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Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

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Re: Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

Postby shajaki » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:23 pm

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Technically if MP Reflector were to ever happen (all three sold together, just as I would expect of Runabout & Runamuck and the Insecticons) wouldn't it have to actually be a working camera?
I've been going over this statement for a while, trying to understand it. And I don't. So help me out.

What "technicality" makes you believe an MP Reflector would need to be a working camera? The original wasn't, and (so far) the MP's made with device type alt modes (Soundwave, Megatron, cassettes) are not functional.

Also your second statement about them being released as a single box while I think would be likely (if they were officially made) but not for your other examples. That would be like expecting Sideswipe and Sunstreaker to released together, or the Seeker trio's.
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Re: Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:35 am

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shajaki wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Technically if MP Reflector were to ever happen (all three sold together, just as I would expect of Runabout & Runamuck and the Insecticons) wouldn't it have to actually be a working camera?
I've been going over this statement for a while, trying to understand it. And I don't. So help me out.

What "technicality" makes you believe an MP Reflector would need to be a working camera? The original wasn't, and (so far) the MP's made with device type alt modes (Soundwave, Megatron, cassettes) are not functional.


Image


Right. First off, I'm noticing a bit of a running theme here. Where clearly some of the more bloodthirsty among us wanted Megatron to be a real gun. I suppose some countries really do have a more lax attitude to firearms, after all. Different strokes for different folks and all that too, I guess :shock:

Secondly, Soundwave's altmode is functional, in that it can store (and deploy) the Cassettes, which also applies to the Cassettes in reverse. The word "music" is omitted from both his altmode and theirs for this reason. It's not a human tape player, much as Megatron wasn't a human gun. They just looked like them IE
ROBOTS IN DISGUISE

To that end, Megatron's altmode too is functional in it's visual authenticity.

So, because I've just come home from a long day at work and I'm tired of repeating myself, let's break this down.

Image


Reflector is a trio (or single bot with cloning, the fiction seems really vague). That is what they looked like in 1985/86.

Reflector is composed of three distinct robots that combine to form a camera: Viewfinder as the central component with the lens, Spectro as the right-side component with the shutter button, and Spyglass as the left-side component with the flash. It includes a telephoto lens and old-style flashcube that doubles as a missile launcher,


Now we've cleared up what he/they were and what the original components did in their Gestalt form.

If Reflector did make it to them MP line, people are saying that they would pay a MP Collection price tag for a visually updated figure that did no more than one in 1985? Considering it would hopefully be sold as a Trio, no doubt Reflector would be more expensive than the average MP Car-Bot.

The difference between Reflector and every one else is that individually they transform into nothing. Also when it does Transform into a Camera, it serves no other purpose. Not a Car/Jet/Beast/Mini-bot carrier etc

Given the ingenuity that went into MP-36, I would logically think they could do more with a Trio of bots that turn into a Camera than leave it as an expensive and superficial plastic shell.

shajaki wrote:Also your second statement about them being released as a single box while I think would be likely (if they were officially made) but not for your other examples. That would be like expecting Sideswipe and Sunstreaker to released together, or the Seeker trio's.


The Battlechargers are a noted (largely inseparable) pair. Not even brothers like Sunstreaker et al More like clones. One is coloured black, the other white. They are otherwise identical. It would actually make less sense financially to try to sell them separately, in that respect. Much in the same way you wouldn't sell Scourge and the Sweeps separately.

As for the Insecticons, my thoughts are given their size they would make more sense as a Multi-pack, as they did with the MP Cassettes.
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Re: Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

Postby -Kanrabat- » Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:57 am

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Unless the The Battlechargers are tiny like cassettes, you can bet you left AND right nut that they would sell those repaints separately. Same thing with the insecticons.
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Re: Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:02 am

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-Kanrabat- wrote:Unless the The Battlechargers are tiny like cassettes, you can bet you left AND right nut that they would sell those repaints separately. Same thing with the Insecticons.



Here's the thing though, The Insecticons are about the same size as Ravage, Laserbeak etc The Deluxe Insecticons(that most people have forgotten about), not so much. But Bombshell, Kickback & Shrapnel are smaller than Bumblebee.
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Re: Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

Postby Ironhidensh » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:06 am

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When have Scourge and the sweeps ever been sold together?
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Re: Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:08 am

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Ironhidensh wrote:When have Scourge and the sweeps ever been sold together?



When have the Sweeps (specifically) ever been sold on their own?
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Re: Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:09 am

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:If Reflector did make it to them MP line, people are saying that they would pay a MP Collection price tag for a visually updated figure that did no more than one in 1985? Considering it would hopefully be sold as a Trio, no doubt Reflector would be more expensive than the average MP Car-Bot.

