The Energon Pub

william-james88 wrote:In case people don't know where to go, could you show us all real quick how to find the info on this site for the minicons?

Also, could it because Robots in Disguise is within the Prime section and not on its own?

Man, I feel dumb now for that earlier post. Might be a bug.

More later, but for now, here's RiD's database of characters: http://www.seibertron.com/database/seri ... ies_id=221

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

Megatron Wolf wrote:I dont understand why hasbro does this, why go through the trouble of designing a feature then not include it in the instructions?

Possibly for kids to figure out their own thing, to promote imagination.

Or Hasbro just plain forgot about it, or didn't care about in the first place. Wouldn't be the first time this happened, look at the Titan Master Class' weapon modes.

The titan master class weapon modes are very well documented in the instructions. A better example would be the extra build a figure energon figures made from the clear platic parts of the first 2 waves of minicons.

william-james88 wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

Megatron Wolf wrote:I dont understand why hasbro does this, why go through the trouble of designing a feature then not include it in the instructions?

Possibly for kids to figure out their own thing, to promote imagination.

Or Hasbro just plain forgot about it, or didn't care about in the first place. Wouldn't be the first time this happened, look at the Titan Master Class' weapon modes.

The titan master class weapon modes are very well documented in the instructions. A better example would be the extra build a figure energon figures made from the clear platic parts of the first 2 waves of minicons.

And CW Bombshell's """"weapon"""" mode.

Let's not forget Takara doesn't want you to know Powerglide, Runabout, Overdrive and Shockwave can be part of certain Unite Warriors sets

I've talked about it in my videos, and I plan to REALLY talk about it in my Starscream video, but one of the gimmicks from RID is simplified transformations, that can fit on the back of the card, so parents can look and see how hard it is to transform the figure. The other gimmick is the mobile game. The end result is that ALL the directions have to fit in a relatively small space, on the upper left section of the card, causing steps to be combined or omitted entirely, due to the mobile game requiring instructions and warning being printed in multiple languages.

chuckdawg1999 wrote:I've talked about it in my videos, and I plan to REALLY talk about it in my Starscream video, but one of the gimmicks from RID is simplified transformations, that can fit on the back of the card

Simplified transformations, or simplified instructions? Because the warrior toys have more complex transformations than any CW toy.

william-james88 wrote:

chuckdawg1999 wrote:I've talked about it in my videos, and I plan to REALLY talk about it in my Starscream video, but one of the gimmicks from RID is simplified transformations, that can fit on the back of the card

Simplified transformations, or simplified instructions? Because the warrior toys have more complex transformations than any CW toy.

As advertised by Hasbro the RID line features simplified Transformations for younger fans, the end result is instructions that have to fit, in a predetermined space on the back of the card. More often than not steps are combined or omitted outright. Some Warrior toys are more complex than a CW deluxe.

Well, the CW deluxes by definition have to be simplified. They need to pull off four modes, two of which have to fit into an exact height - and it's not like normal deluxes where the robot modes vaguely need to be the same size, the leg modes literally have to be the exact same height or else the whole combiner falls down. Combiners are a gimmick that get in the way of a figure being as complex as it could be; comparing figures that can combine to figures that just have to turn from a vehicle/beast mode to a robot mode is not a fair comparison. At least try and compare them to Thrilling 30 or Titans Return.

chuckdawg1999 wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

chuckdawg1999 wrote:I've talked about it in my videos, and I plan to REALLY talk about it in my Starscream video, but one of the gimmicks from RID is simplified transformations, that can fit on the back of the card

Simplified transformations, or simplified instructions? Because the warrior toys have more complex transformations than any CW toy.

As advertised by Hasbro the RID line features simplified Transformations for younger fans, the end result is instructions that have to fit, in a predetermined space on the back of the card. More often than not steps are combined or omitted outright. Some Warrior toys are more complex than a CW deluxe.

