The Energon Pub

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Mistaken_Table wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Mistaken_Table wrote:So we are all in agreement. If you like it, buy it. If you don't, don't buy it.

But I'm 100% sure the people still saying this set is a combiner are the ones who have already spent hundreds on KOs that work the same way.

Can't blame Hasbro, though. If there's 1 thing KO companies are good for, its highlighting what the more ravenous fans will whale for. That's how MP-44 happened. Just a mess of tiny hinges you finagled into the shape of a robot or a truck without any clever or intuitive engineering. If people paid 200-300 for a KO, then they'd pay 400-500 for the real deal that included a trailer.

Enjoy your shelves, be they Menasor or a Deformation Captain that looks exactly like Menasor but legally isn't. Wussy Hasbro won't even redo Magnaboss or Tripredicus...

Try not to confuse knock-off and third party. The first take an original Hasbro/Takara toy, then either do a straight copy, of remake it with minor or major modifications. The second create their own original molds from scratch inspired by Hasbro/Takara characters.

Everyone involved are in some symbiotic relationship, taking ideas from each others. Yes, even the official Hasbro / Takara get ideas from 3P originals.

And honestly, it's a good thing. It makes the brand grow.

Try not to confuse 3rd party and KO, actually. Examples of 3rd party are licensed products made by external companies like ThreeZero, Flame Toys, Furai and those Micro Machines Transformers from the mid-2000's.

KOs are figures made to fool the consumer into thinking they're buying the real thing. Just because you're buying the KOs on purpose doesn't make them any more justified of a purchase. You bought Deformation Hero Leader because he looks exactly like Optimus Prime. You even have to put a separately purchased faction logo on it so it looks more like the real thing on your shelf.

In over 10 years of Transformers collecting and as a member of this forum, it's the first time I ever saw someone calling an OFFICIAL and LICENSED product made by another company other than Hasbro a "Third Party" thing, plus in one fell swoop throw everything else under the "K.O" label, whenever they are OG designs or not.

You are either completely new to the collecting game, or you never really dabble in 3P collecting. Please explore this forum and create a thread to double-check your notions over THERE. You might be surprised.

Do so before we further get off topic here.

I apologise for demeaning your KO collection. I get that people have views on collecting as varied as individuals' collections themselves.

Just bear in mind the term 3rd party was used because KO was bad for business, the same way 4th party is becoming a more and more common term for straight mold-lifts these days.

They're not for me, but I don't begrudge any collector who'll buy these. I just feel sorry for the people who one day look at their collections and realise there isn't a single Transformer in their transformers collection.

Finally, I don't need to read this whole site to know people have different justifications for buying all-sorts. I also know to take anything you post as a joke as I'm pretty sure you're the guy who posts articles about stolen figures and then tells everybody to not discuss them.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Mistaken_Table wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Mistaken_Table wrote:So we are all in agreement. If you like it, buy it. If you don't, don't buy it.

But I'm 100% sure the people still saying this set is a combiner are the ones who have already spent hundreds on KOs that work the same way.

Can't blame Hasbro, though. If there's 1 thing KO companies are good for, its highlighting what the more ravenous fans will whale for. That's how MP-44 happened. Just a mess of tiny hinges you finagled into the shape of a robot or a truck without any clever or intuitive engineering. If people paid 200-300 for a KO, then they'd pay 400-500 for the real deal that included a trailer.

Enjoy your shelves, be they Menasor or a Deformation Captain that looks exactly like Menasor but legally isn't. Wussy Hasbro won't even redo Magnaboss or Tripredicus...

Try not to confuse knock-off and third party. The first take an original Hasbro/Takara toy, then either do a straight copy, of remake it with minor or major modifications. The second create their own original molds from scratch inspired by Hasbro/Takara characters.

Everyone involved are in some symbiotic relationship, taking ideas from each others. Yes, even the official Hasbro / Takara get ideas from 3P originals.

And honestly, it's a good thing. It makes the brand grow.

Try not to confuse 3rd party and KO, actually. Examples of 3rd party are licensed products made by external companies like ThreeZero, Flame Toys, Furai and those Micro Machines Transformers from the mid-2000's.

KOs are figures made to fool the consumer into thinking they're buying the real thing. Just because you're buying the KOs on purpose doesn't make them any more justified of a purchase. You bought Deformation Hero Leader because he looks exactly like Optimus Prime. You even have to put a separately purchased faction logo on it so it looks more like the real thing on your shelf.

