The Energon Pub

First-Aid wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:So for those who would rather read it here than follow the TFW link and scroll through multiple pages (and so I can get it all together & concise to send it to news), now we're up to having:
Legacy:
-Leader Dragon/TM2 Megatron
-Voyager Bulkhead
-Voyager Armada Starscream (UT IS BACK ON THE MENU)
-Voyager Blaster (has a separate Kingdom listing that was reported before, so repack)
-Voyager Inferno (presumably BW Inferno considering the leaks/rumors, but the listing doesn't specify)
-Deluxe Tarantulas
-Deluxe Skids
-Deluxe Dragstrip
-Deluxe Kickback
-Deluxe Silverstreak (different numbering than other Deluxes, likely an exclusive)
-Core Soundwave (Kingdom repack)
-Core Energon Monster (the presence of Armada Screamer strengthens my theory that this is some kind of Energon Terrorcon if it isn't something completely new like the Fossilizers)

Studio Series:
-Core 86 Ratchet
-Core 86 Rumble
-Core DotM Laserbeak
-Core TF7 Wheelie (???)
-Core Bumblebee movie Ravage

So, HasTak continues to, essentially, release the same characters they always do. Answer me the following question:

Since 2000, how many times have they released "new": G1 Skids (was in Generations, why a new release needed)?

That was 7 years ago. How often are they allowed to revisit a character?

G1 Bumblebee (a dead horse, to be sure)? G1 Silver/Bluestreak/Prowl/Smokescreen (at least 2 of the three WFC trilogy lines had these, not even looking back further)?

True. Probably just one more repaint to milk the mold not a new mod entirely.

G1 Soundwave (fifteen versions since 2000)? Kickback (once in FOC Generations line)?

Just a repack of existing core sound wave. small, not mainline.

G1 Ratchet?

Core again, not mainline, and may be a typo.

Blaster? Cassettes/minibots?

Blaster has only seen 2 repaints from a Soundwave mold in the last 20 years. A unique mold for him would be nice.

The studio series makes sense (though I'm convinced that Core Ratchet is a typo and it's really Ratbat); SS is a "completist" line. But this new one is a Legacy line and it's the same damned characters we've gotten over and over! Prime Arcee is awesome...guessing Bulkhead is the Prime version as well- excellent toys and, in both cases, new characters (Arcee was a name recycle and that's it...every thing about her was completely different). The Dragon Megatron...dramatically underrated ORIGINAL figure so hopefully they can do it more justice than they did the purple dinosaur Paneltron figure. Why are we getting another Armada Starscream when we just got one in Generations (hint: repaints are coming...)? But I'm really growing weary of the same damned thing over and over. On the upside I'm saving buttloads of money not buying these things, but it's just taking the FUN out of it! I remember the days of character leaks and "OMG what's the next new design going to be?" The little thrills from seeing them pull off something brand new, original. I MISS that. That was the beset part of this hobby...what are they going to do next? We've reached the point where WE ALREADY KNOW because nothing is new! For the love of bacon and pie, can somebody PLEASE grow a freaking imagination?

End of rant.

Three clarifications from Apollux:
1. The rumored Pretender homages are NOT what the Energon Monster is, the Energon Monster(s) are 2022's Fossilizer equivalent
2. The Inferno listing is in fact for a new BW Inferno (FOR THE GLORY OF THE ROYALTY!)
3. Core 86 Ratchet does not mean that a larger 86 Ratchet is deconfirmed

Overcracker wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:If I remember right, the current speculation is Prime Beast Hunters Optimus, since the leakers said "Prime Optimus/Bulkhead share a mold" and the Beast Hunters design is the only version of that character that could possibly make sense to share a mold with a Bulkhead.

But that makes even less sense. Prime Bulkhead looked nothing like Beast Hunters Prime. Prime Bulkead was a jeep SUV thing.


The Bulkhead that would kind of look like the Beasthunter's Prime would be Animated, but the robot mode would technically be wrong.

Its a really weird thing to try to do. Use a mold for different figures from different lines that would require extensive retooling anyway.

Oh I don't disagree that it's gonna be weird, the whole concept of "Optimus and Bulkhead as moldmates" is baffling to begin with. I'm just saying that if we have to accept that premise as the starting point, then of the two Prime Optimus designs, the absolute unit that is the BH design makes more sense to turn into a suitably beefy Bulkhead than Optimus' original Prime design which was basically his G1 proportions but stylized. Plus, after Siege Magnus used his RiD altmode, I think a Bulkhead using the Prime bot mode design and the Animated alt mode design isn't out of the question, especially due to those similarities you pointed out.

Nuclearxpotato wrote:

alekese wrote:Having skimmed through the tfw thread, the guy who claims to know the next titan seems to be strongly implying that evolution's titan is super mode armada prime, but won't confirm or deny until an actual listing is found. Looking forward to it if true.

Could you clarify on why you think that? I've been following JT's comments since the listings started dropping and I don't think he's said anything that'd imply Armada Prime specifically.

If anything, the general consensus seems to be that the hints indicate Cybertron Metroplex.

First-Aid wrote:So, HasTak continues to, essentially, release the same characters they always do. Answer me the following question:

Since 2000, how many times have they released "new": G1 Skids (was in Generations, why a new release needed)? G1 Bumblebee (a dead horse, to be sure)? G1 Silver/Bluestreak/Prowl/Smokescreen (at least 2 of the three WFC trilogy lines had these, not even looking back further)? G1 Soundwave (fifteen versions since 2000)? Kickback (once in FOC Generations line)? G1 Ratchet? Blaster? Cassettes/minibots?

