The Energon Pub

There are a lot of problems here...

Coptur wrote:Ok i'm calling shenanigans regarding Wave 1 G1 vs Non-G1 for Legacy

Core
Skywarp - G1
Hot Rod - G1
Iguanus - G1

...Literally zero out selling here

Agreed.

Deluxe
Skids - G1
Dragstrip - G1
Kickback - G1
Arcee - Prime

ok this one might be true...Skids no been done in 100 years but he's not the most popular character and other prefer the previous version, Dragstrip ok folk might be sticking with their CW/UW version, Kickback again folks might be sticking with the previous version but he's not been done in the G1 style in deluxe before...
Arcee is a Prime fan favourite but hasn't been to everyone liking.

I think it's bollocks. Don't know what they're using for sales figures but Dragstrip that everyone is 'keeping their CW' versions you almost never see, then Kickback is the next least most available. After that, the Arcees and the Skids are starting to sit. And it's not limited to my area.

Voyager
Blaster & Eject - G1
Bulkhead - Prime

ok this one is pretty easy to figure out Blaster was already released exactly the same a few month earlier literally no reason for stores, fans or parents to buy the legacy version.
Bulkhead again pretty divisive but different enough.

It is easier to figure out, but not for the reason you say. There are three Voyagers in a case (unless it changed between WFC and Legacy), but when I see three Voyagers (which I can't say out of a fresh case because I haven't seen them pulled as yet) there are two Bulkheads and one Blaster. The Blasters go quickly, but hey - there's one. The Bulkheads are going, but I can walk in a store and expect to see one. Even still, they would be 'outselling' Blaster by default if going by SKU because they're 2 to 1.

Leader
Galvatron - G1
Laser Optimus Prime - G2

Galvatron was literally released not few months before i can't see many bothered about the little bits of paint that were removed for the legacy version. LOP 100% believable as this one of the most popular OPs in fandom.

A lot of people seem to be happy the paint was removed and the arms fixed on Kingdom. As hunt-y as I am, I've not seen Laser Optimus in a store yet. The main reason that doesn't upset me is because I'm not getting him. I've seen a Galvatron here and there, but I'm full up on Galvatrons. That's me, but people are definitely buying and shooting pictures of them having bought BOTH Galvatron and LAser Optimus. I'm sure there are double-dippers, some of whom will do the cruddy return the blind box Kingdom version in the Legacy package, but they are being bought. Neither are even starting to 'shelfwarm.'

You guys are a day behind TFW, they've debated "did non-G1 outsell G1" to death over there, let's not try to recreate that. It's all marketing talk, believe what you want, but it's not worth making a big deal about.

I think it's worth reminding everyone that anecdotal evidence is just that, and if someone says they have data that suggests otherwise, it doesn't invalidate what you've seen. I also think it's weird how much people are throwing around shelfwarming for products that have been out for, at most, weeks rather than months.

AcademyofDrX wrote:You guys are a day behind TFW, they've debated "did non-G1 outsell G1" to death over there, let's not try to recreate that. It's all marketing talk, believe what you want, but it's not worth making a big deal about.

I think it's worth reminding everyone that anecdotal evidence is just that, and if someone says they have data that suggests otherwise, it doesn't invalidate what you've seen. I also think it's weird how much people are throwing around shelfwarming for products that have been out for, at most, weeks rather than months.

I'm not on TFW.

Regardless, shelfwarming is the not best term for it. None of this stuff is just sitting there - it's too early for that, but you can start to see Bulkheads, Skidses and Arcees on return visits. I should caveat this with 'same as it is with every line every year.'

AcademyofDrX wrote:You guys are a day behind TFW, they've debated "did non-G1 outsell G1" to death over there, let's not try to recreate that. It's all marketing talk, believe what you want, but it's not worth making a big deal about.

To be fair, it was commented here early on, same day, even by myself, but the discussion was more civil. I made my case on both forums, but extreme championing on both sides by irrational individuals took over on TFW, whereas here it just faded after everyone made their point, until individuals to whom the new was "fresh" read the article and brought it up again.