The difference between Reflector and every one else is that individually they transform into nothing. Also when it does Transform into a Camera, it serves no other purpose. Not a Car/Jet/Beast/Mini-bot carrier etc

Given the ingenuity that went into MP-36, I would logically think they could do more with a Trio of bots that turn into a Camera than leave it as an expensive and superficial plastic shell.
Well, MP Shockwave's altmode did less than what G1 Shockwave's altmode could do in 1985.
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Re: Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:10 am

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
Ironhidensh wrote:When have Scourge and the sweeps ever been sold together?



When have the Sweeps (specifically) ever been sold on their own?
BotCon 2009?
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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:15 am

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Sabrblade wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
Ironhidensh wrote:When have Scourge and the sweeps ever been sold together?

When have the Sweeps (specifically) ever been sold on their own?
BotCon 2009?



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No,no,no. I said "Sweeps", not Scourge.
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Re: Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

Postby william-james88 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:35 am

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Ironhidensh wrote:When have Scourge and the sweeps ever been sold together?


https://tfsource.com/platinum/armada-of-cyclonus/

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Re: Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:17 am

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
Ironhidensh wrote:When have Scourge and the sweeps ever been sold together?

When have the Sweeps (specifically) ever been sold on their own?
BotCon 2009?



Image

No,no,no. I said "Sweeps", not Scourge.
Exactly my point.

Image
Image
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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

Postby shajaki » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:19 am

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Where clearly some of the more bloodthirsty among us wanted Megatron to be a real gun.
This is absolutely insane. With how difficult it is to make a toy gun these days, there is ZERO chance that a REAL WORKING GUN Megatron will ever be made. Nevermind it would be damn near impossible to physically achieve anyways. Honestly... I can't even #-o

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Secondly, Soundwave's altmode is functional,
Ok. When I say "fuctional", I mean him transforming into a working cassette player. Which he absolutely does not.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:It's not a human tape player, much as Megatron wasn't a human gun. They just looked like them IE ROBOTS IN DISGUISE
To that end, Megatron's altmode too is functional in it's visual authenticity.
Again, what you call "functional" differs wildly from what I do. You're expecting Reflector to be a working camera, but Soundwave/Megatron are allowed to simply "look the part"? :???:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:If Reflector did make it to them MP line, people are saying that they would pay a MP Collection price tag for a visually updated figure that did no more than one in 1985?
The MP line is not simply about a visual update. It is (now) about updated engineering and cartoon accuracy. If they do those two things, they've done their jobs. By that definition they automatically do more than one in 1985. So what MORE do you expect him to do?

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:The difference between Reflector and every one else is that individually they transform into nothing. Also when it does Transform into a Camera, it serves no other purpose. Not a Car/Jet/Beast/Mini-bot carrier etc
But... that's exactly what he's supposed to do/be. Again, what more do you expect him to do? And, if he were designed to do more outside of the scope of the G1 cartoon, it would be going against the current modus operandi Takara has for the MP line.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Given the ingenuity that went into MP-36, I would logically think they could do more with a Trio of bots that turn into a Camera than leave it as an expensive and superficial plastic shell.
MP-36 Megatron was ingenious, but he doesn't do anything outside of the "cartoon accuracy" scope. As in he doesn't do anything outlandish, and y'know what he turns into? A superficial shell. If an MP Reflector were made, all he would need to do is turn from a "superficial camera", into three dudes.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Much in the same way you wouldn't sell Scourge and the Sweeps separately.
Not only have there only 2 official Sweeps ever made, but only 1 of those was sold WITH Scourge. So I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Here's the thing though, The Insecticons are about the same size as Ravage, Laserbeak etc The Deluxe Insecticons(that most people have forgotten about), not so much. But Bombshell, Kickback & Shrapnel are smaller than Bumblebee.
Wonky cartoon scale aside, they are not as small as the cassettes. And certainly should not scale to the MP cassettes.
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Re: Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:57 am

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Sabrblade wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
Ironhidensh wrote:When have Scourge and the sweeps ever been sold together?

When have the Sweeps (specifically) ever been sold on their own?
BotCon 2009?



Image

No,no,no. I said "Sweeps", not Scourge.
Exactly my point.

Image
Image



I know exactly what you were referring too, it's still NO. Redeco's of Scourge are still Scourge. The closest thing to an Actual Sweeps release is the TR release with Gnaw, as it is a purpose built retool. Even that is essentially only a Headmaster and not the whole thing.
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Re: Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:10 pm

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
Ironhidensh wrote:When have Scourge and the sweeps ever been sold together?

