The Energon Pub

Sabrblade wrote:

RAR wrote:I don't really see Devastator as a rival to Omega Supreme - as the vast number of times I've seen Devastator he's usually on his own.

That's because Devastator came first. He got more exposure on his own before Omega came along. And when he did, the cartoon did a whole episode devoted to the personal antagonism between Omega and Devastator in "The Secret of Omega Supreme".

Of the few episodes I distinctly remember, that would be one of them. It's a quality episode that ties their rivalry down as deep as their own backstories.

Terrsolpix wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

RAR wrote:I don't really see Devastator as a rival to Omega Supreme - as the vast number of times I've seen Devastator he's usually on his own.

That's because Devastator came first. He got more exposure on his own before Omega came along. And when he did, the cartoon did a whole episode devoted to the personal antagonism between Omega and Devastator in "The Secret of Omega Supreme".

Of the few episodes I distinctly remember, that would be one of them. It's a quality episode that ties their rivalry down as deep as their own backstories.

It was also one of far too many contradicting backstories for the Constructicons in the G1 cartoon.

DigitalBrave3 wrote:

Terrsolpix wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

RAR wrote:I don't really see Devastator as a rival to Omega Supreme - as the vast number of times I've seen Devastator he's usually on his own.

That's because Devastator came first. He got more exposure on his own before Omega came along. And when he did, the cartoon did a whole episode devoted to the personal antagonism between Omega and Devastator in "The Secret of Omega Supreme".

Of the few episodes I distinctly remember, that would be one of them. It's a quality episode that ties their rivalry down as deep as their own backstories.

It was also one of far too many contradicting backstories for the Constructicons in the G1 cartoon.

Sh sh sh sh....... we don't talk about that.

Emerje wrote:While I certainly would prefer Scorponok first I just don't see him in Power of the Primes. He's a Headmaster which fits the Titans Return style better and makes him an ideal centerpiece for when the TR-style figures return in the future as we were told they would. Since we aren't getting Titan Masters in PotP it wouldn't make sense to have Scorponok there with a Titan Master head.

G1 Omega Supreme doesn't work with a Titan Master head since his head turns into the tank turret and his face is obscured under the glass making it a little pointless to stick a tiny TM inside that wouldn't be big enough to make a proper face anyway. More believable would be sticking a Prime Master inside his chest just like Predaking or other places like the smaller figures do.

Emerje

One flaw with your argument, pertaining to the suitability of omega to PotP. As Predaking is the 2018 titan, he is the PotP titan, and so far the indication from the leaks is that PotP (consisting of 4 waves) is only going to last through to the end of 2018.
With this in mind regardless of whether Omega or Scorpy come first, neither of them will be associated with PotP (that we are presently aware of), so the argument of suitability to the PotP line in null and void.

Ummm, where did you see that the leaks said that it would only last through the end of 2018 as 4 waves? The leaks just showcased a certain number of waves.

Hasbro has already said that there are 12 Primes, thus 12 Prime Masters. The leaks if anything prove that the Prime Master class will be a minimum of 5 waves, since we have never had a 5 figure wave for that size class (which your theory hinges on). And it was never specified what those dates on them actually mean.

Let's not speak with such finality with phrases like "so the argument of suitability to the PotP line in null and void" when we know pretty much nothing about the line just yet. While what you say might end up being true, we won't know much until Hascon, and even then who is to say how much will be said.

I like the one that infers they are a caste on Cybertron (bit like Rescue Bots were) and so there is potentially thousands of them rather than a random much smaller number.

I do sometimes think it might be really interesting for Hasbro to one day make some sort of Devastator toy repaint that is a sort of Joint homage to ROTF & Diaclone - but instead of the usual names they are named after the other team members that have popped up over the years.

So the likes of Blight, Scrapmetal, Steamhammer, Duststorm, Sledge or Hightower as a Constructicon Maximus like version of Devastator (not in body but in concept).

I'd like that it would be useful or interesting. The same idea might be really interesting with the Powercore combiner Dinobots if they were made as full robots and a combiner.

I don't know if the Dinobots are structured in such as way that they could be remoulded in any meaningful way though - making them into seacons is theoretically possible I suppose. But it would require so many changes one might as well consider all new moulds as being more suitable.

