it right by giving us a "cartoon accurate" bot mode but with a realistic altmode. Why not having Blitzwing having an accurate bot mode but with perfect altmodes? Without some mind-boggling EXTRA KIBBLE?

:HEADHURTS:

News Credits: 174 · Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:27 pm

-Kanrabat- wrote:Good lord...

Why striving for CARTOON ACCURACY with a freaking GENERATIONS toy?
The beasts in Kingdom did it right by giving us a "cartoon accurate" bot mode but with a realistic altmode. Why not having Blitzwing having an accurate bot mode but with perfect altmodes? Without some mind-boggling EXTRA KIBBLE?

Because Geewun?

News Credits: 101 · Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:36 pm

Hellscream9999 wrote:Because Geewun?

That no longer just "Geewun" that's Geeeergbrlblblbrgggrrrrll.... :BOOM:

Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:40 pm

Like I've said multiple times now, the faux-canopy ends up making him less GEEWUN, and as TR showed we could still get a GEEWUN Blitzwing without getting so messy. Whoever decided to pull a TR Mindwipe with the sodding wings should be demoted from designer to copyboy - and so should whoever signed off on it.

News Credits: 30 · Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:07 pm

I used to have the G1 Blitzwing figure - so yeah, I know that jet cockpit shape was jutting out in tank mode. But just because it was 'there' in the G1 figure doesn't mean they 'had' to replicate it for the Legacy figure. The toy had it because the designers back then were limited by the toy tech and engineering restrictions of that time. But times have changed. They could have fixed that cockpit issue - but they made a decision not to. Probably because they thought the G1 purists would complain. But we wound up complaining anyway. Guess you can't win for losin'....

News Credits: 4877 · Thu Mar 24, 2022 11:52 pm

In the immortal words of Sam Jackson, hold onto your buts. Prices everywhere are going up for a myriad of reasons and Hasbro is boosting the price of the Titan class figure in a significant way. Thanks to some new listings, we now know that the upcoming Legacy Cybertron Metroplex will be $189.99 USD. In other Legacy news, we now know there will be a Legacy Multipack released in the Buzzworthy Bumblebee line. The contents are yet to be confirmed. We also have other listings for some Evergreen toys and Transformers 7 products but those are in code names so we can't make much from them. These listings come from the Target Database and it is Voltrace who posted them on the TFW2005 boards.

Transformers MV7 Smash Changer Oscar – 087 16 6731 / 84794232 – $31.49
Transformers BB MV7 Hurricane – 087 16 6058 / 84794240 – $15.99
Transformers BB Evergreen DLX 3pk – 087 16 6047 / 84794229 – $62.99
Transformers BB Legacy Multipack – 087 16 0184 / 84794210 – $73.99
Transformers Gen Legacy EV Titan – 087 16 9227 / 84794227 – $189.99

News Credits: 3646 · Thu Mar 24, 2022 11:53 pm

Yah I feel like they just don't know what "we" want for some reason, which is a bit frustrating. Amalgamations of things like mixing Transformers Prime style and G1 style is not something I think any of us wanted. Want to do multiverse? Great. There's no reason why you need to change Prime Arcee's face so she all of a sudden has a G1 nose that she's never had before.

Homaging old school design flaws is also not something that I think any of us were clamoring for. I want to look at a modern day toy and say "wow, that's fantastic that today's designers with today's toy technology can overcome silly things like having Blitzwing's jet canopy blatantly showing in tank mode." I thought some of the half assed alt modes of triplechangers were charming when I was a kid but with today's technology I don't really find it charming on modern toys. I just don't understand what they're doing here. If I'm a "G1"-unner by some people's definition, own 8,000+ Transformers toys, own one of the largest Transformers fansites in the world, but for some reason don't want toys that include the flaws from yesteryear's toys, then who are they trying to appease? Am I really in the minority on this thought process?

At this point, I'm basically against anything G1 trying to be too slavish to the cartoon models because they're over engineered to the point where it's just a puzzle toy going from one animated robot mode to another animated alternate mode model that may or may not have the parts going in the right places and instead achieve the "look" by having faux pieces and instead having car parts where they should go in robot mode.

