The Energon Pub

Sabrblade wrote:

william-james88 wrote:That Longrack cybetron toy was a Hasbro toy anyway so I wouldnt look to that for any evidence of japanese popularity.

It actually first debuted in Takara's Galaxy Force line in a Vs. 2-pack with Runamuck (named "Runabout" in Galaxy Force), before it came out single-packed in Hasbro's Cybertron line. .

Thanks, dont know why I was under the impression it was a Hasbro only deco, this makes way more sense.

Sabrblade wrote:It's more because the Transmetals toys weren't well received. The Japanese preferred the more real-looking animals of Season 1.

Maybe if they had some guns, eh Hasbro? Just sayin'

Sabrblade wrote:All I can say is that Second and Neo were simply appetizers meant to tide their viewers over until the main course was ready. And it's not like the two were all that strongly written either. On the whole, they're both just "Okay" series.

I was never able to get past the pilot of BWII. It was the antithesis of everything I enjoyed in Beast Wars. Likewise although I really like most Beast Wars designs, those unique to these shows EG Moon, Stampy etc left me cold...

Are there any numbers that prove Beast Wars II and Neo weren't well received in Japan? Is this just one of those things where fans at the time didn't care for it so it must have been bad? Because that really doesn't mean anything, what did the kids of the time think of it? Just like how in hindsight the G1 cartoon wasn't very good and the toys were bricks that didn't look anything like the cartoon character, we all loved this stuff as kids and that's what has kept the line going all these decades. If the kids liked the II and Neo cartoons and toys at the time then they're the ones that Takara would be trying to put the nostalgia goggles on, not critical adult fans that most likely aren't collectors anymore.

And we can't look at remakes to gauge popularity, Hasbro has only remade Optimus Primal twice after all these years (not counting the MP) and the second one took a fan poll to persuade them and even then it wasn't really what we voted for.

Emerje

We will have more chances of seeing mp lio convoy or big convoy before any mp transformers go! Mp rid/car robots might make an appearance as mp at some point. Hasbro tends to like the name longrack, probably for it being a bewb refference, OK maybe not, but it was animated shock waves autobot name/disguise.

First off cant believe i remembered my login password LOL. I decided quite awhile back i didnt need the masterpiece figures, but seeing the Beast Wars ones im kinda up in the air now (Beast Wars/Machines are my favorite line). Question is what size figures are they comparable to?

STngAR wrote:First off cant believe i remembered my login password LOL. I decided quite awhile back i didnt need the masterpiece figures, but seeing the Beast Wars ones im kinda up in the air now (Beast Wars/Machines are my favorite line). Question is what size figures are they comparable to?

That varies per figure because like the regular MP and Siege lines, Robot Mode scale is taking priority. Based on images and reviews, here are my observations:

Optimus Primal: Voyager Class (slightly taller than T30 Rhinox)
Cheetor: Voyager Class
Dinobot: Leader Class?
Megatron: Bigger than Leader Class.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

STngAR wrote:First off cant believe i remembered my login password LOL. I decided quite awhile back i didnt need the masterpiece figures, but seeing the Beast Wars ones im kinda up in the air now (Beast Wars/Machines are my favorite line). Question is what size figures are they comparable to?

That varies per figure because like the regular MP and Siege lines, Robot Mode scale is taking priority. Based on images and reviews, here are my observations:

Optimus Primal: Voyager Class (slightly taller than T30 Rhinox)
Cheetor: Voyager Class
Dinobot: Leader Class?
Megatron: Bigger than Leader Class.

Thinking back to Beast Machines, Megatron could be Ultra Class? As he is more or less on the same scale as the larger Jetstorm. I was initially torn between Ultra and Supreme, but I doubt we will ever see Supreme Class again.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

STngAR wrote:First off cant believe i remembered my login password LOL. I decided quite awhile back i didnt need the masterpiece figures, but seeing the Beast Wars ones im kinda up in the air now (Beast Wars/Machines are my favorite line). Question is what size figures are they comparable to?