In over 10 years of Transformers collecting and as a member of this forum, it's the first time I ever saw someone calling an OFFICIAL and LICENSED product made by another company other than Hasbro a "Third Party" thing, plus in one fell swoop throw everything else under the "K.O" label, whenever they are OG designs or not.

You are either completely new to the collecting game, or you never really dabble in 3P collecting. Please explore this forum and create a thread to double-check your notions over THERE. You might be surprised.

Do so before we further get off topic here.

I don't agree with them either, but I don't think you need to be so snarky about it. They're just using the narrow technical definition as represented here:
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Third_party

If you've never landed on this page in ten years of fandom, that might say more about you than them.

Mistaken_Table wrote:I apologise for demeaning your KO collection.

One more immature stubborn guy closed like an oyster.

Moving on.

to be honest i like the sound of this sounds better than the CW version

By the way, I did paraphrase not only because I was combining more than 1 source saying similar things but also to further detach this article from the sources who do preffer to stay anonymous. I see that the last line got people stumped a bit so I reworked it to help show what the leakers are saying. It's the same thig I was saying before but hopefully more clear:

The result will be less clean/smooth than the G1 character model of Menasor even though the look is overall similar.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Mistaken_Table wrote:I apologise for demeaning your KO collection.

One more immature stubborn guy closed like an oyster.

Moving on.

Okay, okay, I'll shut up. I'm a Transformers collector. I collect Transformers. If being loyal to the brands that made my childhood and against those capitalising on their IPs for a quick buck makes me snarky and immature then so be it.

Back to the topic at hand, enjoy your Legacy/KO shelves.

Okay, shutting up now. See you when PvP gets some Legacy figures next week, Kanrabat

hmmm now I'm curious how Legacy Menasor will look next to CW Devastator and POTP Predaking

grimdragon2001 wrote:hmmm now I'm curious how Legacy Menasor will look next to CW Devastator and POTP Predaking

Small .

Seriously though. Devastator and Predaking are all made up of Voyagers. Even if Motor Master is CC, I doubt the combined mode will be much bigger than Siege Jetfire, which is the average height of most CW/UW/PotP Combiners

Ultra Markus wrote:to be honest i like the sound of this sounds better than the CW version

Same…
And I don’t think the CW version was horrible on any level.
As I’ve said before, considering Motormaster had to share a mold with OP, I thought Dragstrip was the weak link.
The combined form wasn’t great, but considering they used the same system as every other combiner minus Devastator, Menasor was alright.
As of right now I don’t ever see getting rid of my UW version (which does include a couple 3P add-on kits).

Of course not everyone will like it, but Hastak has my confidence that this new Menasor will be good.

As somebody that detests IP theft figures, whatever colorful label you want to stick on them, that's still a combiner. If it takes more than one figure to complete the final form, it's a combiner. Doesn't matter if it's a 75% complete like that thing shown before or like what's been leaked for Legacy Menasor and doesn't matter if it's structural. 75% isn't a finished figure, you can't play with that in any meaningful way and it certainly isn't display worthy (IMO) as is. What's important is the final product, not the base forms of the individual components or how they connect.

Emerje

With a description like that, I'm wondering how tall this Menasor will be. If the Commander size is basically the hollow frame of the combiner, would he end up around the height of a standard CW combiner, or something more along the line of CW Devastator, or maybe even somewhere in between like SS Devastator.

Ig89ninja wrote:With a description like that, I'm wondering how tall this Menasor will be. If the Commander size is basically the hollow frame of the combiner, would he end up around the height of a standard CW combiner, or something more along the line of CW Devastator, or maybe even somewhere in between like SS Devastator.

o.supreme wrote:

grimdragon2001 wrote:hmmm now I'm curious how Legacy Menasor will look next to CW Devastator and POTP Predaking

Small .

Seriously though. Devastator and Predaking are all made up of Voyagers. Even if Motor Master is CC, I doubt the combined mode will be much bigger than Siege Jetfire, which is the average height of most CW/UW/PotP Combiners

o.supreme wrote:

grimdragon2001 wrote:hmmm now I'm curious how Legacy Menasor will look next to CW Devastator and POTP Predaking

Small .

