Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

william-james88 wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Ironically the hands are my favourite part of this though their inclusion is a head scratcher.

Incidentally, do we know of all the leader class figures for Legacy now?

Yes, but not all have been revealed. Still missing TM2 Megatron.

Ah yes, completely forgot about him

Shockwave looks neat. Since my CW one will remain Bruticus' gun, this one will do to go with the other tiny trouble makers

I'm really surprised at how blue Shockwave is... And not a fan.
The SS figure has the color I would've preferred seeing for this Legacy version.
And so much greebling...
I'm now on the fence about this figure, and leaning towards passing.

Sowndwave76 wrote:I'm really surprised at how blue Shockwave is... And not a fan.
The SS figure has the color I would've preferred seeing for this Legacy version.
And so much greebling...
I'm now on the fence about this figure, and leaning towards passing.

Purple never photographs well, I'd wait to see it in hand before jumping to any conclusions.

o.supreme wrote:

DeathReviews wrote:As much as I dissed Kickback, Legacy Ransack somehow looks better. Maybe it's the new head sculpt, or the blaring yellow... But am I going to buy a 4-pack just to get that one figure? Fat chance. Especially if it's more repaints that I don't like.

Yeah I'm not sure where Hasbros logic is. I know they want to play into the whole "multiverse" angle but having one obvious stand out character in these sets ( Previously Fangry) and now, Ransack, seems odd.

Kids won't care, and parents wanting to get a " battle in a box" won't care either, but most fans who obviously want the one one toy made with them in mind will pass,

These should have been sold as Selects. Packs of multiple characters do much better when there is a more united theme than " 4 randos from across dimensions* . When Target asked for a multipacks set they probably were thinking of some sort of unified team, or theme at least.

Scott "answered" your question on this, but I don't feel he went into depth enough. It was a very bland blanket, "they don't care about you, let's just move product" answer. I would at least expect part of the reason to be that Hasbro knowingly puts a character that will make the boxset more attractive to get that 30% extra in sales from collectors, as opposed to just ignoring a set if the one that was most coveted could be bought online as an exclusve. Or that the rest of boxset helps offset the cost of the new tooling.

william-james88 wrote:

o.supreme wrote:

DeathReviews wrote:As much as I dissed Kickback, Legacy Ransack somehow looks better. Maybe it's the new head sculpt, or the blaring yellow... But am I going to buy a 4-pack just to get that one figure? Fat chance. Especially if it's more repaints that I don't like.

Yeah I'm not sure where Hasbros logic is. I know they want to play into the whole "multiverse" angle but having one obvious stand out character in these sets ( Previously Fangry) and now, Ransack, seems odd.

Kids won't care, and parents wanting to get a " battle in a box" won't care either, but most fans who obviously want the one one toy made with them in mind will pass,

These should have been sold as Selects. Packs of multiple characters do much better when there is a more united theme than " 4 randos from across dimensions* . When Target asked for a multipacks set they probably were thinking of some sort of unified team, or theme at least.

Scott "answered" your question on this, but I don't feel he went into depth enough. It was a very bland blanket, "they don't care about you, let's just move product" answer. I would at least expect part of the reason to be that Hasbro knowingly puts a character that will make the boxset more attractive to get that 30% extra in sales from collectors, as opposed to just ignoring a set if the one that was most coveted could be bought online as an exclusve. Or that the rest of boxset helps offset the cost of the new tooling.

Perhaps there's an article to be made here, assuming you never made one when the last set came out

william-james88 wrote:Scott "answered" your question on this, but I don't feel he went into depth enough. It was a very bland blanket, "they don't care about you, let's just move product" answer. I would at least expect part of the reason to be that Hasbro knowingly puts a character that will make the boxset more attractive to get that 30% extra in sales from collectors, as opposed to just ignoring a set if the one that was most coveted could be bought online as an exclusve. Or that the rest of boxset helps offset the cost of the new tooling.