I bolded a certain point because this is true. Hasbro will always play to the crowd, in this case a very small subset of Dedicated Transformers fans, who have an internet presence. This doesn't make the statement true or untrue, but seeing as Legacy has been out for a very short time, it is way to early to be making statements about "better" sales of one line vs another, or one type of toy vs another.

We can look back at WFC and see.... Leaders (especially Shockwave) were way over produced. Obviously the closure of TRU in the U.S. effected the end of TR, and PotP.

Titans like Omega Supreme and Scorponok were extremally popular as not only did they not have any discounts, but they BOTH got 2nd production runs. Hasbro even did a new run on CW Devastator (a 5 year old toy despite getting mixed reviews) The Ark is still readily available and in some cases, at a discount.

I'm sure Cybertron Metroplex had to be in the planning stages 2-3 years ago, but we wont know, until a good 6-12 months after its release if it was successful or not. I don't plan to get it, but I hope it does succeed as there are a couple more Titans I's like to see.

sol magnus wrote:I'm not on TFW.
Regardless, shelfwarming is the not best term for it.

Lucky you, if only I could go back in time and make different choices.

At any rate, my point is that picking apart the brand team's promotion of non-G1 characters, and trying to ascertain global sales trends based on what you see locally, is not a very productive or healthy conversation topic. It easily descends into a flamewar, and anyway, what we should really be talking about is: Where is Legacy / Generations Selects Flamewar?!

AcademyofDrX wrote: It easily descends into a flamewar, and anyway, what we should really be talking about is: Where is Legacy / Generations Selects Flamewar?!

That's a great point, because that's the character I want from that mold.

o.supreme wrote:I don't plan to get it,

Not even to add it to your big city display with its A.I.R. Lock compatibility?

Sabrblade wrote:

o.supreme wrote:I don't plan to get it,

Not even to add it to your big city display with its A.I.R. Lock compatibility?

That is definitely my weakness for sure. But no.... Having Black Zarak now definitely gives me a sense of completion that I didn't have before.

In fact, I'd dare say that if BZ came out last year, I probably would have skipped Kingdom Rodimus ( which also had AIRLOCK compatibility), and The Ark, which dosen't.

Unless I see Cybertron Metroplex for a crazy price like $100, I won't be getting it. Same with Menasor, even with the partial CW compatibility. Unless they offer a box set later ( which they did speculate was possible). But if by chance it is a G2 Menasor box set, that is an easy pass.

I have all the G2 combiner Wars box sets for completion, but they just stay in box, not on display. I don't need more of that.

o.supreme wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

o.supreme wrote:I don't plan to get it,

Not even to add it to your big city display with its A.I.R. Lock compatibility?

That is definitely my weakness for sure. But no.... Having Black Zarak now definitely gives me a sense of completion that I didn't have before.

That's too bad. A massive construction vehicle would be a very apropos thing to see in such a big city.

Sabrblade wrote:

o.supreme wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

o.supreme wrote:I don't plan to get it,

Not even to add it to your big city display with its A.I.R. Lock compatibility?

That is definitely my weakness for sure. But no.... Having Black Zarak now definitely gives me a sense of completion that I didn't have before.

That's too bad. A massive construction vehicle would be a very apropos thing to see in such a big city.

Which is part of the exact reason I plan to get him Granted, I also really like the design and want to support non-G1 Titans, but a good chunk of the reason is I wanna have Metroplex add to the "industrial" section of the Micromaster city/rocket base so Ironworks isn't too lonely

This new Titan looks incredibly cool. I didnt have very high hopes about it, but it turned out awesome. Though I have no plans to buy one, Im glad the UT fans get something great. Just could never get into UT with the exception of Armada. It wasnt bad and some of it I actually enjoyed, but the other two I couldnt get into. I have Omega Supreme and Scorponok as my Titans on each side and that will be it for me. Well I do have Predaking, but I dont consider him on the same "Titan" level as a combiner.

However, most importantly, I agree with what a few others have said; where is Flamewar? I have no need for the G1ed Prime Arcee, but would love me a Flamewar.

