Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:Prima's a dude.
Come again?gothsaurus wrote:Hey Sabrblade... I think you accidentally pasted one of the end-scene pics from the Dark Crystal in with all the comic pages.
Prima's a Multiversal Singularity: the same person in all worlds.F Prime wrote:Sabrblade wrote:Prima's a dude.
Maybe this Prima is from a new continuity?
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
It should be noted that while this project has been recognized by IDW Publishing and Hasbro, none of the works presented have been commissioned or solicited by either company. The stories are not official canon, except where noted. These stories are the result of Transformers enthusiasts taking the time out of their busy days to contribute to a universe they love. No one has been paid for the production of these stories.
Jack Hallows wrote:the prima in this story can't be the same one from all the other worlds for a couple reasons. the first one's obvious; here, prima's female.
F Prime wrote:Jack Hallows wrote:the prima in this story can't be the same one from all the other worlds for a couple reasons. the first one's obvious; here, prima's female.
Does a single multiversal entity need to have consistent gender among the multiverses?
Clearly, we need a multiversal government grant to seriously investigate this.
Multiversal Singularities are a unique case in which there is only one of each.Jack Hallows wrote:secondly, who says there can't be more than one transformer with the same name?
Yes.F Prime wrote:Jack Hallows wrote:the prima in this story can't be the same one from all the other worlds for a couple reasons. the first one's obvious; here, prima's female.
Does a single multiversal entity need to have consistent gender among the multiverses?
New packaging, same product.Noideaforaname wrote:Seeing how wildly varied Prima's appearances are (in fact we seem to be totally OK with this one looking near identical to Optimus), I don't see how being 'female' in a race where genders are vague at best is sacrilegious. Plus, "Prima" sounds more of a feminine name than male/androgynous.
but there already is a female 13er: Solus Prime. And she's the only female because she represents the original fembot, like how Nexus Prime is the original combiner.gothsaurus wrote:Yeah, I DO really like the notion that one of the thirteen is a female.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:Yes.F Prime wrote:Does a single multiversal entity need to have consistent gender among the multiverses?
One's gender is an important aspect of who a person is. Since these are the same persons in all worlds, the gender factor would remain constant, otherwise, they wouldn't be the same persons.F Prime wrote:Sabrblade wrote:Yes.F Prime wrote:Does a single multiversal entity need to have consistent gender among the multiverses?
As a guy with a phd in math I get a serious nerd-on when I see wave functions and quantum singularities, but I am not convinced that the TFWiki explanation of multiversal entities holds up to scrutiny...unless you ignore certain continuities.
Tornedron didn't build Unicron, Primacron did.F Prime wrote:Unicron is a multiversal entity...so, he is the same in all realities. But in some of the realities (that presented in Call of the Primitives, for example) he is far from an eternal, multiversal being. Compare that with Furman's "God of Darkness" idea and you get two very different beings. If one Unicron can be created by Tornedron and the other is an eternal god of darkness I would have no problem with a third being female. Same for Prima.
I'd rather them just say like above, that we didn't get the full extent of the story from Primacron's assistant and were just told what he knew from his perspective.F Prime wrote:I guess one could argue that Call of the Primitives was an inaccurate representation of the origin of Unicron, but that is pushing the bounds and would seem to be shoehorning cannon to fit an ideal.
Well, this notion of his being a single being did indeed come later and made retroactively. Though, that line of his doesn't completely defy his signle being status per se. I mean, while he could have very well been lying, it is indeed true that the Unicron of Galvatron's future wasn't exactly same as Unicron of 1990, having undergone different events and all. Think of it as how War Within The Fallen is very different from ROTF The Fallen (though they still maintain the same personas), yet they're still the same being. Due to their nature, they are able to contradict themselves like it's natural, yet certain regards to their personas remain the same.F Prime wrote:Also, in the comics the Unicron who sent Hook, Line, and Sinker after Galvatron explicitly claims to be a "different" Unicron than the Unicron Galvratron knew from the future. Although I would not put it past Unicron to lie, this seems to be at odds with the notion of multiversality.