Yeah, I agree. I addressed that in the Youtube comments. Scott knows his stuff about some parts of the toy industry, but I underestimated his lack of knowledge about the Transformers brand in general. I wanted to chat with him a bit about it before he published the video, but wasn't going to pay $150 an hour for his time..yeesh... I've reached out other Youtubers that treat you as friends and enjoy video chatting on occasion, rather than clients. Still, there were a couple humorous bits. Who knew fan art of Fangry flipping the bird existed? I wonder if that was in response to the Buzzworthy pack from last year? .

Sowndwave76 wrote:I’m still excited for Blitzwing.
He’s right up there towards the top of my most wanted list.
The bot mode is really well done, & is enough for me. The jet mode is obvsly a letdown, but I’m good with the tank.

So am I. No amount of 'he has issues' matter to me until I have in hand, at which point the rubber either hits the road or it doesn't. If it doesn't the robot mode is solid, which is how I display my figures.

That's actually a good thing for consumers, at least several years ago because it meant sales on overstock.
Unfortunately it's a bad thing for retailers because Hasbro already made their Money by selling to them thus items going to clearance doesn't affect their bottom line so of course their only concern it move product.

Problem now is that physical retail is fading out and now must rely on online retailers or Pulse which means that unsold burden is passed on on to them and those places don't have clearance sales as often as old school retailers. And ultimately there will be a few of them that may have to fold due to having buy too much from Hasbro and not selling enough at full price to cover their overhead.

I totally get repaints are great for Hasbro but too many can damage the line's overall health in this new paradigm of online only ordering. Not immediately but eventually.

Till-all-R1 wrote:That's actually a good thing for consumers, at least several years ago because it meant sales on overstock.
Unfortunately it's a bad thing for retailers because Hasbro already made their Money by selling to them thus items going to clearance doesn't affect their bottom line so of course their only concern it move product.

Problem now is that physical retail is fading out and now must rely on online retailers or Pulse which means that unsold burden is passed on on to them and those places don't have clearance sales as often as old school retailers. And ultimately there will be a few of them that may have to fold due to having buy too much from Hasbro and not selling enough at full price to cover their overhead.

I totally get repaints are great for Hasbro but too many can damage the line's overall health in this new paradigm of online only ordering. Not immediately but eventually.

It's difficult because so much of Transformers is built on repaints effectively.

Till-all-R1 wrote:That's actually a good thing for consumers, at least several years ago because it meant sales on overstock.
Unfortunately it's a bad thing for retailers because Hasbro already made their Money by selling to them thus items going to clearance doesn't affect their bottom line so of course their only concern it move product.

Problem now is that physical retail is fading out and now must rely on online retailers or Pulse which means that unsold burden is passed on on to them and those places don't have clearance sales as often as old school retailers. And ultimately there will be a few of them that may have to fold due to having buy too much from Hasbro and not selling enough at full price to cover their overhead.

I totally get repaints are great for Hasbro but too many can damage the line's overall health in this new paradigm of online only ordering. Not immediately but eventually.

I think it's the opposite. The Generations Selects line us built around providing fans repaints that they would like, being sold only through fan channels. And sales of repaints to fans are just gravy for Hasbro. Also, unless I am mistaken, it's fans who want these repaints, not Hasbro pushing them on us.

o.supreme wrote:

william-james88 wrote:Scott "answered" your question on this, but I don't feel he went into depth enough. It was a very bland blanket, "they don't care about you, let's just move product" answer. I would at least expect part of the reason to be that Hasbro knowingly puts a character that will make the boxset more attractive to get that 30% extra in sales from collectors, as opposed to just ignoring a set if the one that was most coveted could be bought online as an exclusve. Or that the rest of boxset helps offset the cost of the new tooling.

Yeah, I agree. I addressed that in the Youtube comments. Scott knows his stuff about some parts of the toy industry, but I underestimated his lack of knowledge about the Transformers brand in general.