Also I just want to say again how super badass awesomely sweet Motormaster is.

The discussion has probably worn out now, but I'll still put my two cents in. There probably are a lot of different factors going into the claim that the non-G1 characters in Legacy are selling better than many of the G1 ones, and it may not be completely accurate, but it's a good sign if Hasbro themselves are admitting that non-G1 product is selling well, because it could incentivise them to go further with it.
I was disappointed when the whole Legacy product range leaked and it turned out that Multiverse characters only make up a small percentage of the range, despite the Multiversal crossover storyline. But if those toys really are selling well, it could mean the number of non-G1 characters will gradually increase as the storyline continues. I've asked this before, but has it been said how long Legacy is lasting? Is it planned to be a trilogy with an overarching story?

IIRC, during the fansite Q&A a similar question was asked, and it was said that legacy isn't a trilogy or part of a trilogy, just how they were branding things moving forward. Though they didn't say anything more specific, I got the impression that this is a Classics->Universe->Generations 'same idea, different name, with a slight tweak on the formula' rebranding, where the 'tweak' is applying the higher standards of articulation established by WFC and standardizing it moving forward.

Agreed, Legacy isn't part of a trilogy, but I expect whatever slight name change Hasbro comes up with next for Generations, the aesthetics should be mostly the same as Legacy.

AcademyofDrX wrote:You guys are a day behind TFW, they've debated "did non-G1 outsell G1" to death over there, let's not try to recreate that. It's all marketing talk, believe what you want, but it's not worth making a big deal about.

I think it's worth reminding everyone that anecdotal evidence is just that, and if someone says they have data that suggests otherwise, it doesn't invalidate what you've seen. I also think it's weird how much people are throwing around shelfwarming for products that have been out for, at most, weeks rather than months.

Thanks man. And yes, it isn't worth making a big deal about. The only toy specific data Hasbro can reliably access is their pulse sales/preorders, which is a tiny subset of bulk sales sent to retailers across the globe and no way of knowing how well characters do at that scale when the line isn't even out in big numbers yet. Also, the idea of G1 vs non G1 in this particular line makes no sense since non G1 characters like Arcee and Bulkhead are G1-ified.

All they said was some non G1 outsell some G1 which could also simply mean that in wave 1 Leader Optimus prime is outselling the Galvatron repack. I mean if it didn't that would make less sense.

I'm jut showing examples proving the futility of looking at that statement and considering it anything less than marketting talk, giving themselves a vague pat on the back.

Sentinel_Primal wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

o.supreme wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

o.supreme wrote:I don't plan to get it,

Not even to add it to your big city display with its A.I.R. Lock compatibility?

That is definitely my weakness for sure. But no.... Having Black Zarak now definitely gives me a sense of completion that I didn't have before.

That's too bad. A massive construction vehicle would be a very apropos thing to see in such a big city.

Which is part of the exact reason I plan to get him Granted, I also really like the design and want to support non-G1 Titans, but a good chunk of the reason is I wanna have Metroplex add to the "industrial" section of the Micromaster city/rocket base so Ironworks isn't too lonely

I'm also getting him for city building. But this time I will (hopefully) show some restraint and wait out the inevitable Black Friday sale instead of buying it at first chance. Hopefully.

So far so good, no pre-order in.

TF-fan kev777 wrote:I'm also getting him for city building. But this time I will (hopefully) show some restraint and wait out the inevitable Black Friday sale instead of buying it at first chance. Hopefully.

So far so good, no pre-order in.

So far, only ER Scorponok made itself rare because of the you-know-what circumstances. All other Titans went on sale sooner or later and were never rare.

There's high chances I'm getting that Metroplex, but only during the inevitable sale.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

TF-fan kev777 wrote:I'm also getting him for city building. But this time I will (hopefully) show some restraint and wait out the inevitable Black Friday sale instead of buying it at first chance. Hopefully.

So far so good, no pre-order in.