Though, this mosaic right here doesn't have to do with the Aligned continuity.F Prime wrote:On the TFWiki page regarding Multiversal beings is this quote from Hasbro: "The official story of the original 13 and specifically The Fallen has not been explored in the modern continuity that Transformers War for Cybertron, Exodus, and Prime are a part of. Anything you know from past generations of the brand may or may not be factual in the new continuity. Going forward in the modern continuity there is 1 Fallen."
If anything we know may or may not be true in the new continuity it doesn't seem they are following hard-and-fast rules regarding multiversal beings.
Indeed.F Prime wrote:Hopefully my replies are coming across as genuine and not argumentative. This is a fantastically fun conversation!
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:One's gender is an important aspect of who a person is. Since these are the same persons in all worlds, the gender factor would remain constant, otherwise, they wouldn't be the same persons.F Prime wrote:Sabrblade wrote:Yes.F Prime wrote:Does a single multiversal entity need to have consistent gender among the multiverses?
As a guy with a phd in math I get a serious nerd-on when I see wave functions and quantum singularities, but I am not convinced that the TFWiki explanation of multiversal entities holds up to scrutiny...unless you ignore certain continuities.
sabrblade wrote:Tornedron didn't build Unicron, Primacron did.F Prime wrote:Unicron is a multiversal entity...so, he is the same in all realities. But in some of the realities (that presented in Call of the Primitives, for example) he is far from an eternal, multiversal being. Compare that with Furman's "God of Darkness" idea and you get two very different beings. If one Unicron can be created by Tornedron and the other is an eternal god of darkness I would have no problem with a third being female. Same for Prima.
sabrblade wrote: Though, it would not surprise me if, somewhere down the line, this contradiction is explained in some manner. Like, if Primacron only built his body, but not his lifeforce, not knowing what he was working on was really a dark god.
sabrblade wrote:Though, this mosaic right here doesn't have to do with the Aligned continuity.F Prime wrote:On the TFWiki page regarding Multiversal beings is this quote from Hasbro: "The official story of the original 13 and specifically The Fallen has not been explored in the modern continuity that Transformers War for Cybertron, Exodus, and Prime are a part of. Anything you know from past generations of the brand may or may not be factual in the new continuity. Going forward in the modern continuity there is 1 Fallen."
If anything we know may or may not be true in the new continuity it doesn't seem they are following hard-and-fast rules regarding multiversal beings.
Think of them as persons. One's gender helps define one's persona. Change that, and the persona is also changed.F Prime wrote:I don't know..I have no idea how important gender is to a multiversal robotic being.
As of now, there is no real explanation, which is why I was speaking hypothetically. Though, I wouldn't really say that his lifeforce is non-corporeal. Personality components of the G1 bots were tangible objects. Maybe Primacron could have used the one that belonged to Unicron as his first building block.F Prime wrote:I have never heard/read/found an explanation. (I mean, we all know the real explanation, this sh*t was made up after the fact, but in canon I know of nothing.) However, even if this explanation was true having your body constructed around you seems to imply that the crux of your identity is non-corporeal. I am still not convinced that we can say anything about how important gender/sex is to a non-corporeal entity.
I assumed it was a Primax one, due to the art style and G1-esque design of these characters. The reason the Aligned continuity can bend the rules of the multiverse is becuase it resides outside the known multiverse.F Prime wrote:Well, we have no idea which continuity this Mosaic falls in. I thought that was the point of the multiversal bit. If the Aligned continuity can use multiversal beings in new ways without breaking their multiversality why can't this Mosaic?
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:Think of them as persons. One's gender helps define one's persona. Change that, and the persona is also changed.F Prime wrote:I don't know..I have no idea how important gender is to a multiversal robotic being.
Sabrblade wrote:I wouldn't really say that his lifeforce is non-corporeal. Personality components of the G1 bots were tangible objects. Maybe Primacron could have used the one that belonged to Unicron as his first building block.
F Prime wrote:Well, we have no idea which continuity this Mosaic falls in. I thought that was the point of the multiversal bit. If the Aligned continuity can use multiversal beings in new ways without breaking their multiversality why can't this Mosaic?Sabrblade wrote:I assumed it was a Primax one, due to the art style and G1-esque design of these characters. The reason the Aligned continuity can bend the rules of the multiverse is becuase it resides outside the known multiverse.
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