The studio series makes sense (though I'm convinced that Core Ratchet is a typo and it's really Ratbat); SS is a "completist" line. But this new one is a Legacy line and it's the same damned characters we've gotten over and over! Prime Arcee is awesome...guessing Bulkhead is the Prime version as well- excellent toys and, in both cases, new characters (Arcee was a name recycle and that's it...every thing about her was completely different). The Dragon Megatron...dramatically underrated ORIGINAL figure so hopefully they can do it more justice than they did the purple dinosaur Paneltron figure. Why are we getting another Armada Starscream when we just got one in Generations (hint: repaints are coming...)? But I'm really growing weary of the same damned thing over and over. On the upside I'm saving buttloads of money not buying these things, but it's just taking the FUN out of it! I remember the days of character leaks and "OMG what's the next new design going to be?" The little thrills from seeing them pull off something brand new, original. I MISS that. That was the beset part of this hobby...what are they going to do next? We've reached the point where WE ALREADY KNOW because nothing is new! For the love of bacon and pie, can somebody PLEASE grow a freaking imagination?

End of rant.

1. Generations Skids was IDW based, not G1 based, they have never released an update of actual G1 Skids (and this clarification is coming from someone who thinks IDW Skids is infinitely better, I have no stake in a new Skids but I get why it's coming).
2. There's no Bumblebee on this list, not sure why you mentioned him.
3. The Silverstreak listing is that blue Bluestreak repaint we just got leaked images of, so it's not a repeat of any of the WFC Datsuns and is in fact the second-ever Hasbro release of that deco that isn't a Con-exclusive/old Subscription service figure.
4. Core Soundwave is literally just a repack because, surprise, Hasbro wants their popular characters on shelves because people buy them, I fail to see why to complain about this.
5. FoC Kickback is a very different design from G1 Kickback, G1 Kickback has never received an update bigger than a Legends Class figure
6. How many past Ratchet's were actually good? Also, the listing's a Core Class figure, it exists for different reasons than a larger Ratchet would just like Core Soundwave.
7. Blaster has received a single update that was actually a proper update of his original design, every other Blaster figure was a lazy Soundwave repaint and a number of them were exclusives anyway.
8. Everyone's complaints about the last Armada Starscream was that he was too small, he lacked a Minicon, and his swords were inaccurate, all things that a Voyager figure/budget should be able to rectify, and also using Armada Starscream helps Hasbro test if there's a market for more UT updates while also getting one of their popular characters on the shelves via the shared Starscream name.

I dont think I'd spend the same amount of money on motormaster as it was to get him (or G2 him) with his entire team but I'm tight like that XD

Nemesis Primal wrote:
1. Generations Skids was IDW based, not G1 based, they have never released an update of actual G1 Skids (and this clarification is coming from someone who thinks IDW Skids is infinitely better, I have no stake in a new Skids but I get why it's coming).
2. There's no Bumblebee on this list, not sure why you mentioned him.
3. The Silverstreak listing is that blue Bluestreak repaint we just got leaked images of, so it's not a repeat of any of the WFC Datsuns and is in fact the second-ever Hasbro release of that deco that isn't a Con-exclusive/old Subscription service figure.
4. Core Soundwave is literally just a repack because, surprise, Hasbro wants their popular characters on shelves because people buy them, I fail to see why to complain about this.
5. FoC Kickback is a very different design from G1 Kickback, G1 Kickback has never received an update bigger than a Legends Class figure
6. How many past Ratchet's were actually good? Also, the listing's a Core Class figure, it exists for different reasons than a larger Ratchet would just like Core Soundwave.
7. Blaster has received a single update that was actually a proper update of his original design, every other Blaster figure was a lazy Soundwave repaint and a number of them were exclusives anyway.
8. Everyone's complaints about the last Armada Starscream was that he was too small, he lacked a Minicon, and his swords were inaccurate, all things that a Voyager figure/budget should be able to rectify, and also using Armada Starscream helps Hasbro test if there's a market for more UT updates while also getting one of their popular characters on the shelves via the shared Starscream name.

You essentially just made my point, though. ALL of them HAVE HAD UPDATES. Many of them, repeated updates. It's the same characters. It's ALL the same. Monotonous. Unimaginative. Boring. Nothing to push the envelope (the Ark Titan is about the only exception). Are they not capable of creating new toys? New characters? New lines? Even Cyberverse is essentially G1 Redux for the umpteenth time. Yes, I realize there are great characters in G1. But if ya'll remember, they started recycling original characters at the end of the 80s (Action Masters! Pretenders! Same damn characters!), but what happened? If not for BW, Transformers would have stopped altogether more than likely. What did we get in BW? A full, new lineup of well-written, entertaining characters combined with a buttload of new toy technology. Every ten years or so, Hasbro reinvented the TF brand. Released in 1984. Beast Wars reinvigoration in 1996. Live action movieverse in 2007 (as much as a lot of fans don't like it, the Movieverse DID revive interest in the public). We're overdue...it's been 15 years. A shakeup is needed. What can Hasbro do if they let the engineers, designers, and creative team really cut loose rather than say "Let's continue to rehash the same characters over and over"? I'd like to see that, and I think we need it.

Arcee is also in the listings, which I don't see in the news post.

Edit: I see it being discussed earlier in the thread, but again, not in the news post.

Either way, Tarantulas, Dragon Megatron, and Inferno have me frothing at the mouth.