Seriously though. Devastator and Predaking are all made up of Voyagers. Even if Motor Master is CC, I doubt the combined mode will be much bigger than Siege Jetfire, which is the average height of most CW/UW/PotP Combiners

I'm sure Legacy Menasor will be the same overall size as the previous Combiner Wars. But contrary to the CW, the Legacy will have better overall proportions. Plus I do hope the joints will be solid this time around compared to the previous ragdoll.

Ig89ninja wrote:With a description like that, I'm wondering how tall this Menasor will be. If the Commander size is basically the hollow frame of the combiner, would he end up around the height of a standard CW combiner, or something more along the line of CW Devastator, or maybe even somewhere in between like SS Devastator.

Same size as CW, but with way more "meat" on it's bones.

On 3rd party:
All KOs are 3rd party. Not all 3rd party are KOs. Even if they infringe on copyright.

It's like selling your fan art, except way more expensive. You fan made poster of Optimus Prime isn't a KO, even if it's unofficial.

Saying KOs are 4th party is total BS, though.

On Mensor:
I'm glad they're doing it this way. If you want Scramble City you have Combiner Wars. If you want something more true to the animation (and a non crappy Motormaster) you'll have this. If the trailer is going to be a skeleton I think there may yet be hope for CW ports on Motormaster himself. Maybe the trailer bits will have CW attachments and MMM himself will be able to support CW limbs. Commander class seems like a great fit for MM since he'll get that trailer he was missing in CW. Unless you went out and bought that crappy 3P one (like I did).

I won’t be surprised if Legacy Menasor is a bit taller than the combiners from CW.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Commander class seems like a great fit for MM since he'll get that trailer he was missing in CW. Unless you went out and bought that crappy 3P one (like I did).

I was this close to get the old Fansproject "Menasor" when I saw it pop on eBay for "cheap" and after that, at my local geek store. But for the still 200$+ it went for, it just felt off. The other ones are just ultra expensive MP scales interpretations too so I ruled them all out. Glad I held off until Legacy Menasor was announced!

Now, if only they could reissue OFFICIALLY the G1 original. No way am I going to pay 250$+ for the vintage.

Sowndwave76 wrote:I won’t be surprised if Legacy Menasor is a bit taller than the combiners from CW.

Me neither. But I suspect it will be the same height as a CW equipped with full upgrade kits.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Commander class seems like a great fit for MM since he'll get that trailer he was missing in CW. Unless you went out and bought that crappy 3P one (like I did).

I was this close to get the old Fansproject "Menasor" when I saw it pop on eBay for "cheap" and after that, at my local geek store. But for the still 200$+ it went for, it just felt off. The other ones are just ultra expensive MP scales interpretations too so I ruled them all out. Glad I held off until Legacy Menasor was announced!

Now, if only they could reissue OFFICIALLY the G1 original. No way am I going to pay 250$+ for the vintage.

I have that one. He's pretty good, but the scale of the individual components is just all kinds of wrong. Plus none of them are fun.

I don't know why 3P went through a phase where they thought "overly complicated = great".

But that's not what I meant. I meant the 3P trailer for CW Menasor / Prime. It's crappy and is just a box on wheels. No base mode, no roller, no nothing. I have a few 3P trailers and that one's the worst. It's even worse than ER Prime's (that one turns into an incomplete base at least). However. MM needs a trailer. At least he does for me. So. I got it.

So... cartoon-accurate to an extent, but as a trade-off, it seems they limbs are not interchangeable?

Speaking of cartoon-accuracy, just what model and setup are they gonna follow? Not to mention, what way will Drag Strip be pointing?

Gauntlet101010 wrote:On Mensor:
I'm glad they're doing it this way. If you want Scramble City you have Combiner Wars. If you want something more true to the animation (and a non crappy Motormaster) you'll have this. If the trailer is going to be a skeleton I think there may yet be hope for CW ports on Motormaster himself. Maybe the trailer bits will have CW attachments and MMM himself will be able to support CW limbs. Commander class seems like a great fit for MM since he'll get that trailer he was missing in CW. Unless you went out and bought that crappy 3P one (like I did).

Yeah, that's an interesting idea on Motormaster. The rest of the Stunticons might not be Combiner Wars compatible at all, but that doesn't mean that Motormaster will follow suit. It could still be a viable option for people who just want a better Motormaster (who is perhaps most off model in CW) but are fine with the rest of the CW Stunticons. You can just upgrade what you have with Legacy Motormaster OR you can go all in with the Legacy Stunticons, but either way, you can have a complete Menasor.