Masterpiece Sunstreaker might be the only one in recent years that I'm willing to give a pass to, but even then, I really like how Classics Universe Sunstreaker achieved it properly and G1 Sunstreaker is still a pretty solid figure after all of these years even if it's not 100% cartoon accurate. I think I'd rather have the actual windshield and roof of the car become his chest and lower abdomen instead of "faking" it.

News Credits: 4877 · Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:18 am

From all that I am reading Ryan, your opinion us majority rather than a minority. I am right there with you. I have found people that are fine with Blitzwing's tank being G1 to a fault but I found no one hoping that this is how it would look like.

News Credits: 1 · Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:20 am

Reading all these comments is really making me cement a decision just to pass on Blitz. Looking at the video didn't help despite the reviewer being blown away. And maybe slavish animation model accuracy can explain the nosecone in the front, but what about the thrusters in the back?

In triple changes one alt mode usually suffers, but here's it's both for some reason? And the same is true for Astrotrain. I know the bot mode is the primary focus, but the other modes matter too.

News Credits: 462 · Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:55 am

I look at Legacy Blitzwing and just continue to feel that Legends Blitzwing was plenty show-accurate and wasn't nearly as compromised as this Blitzwing. And if anyone preferred toy-accuracy instead, the Titans Return version offered that.

Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:08 am

@Gauntlet101010 Astrotrain's issues are nothing on this tho, and I don't think the locomotive mode suffers that much more than it did on the original. We've seen they can do better with Blitzwing, the idiotic TR Mindwipe-style handling of the jet wings was completely unnecessary to make him GEEWUN-but-with-full-length-feet. All they had to do was copy the TR transformation engineering and throw in ankle rockers. Boom. Done.

Instead we get this mess. In light of this, I think Blitzy should have gotten the Voyager slot and just been a TR reissue, while Armada Starscream got the leader slot (which would work better for size anyway).

Seibertron wrote:Yah I feel like they just don't know what "we" want for some reason, which is a bit frustrating. Amalgamations of things like mixing Transformers Prime style and G1 style is not something I think any of us wanted. Want to do multiverse? Great. There's no reason why you need to change Prime Arcee's face so she all of a sudden has a G1 nose that she's never had before.

Agreed. It's unneeded, as is converting characters to G1 style in general. Especially if they're UT characters who were thus already stylistically close to late-G1 stuff anyway, although at the same time that's less damaging than doing it to a Prime or Animated character.

I would suggest writing in to Hasbro via their website to express that sentiment to them. I know I'll be doing that.

Seibertron wrote:At this point, I'm basically against anything G1 trying to be too slavish to the cartoon models because they're over engineered to the point where it's just a puzzle toy going from one animated robot mode to another animated alternate mode model that may or may not have the parts going in the right places and instead achieve the "look" by having faux pieces and instead having car parts where they should go in robot mode.

Agreed... SS86 Hot Rod looks really nice in both modes, but the transformation witchcraft needed because of the faux-parts chest makes him less fun to transform than the Titans Return version - and makes certain parts have durability problems. I like neo-G1 toys to still feel like you're transforming the G1 character as best they can.

Seibertron wrote:Masterpiece Sunstreaker might be the only one in recent years that I'm willing to give a pass to, but even then, I really like how Classics Universe Sunstreaker achieved it properly and G1 Sunstreaker is still a pretty solid figure after all of these years even if it's not 100% cartoon accurate. I think I'd rather have the actual windshield and roof of the car become his chest and lower abdomen instead of "faking" it.

I disagree about Classics Sunstreaker achieving it "properly" since while he's got a real windshield chest instead of semi-real like the MP, the rest of him is backwards Sideswipe

I have to say that at least MP Sunstreaker was restrained from getting nearly as stupid as MP Hound by the need to keep Lamborghini happy.

TBH the only thing making the G1 toy cartoon inaccurate is that like every season 1 design his stretches and squashes the proportions into "Human in a robot costume" versions of themselves, and the kibble deletion to simplify drawing.