When have the Sweeps (specifically) ever been sold on their own?
BotCon 2009?



Image

No,no,no. I said "Sweeps", not Scourge.
Exactly my point.

Image
Image



I know exactly what you were referring too, it's still NO. Redeco's of Scourge are still Scourge. The closest thing to an Actual Sweeps release is the TR release with Gnaw, as it is a purpose built retool. Even that is essentially only a Headmaster and not the whole thing.
That's not what you asked. You asked when Sweeps, just Sweeps, have been sold by themselves packaged separately from Scourge. That BotCon set was sold by itself as a separate purchase from Scourge. They did not come with Scourge.

Besides, Scourge himself has never been teal and gold (barring SG, which itself was just a repurpose of one of those Sweep toys). Those Sweeps were colored that way to distinctly show that they aren't him.

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Last edited by Sabrblade on Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

Postby william-james88 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:15 pm

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This discussion is getting really boring and useless
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Re: Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

Postby Ironhidensh » Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:48 pm

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william-james88 wrote:
Ironhidensh wrote:When have Scourge and the sweeps ever been sold together?


https://tfsource.com/platinum/armada-of-cyclonus/

Well I'll be damned.
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Re: Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

Postby william-james88 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:01 pm

Motto: "'till All Are One"
Ironhidensh wrote:
william-james88 wrote:
Ironhidensh wrote:When have Scourge and the sweeps ever been sold together?


https://tfsource.com/platinum/armada-of-cyclonus/

Well I'll be damned.

I realize now that set was never released in the US, so makes sense that you didnt know about it.
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Re: Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

Postby -Kanrabat- » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:19 pm

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william-james88 wrote:
Ironhidensh wrote:
william-james88 wrote:
Ironhidensh wrote:When have Scourge and the sweeps ever been sold together?


https://tfsource.com/platinum/armada-of-cyclonus/

Well I'll be damned.

I realize now that set was never released in the US, so makes sense that you didnt know about it.


Oh?

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Re: Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:22 pm

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william-james88 wrote:This discussion is getting really boring and useless



Agreed. So pedantry aside, we're moving on...


We have MP Dinobot, Shadow Panther, 17+ Prowl, Hoist, Trailbreaker and BW Megatron. Either imminently released or in the pipeline. So that's three Beast Wars and three G1, predictions on the next?
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Re: Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

Postby Emerje » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:53 pm

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
william-james88 wrote:This discussion is getting really boring and useless



Agreed. So pedantry aside, we're moving on...


We have MP Dinobot, Shadow Panther, 17+ Prowl, Hoist, Trailbreaker and BW Megatron. Either imminently released or in the pipeline. So that's three Beast Wars and three G1, predictions on the next?

We're pretty sure Optimus Prime 3.0 is happening as well, probably the big release for the end of the year.

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Re: Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:55 pm

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Emerje wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
william-james88 wrote:This discussion is getting really boring and useless

Agreed. So pedantry aside, we're moving on...
We have MP Dinobot, Shadow Panther, 17+ Prowl, Hoist, Trailbreaker and BW Megatron. Either imminently released or in the pipeline. So that's three Beast Wars and three G1, predictions on the next?

We're pretty sure Optimus Prime 3.0 is happening as well, probably the big release for the end of the year.

Emerje


Aww yes I knew I forgot one. So are all seven of these expected for release in 2018 or are the latter ones just to be announced?
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Re: Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

Postby Ironhidensh » Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:52 pm

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Re: Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

Postby D-Maximal_Primal » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:06 pm

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Re: Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

Postby william-james88 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:25 pm

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
Emerje wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
william-james88 wrote:This discussion is getting really boring and useless

Agreed. So pedantry aside, we're moving on...
We have MP Dinobot, Shadow Panther, 17+ Prowl, Hoist, Trailbreaker and BW Megatron. Either imminently released or in the pipeline. So that's three Beast Wars and three G1, predictions on the next?

We're pretty sure Optimus Prime 3.0 is happening as well, probably the big release for the end of the year.

Emerje


Aww yes I knew I forgot one. So are all seven of these expected for release in 2018 or are the latter ones just to be announced?


The only MPs confirmed for this year so far are MP Dinobot, Shadow Panther, 17+ Prowl, MPM Ironhide and MPM Barricade.
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Re: Transformers Masterpiece: General Discussion

Postby Cobotron » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:29 am

Motto: "Free your mind, and your ass will follow!"
Weapon: Sword
I'm betting hoping we'll see a Diaclone-esque repaint of Sunstreaker this year in some form or another.
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Agamemnon wrote:Let's get back to talking about Burn's mammoth snout flopping... :-s

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