Jelze Bunnycat wrote:Speaking of cartoon-accuracy, just what model and setup are they gonna follow? Not to mention, what way will Drag Strip be pointing?

Maybe you can orient him either way, depending on how he attaches to the skeletal arm stalks. By the way, I'm proud to have inspired the idea of "combiner meat."

Gauntlet101010 wrote:But that's not what I meant. I meant the 3P trailer for CW Menasor / Prime. It's crappy and is just a box on wheels. No base mode, no roller, no nothing.

Wow. I could understand a custom based on a trailer coming from another basic toy, but this... Well, not just HASTAK can be lazy.

Still very glad that Legacy Menasor is coming. Of all the CW combiners, Menasor was one of the two who desperately needed to be remade. The other one being Liokaizer of course.

Mistaken_Table wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Mistaken_Table wrote:So we are all in agreement. If you like it, buy it. If you don't, don't buy it.

But I'm 100% sure the people still saying this set is a combiner are the ones who have already spent hundreds on KOs that work the same way.

Can't blame Hasbro, though. If there's 1 thing KO companies are good for, its highlighting what the more ravenous fans will whale for. That's how MP-44 happened. Just a mess of tiny hinges you finagled into the shape of a robot or a truck without any clever or intuitive engineering. If people paid 200-300 for a KO, then they'd pay 400-500 for the real deal that included a trailer.

Enjoy your shelves, be they Menasor or a Deformation Captain that looks exactly like Menasor but legally isn't. Wussy Hasbro won't even redo Magnaboss or Tripredicus...

Try not to confuse knock-off and third party. The first take an original Hasbro/Takara toy, then either do a straight copy, of remake it with minor or major modifications. The second create their own original molds from scratch inspired by Hasbro/Takara characters.

Everyone involved are in some symbiotic relationship, taking ideas from each others. Yes, even the official Hasbro / Takara get ideas from 3P originals.

And honestly, it's a good thing. It makes the brand grow.

Try not to confuse 3rd party and KO, actually. Examples of 3rd party are licensed products made by external companies like ThreeZero, Flame Toys, Furai and those Micro Machines Transformers from the mid-2000's.

KOs are figures made to fool the consumer into thinking they're buying the real thing. Just because you're buying the KOs on purpose doesn't make them any more justified of a purchase. You bought Deformation Hero Leader because he looks exactly like Optimus Prime. You even have to put a separately purchased faction logo on it so it looks more like the real thing on your shelf.

But whilst you are at it avoid Hasbro or Takara produced KOs/unlicensed products, like official mp bumblebee infringing and straight knock offing the I heart NY etc etc. Can't really blame or avoid other companies for same thing hasbro/Takara has and does do themselves really hope the (not) lambo breakdown has a spoiler with the recent wfc omissions.

blackeyedprime wrote:But whilst you are at it avoid Hasbro or Takara produced KOs/unlicensed products, like official mp bumblebee infringing and straight knock offing the I heart NY etc etc. Can't really blame or avoid other companies for same thing hasbro/Takara has and does do themselves really hope the (not) lambo breakdown has a spoiler with the recent wfc omissions.

Don't try to argue with someone who deal in absolutes. No matter what you say, you'll always be "wrong".

I'm looking forward to this, but it has to be better than the Takara CW version with 3P add-ons for me to buy them.

The more I hear about how Menasor works, the more worried I get. I think everyone is hoping for something better than the Combiner Wars version. CW Menasor was floppy, poorly balanced, badly proportioned, and not a very accurate representation of G1 Menasor.

I suppose we'll need to wait and see exactly HOW the combiner mode all pegs together and functions. There's still some hope. If it all comes together rock solid, and very poseable, then it would be good. But hearing things like 'the arms just peg onto the sides', and 'the legs are hollow rectangles', and 'less clean/smooth than the G1 character model'? It gives cause for concern...

We're getting secondhand data from leaks, there's not nearly enough information to be excited or concerned. Things like stability and poseability can't be inferred from what people are saying, even if it's all accurate, and some of the rumors might not be. I'm optimistic enough that I pre-ordered Dragstrip, and I'm hopeful for something closer to the animation model than CW/UW, but beyond that I'm just waiting to see more.