But I do keep wondering about the Kreon Combiners as proper Transformers.

mordhelm wrote:Ummm, where did you see that the leaks said that it would only last through the end of 2018 as 4 waves? The leaks just showcased a certain number of waves.

Hasbro has already said that there are 12 Primes, thus 12 Prime Masters. The leaks if anything prove that the Prime Master class will be a minimum of 5 waves, since we have never had a 5 figure wave for that size class (which your theory hinges on). And it was never specified what those dates on them actually mean.

Let's not speak with such finality with phrases like "so the argument of suitability to the PotP line in null and void" when we know pretty much nothing about the line just yet. While what you say might end up being true, we won't know much until Hascon, and even then who is to say how much will be said.

Please re-read my response. I never (creating a defined statement) said that is was only 4 waves, but that was what it appears to be so far, based on what we've seen and extrapolating based on how previous lines have panned out.

But lets examine it further.
The leak showed only 3 waves a Legends (wave 3 being 2 figures, based on imagary used bith repaints), 3 waves of Leaders (Wave 2 at best is a repaint of Wave 1) and 3 waves of Voyagers (Wave 3 comprising of a wave 1 re-release and a CW repaint), 3 waves of Prime Masters (yielding 8/12 primes) and 4 waves of deluxes (of which wave 4 is comprised of 3 re-release and 1 new figure - commonly indicative of a final wave).

Fine, none us know if we'll get 4 or 5 or 6 waves, but even if we do get 6, that the means the line terminates mid 2019, so that years titan may align closer what ever gimmick that line may have (using Fort Max, a Titan Master Titan released in 2016, which covered both CW and TR).

Who's to say that there isn't already another tian planned for 2019 that excludes Omega and Scorpinok?

1. This is all speculation, which imo is great fun, but no reason for heated discussion.
2. Scorponok.
3. Keep Calm and Carry on Roll Out.

ThunderThruster wrote:But lets examine it further.
The leak showed only 3 waves a Legends (wave 3 being 2 figures, based on imagary used bith repaints), 3 waves of Leaders (Wave 2 at best is a repaint of Wave 1) and 3 waves of Voyagers (Wave 3 comprising of a wave 1 re-release and a CW repaint), 3 waves of Prime Masters (yielding 8/12 primes) and 4 waves of deluxes (of which wave 4 is comprised of 3 re-release and 1 new figure - commonly indicative of a final wave).

Fine, none us know if we'll get 4 or 5 or 6 waves, but even if we do get 6, that the means the line terminates mid 2019, so that years titan may align closer what ever gimmick that line may have (using Fort Max, a Titan Master Titan released in 2016, which covered both CW and TR).

Who's to say that there isn't already another titan planned for 2019 that excludes Omega and Scorpinok?

A couple points to add or elaborate on:
First, we have only 1 recent example of the final wave of a line having only 1 new figure, so that is hardly indicative of how waves end, at least for the Generations line (I don't collect RID or movie lines, so I'm not sure on those, there could be other examples there). CW ended with 5 new figures.

For the next titan after Predaking, it does't matter if PotP is 4, 5 or 6 waves. No matter what the 2019 Titan will be in the next line. If PotP is starting in Q1 of 2018, then 4 waves would end in Q4 2018, while 6 waves would end in Q2 2019. The titans come out in the Q3 wave each year.

I don't think you can draw too much on the repaints versus new figures and which waves they are located in. I believe Hasbro learned something this past Chrsitmas where distribution of the generations line was a mess everywhere. I think they are intentionally making the Q4 wave for each year be full of mostly re-issued figures. This way, they can make extra figures during each of their initial waves/runs and hold them for Q4 so that there is plenty of stock for Christmas, as well as a chance for popular figures that might have been missed to be purchased again. So wave 4 of PotP having mostly re-issued figures actually matches up with my theory here. The Q4 wave needs to be easy to shove out the door, so they will be mostly repaints.

Finally, I believe there will be 6 waves for PotP. Why? because combining seems to be the gimmick for the deluxes and voyagers, but waves 1-4 give us 2-3 incomplete combiners.

I didn't think we were having a heated discussion. Just points and counterpoints.

