Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

william-james88 wrote:Wow, so much hope.

william-james88 wrote:Also be weary of hope in this hobby. Hope is just undiscovered disappointment.

-Kanrabat- wrote:Anyone remember the Target exclusive Beast Hunters Cyberverse Optimus and Predaking two pack? I still own that set... Twice. One open to play, one sealed for display. It's really kick-ass.

I know the Optimus was a Thunderclash homage, but what about that Predaking?

william-james88 wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:Anyone remember the Target exclusive Beast Hunters Cyberverse Optimus and Predaking two pack? I still own that set... Twice. One open to play, one sealed for display. It's really kick-ass.

I know the Optimus was a Thunderclash homage, but what about that Predaking?

Best (but probably not the right) guess I could ever think of was RiD 2001 Megatron.

Sabrblade wrote:Best (but probably not the right) guess I could ever think of was RiD 2001 Megatron.

Now that I think of it, and keeping things topical, what about Cindersaur?

I think you might actually have nailed it, Sabrblade. I was thinking it could also be Universe Razorclaw, but he doesn't have the red. RID Megatron? Does.

Will, Cindersaur might have been done to give the Terrorcons a little buddy, and as an easy way to add another Legends-class Decepticon. If one factors Masterforce into account, he also works as a cartoon-colors Guzzle Sparkdash drone

Battle Core Optimus' scheme isn't that out there, it's like a less-monochrome version of Ultra Magnus' cab robot. What's out there is the eBay prices for CW Optimus... dear gods..

Speaking of Optimus, Evolution Optimus Prime is the least-appealing to me of the Leader-class molds in this line. He's oversize and takes away the value of having Optimus' original trailer IMO. I still plan to get him, but mainly for Orion Pax!

Well those CGI renders of PotP Inferno look nice. Pity the real thing won't be even close to that clean or shiny.

Let's see, how many Hot Spot remolds is this now? There's Onslaught (G1 and G2), Pyra Magna, UW Dolrailer and now this - missed any? I think the only other Voyager Combiner core that's been more duplicated is Silverbolt - and they're not done with HIM yet either (Hun-Grrr)...

Manterax Prime wrote:

Skritz wrote:Edit: I'd say my favorite 'wtf recolor' of Optimus in recent years has to be this guy:

Sure, I use him as Nova Prime but I have to admit that this is a very, very nice color scheme for Optimus Prime. It looks regal, almost holy.

He's my favorite to, for those same reason.
And the Star Convoy-esque head.

I like it just because it's NOT the usual Red and Blue. And because you can use him with other deluxes (Prowl, Jazz, Rook, Mirage, etc.) to make a white combiner - handy for camouflage in places like the arctic I guess...

DeathReviews wrote:Well those CGI renders of PotP Inferno look nice. Pity the real thing won't be even close to that clean or shiny.

Let's see, how many Hot Spot remolds is this now? There's Onslaught (G1 and G2), Pyra Magna, UW Dolrailer and now this - missed any?

Hasbro:
Combiner Wars Protectobot Hot Spot
Combiner Wars Onslaught
Combiner Wars Pyra Magna
Combiner Wars Generation 2 Onslaught
Combiner Wars Bludgeon
Power of the Primes Inferno

TakaraTomy:
Unite Warriors Hot Spot
Unite Warriors Onslaught
Unite Warriors Megaempress
Unite Warriors Dolrailer

DeathReviews wrote:I think the only other Voyager Combiner core that's been more duplicated is Silverbolt - and they're not done with HIM yet either (Hun-Grrr)...

The most recent (as of this typing) episode of the Seibertron.com Twincast Podcast has confirmed Hun-Gurrr to not be another use of the Silverbolt mold after all. It borrows some transformation ideas from Silverbolt, but is 100% its own unique mold.

Rated X wrote:Why so much? Four $15-20 figures and a $30 torso figure shouldnt be more than $110 wtf???? Better be G2 deco

Toywiz are notorious for price gouging.

DeathReviews, you forgot Bludgeon as far as altered versions of the mold go. And that's just major mold variants. If you count redecoes among the uses there's also been Megaempress and CW G2 Onslaught.

CW Silverbolt.. Altered versions of the mold would be Cyclonus, Hasbro Scattershot, Takara Scattershot, and Sky Lynx. Recolors add in G2 Silverbolt and UW Cyclonus if you count him separately.

Both of them are rivaling the original Combaticon molds as far as recolored releases go. Which considering that between G1 Bruticus, Battle Gaia, G2 Bruticus, Car Robots Baldigus, RiD Ruination, Urban Camo Ruination, and Desert Camo Ruination those have been done 7 times.. That's saying something.