Regarding the Titan-class price hike being as big as it is... I'm not remotely surprised. There's so much more mass to Titans, and when making a new one more/bigger molds need to be cut to accommodate all the parts - especially with as big as some of said parts are on non-combiner Titans.

Out of the entire line, I'm looking forward to: Skids, Pointblank, Twincast, and Crankcase. That's it. More money for SS86, catch-up, Armada, and Cybertron I guess.

News Credits: 101 · Fri Mar 25, 2022 4:22 am

william-james88 wrote:From all that I am reading Ryan, your opinion us majority rather than a minority. I am right there with you. I have found people that are fine with Blitzwing's tank being G1 to a fault but I found no one hoping that this is how it would look like.

I throw my vote in as well.

Having Legacy leader (LEADER) Blitzwing using faux-parts to achieve the crappy imperfect look of the G1 original is baffling and an insult.

With the leader budget, there's no excuses to not be able to make both a perfect tank and a perfect jet.
If 3P would design a "Blitzwing" in current Generations scale that would sell for less than 100$ it would be quite a flex on Hasbro/Takara.

With that said, I can now forgive Siege Astrotrain for having imperfect vehicle modes, but he's at least his own thing and the imperfect vehicles are still cohesive without using fake parts for uglyfication like Blitzwing.

News Credits: 1 · Fri Mar 25, 2022 7:13 am

I'm just saying that the last two triple changers were both leaders and both suffered from compromised vehicles. BOTH vehicles. If they release Octane and he's a mess too that's three for three on the Decepticon side.

Meanwhile Springer was a voyager and he's perfect.

Maybe they're just trying to be too clever with too much emphasis placed on the bot mode.

I don't want to get too into Astro; I still remember the convo about him earlier. I'll just repeat that he's a train with another tiny train sticking out the front end. It's not the same nonsense as Blitz with a cockpit to emulate part of the animation model nobody remembers until now, but it's still nonsense. In both cases I think they sacrificed too much of the vehicle modes to give us an outstanding robot mode.

Fri Mar 25, 2022 8:13 am

In Astrotrain's case the additional train mode compromise (Although for me it just feels like an inversion of the G1 toy's outside frontmost wheels making him look like he's got a wider locomotive's front end grafted on) was more about the C.O.M.B.A.T.-mandated full-length feet with rockers - a function, in other words - than it was about the looks. And the compromise to his shuttle mode (where his whole upper chest has to fold over to close the distance and bring the fin into place, instead of just folding the fin out) feels like a knock-on effect of that (I do still wonder if they could have pulled off a 2-layer slide-extending chest instead, though).

With this Blitzwing, it's all about looks and being too clever by half to achieve not-really-noticeable gains in robot mode appearance. I'll say for the umpteenth time that going Titans Return Mindwipe with the wings - where the robot mode wings are fake and the real ones form the legs - was more damaging IMO. Dumb as the cockpit being so prominent in the tank mode is (especially with them having messed up the cartoon resemblance), I find it far less obnoxious than the cluttered stupid going on with the tank panels in jet mode (it's like if Astrotrain had wound up with his front train wheel panels hanging off the shuttle wings, only a worse).

Part of the reason Springer was perfect is because his alien altmodes that share components make things easy, although not forcing the animation model's rounded chest definitely helped.

News Credits: 10 · Fri Mar 25, 2022 8:17 am

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I don't want to get too into Astro; I still remember the convo about him earlier. I'll just repeat that he's a train with another tiny train sticking out the front end. It's not the same nonsense as Blitz with a cockpit to emulate part of the animation model nobody remembers until now, but it's still nonsense. In both cases I think they sacrificed too much of the vehicle modes to give us an outstanding robot mode.

I don't know about you, but I display my Transformers in robot mode. Transformation is a bonus. And, no, that doesn't mean 'go collect R.E.D. figures', I kind of hate them even as desk statues. I want my figures to transform, but I don't prioritize alt-modes. I'm not saying that gives Hasbro a pass on shoddy alt-modes, but that I'm willing to accept compromises where compromises of some sort have to be made. With Triple Changers not named Springer, there's probably always going to be some kind of compromise.