So far, only ER Scorponok made itself rare because of the you-know-what circumstances. All other Titans went on sale sooner or later and were never rare.

There's high chances I'm getting that Metroplex, but only during the inevitable sale.

I hadn't planned on getting this figure, especially in 2022. But a good sale in 2023 might have me changing my tune.

-Kanrabat- wrote:So far, only ER Scorponok made itself rare because of the you-know-what circumstances. All other Titans went on sale sooner or later and were never rare.

I don't think any Titans were "rare", all online retailers had them. However Omega Supreme and Scorponok never were offered at a discount, and BOTH had additional production runs. Same for CC Jetfire.

The Ark on the other hand....yeah that has been shown to be on sale in a few locations online.

o.supreme wrote:Agreed, Legacy isn't part of a trilogy, but I expect whatever slight name change Hasbro comes up with next for Generations, the aesthetics should be mostly the same as Legacy.

My guess is that it just stays as "Legacy" permanently like how Studio Series has stayed the same for 4 years

Autobot N wrote:

o.supreme wrote:Agreed, Legacy isn't part of a trilogy, but I expect whatever slight name change Hasbro comes up with next for Generations, the aesthetics should be mostly the same as Legacy.

My guess is that it just stays as "Legacy" permanently like how Studio Series has stayed the same for 4 years

"Permanently" is a long time.
https://youtu.be/_ZxgxBWuLKQ

o.supreme wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:So far, only ER Scorponok made itself rare because of the you-know-what circumstances. All other Titans went on sale sooner or later and were never rare.

I don't think any Titans were "rare", all online retailers had them. However Omega Supreme and Scorponok never were offered at a discount, and BOTH had additional production runs. Same for CC Jetfire.

The Ark on the other hand....yeah that has been shown to be on sale in a few locations online.

I got my Omega Supreme on sale. 25$CAN off out of the initial 250$CAN is not much, but it's something.

Autobot N wrote:

o.supreme wrote:Agreed, Legacy isn't part of a trilogy, but I expect whatever slight name change Hasbro comes up with next for Generations, the aesthetics should be mostly the same as Legacy.

My guess is that it just stays as "Legacy" permanently like how Studio Series has stayed the same for 4 years

The idea that started with PotP however was because if you keep any one thing around to long, retail chains tend to stop ordering later waves. So they wanted to keep things new every 12 months instead of every 18-24.

-Kanrabat- wrote:I got my Omega Supreme on sale. 25$CAN off out of the initial 250$CAN is not much, but it's something.

Consider yourself fortunate then, as you stated, it wasn't much of a discount (10%), and probably didn't last long either. I remember I was literally one of the last to get Siege Omega at standard price ($160 USD) with my tax return in Feb 2020. I think a LOT of fans did the same because he was immediately gone, and from about March 2020-late summer, there was much fan lament that 3rd party sellers weren't going below $200, and as high as $300 in some cases, until Hasbo came to the rescue in late summer and did another run on OS, Jetfire, and I think a couple other Siege toys that sold really well the previous year.

Then in January 2021, they did a 2nd run on ER Scorponok, and even brought back CW Devastator.

Because Jetfire was so hard to get (I still can't believe Walmarts stupidity to clearance that guy just because they didn't want it , after they already had ordered it). As was Skylynx, FOMO caused me to pay full price for Kingdom Rodimus, which as we've seen, has gone on sale several times.

I'm not doing that with Legacy. If Motormaster and Cyb'PLex sell well, then so be it, I am resolved not to get them. If there is a crazy discount of at least 50% on either one however, I may consider it.

I'd like a Botcon Knight Flareup to go along with that Flamewar. But just so we're all on the same page, you're all referring to Botcon Flamewar and not PRID Cyberverse Flamewar correct? Regardless, I want both Flamewar decos.

Grahf_ wrote:I'd like a Botcon Knight Flareup to go along with that Flamewar. But just so we're all on the same page, you're all referring to Botcon Flamewar and not PRID Cyberverse Flamewar correct? Regardless, I want both Flamewar decos.

I'm referring to Prime Legion Class Flamewar.