First-Aid wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:So for those who would rather read it here than follow the TFW link and scroll through multiple pages (and so I can get it all together & concise to send it to news), now we're up to having:
Legacy:
-Leader Dragon/TM2 Megatron
-Voyager Bulkhead
-Voyager Armada Starscream (UT IS BACK ON THE MENU)
-Voyager Blaster (has a separate Kingdom listing that was reported before, so repack)
-Voyager Inferno (presumably BW Inferno considering the leaks/rumors, but the listing doesn't specify)
-Deluxe Tarantulas
-Deluxe Skids
-Deluxe Dragstrip
-Deluxe Kickback
-Deluxe Silverstreak (different numbering than other Deluxes, likely an exclusive)
-Core Soundwave (Kingdom repack)
-Core Energon Monster (the presence of Armada Screamer strengthens my theory that this is some kind of Energon Terrorcon if it isn't something completely new like the Fossilizers)

Studio Series:
-Core 86 Ratchet
-Core 86 Rumble
-Core DotM Laserbeak
-Core TF7 Wheelie (???)
-Core Bumblebee movie Ravage

So, HasTak continues to, essentially, release the same characters they always do. Answer me the following question:

Since 2000, how many times have they released "new": G1 Skids (was in Generations, why a new release needed)? G1 Bumblebee (a dead horse, to be sure)? G1 Silver/Bluestreak/Prowl/Smokescreen (at least 2 of the three WFC trilogy lines had these, not even looking back further)? G1 Soundwave (fifteen versions since 2000)? Kickback (once in FOC Generations line)? G1 Ratchet? Blaster? Cassettes/minibots?

The studio series makes sense (though I'm convinced that Core Ratchet is a typo and it's really Ratbat); SS is a "completist" line. But this new one is a Legacy line and it's the same damned characters we've gotten over and over! Prime Arcee is awesome...guessing Bulkhead is the Prime version as well- excellent toys and, in both cases, new characters (Arcee was a name recycle and that's it...every thing about her was completely different). The Dragon Megatron...dramatically underrated ORIGINAL figure so hopefully they can do it more justice than they did the purple dinosaur Paneltron figure. Why are we getting another Armada Starscream when we just got one in Generations (hint: repaints are coming...)? But I'm really growing weary of the same damned thing over and over. On the upside I'm saving buttloads of money not buying these things, but it's just taking the FUN out of it! I remember the days of character leaks and "OMG what's the next new design going to be?" The little thrills from seeing them pull off something brand new, original. I MISS that. That was the beset part of this hobby...what are they going to do next? We've reached the point where WE ALREADY KNOW because nothing is new! For the love of bacon and pie, can somebody PLEASE grow a freaking imagination?

End of rant.

I dunno man, the reasons why they do it are numerous and well documented at this point. A big part of it is holding onto the Trademarks for the character's names. It pretty much REQUIRES them to make a figure to keep the Trademark intact. Another, perhaps more germaine to your problem reason is that's what people want over and over again, just bigger and better.

Until they come up with a story that uses completely new characters, this is what it's going to be from now until forever. Over the last three years I've gotten a basic collection down to the point that I can actually ease off collecting outside of figures that fill gaps (Blaster being a huge one in WFC terms). the 'fun' isn't going anywhere for me just because I don't have to buy it all anymore. There'll always be something in whatever line for me (especially as long as they continue the WFC style development) regardless of what iteration of Transformers it's from.

First-Aid wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:
1. Generations Skids was IDW based, not G1 based, they have never released an update of actual G1 Skids (and this clarification is coming from someone who thinks IDW Skids is infinitely better, I have no stake in a new Skids but I get why it's coming).
2. There's no Bumblebee on this list, not sure why you mentioned him.
3. The Silverstreak listing is that blue Bluestreak repaint we just got leaked images of, so it's not a repeat of any of the WFC Datsuns and is in fact the second-ever Hasbro release of that deco that isn't a Con-exclusive/old Subscription service figure.
4. Core Soundwave is literally just a repack because, surprise, Hasbro wants their popular characters on shelves because people buy them, I fail to see why to complain about this.
5. FoC Kickback is a very different design from G1 Kickback, G1 Kickback has never received an update bigger than a Legends Class figure
6. How many past Ratchet's were actually good? Also, the listing's a Core Class figure, it exists for different reasons than a larger Ratchet would just like Core Soundwave.
7. Blaster has received a single update that was actually a proper update of his original design, every other Blaster figure was a lazy Soundwave repaint and a number of them were exclusives anyway.
8. Everyone's complaints about the last Armada Starscream was that he was too small, he lacked a Minicon, and his swords were inaccurate, all things that a Voyager figure/budget should be able to rectify, and also using Armada Starscream helps Hasbro test if there's a market for more UT updates while also getting one of their popular characters on the shelves via the shared Starscream name.

You essentially just made my point, though. ALL of them HAVE HAD UPDATES. Many of them, repeated updates. It's the same characters. It's ALL the same. Monotonous. Unimaginative. Boring. Nothing to push the envelope (the Ark Titan is about the only exception). Are they not capable of creating new toys? New characters? New lines? Even Cyberverse is essentially G1 Redux for the umpteenth time. Yes, I realize there are great characters in G1. But if ya'll remember, they started recycling original characters at the end of the 80s (Action Masters! Pretenders! Same damn characters!), but what happened? If not for BW, Transformers would have stopped altogether more than likely. What did we get in BW? A full, new lineup of well-written, entertaining characters combined with a buttload of new toy technology. Every ten years or so, Hasbro reinvented the TF brand. Released in 1984. Beast Wars reinvigoration in 1996. Live action movieverse in 2007 (as much as a lot of fans don't like it, the Movieverse DID revive interest in the public). We're overdue...it's been 15 years. A shakeup is needed. What can Hasbro do if they let the engineers, designers, and creative team really cut loose rather than say "Let's continue to rehash the same characters over and over"? I'd like to see that, and I think we need it.

While I wholeheartedly agree with you on this (Beast Wars was my intro to Transformers and the 2007 movie brought me back), Generations is not the place for that. Generations is for updates, so you shouldn`t expect anything else from it. Innovation, if it happens, which hopefully it will, is going to take place in whatever comes after Cyberverse.

Nemesis Primal wrote:

Nuclearxpotato wrote:

alekese wrote:Having skimmed through the tfw thread, the guy who claims to know the next titan seems to be strongly implying that evolution's titan is super mode armada prime, but won't confirm or deny until an actual listing is found. Looking forward to it if true.