Honestly, Ryan (site owner) and I (through him) know more about the transformers toy business than Scott. Through the years of operating this site and speaking directly with Hasbro, we can make better sense of the business. So remember, when I mention something to you or offer an explanation, it may be coming from an insider perspective.
And now we have the designers talking business directly to us as well, which is pretty cool. Like, for instance, we now know why the volkswagen bee was not in the worlds collide set, Walmart still has exclusivity on the mold. Maybe you could write on instagram to the designers directly if you have a specific question.

Anyways, even though Scott seems very dismissive of fans and adult collectors in general, I can tell you with 100% certainty that that is not the case with Hasbro. It's kind of interesting how it looks like you and I started these discussions at totally different ends, with me seemingly downplaying our importance in their business and you seeing the generations line as being fan driven. But we meet in the middle now. Of course, while it looks like I may have changed my stance, I don't think I did, I'm still facts first, but those facts do bring me to say that we are not as downplayed as Scott says. I mean, we talk of facts, he was throwing around at 20% figure, and we know that's not the case. It's 30% in general in terms of dollars. Which makes sense since pricier toys may have a higher percentage of sales to fans while the mass market will be for lower priced toys so it's way more parents and kids buying but less expensive stuff.

I guess the difference is that Scott sees us as something expendable while Hasbro does not. We are still just 30%, but you can bet your bottom dollar they want that 30%. It's a third of sales!

And @Zerowolf, I tend to believe that what I write is already generally known by fans. Also, I can't have anyone in the industry validate any claim I may make regardless of whether my info is from the industry or simply an educated guess. It's a fine line. I'll just mention it when we get more info on the upcoming 4 pack and give a series of reasons why it may exist the way it does.

william-james88 wrote:And @Zerowolf, I tend to believe that what I write is already generally known by fans. Also, I can't have anyone in the industry validate any claim I may make regardless of whether my info is from the industry or simply an educated guess. It's a fine line. I'll just mention it when we get more info on the upcoming 4 pack and give a series of reasons why it may exist the way it does.

that's all it'll hopefully need as we all know the discussion will round that way again, and the next time a set is released.

A lot of what Scott says comes from primarily working on a line made strictly for collectors and all the restrictions and tight budgets that came with it. Even when he was working on a retail DC Comic line with a cartoon backing it he talks about all the loopholes he had to go through to get obscure figures fans wanted into the line because Mattel put so little faith in adult collectors. Knowing that it isn't so surprising that he's picked up this talk of 20%. He also worked in the Hot Wheels department and worked at Jada on a few things, he's the one that got them into making metal figures. So I do believe he has a unique perspective, but I think some of it is dated and a little too Mattel centric.

Emerje

To whomever was asking about the Energon Weapons before, Mark Maher just dumped a whole lotta info about them.

I think I just figured out what the legacy energon monster is. This is really a long shot, but https://news.tfw2005.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/TFBW-17-5-009.jpg

RodimusPrimeUkraine1 wrote:I think I just figured out what the legacy energon monster is. This is really a long shot, but https://news.tfw2005.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/TFBW-17-5-009.jpg

You're not very familiar with Beast Wars, are ya.

Found blitzwing at a Walmart today. Other then that fluke at target months ago I think this is the first legit happening that wave two is coming out

Sabrblade wrote:

RodimusPrimeUkraine1 wrote:I think I just figured out what the legacy energon monster is. This is really a long shot, but https://news.tfw2005.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/TFBW-17-5-009.jpg

You're not very familiar with Beast Wars, are ya.

This might come as a shock to you, but not everyone knows everything about the franchise from 1984 to the present. Especially newer collectors.

Oof, that is not a great head sculpt on hauler here

Sabrblade wrote:

RodimusPrimeUkraine1 wrote:I think I just figured out what the legacy energon monster is. This is really a long shot, but https://news.tfw2005.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2022/06/TFBW-17-5-009.jpg

You're not very familiar with Beast Wars, are ya.