As far as 'toon accurate', they've been going in this direction for years now, and we're back to the Masterpiece complaints. I've always been +/- on strict cartoon accuracy, but I have to admit, if a toy is indeed that I certaintly plunk down the cash on that over something that isn't (looking at MP-44 (I don't care what anyone says, he's awesome) BB Kup and Cliffjumper). Part of it I'm sure is getting hit in the feels from my favorite cartoon of all time - sentimentality.

Question: While Blitzwing is coming in Legacy, at some point wasn't he rumored at least for Studio Series 86 (not that it makes that much of a difference to me)?

News Credits: 1 · Fri Mar 25, 2022 8:35 am

Let's not get hung up on compromises to a toy 30 years old. The outer wheels on the G1 aren't great, but it's also a different product at a different price point for a different time.

@sol magnus - Focusing on bot mode makes sense, but there's a limit. The alt mode matters too; they're Transformers. Sacrificing just about everything for the bot mode doesn't make sense, even if that's how everyone displays their stuff.

Blitz is just a mess in both alt modes. Astro is a mess in both alt modes. In bot mode both look great to me. In either case I just can't say it's justified.

Staying on the topic of Blitz, I never got the Titans Returns version. Just not better enough. Looking at it now the tank mode loses badly there too. How can the G1 toy strike the best balance of all three modes?

Fri Mar 25, 2022 8:58 am

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Let's not get hung up on compromises to a toy 30 years old. The outer wheels on the G1 aren't great, but it's also a different product at a different price point for a different time.

Fine. But for me, the SIEGE version's narrowing feels like it's just an inversion of that widening, and so doesn't bug me as much.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Blitz is just a mess in both alt modes. Astro is a mess in both alt modes. In bot mode both look great to me. In either case I just can't say it's justified.

No, only Blitzwing is a mess in his altmodes. Astrotrain has minor hiccups in both altmodes. And again, his compromises were for the sake of a function thing - full-length feet with ankle rockers - rather than Blitzwing's screwing things up purely for minuscule (and thus worthless) gains in looks by having fake robot-mode jet wings.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Staying on the topic of Blitz, I never got the Titans Returns version. Just not better enough. Looking at it now the tank mode loses badly there too. How can the G1 toy strike the best balance of all three modes?

Because straight-telescoping legs and because it's a brick without real feet, that's how. Also, I'd say the TR tank mode only looks slightly worse than G1 (note how the cockpit does not stick out past the treads, and also isn't floating there on its own with no surrounding hull - unlike what's seen on the Legacy mess and the animation model).
Although the tank mode could definitely have been improved by the wings folding up to cover the jet mode bits instead folding down as mismatched-looking armor (oh hey, add that to the list of things the Legacy joke should have done instead of pulling a TR Mindwipe for no good reason).

...The Deluxes are allegedly showing up at US retail, right? Hopefully someone here gets their hands on one and starts posting pics so we have something else to talk about.

Fri Mar 25, 2022 9:03 am

Seibertron wrote:Homaging old school design flaws is also not something that I think any of us were clamoring for. I want to look at a modern day toy and say "wow, that's fantastic that today's designers with today's toy technology can overcome silly things like having Blitzwing's jet canopy blatantly showing in tank mode." I thought some of the half assed alt modes of triplechangers were charming when I was a kid but with today's technology I don't really find it charming on modern toys.

The tricky thing is that, I think at least, the janky alt modes can still be charming, Snapdragon is a good example of this imo. It’s just that not all of them are. The nose cone on Blitzwing is very much not one of those things, though, and if it had to be incorporated it needed to be a far more subtle hint rather than going out of its way to replicate the original design flaw. It doesn’t help that Blitzwing’s jets are jutting out the back of the other side, or that his jet mode in general is already so….”stylized” by its very nature, meaning you don’t get any alt mode that looks that incredible.