Could you clarify on why you think that? I've been following JT's comments since the listings started dropping and I don't think he's said anything that'd imply Armada Prime specifically.

If anything, the general consensus seems to be that the hints indicate Cybertron Metroplex.

I think the consensus is that we're all looking for what we want to see . I see hints to a Titan Tidal Wave where others see Cybertron Metroplex, though I will say that Tidal Wave is one of two Armada designs that Hasbro's acknowledged in CHUG (the other being Armada Starscream who supposedly is getting a figure as a retool).

Overcracker wrote:Here's wacky theory...

What if the only new mold is Motormaster? Commander Class would be warranted to give him his full trailer and his full Menasor torso mode and accessories, but the rest of the stunticons are just rereleases of CW, with maybe minor improvements?

Would that be enough?

I'd spend the money on a Motormaster that looks like his G1 self more than CW did.

I don’t think your theory is actually all that wacky. Commander Class Motormaster gives us a much more G1 version of the character, instead of just an alternate tooling of Optimus Prime, particularly in alternate mode, where Motormaster can at last have his iconic double-length trailer. The budget can co into making a much better torso mode, compatible with Combiner Wars/Unite Warriors, that is more G1 toy and/or screen accurate, with tight, strong ratcheting joints, more articulation in the shoulders and hips, and a set of replacement combined hands and feet akin to the later combiner releases over the past few years, with individually articulated fingers and ankle rocker joints. Some nice accessories like a new sword and gun for combined mode plus some fun props from the original cartoon would round out the price.

Consider too that Dragstrip is the first, and so far only, Stunticon limb bot confirmed. Compared to his G1 design with 6 wheels, Dragstrip’s CW/UW design, with only four wheels, is the next most off-model after Motormaster. Maintaining compatibility with the CW/UW system would be a smart move too. If we do get the whole Stunticon team redone, collectors can pick and choose which members of the team to update, instead of rebuying the whole team, to mix and match to achieve just the right look they want for their Menasor.

PrymeStriker wrote:Arcee is also in the listings, which I don't see in the news post.

Edit: I see it being discussed earlier in the thread, but again, not in the news post.

Because the Arcee listing wasn't found until a few hours after the news post was made, and no one has added her to the original post or made a new news post yet.

Nuclearxpotato wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:

Nuclearxpotato wrote:

alekese wrote:Having skimmed through the tfw thread, the guy who claims to know the next titan seems to be strongly implying that evolution's titan is super mode armada prime, but won't confirm or deny until an actual listing is found. Looking forward to it if true.

Could you clarify on why you think that? I've been following JT's comments since the listings started dropping and I don't think he's said anything that'd imply Armada Prime specifically.

If anything, the general consensus seems to be that the hints indicate Cybertron Metroplex.

I think the consensus is that we're all looking for what we want to see . I see hints to a Titan Tidal Wave where others see Cybertron Metroplex, though I will say that Tidal Wave is one of two Armada designs that Hasbro's acknowledged in CHUG (the other being Armada Starscream who supposedly is getting a figure as a retool).

I mean, I would be way more excited for a big-ass Tidal Wave than I would Cybertron Metroplex, but considering:
1. The original hints were "build" and "giant", only one of which really applies to Tidal Wave,
2. JTPrime blatantly said he WASN'T hinting at Tidal Wave,
3. JTPrime also said that multiple of the users guessing did get the identity of the Titan right, and
4. When somebody said "it clearly isn't Metroplex", JTPrime responded with "Just curious, what makes you think that?"
that's a lot of indicators for Cybertron Metroplex in my eyes.

First-Aid wrote:You essentially just made my point, though. ALL of them HAVE HAD UPDATES. Many of them, repeated updates. It's the same characters. It's ALL the same. Monotonous. Unimaginative. Boring. Nothing to push the envelope (the Ark Titan is about the only exception). Are they not capable of creating new toys? New characters? New lines? Even Cyberverse is essentially G1 Redux for the umpteenth time. Yes, I realize there are great characters in G1. But if ya'll remember, they started recycling original characters at the end of the 80s (Action Masters! Pretenders! Same damn characters!), but what happened? If not for BW, Transformers would have stopped altogether more than likely. What did we get in BW? A full, new lineup of well-written, entertaining characters combined with a buttload of new toy technology. Every ten years or so, Hasbro reinvented the TF brand. Released in 1984. Beast Wars reinvigoration in 1996. Live action movieverse in 2007 (as much as a lot of fans don't like it, the Movieverse DID revive interest in the public). We're overdue...it's been 15 years. A shakeup is needed. What can Hasbro do if they let the engineers, designers, and creative team really cut loose rather than say "Let's continue to rehash the same characters over and over"? I'd like to see that, and I think we need it.

...okay, see, from the combination of how you originally worded it and the fact that you're voicing this complaint in a thread solely focused on the Generations lines, I assumed you were complaining about the character choices because you wanted different characters in Generations, but no, your complaint is that...Generations exists instead of new concepts?

If that's what you're trying to say, the lack of new concepts is a complaint to direct at the Cyberverse stuff for not being different enough, not here. The entire point of Generations is that it's almost exclusively updates for pre-existing characters, looking to it for new concepts is an exercise in futility 98% of the time.

well if they want a unicron trilogy titan it surely has to be Unicron. doesnt matter to hasbro if they released a figure a few years back or a weeks back Sounds like I'll be saving money on the titan that rumors said there wasnt going to be another of anyways.

The arcee thing seems odd unless they saw the third party upgrade to kingdoms and are just bundling it in with her. more likely she will be from Prime to go with bulkhead if the RED figures sold well enough (if that even came out yet)

Wolfman Jake wrote:

Overcracker wrote:Here's wacky theory...