Sabrblade wrote:It borrows some transformation ideas from Silverbolt, but is 100% its own unique mold.

Thats the same as these toys, which many fans do still consider retools.





Something having 100% different parts does not mean it was made from scratch. Quite the opposite, we now have confirmation that Hun Gurr is based on Silverbolt's engineering and can be considered a retool according to the toy industry (where a toy is either made from scratch or not).

Uh,no. From what I've read, according to the toy industry or at the very least HasTak retool has a stricter definition than what fans use; it only refers to permanent mold changes as opposed to alternate parts. Super Ginrai would seem to be a true retool by that definition, as would the RiD Commandos compared to the original G1 combaticons.

william-james88 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:It borrows some transformation ideas from Silverbolt, but is 100% its own unique mold.

Thats the same as these toys, which many fans do still consider retools.

Pics

Something having 100% different parts does not mean it was made from scratch. Quite the opposite, we now have confirmation that Hun Gurr is based on Silverbolt's engineering and can be considered a retool according to the toy industry (where a toy is either made from scratch or not).

And how are those cases different from the likes of G2 Smokescreen, Energon Starscream, 2010 Terradive, and FOC Starscream?

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Uh,no. From what I've read, according to the toy industry or at the very least HasTak retool has a stricter definition than what fans use; it only refers to permanent mold changes as opposed to alternate parts. Super Ginrai would seem to be a true retool by that definition, as would the RiD Commandos compared to the original G1 combaticons.

Let me ask you this question, from all we know, was Hun Gur made from scratch?

Yes , or no?

william-james88 wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Uh,no. From what I've read, according to the toy industry or at the very least HasTak retool has a stricter definition than what fans use; it only refers to permanent mold changes as opposed to alternate parts. Super Ginrai would seem to be a true retool by that definition, as would the RiD Commandos compared to the original G1 combaticons.

Let me ask you this question, from all we know, was Hun Gur made from scratch?

Yes , or no?

Are ideas tangible?

Griffin from Ozformers has posted several images on Facebook from the Australian Toy, Hobby and Licensing Fair, which is taking place at the Melbourne Exhibition Centre. These pictures, taken by Simon Chambers, show the three newly (officially) revealed toys from the Power of the Primes line when it comes to the voyager and legends classes. These three are all redecos with new heads and include Outback, Cindersaur and Inferno which are based on the previous Brawn, Slash and Hot Spot molds respectively.

While we already had renders of these toys, now we can see how the finished products will look like. Do these images change your minds on what you had seen previously? Will you be getting all of them?
Let us know!



























Griffin stated that no one converted Inferno into his combined mode, but we do have artwork showing his torso mode for those interested.

william-james88 wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Uh,no. From what I've read, according to the toy industry or at the very least HasTak retool has a stricter definition than what fans use; it only refers to permanent mold changes as opposed to alternate parts. Super Ginrai would seem to be a true retool by that definition, as would the RiD Commandos compared to the original G1 combaticons.

Let me ask you this question, from all we know, was Hun Gur made from scratch?

Yes , or no?

Here's CW Cyclonus, the 'Hun-Grr' configuration. All that's really missing are the heads attached to the feet and the swiveling forelegs added to the robot 'hips'. Looks like Silverbolt to me...

william-james88 wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Uh,no. From what I've read, according to the toy industry or at the very least HasTak retool has a stricter definition than what fans use; it only refers to permanent mold changes as opposed to alternate parts. Super Ginrai would seem to be a true retool by that definition, as would the RiD Commandos compared to the original G1 combaticons.

Let me ask you this question, from all we know, was Hun Gur made from scratch?

Yes , or no?

Yes. He shares engineering with Silverbolt, certainly. But shared engineering =/= retool. Retool = sharing some of the actual toolings. And from the looks of it, Hun-Grr uses a brand-new set of molds.

If you start equating designed from scratch with made from scratch and calling figures retools just because of shared engineering, then by that logic Robot Masters BW Megatron for example is a retool of the Ultra-class BW Megatron. Or Legends-class Leobreaker is a retool of the Voyager-class one. Or certain CHUG figures are "retools" of the G1 toys. Which is a ridiculous notion, yet as far as I can make out that's your logic.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote: Which is a ridiculous notion, yet as far as I can make out that's your logic.

It is not my logic, it is the only definition we have on the matter:

A Retool is a toy that has been created by modifying an existing mold to give it new features. This enables companies to create new toys without producing an entirely new mold from scratch.