At this point, I'm basically against anything G1 trying to be too slavish to the cartoon models because they're over engineered to the point where it's just a puzzle toy going from one animated robot mode to another animated alternate mode model that may or may not have the parts going in the right places and instead achieve the "look" by having faux pieces and instead having car parts where they should go in robot mode.

This is a really interesting point, particularly the “puzzle toy” bit. I don’t personally care about faux parts, but I think you’re right about the slavishness being a problem and creating overly complex figures. I adore the cartoon models, and some of the figures I’ve absolutely loved, but there’s frequently little joy in transforming them. The designs are often so over engineered and complicated in the name of producing an accurate figure that they become fiddly, and often have steps where you’re just trying to line everything up so it all clicks together.

I’ve found I actually have loved a lot of the figures I’ve loved most are the simpler ones that might make some compromises here and there but still manage to incorporate some fun tricks and look great . Tigatron is a blast to play around with, for example. Really the Beast Wars figures in general(with an exception here or there) nail the sweet spot of FEELING show accurate without being either overly complicated or so obsessed with accuracy that we get of the oddities of 90s-era toy engineering or CGI modeling replicated(like the weird textures you often see replicated on Masterpiece versions).

Give me more of that, please. Especially if it means we get Fuzors and Transmetals, lol

News Credits: 56 · Fri Mar 25, 2022 9:09 am

Honestly, I was never going to get Legacy Blitzwing because as a character, he really doesn't fit in my wheelhouse of collecting, despite somehow having the original. (Honestly I don't remember how I got Blitzwing I know I had it, but nobody I recall ever bought it for me)

The toy to me dosen't look that bad. Opinions will always vary. It seems the majority are negative on this toy, and that's fine, so be it. I just hope those that feel as such remember the next time I express my dissenting opinions on a toy, or show, and then go to great lengths tell me I'm wrong, or to stop being so negative, or that I'm expecting too much.

News Credits: 1 · Fri Mar 25, 2022 9:11 am

I get that you like Siege Astrotrain. You have to get that I find both of his alt modes severely compromised.

In Blitz's case the front of the tank is comparable to G1, but the back is much worse. And the G1 cartoon model didn't have real feet either (just the thrusters pointed out a bit). Don't act like there aren't alternatives to telescoping legs. I just don't buy that this is the best design possible here. They got too clever. I think they could have achieved a better result by, ironically, sticking to the G1 design.

Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:01 am

I guess I am one of the minority that really doesn't mind how Legacy Blitzwing looks and I genuinely prefer how he looks over the Titans Return version...
and I guess I'm the minority over not caring about the "Mindwipe legs" at all? I WILL agree that I do like the TR version's backpack but for me it's really neither-nor. Maybe I'll have to actually handle the figure in person to get a more solid opinion - I have the TR version and I wanna make a comparison, but to me I really do love how the 'bot mode of the Legacy version looks over the TR version (the arms look less of a mess and he has a proper Blitzy tum rather than a recoloured Megs one), and I enjoy the big shoulder armour stacks. The vehicle modes look fine to me but I can understand people preferring the TR version's modes, albeit I guess we're trading wings draped over the sides with front thrusters to a cockpit hull with butt thrusters for the tank mode - and trading tread flaps underneath instead of a whole turret for the jet.

But hey, ankle tilts and wrist swivels!

News Credits: 14 · Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:29 am

I'm still a bit shocked about Blitzwing.

I think there's a chance that jet mode is mistransformed somehow.

He always had thick wings, even in the cartoon, and I think that's what this toy tries to replicate but PvP managed to muck them up. Those fake wings from the robot mode I think become the bottom part of the wing in jet mode.

I'm harboring a tiny bit of hope yet for it.

Beyond that, that robot mode is well Blitzwing as he appears in the cartoon, and the Tank mode is fine. Yes the nosecone protrudes a bit, but it is what its supposed to be.

News Credits: 462 · Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:30 am

At the end of the day, Blitzwing is just that guy who randomly turned against the Decepticons in "Five Faces of Darkness" because Hasbro wanted it to be someone whose toy was still for sale in 1986, when the one originally intended for that role was Shockwave.