I still think that -- from my perspective -- we will see a minimum of 5 waves.

At this point I think Hasbro will try to avoid releasing incomplete combiners (Torso repaints not withstanding). Therefore:

Starscream has Dreadwind and Blackwing (admittedly I like the name Blackwing more, maybe because it furthers it from Darkwing Duck, heh). Missing 2 limbs.

Wave 1:
Slag, Swoop, Dreadwind, Jazz
Complete combiners: none
Combiners Started: Seeker (Starscream), ? Autobot Combiner (Jazz)

Wave 2:
Snarl, Sludge, Blackwing, Rippersnapper, Moonracer
Complete Combiners: Dinobot
Combiners Started: Abominus, Seeker (Starscream), Inferno Combiner, Elita 1 combiner

Wave 3:
Cutthroat, Blot, Sinnertwin, Jazz
Complete Combiners: Abominus, Dinobot
Combiners Started: Inferno Combiner, Elita 1 combiner, Seeker (Starscream)

Wave 4:
Novastar, Blackwing, Slag, Rippersnapper
Complete Combiners: Abominus, Dinobot
Combiners Started: Inferno Combiner (Jazz), Elita 1 combiner (Moonracer, Novastar), Starscream combiner (Dreadwind, Blackwing)

What's missing?

Well, if we go by what Firestormer was supposed to be, I expect to see Wave 5 and 6 filled out with:

Inferno Combiner: Bluestreak, Ratchet, Hoist, Sideswipe. One of these will likely be not produced, I am betting on Bluestreak or Ratchet.

Elita One Combiner: Greenlight, Lancer.

Starscream Combiner: This one is tough? Maybe 2 coneheads from the Takara UW Thrust mold?

I think the Seacons are unlikely except as a Boxset, unless PotP is stretched to be an 8 wave cap to the trilogy.

In CW, with the general retail releases (thus you cannot include the special releases of Groove, Wildrider, and Slingshot) Hasbro has not yet released an incomplete set of limbs. The only thing I can think as a possibility that could change things up, is that either Elita 1 or Inferno is a spare torso. This would mean we still need 1 bot and 2 cons to round out the teams. Again, in CW we had 6 scramble style combiners in general release, so having a minimum of 4 in this line makes sense.

Hasbro completing well-established sub-groups (Dinobots, Terrorcons) is pretty much a given, but I wouldn't be so sure about the rest (Autobot Cars, Seekers, Female Autobots), unless Hasbro actually acknowledges the gimmick instead of "hiding" it by not saying anything. Not saying they won't do it, just throwing the possibility out there.

On the side, with the Terrorcons, finally we can have a counterpart to CW versions of Comperian and Autobot Super Scramble: Abomenaticus and Decepticon Super Scramble!

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Hasbro completing well-established sub-groups (Dinobots, Terrorcons) is pretty much a given, but I wouldn't be so sure about the rest (Autobot Cars, Seekers, Female Autobots), unless Hasbro actually acknowledges the gimmick instead of "hiding" it by not saying anything. Not saying they won't do it, just throwing the possibility out there.

On the side, with the Terrorcons, finally we can have a counterpart to CW versions of Comperian and Autobot Super Scramble: Abomenaticus and Decepticon Super Scramble!

Oh god yes, I didn't even realise that! Finally, the true Combiners are here!

Kurona wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Hasbro completing well-established sub-groups (Dinobots, Terrorcons) is pretty much a given, but I wouldn't be so sure about the rest (Autobot Cars, Seekers, Female Autobots), unless Hasbro actually acknowledges the gimmick instead of "hiding" it by not saying anything. Not saying they won't do it, just throwing the possibility out there.

On the side, with the Terrorcons, finally we can have a counterpart to CW versions of Comperian and Autobot Super Scramble: Abomenaticus and Decepticon Super Scramble!

Oh god yes, I didn't even realise that! Finally, the true Combiners are here!

"Decepticon Bar Mitzvah! Boys becoming men, men becoming nose monsters."

You didn't, TFWiki...Did you?

If the above pic is any indication of what the 2019 (?) Kids line is gonna be like then If they fell like making a "Generations" Titan then perhaps Scorponok is your bot for 2019 and then Omega Supreme (who is more tied to the classic season One cast) would likely fit in fine with a G1ish looking cartoon.