That varies per figure because like the regular MP and Siege lines, Robot Mode scale is taking priority. Based on images and reviews, here are my observations:

Optimus Primal: Voyager Class (slightly taller than T30 Rhinox)
Cheetor: Voyager Class
Dinobot: Leader Class?
Megatron: Bigger than Leader Class.

Thinking back to Beast Machines, Megatron could be Ultra Class? As he is more or less on the same scale as the larger Jetstorm. I was initially torn between Ultra and Supreme, but I doubt we will ever see Supreme Class again.

We'll have to see what Commander class Jetfire looks like in person, cuz while Hasbro keeps saying that he's 11 inches (which is shorter than Supreme class, shorter even than a CW Combiner), all images sure make him look bigger.

In Light of the re-issue of MP-13 Soundwave, lets talk about this guy once more:




And why we are 34 mainline MP's and counting into this line, without Soundwave's rival, Blaster.

Essentially as I see it, MP Soundwave could be used as a template for MP Blaster. New head, New legs and retooling of the torso buttons is all it would take to transform the Soundwave mold into Blaster. Why it has taken this long, many years since MP-13, I would infer at this point as another Movie character snub.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:In Light of the re-issue of MP-13 Soundwave, lets talk about this guy once more:




And why we are 34 mainline MP's and counting into this line, without Soundwave's rival, Blaster.

Essentially as I see it, MP Soundwave could be used as a template for MP Blaster. New head, New legs and retooling of the torso buttons is all it would take to transform the Soundwave mold into Blaster. Why it has taken this long, many years since MP-13, I would infer at this point as another Movie character snub.

They're still figuring out how to put a radio in, like the original Diaclone toy.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:They're still figuring out how to put a radio in, like the original Diaclone toy.

Honestly, at this point, if it gets me an MP Blaster, I'm fine with a retooled Soundwave.

Syclone wrote:Honestly, at this point, if it gets me an MP Blaster, I'm fine with a retooled Soundwave.

But would that truly be an MP Blaster?

william-james88 wrote:

Syclone wrote:Honestly, at this point, if it gets me an MP Blaster, I'm fine with a retooled Soundwave.

But would that truly be an MP Blaster?

No.

A factor to bear in mind is the shift to cartoon accuracy, which will impact the design of future G1 MPs. They might just decide to cut out the middle man and make "anime+" the default for G1.

As I said prior:

1)New Legs - Given Blaster Transforms differently and into a different form
2)New Head - As Soundwave and Blaster look nothing alike.
3)Torso retooling - Adjust buttons, realign the cassette door etc

Voila! MP Blaster, born from MP-13. He doesn't really need a new mold, just different legs.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:A factor to bear in mind is the shift to cartoon accuracy, which will impact the design of future G1 MPs. They might just decide to cut out the middle man and make "anime+" the default for G1.

That switch has already happened. We see it with BB 2.0, Optimus 3.0, Megs and now Hound. The + version is now about toy decos, like the MP-36+.

william-james88 wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:A factor to bear in mind is the shift to cartoon accuracy, which will impact the design of future G1 MPs. They might just decide to cut out the middle man and make "anime+" the default for G1.

That switch has already happened. We see it with BB 2.0, Optimus 3.0, Megs and now Hound. The + version is now about toy decos, like the MP-36+.

What side of the fence do you sit on that?

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:A factor to bear in mind is the shift to cartoon accuracy, which will impact the design of future G1 MPs. They might just decide to cut out the middle man and make "anime+" the default for G1.

That switch has already happened. We see it with BB 2.0, Optimus 3.0, Megs and now Hound. The + version is now about toy decos, like the MP-36+.

What side of the fence do you sit on that?

Thanks for asking. As long as it doesn't clash with everything else I own, what matters to me more is the price. So, for instance, MP 36+ clashes hard with all my other MPs, even the previous ones, so I preffer MP36 normal. As for Shockwave, while I do preffer the darker purple, neither really clash with the rest of my collection and since the lighter one is cheaper, thats the one I went for.

In general, I like toon accuracy more for that fact that it means engineering marvel rather than because of its deco.