I for one am very glad that the simplification was just marketting speech but that the toys ended up being as complex as before. To be honest, the only toys that I feel suffered from wanting to simplify things were the AOE Leaders and Gen Leader Megatron who is far too simple for such a big and expensive toy. But yeah, I get what you are saying now. The toys arent simpler, but since they were advertized as such, they dont want to underdeliver. Too bad

PS: here was the actual blurb

Each TRANSFORMERS: ROBOTS IN DISGUISE WARRIORS figure features a character from the all new animated series, TRANSFORMERS: ROBOTS IN DISGUISE, coming to Cartoon Network in 2015. Warrior figures feature classic puzzle play for fans that want the traditional TRANSFORMERS experience. These detailed figures are great for collectors and kids as
they convert from robot to vehicle in 10 steps or less and come with a unique weapon accessory. High articulation means more action play, as fans can pose their figures and play out their favorite battles from the new animated series with GRIMLOCK, BUMBLEBEE, STEELJAW, and STRONGARM. Each sold separately. Take the action to your mobile device.
Download the TRANSFORMERS: ROBOTS IN DISGUISE app to your digital device, then scan the shield to unlock a character or weapons or more!

Kurona wrote:Well, the CW deluxes by definition have to be simplified. They need to pull off four modes, two of which have to fit into an exact height - and it's not like normal deluxes where the robot modes vaguely need to be the same size, the leg modes literally have to be the exact same height or else the whole combiner falls down. Combiners are a gimmick that get in the way of a figure being as complex as it could be; comparing figures that can combine to figures that just have to turn from a vehicle/beast mode to a robot mode is not a fair comparison. At least try and compare them to Thrilling 30 or Titans Return.

Bot CW Dead End and TR Skullsmasher take about 10 steps to transform. Warrior Class Quillfire takes 15 actual steps to transform (when counting each action as a step), making him more complex than any deluxe in the gen line for the past year. Both Gen Tankor and Jihaxus took 9 steps to transform.

With no exageration, the RID warriors are as complex, if not more complex, than any deluxe TF in recent memory.

If I put my think like Hasbro head on - I'd say Hasbro see Quillfire as having less than 10 steps. with out checking the actual instructions - excluding the weapon storage it seems like 9 steps (in Hasbro terms).

But the good thing about him is he's not to much a pest to Transform - so he's actually on of my principle GO TO fiddle-formers in recent months for that reason.


One fun observation about Quillfire is if you jam his spare quill in that gap near his rear window - it looks like he's carrying a surfboard.

Kurona wrote:Well, the CW deluxes by definition have to be simplified. They need to pull off four modes, two of which have to fit into an exact height - and it's not like normal deluxes where the robot modes vaguely need to be the same size, the leg modes literally have to be the exact same height or else the whole combiner falls down. Combiners are a gimmick that get in the way of a figure being as complex as it could be; comparing figures that can combine to figures that just have to turn from a vehicle/beast mode to a robot mode is not a fair comparison. At least try and compare them to Thrilling 30 or Titans Return.

I disagree. I think making them simpler makes it easier to pull off, but not a necessity of being a combiner. I'd say it's a natural expectation for a figure that has to pull off four modes to be a more complex figure than one that turns from one thing to another. There are a number of ways that the current crop of CW figures could have been more complex without effecting the height or length of the limbs. Like adding a locking mechanism to Brawl's torso or find a way to make the arms on the jets less obvious in jet mode or give the cars feet or bring back wrists.

Let's not make excuses for Hasbro here; the CW figures are simpler to cut costs and nothing more. Things haven't been the same since the end of Universe started simplifying figures noticeably and the start of Generations when the entire line shrunk, and then more recently when paint apps have been at a low even within TR. All while raising the MSRP.

Emerje

Emerje wrote:

Kurona wrote:Well, the CW deluxes by definition have to be simplified. They need to pull off four modes, two of which have to fit into an exact height - and it's not like normal deluxes where the robot modes vaguely need to be the same size, the leg modes literally have to be the exact same height or else the whole combiner falls down. Combiners are a gimmick that get in the way of a figure being as complex as it could be; comparing figures that can combine to figures that just have to turn from a vehicle/beast mode to a robot mode is not a fair comparison. At least try and compare them to Thrilling 30 or Titans Return.