The only slight fear there is they might go cheap - like that Stomp & Chomp Grimlock toy if it's in a explicitly kids line - but if the Busy Book characters are an indication of the cast then it might be a show with more Collector interest than RID gets - maybe even up to Transformers Prime Levels. I hope the show is more mature than RID and less mature than Prime - not that I dislike Prime (it's my second fav show) - but it was bordering on depressing at times.

But I can see Omega fitting these folks - and actually on the subject of the Busy Book toys - they look like they'd be great with any current base bot too.

Black Hat wrote:

Kurona wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Hasbro completing well-established sub-groups (Dinobots, Terrorcons) is pretty much a given, but I wouldn't be so sure about the rest (Autobot Cars, Seekers, Female Autobots), unless Hasbro actually acknowledges the gimmick instead of "hiding" it by not saying anything. Not saying they won't do it, just throwing the possibility out there.

On the side, with the Terrorcons, finally we can have a counterpart to CW versions of Comperian and Autobot Super Scramble: Abomenaticus and Decepticon Super Scramble!

Oh god yes, I didn't even realise that! Finally, the true Combiners are here!

"Decepticon Bar Mitzvah! Boys becoming men, men becoming nose monsters."

You didn't, TFWiki...Did you?

So Combiners are actually using Black Energon Magic?

If anyone is misleading to the Dinobots, Dinobot Slash is actually Snarl

Albatross250 wrote:If anyone is misleading to the Dinobots, Dinobot Slash is actually Snarl

Nope, Snarl is confirmed to still be himself. Slash is a new Dinobot who turns into a raptor.

I'm so pumped for Power of Primes it's going to be interesting.

So I found [EDIT] an image online of Starscream that says "Unique Enigma" as one of the features [END EDIT]
And the words "Unique Enigma" really caught my eye. I'm started to sway towards the "Starscream is a combiner torso" side.

We're not meant to post pics of those leaks, only talk about them.

But at this point, i don't think it surprises anyone if he is revealed to be a combiner torso.

Fixed it.

Well I was thinking about that too. They revealed Starscream in person at SDCC, so I think it's ok, but let's definatly be careful we don't post things that weren't.
At least until we see what HasCon has in store.

Decepticon Stryker wrote:I'm started to sway towards the "Starscream is a combiner torso" side.

Really, there's people who still didn't believe it ?

I don't even understand how it can be denied. Not even need the leaks, the SDCC pictures were clear. It was acted 30 min after the first pics.

Real quesiton : why you didn't want to believe it before ?

Cobotron wrote:Well I was thinking about that too. They revealed Starscream in person at SDCC, so I think it's ok, but let's definatly be careful we don't post things that weren't.
At least until we see what HasCon has in store.

10 more days woo hoo...(not going of course but cant wait to see more official pictures form this line...)

Also as for Voyager Starscream...You all know I more than anyone want the Combiners to continue in full force...I'm 90% convinced at this time...but to me personally I guess I was just not seeing what others saw in the SDCC pics. If there are combiner ports they just weren't hit-you-over-the-head obvious to me. But then again I've always lowered my expectations so that when good things happen, they seem better...

ExciKaiser wrote:

Decepticon Stryker wrote:I'm started to sway towards the "Starscream is a combiner torso" side.

Really, there's people who still didn't believe it ?

I don't even understand how it can be denied. Not even need the leaks, the SDCC pictures were clear.

Real quesiton : why you didn't want to believe it before ?

For the longest time I thought it was crappy design that resulted in the big feet and that the massive hands were just for the Prime Master gimmick. But slowly, I started looking at the pictures very closely.... And there is definitely something combiner-y about him. Plus the fact that the other releases seem to be "teams" (Dinobots,Female Autobots, Terrorcons) also encouraged me to switch sides. But I didn't switch fully until I saw "Unique Enigma" listed under his features. That has to be Combiner related. But I will find it funny if he's not a combiner and I switched sides for no reason. But this can't be a coincidence, unless Hasbro is now trolling us.

Edit: Speaking of Hascon, I found out that I could actually buy the three day pass, and then I realized that the event tickets weren't the issue, it would be the plane tickets.