What if the only new mold is Motormaster? Commander Class would be warranted to give him his full trailer and his full Menasor torso mode and accessories, but the rest of the stunticons are just rereleases of CW, with maybe minor improvements?

Would that be enough?

I'd spend the money on a Motormaster that looks like his G1 self more than CW did.

I don’t think your theory is actually all that wacky. Commander Class Motormaster gives us a much more G1 version of the character, instead of just an alternate tooling of Optimus Prime, particularly in alternate mode, where Motormaster can at last have his iconic double-length trailer. The budget can co into making a much better torso mode, compatible with Combiner Wars/Unite Warriors, that is more G1 toy and/or screen accurate, with tight, strong ratcheting joints, more articulation in the shoulders and hips, and a set of replacement combined hands and feet akin to the later combiner releases over the past few years, with individually articulated fingers and ankle rocker joints. Some nice accessories like a new sword and gun for combined mode plus some fun props from the original cartoon would round out the price.

Consider too that Dragstrip is the first, and so far only, Stunticon limb bot confirmed. Compared to his G1 design with 6 wheels, Dragstrip’s CW/UW design, with only four wheels, is the next most off-model after Motormaster. Maintaining compatibility with the CW/UW system would be a smart move too. If we do get the whole Stunticon team redone, collectors can pick and choose which members of the team to update, instead of rebuying the whole team, to mix and match to achieve just the right look they want for their Menasor.

This may be the first Titan I skip, as none of the rumors, or fan theories sounds compelling, as the definition of the term loses meaning. I guess I can only hope for a Metrotitan through Selects if Black Zarak does well enough, and as far as Majin Zarak, that I guess will stay in the "toys you hope Hasbro makes but never will" thread.

Nemesis Primal wrote:

First-Aid wrote:You essentially just made my point, though. ALL of them HAVE HAD UPDATES. Many of them, repeated updates. It's the same characters. It's ALL the same. Monotonous. Unimaginative. Boring. Nothing to push the envelope (the Ark Titan is about the only exception). Are they not capable of creating new toys? New characters? New lines? Even Cyberverse is essentially G1 Redux for the umpteenth time. Yes, I realize there are great characters in G1. But if ya'll remember, they started recycling original characters at the end of the 80s (Action Masters! Pretenders! Same damn characters!), but what happened? If not for BW, Transformers would have stopped altogether more than likely. What did we get in BW? A full, new lineup of well-written, entertaining characters combined with a buttload of new toy technology. Every ten years or so, Hasbro reinvented the TF brand. Released in 1984. Beast Wars reinvigoration in 1996. Live action movieverse in 2007 (as much as a lot of fans don't like it, the Movieverse DID revive interest in the public). We're overdue...it's been 15 years. A shakeup is needed. What can Hasbro do if they let the engineers, designers, and creative team really cut loose rather than say "Let's continue to rehash the same characters over and over"? I'd like to see that, and I think we need it.

...okay, see, from the combination of how you originally worded it and the fact that you're voicing this complaint in a thread solely focused on the Generations lines, I assumed you were complaining about the character choices because you wanted different characters in Generations, but no, your complaint is that...Generations exists instead of new concepts?

If that's what you're trying to say, the lack of new concepts is a complaint to direct at the Cyberverse stuff for not being different enough, not here. The entire point of Generations is that it's almost exclusively updates for pre-existing characters, looking to it for new concepts is an exercise in futility 98% of the time.

It's really a mixture of both. I enjoy the Generations/Legacy line and the overall concept. But I'd really like them to expand to some of the other characters and lines. Inevitably, it seems the line comes back to the same groups: Seekers, Prowl/Bluestreak/Smokescreen, Ironhide/Ratchet, Bumblebee/Cliffjumper, Dinobots, Hoist/Trailbreaker, Grapple/Inferno, and various combiners. That's pretty much all of the Generations-themed lines for the last 20 years. 1 or 2 odd "new" old characters occasional get thrown in (Snapdragon/Apeface, Doubledealer, etc). There ARE other older characters that could be redone. The deluxe Insecticons come to mind. The Throttlebots. The entire Armada series not named Starscream or Hot Shot- an updated Red Alert would be sweet, or a Scavenger with, I don't know, legs and feet? Energon and Cybertron, really you can't upgrade them much as the cartoons were essentially based entirely on them, though improved combinations modes from Energon would be nice. What about the Japanese Beast Wars? Throw some of those characters into this line. The end point is that there is a ton out there to explore and update, but they fixate on these few characters we get repeatedly. I've said it before, I'd love to see a 1:32 or 1:40 scale Transformers line. Scaled correctly across the board based on vehicle or animal mode, with new takes on the original characters- not fitting the altmode to the bot, but fitting the bot to the altmode. Think of the size of a bot based on a to-scale F22 versus a to-scale SUV. How big would Dinobots be? What about Constructicons based on actual scale? Hook would be enormous while Bonecrusher could be half his size. Combaticons to scale? Does anyone know how huge Blastoff would be? Predacons to scale? Tiny Divebomb! Protectobots? Itty-bitty Groove! THIS would be a fun reinvention. Yes we had Alternators/Binaltech. But taking that to the next level.

On a side note, I'm waiting for Transformers X version of Eagle 5. Spaceballs the Transformer!