I disagree. I think making them simpler makes it easier to pull off, but not a necessity of being a combiner. I'd say it's a natural expectation for a figure that has to pull off four modes to be a more complex figure than one that turns from one thing to another. There are a number of ways that the current crop of CW figures could have been more complex without effecting the height or length of the limbs. Like adding a locking mechanism to Brawl's torso or find a way to make the arms on the jets less obvious in jet mode or give the cars feet or bring back wrists.

Let's not make excuses for Hasbro here; the CW figures are simpler to cut costs and nothing more. Things haven't been the same since the end of Universe started simplifying figures noticeably and the start of Generations when the entire line shrunk, and then more recently when paint apps have been at a low even within TR. All while raising the MSRP.

Emerje

I'm not saying that an added gimmick necessitates simplicity; only that a gimmick no matter what it is will be intrusive to the gimmick's design. Due to the necessity to incorporate the gimmick, it takes away from what the figure might have been on it's own. If Brawl didn't have to become a leg and an arm, he very likely would have been a better individual figure.

Kurona wrote:I'm not saying that an added gimmick necessitates simplicity; only that a gimmick no matter what it is will be intrusive to the gimmick's design. Due to the necessity to incorporate the gimmick, it takes away from what the figure might have been on it's own.

I must respectfully disagree with the notion that all gimmicks are intrusive. The best counterexample to this that I can think of is Voyager class Cybertron Defense Scattorshot from the Cybertron line. That figure has an impressive 12 points of articulation, yet also has a very simplistic transformation of a mere 6 steps. And his Cyber Key gimmick is restricted only to the missile pods on his arms which do not hinder either his articulation or his transformation in any way, and actually adds additional playability to his robot and vehicle modes. What's more is that the missile pods are arguably his most distinguished feature, so even if he didn't have a Cyber Key gimmick I can imagine people would still expect him to have those arm-mounted missile pods anyway since his design pretty much tells us that he's the "missile pod arm guy" much like how G1 Soundwave was the "cassette tape chest guy". That CD Scattorshot toy is a wonderful action figure all on its own, regardless of its gimmick.

Kurona wrote:I'm not saying that an added gimmick necessitates simplicity; only that a gimmick no matter what it is will be intrusive to the gimmick's design. Due to the necessity to incorporate the gimmick, it takes away from what the figure might have been on it's own. If Brawl didn't have to become a leg and an arm, he very likely would have been a better individual figure.

The joint in the chests are out of necessity, but that's really it. Any of the figures could have been improved in ways that would have made for better figures, but weren't. Brawl could have had a lock in his torso that swings down in front to both keep it in place and give him an actual abdomen. Some of the figures don't have jointed feet for no real reason while others did. The Hound mold could have had a better alt mode if it had better arms that could hide the hands. There's a bunch of things that could have been fixed or improved if they were willing to make them just a little more complex, much of it not even changing the transformations.

Emerje

Yes Hound is a good example - rotating wrists would have helped a lot there in hiding the hands. Some CW toys do have ankle tilts though which is nice.

This really isn't the place to be discussing this but I wonder if CW toys are compromising the toy less than the Energon Autobots did with their toys?

So to move the topic back on to RID while keeping the spirit of the conversation alive I will note that there is perhaps an argument to be made that something like 3-Step Changer Grimlock could have had some knee joints in the dinosaur mode and some movable distinct hands with out compromising the simplicity of the Transformation.

I was actually thinking about this the other day when I was coming home from having bought said Grimlock at a Carbootsale and what entered my head was G2 - that was an era where you had reasonable levels of Articulation on many toys but also Transformation that typically wouldn't be taxing even for younger kids.

So what is wrong with some thing like the Laser Rods / Illuminators these days the kids would still have no issues with them but they are still in theory at least a good action figure too (QC & rubber band hips aside).

Universe Cyclonus isn't terribly complex toy but he's pretty well regarded anyway. Universe Hound is also not terribly complex but pretty fun to play with.