I know I'm not against them doing new core class versions of Insecticon or Rockbuster, perhaps in glowy clear plastic. Wont happen, but at least Rockbuster would have some easy repaints (heck, Razorclaw is already molded in clear plastic).

Emerje

Spoiler, you won't like the reason. But at least it's a reason. Now, more than ever before, Hasbro designers talk to fans directly, answering questions that they would have never answered before. Like what is up with those clear red giant hand accessories Blitzwing comes with. They weren't on the show, so what gives? Well, it turns out it's just a business decision designers were forced to integrate.

Mark Maher gives us a detailed post about the line wide gimmick that was greenlit for the Legacy line BEFORE the character selection. The way this specific toyline was designed, was that all characters would come with Energon fuelled weapons and kids (and fans) could make their own weapon. We have weapon designs from Emiliano Santalucia, showing how this line wide gimmick was first proposed and then greenlit. You can see the individual weapons along with the combinations. You'll notice a uniform colour scheme and extra painted detail, which does work for a line wide gimmick.

However, this was not set up to go with specific characters. So the mandate for designers was to incorporate this gimmick and those specific weapon designs. Mark Maher did a good job integrating what he could. For instance him pairing what would become Kickback's weapons was genius since they also designed the weapon to integrate with the beast mode to create and abdomen that would work for Ransack.

However, not all pairings were ideal. You'll see those hands and gauntlets in the design sheet, those had to go with a release. And the design team chose to pair that one with Blitzwing. They did find ways to integrate it into the tank mode for extra fire power. So that's the explanation, it was a mandate and they tried their best to integrate the weapons and design them in a way that worked best for particular characters. And Blitzwing got the gauntlets. Also, one would assume a large accessory like that also helped further give an idea of value for a leader class toy that is the size of a traditional voyager class toy, even though Hasbro did confirm that the classes are no longer about size.

Below are the original designs along with the full written post found on Instagram.

Energon consumption time!!! I really hope everyone is enjoying the portal ride of our Legacy toyline.Here is a lil insight on how some of these energon weapons came to be.

First image is just a showcase of the first 2 waves of Legacy weaponry you’ll collect if you grab core class, deluxe class, voyager class, and even leader class!

Then you will actually see the concept art Emiliano Santalucia drew up even before we had the rollout of characters planned for the year. I think this will provide great insight for all yall as alot of the planning for weapon combinations was to obviously utilize our 5mm peg across all scales but this was all sold in before character selects were figured out.

As I worked with Takara on some of the characters I ended up redesigning alot of the weapons in order to maintain their design aesthetic of their own iconic weaponry. I wanted to concentrate heavily on the character and let that guidance provide an opportunity for the style and color of the energon weaponry

Please be sure to share your rad energon weapon combinations, would love to get some more time to talk about some of the new energon featured in some of characters arsenals. Especially that smoked out death soul energon featured in Jhiaxus’s handheld blaster !

More soon, stay tuned, if we reach higher followers maybe I can start doing giveaways!!!!

They've gotta stop doing this, how many times has a gimmick just ruined a line, Hasbro should focus on just making sure the figures a a good representation of the characters for the price point.

Agent 53 wrote:They've gotta stop doing this, how many times has a gimmick just ruined a line, Hasbro should focus on just making sure the figures a a good representation of the characters for the price point.

Gimmicks sell well with kids though, look at the UT stuff

ZeroWolf wrote:

Agent 53 wrote:They've gotta stop doing this, how many times has a gimmick just ruined a line, Hasbro should focus on just making sure the figures a a good representation of the characters for the price point.

Gimmicks sell well with kids though, look at the UT stuff

Also this isn't really that bad of a gimmick? More weapons pretty much is just an extension of the C.O.M.B.A.T. system from WFC with an Energon flavor