First-Aid wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:

First-Aid wrote:You essentially just made my point, though. ALL of them HAVE HAD UPDATES. Many of them, repeated updates. It's the same characters. It's ALL the same. Monotonous. Unimaginative. Boring. Nothing to push the envelope (the Ark Titan is about the only exception). Are they not capable of creating new toys? New characters? New lines? Even Cyberverse is essentially G1 Redux for the umpteenth time. Yes, I realize there are great characters in G1. But if ya'll remember, they started recycling original characters at the end of the 80s (Action Masters! Pretenders! Same damn characters!), but what happened? If not for BW, Transformers would have stopped altogether more than likely. What did we get in BW? A full, new lineup of well-written, entertaining characters combined with a buttload of new toy technology. Every ten years or so, Hasbro reinvented the TF brand. Released in 1984. Beast Wars reinvigoration in 1996. Live action movieverse in 2007 (as much as a lot of fans don't like it, the Movieverse DID revive interest in the public). We're overdue...it's been 15 years. A shakeup is needed. What can Hasbro do if they let the engineers, designers, and creative team really cut loose rather than say "Let's continue to rehash the same characters over and over"? I'd like to see that, and I think we need it.

...okay, see, from the combination of how you originally worded it and the fact that you're voicing this complaint in a thread solely focused on the Generations lines, I assumed you were complaining about the character choices because you wanted different characters in Generations, but no, your complaint is that...Generations exists instead of new concepts?

If that's what you're trying to say, the lack of new concepts is a complaint to direct at the Cyberverse stuff for not being different enough, not here. The entire point of Generations is that it's almost exclusively updates for pre-existing characters, looking to it for new concepts is an exercise in futility 98% of the time.

It's really a mixture of both. I enjoy the Generations/Legacy line and the overall concept. But I'd really like them to expand to some of the other characters and lines. Inevitably, it seems the line comes back to the same groups: Seekers, Prowl/Bluestreak/Smokescreen, Ironhide/Ratchet, Bumblebee/Cliffjumper, Dinobots, Hoist/Trailbreaker, Grapple/Inferno, and various combiners. That's pretty much all of the Generations-themed lines for the last 20 years. 1 or 2 odd "new" old characters occasional get thrown in (Snapdragon/Apeface, Doubledealer, etc). There ARE other older characters that could be redone. The deluxe Insecticons come to mind. The Throttlebots. The entire Armada series not named Starscream or Hot Shot- an updated Red Alert would be sweet, or a Scavenger with, I don't know, legs and feet? Energon and Cybertron, really you can't upgrade them much as the cartoons were essentially based entirely on them, though improved combinations modes from Energon would be nice. What about the Japanese Beast Wars? Throw some of those characters into this line. The end point is that there is a ton out there to explore and update, but they fixate on these few characters we get repeatedly. I've said it before, I'd love to see a 1:32 or 1:40 scale Transformers line. Scaled correctly across the board based on vehicle or animal mode, with new takes on the original characters- not fitting the altmode to the bot, but fitting the bot to the altmode. Think of the size of a bot based on a to-scale F22 versus a to-scale SUV. How big would Dinobots be? What about Constructicons based on actual scale? Hook would be enormous while Bonecrusher could be half his size. Combaticons to scale? Does anyone know how huge Blastoff would be? Predacons to scale? Tiny Divebomb! Protectobots? Itty-bitty Groove! THIS would be a fun reinvention. Yes we had Alternators/Binaltech. But taking that to the next level.

On a side note, I'm waiting for Transformers X version of Eagle 5. Spaceballs the Transformer!

I think that, given Kingdom and the Armada rumours, you have reason to be optimistic about Generations then.

On the one hand I love your idea for a next-level alternators, it's literally my dream, but on the other, I also know that it's not feasible without Masterpiece pricing or keeping the car bots legends sized.

Personally, I'd like them to go all in with the modulator thing. Make Transformers infinitely modular. We'll see what happens after Cyberverse, hopefully not another rehash.

Rtron wrote:
I think that, given Kingdom and the Armada rumours, you have reason to be optimistic about Generations then.

On the one hand I love your idea for a next-level alternators, it's literally my dream, but on the other, I also know that it's not feasible without Masterpiece pricing or keeping the car bots legends sized.

Personally, I'd like them to go all in with the modulator thing. Make Transformers infinitely modular. We'll see what happens after Cyberverse, hopefully not another rehash.

I'm calling rehash already. For the next series AND the series after that.

Not sure about MP Pricing for a to-scale line. The Alternity cars were an excellent size, being just a bit bigger than most current deluxes at 1:32 scale. 1:36 or 1:40 could be very effective. A full size semi with trailer at 1:40 scale would be about 4 inches in height and 20 inches long, but without the trailer, it would be about 8 inches long. Cars would be about 2 inches in width and 4 1/2 inches long. An F22 would be about 18 inches long (Commander or Titan class, room for electronics); same for a T-Rex. Ah-64 about 12 inches. The possibilities are pretty good and would present a nice deviation from altmodes being secondary to bots.

First-Aid wrote:

Rtron wrote:
I think that, given Kingdom and the Armada rumours, you have reason to be optimistic about Generations then.

On the one hand I love your idea for a next-level alternators, it's literally my dream, but on the other, I also know that it's not feasible without Masterpiece pricing or keeping the car bots legends sized.

Personally, I'd like them to go all in with the modulator thing. Make Transformers infinitely modular. We'll see what happens after Cyberverse, hopefully not another rehash.

I'm calling rehash already. For the next series AND the series after that.

Not sure about MP Pricing for a to-scale line. The Alternity cars were an excellent size, being just a bit bigger than most current deluxes at 1:32 scale. 1:36 or 1:40 could be very effective. A full size semi with trailer at 1:40 scale would be about 4 inches in height and 20 inches long, but without the trailer, it would be about 8 inches long. Cars would be about 2 inches in width and 4 1/2 inches long. An F22 would be about 18 inches long (Commander or Titan class, room for electronics); same for a T-Rex. Ah-64 about 12 inches. The possibilities are pretty good and would present a nice deviation from altmodes being secondary to bots.

You're probably right about rehashing. But I'll keep dreaming of the next G1/Beast Wars/2007 movie scale renewal being an open world videogame with an innovative take on transformation as a gameplay element. I'm a very delusional man.