How about you?

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:A factor to bear in mind is the shift to cartoon accuracy, which will impact the design of future G1 MPs. They might just decide to cut out the middle man and make "anime+" the default for G1.

As I said prior:

1)New Legs - Given Blaster Transforms differently and into a different form
2)New Head - As Soundwave and Blaster look nothing alike.
3)Torso retooling - Adjust buttons, realign the cassette door etc

Voila! MP Blaster, born from MP-13. He doesn't really need a new mold, just different legs.

Yeah, see I'm with you on this. I just don't see enough of a difference between the characters (in cartoons) to NEED an entirely new mold. SIGNIFICANT retooling? yes. New mold? Eeehh

Syclone wrote:Yeah, see I'm with you on this. I just don't see enough of a difference between the characters (in cartoons) to NEED an entirely new mold. SIGNIFICANT retooling? yes. New mold? Eeehh

If it needs significant retooling and more joints to be in line with the current MP releases, why not just make a new mold? Why do people need it to be a retool? If it was that easy, we would have a Blaster by now, but we are 6+ years since and we havent gotten it. I think it's time to move on, no?

william-james88 wrote:Thanks for asking. As long as it doesn't clash with everything else I own, what matters to me more is the price. So, for instance, MP 36+ clashes hard with all my other MPs, even the previous ones, so I prefer MP36 normal. As for Shockwave, while I do prefer the darker purple, neither really clash with the rest of my collection and since the lighter one is cheaper, thats the one I went for.

In general, I like toon accuracy more for that fact that it means engineering marvel rather than because of its deco.

How about you?

I'm not quite in the same boat. Beast Wars characters are only depicted in one way and that is how they are represented in MP. It reminds me of the He-Man classics collection. They had recently begun a Filmation "cartoon accurate" inspired sub-line to their collectors range. We'll use Beastman, as an example of the contrast.

Original Classics


Filmation Classics


As with Masterpiece, to me, I'd think people would want the one that looks more visually impressive and articulated. But the sales of Filmation Classics and Anime+ MP would suggest the opposite. I'd go for the one that looks better, but nostalgia is a fickle thing.

william-james88 wrote:

Syclone wrote:Yeah, see I'm with you on this. I just don't see enough of a difference between the characters (in cartoons) to NEED an entirely new mold. SIGNIFICANT retooling? yes. New mold? Eeehh

If it needs significant retooling and more joints to be in line with the current MP releases, why not just make a new mold? Why do people need it to be a retool? If it was that easy, we would have a Blaster by now, but we are 6+ years since and we haven't gotten it. I think it's time to move on, no?

You say that and meanwhile HasTak release this ^
They are sending really mixed messages of late.

Personally, I do love mold variants. To me it is the best way to visually describe how Transformers are made, without creepy, humanising reproductive elements. Seekers have this body structure, Cat Bots look like this, Comms Bots look like that. Other than the legs being thicker and his alt-mode speakers there are more similarities to the structural design of Blaster than differences to Soundwave. The engineering should look the same.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:To me it is the best way to visually describe how Transformers are made, without creepy, humanising reproductive elements. Seekers have this body structure, Cat Bots look like this, Comms Bots look like that.

The casettes are a good example though, they are all casettes and yet have different transformations. That lion casette is a new mold, no?

I highlighted that part of your reply since I do agree in the fictional sense. Travis Knight used that in the BB movie for cliffjumper and BB.

Indeed. But even the new mold cassette shares the same engineering, via alt mode, as the rest. The alt mode is in fact identical in size, shape and structural design. My rationale has always been, that some of these characters are rival pairs that should have been made with the other in mind. There shouldn't have been 34+ figures between these two.

Putting their mold variation aside for a moment and focus on the rivalry aspect. Compare them to Optimus Prime and Megatron. Within the original MP line, they were separated by FOUR figures (MP-1 to MP-5). Even the "definitive" MP-36 to MP-44 is only eight. Would fans have been happy if they were 20 or 40 figures apart, regardless of popularity?