With computer aided drawings, the meaning of a mold has changed. Designers can go back to a technical drawing and change it. It is changing the mold digitally, which means it can most definitely still be seen as retooling elements.

Hasbro has just confirmed that this toy is not made from scratch, so it is not a fully new toy.

DeathReviews wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Uh,no. From what I've read, according to the toy industry or at the very least HasTak retool has a stricter definition than what fans use; it only refers to permanent mold changes as opposed to alternate parts. Super Ginrai would seem to be a true retool by that definition, as would the RiD Commandos compared to the original G1 combaticons.

Let me ask you this question, from all we know, was Hun Gur made from scratch?

Yes , or no?

Here's CW Cyclonus, the 'Hun-Grr' configuration. All that's really missing are the heads attached to the feet and the swiveling forelegs added to the robot 'hips'. Looks like Silverbolt to me...

Anyone care to try that with a different toy altogether? Any figure with proper arm and leg articulation will do. Hell, Legends Scourge did just that

Let's just all agree that:

1) Hun-Gurrr shares no parts with Silverbolt
2) Hun-Gurrr's Torso Mode's transformation is similar to, if not based on, but not exact match to Silverbolt's

Whether or not it qualifies to be called a retool shouldn't really matter as long as both points are at least acknowledged.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Let's just all agree that:

1) Hun-Gurrr shares no parts with Silverbolt
2) Hun-Gurrr's Torso Mode's transformation is similar to, if not based on, but not exact match to Silverbolt's
.

I have always agreed with that. Though I do believe that he is based on the silver bolt mold. And Hasbro did confirm that at Toy fair, according to TFW.

There are design elements that match up simply perfectly, like the robot mode forearms, like they took the existing design and worked around it very closely.

Edit: the actual quote was "uses silver bolt tech", so basically what we've have been saying all along just finally confirmed.

william-james88 wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Let's just all agree that:

1) Hun-Gurrr shares no parts with Silverbolt
2) Hun-Gurrr's Torso Mode's transformation is similar to, if not based on, but not exact match to Silverbolt's
.

I have always agreed with that. Though I do believe that he is based on the silver bolt mold. And Hasbro did confirm that at Toy fair, according to TFW.

There are design elements that match up simply perfectly, like the robot mode forearms, like they took the existing design and worked around it very closely.

I agree that Silverbolt's engineering was used as a starting point, that's all there is really, with all parts being new designs, but that remains a sticking point for most it seems. A lot of figures have taken cues or even exact engineering from other releases, Hun-Gurrr falls well within that group. I will freely admit that had he a good amount of part designs in common with Silverbolt, he'd have been bumped up to part sharing, among the likes of Blurr & Chromedome, or Slag & Sludge

Speaking of Hun-Gurrr:



Is that his Enigma and feet I spy with Inferno?

Why does this retool debate keep popping up? We all agree on the facts, it’s just what you want to call a retool, which really should be ‘to each his own’.

Anyone mind telling me where I’ve seen Inferno’s packaging art chestplate before? Is it MtMtE Grapple?

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Let's just all agree that:

1) Hun-Gurrr shares no parts with Silverbolt
2) Hun-Gurrr's Torso Mode's transformation is similar to, if not based on, but not exact match to Silverbolt's
.

I have always agreed with that. Though I do believe that he is based on the silver bolt mold. And Hasbro did confirm that at Toy fair, according to TFW.

There are design elements that match up simply perfectly, like the robot mode forearms, like they took the existing design and worked around it very closely.

I agree that Silverbolt's engineering was used as a starting point, that's all there is really, with all parts being new designs, but that remains a sticking point for most it seems. A lot of figures have taken cues or even exact engineering from other releases, Hun-Gurrr falls well within that group. I will freely admit that had he a good amount of part designs in common with Silverbolt, he'd have been bumped up to part sharing, among the likes of Blurr & Chromedome, or Slag & Sludge

Speaking of Hun-Gurrr:



Is that his Enigma and feet I spy with Inferno?

Yeah, it looks like the same molds for "feet" Prime armor and the enigma (but not with pinkish colors!), no doubt. I finally transformed Hun-Gurrr -- he looks pretty cool. But so did the original....but as my first incarnation of the character, I'm happy.

MagicDeath wrote:Why does this retool debate keep popping up? We all agree on the facts, it’s just what you want to call a retool, which really should be ‘to each his own’.

AMEN!

Anyone mind telling me where I’ve seen Inferno’s packaging art chestplate before? Is it MtMtE Grapple?

While the toy itself is based on Hot Spot, the art is based on his retool Onslaught.