Yeah, but the problem is costs. You're talking about Alternators, but keeping that level of functionality in a deluxe sized bot would leave you with either a very bad robot mode, or a 50 usd deluxe. A great idea, but not very feasible.

You just reminded me of a minor pet peeve about Movie Starscream toys: They always make the alt mode too small and filled with stuff underneath, because his robot mode is half as tall as the jet mode is long. Never understood why they don't just use that extra robot chonk to have a bigger jet mode. That volume shift is the whole point of the design! They even missed out on doing this on the Masterpiece.

ZeroWolf wrote:Also at the moment, the Titans are perfectly balanced with 5 a piece (by years end when Black Zarak drops)

Autobot:

Metroplex
Fortress Maximus
Grand Maximus
Omega Supreme
Ark

Decepticon:
Devastator
Trypticon
Predaking
Scropoknok
Black Zarak

Oh, yeah, I totally forget/ignore Devastator & Predaking. I bought the smaller KO Devastator because I wanted him to be the same size as all my other combiners (as he should be) & I bought 2 different 3rd party Predakings. Hasbro's Predaking was absolutely horrible so I just block it out of my memory. So whenever I think of Decepticon titans I only think of Trypticon & Scorponok with Black Zarak on the way. Hasbro's Devastator & Predaking don't exist to me. So that's my fault. My personal titan collection is Autobot heavy. So I was really hoping The Nemesis would be next.

This is insanely disappointing to me. I was positive we'd be getting the Nemesis next. I never even considered them switching over to Beast Wars or the UT or anything like that. I might just buy 2 Arks & make a custom Decepticon out of it. Or what about a Shattered Glass Ark?

Hey, I'm just going to throw out a couple thoughts I've had (and I'm sure others have as well) in regards to what we're getting in Legacy, and possibly in the future.

First, I think to some degree, even though for some it will be a small one, people should feel pretty good about where the mainline of this toy is headed.
That's not to suggest that it's not overdue. It is. In fact, we could all legitimately say that this has happened for a long, long time with multiple facets of this toy line.
No matter when you started collecting, which show or movie you first watched, G1 was first.
And no matter what the reasons are, it is the most followed, and maybe more importantly, most recognized.
This has influenced everything since.
Right or wrong, good or bad, that's where we're at.
Hastak is going to do whatever they feel is going to bring in the most profit, and I feel that more and more, they are trying to cater to fans and collectors... This second aspect is getting better, and hopefully continue.

I won't go into depth with my thoughts on "Hastak has said collectors only make up 30% of our consumer market". Bottom line is I don't know how they'd ever be able to figure that out, on top of thinking it has to be higher than this.

Assuming Hastak knows at all what they're doing from a business-side of all of this, they're only going to do what they know is going to make money.
I always want TF to sell well, especially in a main line such as Legacy...
But it's going to be very interesting to see how this all plays out with figures from other series.
Sure, people have made the point, "Kids just want and buy what they think looks cool". And I totally agree with this. I've seen this happen with one of my own sons.
but hopefully lots and lots and lots of kids like the look of some of these lesser known characters/versions.
And I mean "lesser known" referring to the average person, not necessarily the average collector or fan.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I know BW has a relatively large fan group, but as for the other series, as far as I know (and assume), it's not nearly the same.

So those wanting Hastak to push and push and expand the horizons, keep in mind what their goal is, and how that effects their decisions.

When is Hasbro going to make a Generations Powermaster Slapdash and Joyride? I want the Throttlebots too.

alekese wrote:

o.supreme wrote:

Nemesis Reformatted wrote:I'm reading the thread over on TFW & it's really pissing me off. One guy says he already knows what the next Titan is. And they're all saying it's Unicron Trilogy based. I cannot believe or accept the Nemesis won't be the next titan. After the Ark they need to make the Nemesis. Not only because they go together but also because the titans are Autobot heavy. Titan class needs more Decepticons. I'm sick & tired of Hasbro constantly pushing the good guys.

Again, remember this is all RUMOR... However, in all the Unicron Trilogy, I can only think of three Toys/characters worthy of a Titan Class....

1. Armada/Energon Unicron (Haslab just came out so not likely)
2. Energon Omega Supreme/Omega Sentinel (With Siege Omega in 2019, again not likely)
3. Cybertron Primus (this was reissued in 2017 for TLK for some reason ). Although the idea of Having a new Primus Titan would be cool, and a Haslab Primus a near impossibility, I don't think they would go that direction....

So who is left?

Tidalwave- He is a Large Decepticon. It's not what I would want, I think he is much better served as a CC, but I know a lot of fans do want it, so it makes sense.

Also historically, the ratio of Good/Evil Titan class toys has been even, and I'm sure that will continue

Having skimmed through the tfw thread, the guy who claims to know the next titan seems to be strongly implying that evolution's titan is super mode armada prime, but won't confirm or deny until an actual listing is found. Looking forward to it if true.

But the clues he gave were "SHIP" & "SINK". How does that connect to Optimus Prime?

Nemesis Primal wrote: 1. Generations Skids was IDW based, not G1 based, they have never released an update of actual G1 Skids (and this clarification is coming from someone who thinks IDW Skids is infinitely better, I have no stake in a new Skids but I get why it's coming).

In the WFC trilogy we got new updates of every 84/85 Autobot car except for Skids. So I really need a new G1 accurate Skids. I've been hoping Hasbro would update the last one. So this is awesome news.

Nemesis Primal wrote:
3. The Silverstreak listing is that blue Bluestreak repaint we just got leaked images of, so it's not a repeat of any of the WFC Datsuns and is in fact the second-ever Hasbro release of that deco that isn't a Con-exclusive/old Subscription service figure.