I didnt know I would start such a discussion, and thats fine. I just wanted to point out that the RID warriors are not simpler than delue toys of the past years.
While that is good for me (and us that tried these toys out) I find it too bad that Hasbro advertized it as such and fans got primed with the idea that this line was simpler (when in reality it is as complex/simple as combiner wars or TR or generations in general).
In the end, like RAR said, they were just talking to the parents and trying to reassure them. But it was all just talk.

Also, the third party combiners clearly show that a toy with several molds can be quite complex. Not saying thats better though, but complexity doesnt seem to have anything to do with the amount of modes.

Also, one thing I wanted to point out. From looking at my toysrus, it seems Hasbro is right about autobots, especially Optimus, being more wanted than decepticons. I love this year for RID toys due to all the decepticons, and Hasbro even short packs autobots. But its not working out well. Right now, my TRU is fuly stocked on Starscream, has some Paralon and not one Warrior Optimus in sight. I haveno clue where all those optimus toys are going since every kid must have one by now, but they realy flew off the shelves. Unlike the decepticons.

william-james88 wrote:Also, one thing I wanted to point out. From looking at my toysrus, it seems Hasbro is right about autobots, especially Optimus, being more wanted than decepticons. I love this year for RID toys due to all the decepticons, and Hasbro even short packs autobots. But its not working out well. Right now, my TRU is fuly stocked on Starscream, has some Paralon and not one Warrior Optimus in sight. I haveno clue where all those optimus toys are going since every kid must have one by now, but they realy flew off the shelves. Unlike the decepticons.

yeah, which is quite a shame considering there have been some awesome Decepticon molds in the line. I really have enjoyed them

Brofist to Sabrblade for the CD Scattorshot mention. Recently got the Galaxy Force version and was reminded how great that toy is.

Speaking of variants, I grabbed that RiD Mini-con 15 pack. Aside from not having the clear pieces (I suspect this is probably a Costco/Sams Club type exclusive?), here's a breakdown of the differences in the toys from their earlier versions, where I can ID them:

• Windstrike: additional silver paint app on chest
• Tricerashot: unsure since regular version not yet released, but I think the silver paint on the snout is unique to this pack's version.
• Bashbreaker: See Tricerashot; new paint is on hammer/forearms
• Lord Doomitron: See Tricerashot except I don't know the difference. Maybe the silver teeth paint?
• Undertone: similar deco to Scorch Strike Undertone, only completely different. Metallic orange & rust colored limbs vs tan with copper colored limbs, plus completely different eye, face, and torso paint. Scans into app as regular white Undertone.
• Anvil: Off blue legs instead of black, silver chest paint instead of black, additional red paint app on shoulders, and eyes painted with less red to give some silver outline making Anvil look a bit more cunning.
• Forth: Actually called this. Your single packed one may have come in a package saying this, or Back. This pack's version has additional silver paint on the fingers, and the face looks bloated. That mold didn't last long.
• Hammer: New silver paint on beak and blue paint on tail. Wings have blue paint instead of black.
• Sandsting: Slightly deeper purple, additional silver paint app on stinger (watch out for the stinger), and that's it for this one.
• Ratbat: there's always one disappointment. One tiny new red paint app on the, uh, bat pectorals? Upper wing segments? Whatever.
• Swelter: Additional yellow paint apps on arms, slightly deeper yellow plastic but YMMV as yellow toys are notorious for different runs from the factory having minor, unintended, arbitrary differences in shade.
• Divebomb: Additional silver paint apps on chest and head/face. Small but really nice improvement. Not TAV nice, but still a cool touch regardless.
• Beastbox: Additional silver paint apps on shoulder gun looking things. Plastic also more similar to TAV campaign release than original US release.
• Velocirazor: Additional silver paint apps on claws. Would be as lame as Ratbat except dude, claws.
• Sawback: Additional silver paint apps on body. Eye color may have been changed to green, if it wasn't all along. Paint on my single packed release is so thin that I can't tell if it's yellow or green.

Additionally, they're all done up in just barely metallic plastic. This isn't new to some of them but it is to many, or at least, it's more noticeable on these in good lighting.

Just wanted to get this out there in case this is actually a weird canceled thing or something, and you're paranoid like me and want to track it down. I can't promise pictures anytime soon but if there's anything you wanna see maybe this weekend I can do some camera stuff.