Why the hell is everybody calling him "SILVERstreak"??? That is the REAL BLUEstreak straight off the official Hasbro G1 box. If anything, the all silver toy & the version in the cartoon were mistakes and are "SILVERstreak". The official GI box of Bluestreak shows the original blue Diaclone art. Why are people refusing to accept this truth? I don't understand why everybody is trying to act like the official G1 box that Hasbro did in fact release in stores is not Bluestreak. What exactly is going on here? I'm the only one saying "THAT IS THE REAL BLUESTREAK" the way he was originally supposed to be. People are calling the blue figure "silver" & the silver figure "blue" and it doesn't make any sense at all.

Bluestreak was BLUE on the official G1 box officially released by Hasbro. And in the original G1 instruction booklet. Why can't anybody accept this?

STOP calling it SILVERstreak! BLUEstreak is BLUE! The official Hasbro box says so. Nobody can argue with that. It's a done deal whether you like it or not.

OFFICIALLY OFFICIAL straight from Hasbro. This is what BLUEstreak looks like:


And screw the cartoon. That thing is loaded with mistakes. I just watched my new 86 movie blu-ray & in the scene where Soundwave says "Rumble, Frenzy, Ravage, Ratbat eject" Rumble & Frenzy are both red. So I'm not gonna be going by the cartoon. The cartoon is all messed up.

Armada Starscream?!


Is this "Legacy" line the one to succeed the War for Cybertron trilogy?

Also First-Aid,I understand that you want HasTak to something different,and with this line up seens to be the first step in this direction.

Day 590 of waiting for Transformers Armada Masterpiece news.

Nemesis Reformatted wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote: 1. Generations Skids was IDW based, not G1 based, they have never released an update of actual G1 Skids (and this clarification is coming from someone who thinks IDW Skids is infinitely better, I have no stake in a new Skids but I get why it's coming).

In the WFC trilogy we got new updates of every 84/85 Autobot car except for Skids. So I really need a new G1 accurate Skids. I've been hoping Hasbro would update the last one. So this is awesome news.

Nemesis Primal wrote:
3. The Silverstreak listing is that blue Bluestreak repaint we just got leaked images of, so it's not a repeat of any of the WFC Datsuns and is in fact the second-ever Hasbro release of that deco that isn't a Con-exclusive/old Subscription service figure.

Why the hell is everybody calling him "SILVERstreak"??? That is the REAL BLUEstreak straight off the official Hasbro G1 box. If anything, the all silver toy & the version in the cartoon were mistakes and are "SILVERstreak". The official GI box of Bluestreak shows the original blue Diaclone art. Why are people refusing to accept this truth? I don't understand why everybody is trying to act like the official G1 box that Hasbro did in fact release in stores is not Bluestreak. What exactly is going on here? I'm the only one saying "THAT IS THE REAL BLUESTREAK" the way he was originally supposed to be. People are calling the blue figure "silver" & the silver figure "blue" and it doesn't make any sense at all.

Bluestreak was BLUE on the official G1 box officially released by Hasbro. And in the original G1 instruction booklet. Why can't anybody accept this?

STOP calling it SILVERstreak! BLUEstreak is BLUE! The official Hasbro box says so. Nobody can argue with that. It's a done deal whether you like it or not.

OFFICIALLY OFFICIAL straight from Hasbro. This is what BLUEstreak looks like:


And screw the cartoon. That thing is loaded with mistakes. I just watched my new 86 movie blu-ray & in the scene where Soundwave says "Rumble, Frenzy, Ravage, Ratbat eject" Rumble & Frenzy are both red. So I'm not gonna be going by the cartoon. The cartoon is all messed up.

You seem pretty heated about the new silverstreak toy

Nemesis Reformatted wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote: 1. Generations Skids was IDW based, not G1 based, they have never released an update of actual G1 Skids (and this clarification is coming from someone who thinks IDW Skids is infinitely better, I have no stake in a new Skids but I get why it's coming).

In the WFC trilogy we got new updates of every 84/85 Autobot car except for Skids. So I really need a new G1 accurate Skids. I've been hoping Hasbro would update the last one. So this is awesome news.

Nemesis Primal wrote:
3. The Silverstreak listing is that blue Bluestreak repaint we just got leaked images of, so it's not a repeat of any of the WFC Datsuns and is in fact the second-ever Hasbro release of that deco that isn't a Con-exclusive/old Subscription service figure.

Why the hell is everybody calling him "SILVERstreak"??? That is the REAL BLUEstreak straight off the official Hasbro G1 box. If anything, the all silver toy & the version in the cartoon were mistakes and are "SILVERstreak". The official GI box of Bluestreak shows the original blue Diaclone art. Why are people refusing to accept this truth? I don't understand why everybody is trying to act like the official G1 box that Hasbro did in fact release in stores is not Bluestreak. What exactly is going on here? I'm the only one saying "THAT IS THE REAL BLUESTREAK" the way he was originally supposed to be. People are calling the blue figure "silver" & the silver figure "blue" and it doesn't make any sense at all.

Bluestreak was BLUE on the official G1 box officially released by Hasbro. And in the original G1 instruction booklet. Why can't anybody accept this?

STOP calling it SILVERstreak! BLUEstreak is BLUE! The official Hasbro box says so. Nobody can argue with that. It's a done deal whether you like it or not.

OFFICIALLY OFFICIAL straight from Hasbro. This is what BLUEstreak looks like:


And screw the cartoon. That thing is loaded with mistakes. I just watched my new 86 movie blu-ray & in the scene where Soundwave says "Rumble, Frenzy, Ravage, Ratbat eject" Rumble & Frenzy are both red. So I'm not gonna be going by the cartoon. The cartoon is all messed up.

Dude, chill. It's called wordplay. Silver Bluestreak has been called Bluestreak for longer than I've been alive at this point, they aren't about to change his name. So they gave the blue guy Bluestreak's alternate name. It's just a bit of fun, a joke.