ScottyP wrote:Brofist to Sabrblade for the CD Scattorshot mention. Recently got the Galaxy Force version and was reminded how great that toy is.

Speaking of variants, I grabbed that RiD Mini-con 15 pack. Aside from not having the clear pieces (I suspect this is probably a Costco/Sams Club type exclusive?), here's a breakdown of the differences in the toys from their earlier versions, where I can ID them:

• Windstrike: additional silver paint app on chest
• Tricerashot: unsure since regular version not yet released, but I think the silver paint on the snout is unique to this pack's version.
• Bashbreaker: See Tricerashot; new paint is on hammer/forearms
• Lord Doomitron: See Tricerashot except I don't know the difference. Maybe the silver teeth paint?
• Undertone: similar deco to Scorch Strike Undertone, only completely different. Metallic orange & rust colored limbs vs tan with copper colored limbs, plus completely different eye, face, and torso paint. Scans into app as regular white Undertone.
• Anvil: Off blue legs instead of black, silver chest paint instead of black, additional red paint app on shoulders, and eyes painted with less red to give some silver outline making Anvil look a bit more cunning.
• Forth: Actually called this. Your single packed one may have come in a package saying this, or Back. This pack's version has additional silver paint on the fingers, and the face looks bloated. That mold didn't last long.
• Hammer: New silver paint on beak and blue paint on tail. Wings have blue paint instead of black.
• Sandsting: Slightly deeper purple, additional silver paint app on stinger (watch out for the stinger), and that's it for this one.
• Ratbat: there's always one disappointment. One tiny new red paint app on the, uh, bat pectorals? Upper wing segments? Whatever.
• Swelter: Additional yellow paint apps on arms, slightly deeper yellow plastic but YMMV as yellow toys are notorious for different runs from the factory having minor, unintended, arbitrary differences in shade.
• Divebomb: Additional silver paint apps on chest and head/face. Small but really nice improvement. Not TAV nice, but still a cool touch regardless.
• Beastbox: Additional silver paint apps on shoulder gun looking things. Plastic also more similar to TAV campaign release than original US release.
• Velocirazor: Additional silver paint apps on claws. Would be as lame as Ratbat except dude, claws.
• Sawback: Additional silver paint apps on body. Eye color may have been changed to green, if it wasn't all along. Paint on my single packed release is so thin that I can't tell if it's yellow or green.

Additionally, they're all done up in just barely metallic plastic. This isn't new to some of them but it is to many, or at least, it's more noticeable on these in good lighting.

Just wanted to get this out there in case this is actually a weird canceled thing or something, and you're paranoid like me and want to track it down. I can't promise pictures anytime soon but if there's anything you wanna see maybe this weekend I can do some camera stuff.

Here's Tricerashot if you want to compare

I suppose when I'm buying if I was looking I'd look for Decepticon Warrior class 1st - especially new moulds, then any version of a desirable character like Optimus or Starscream, then any new mould in general who ever it is.
Lastly the likes of random Grimlock/Bumblebee repaint get shunted lower down the list.

I don't usually buy 3 Step Changers at all (except 2nd hand) - Though I do usually buy 1 steps as they are often only £5.00 each - I would happily buy Minicons but no one actually sell the things around here.

I'd like to buy more Rescue Bots toys too - but the main place to buy them is a long way away from here - Hopefully Hasbro UK will release all the carded pets sometime in the UK (including the rare blue lion)

We have some Robots in Disguise Starscream related news for you today. The warrior class Toysrus exclusive is now available online for the nice price of $ 14.99 USD (free shipping at $19). This is great news since it being an exclusive means that people looking for a deal would not have been able to price match.
Also Starscream related, the Power Surge Starscream is available on toysrus.ca for $37.47 CAD ($30 USD)

Both of these listings finally give us official stock images of these toys which you can find below. If you want to see an in depth pictorial review of the warrior Starscream, we have one for you here.

I am so going hunting Friday

Got mine ordered

Chuck is of the opinion that Starscream's instructions are the worst he's seen in 30 years... so I'll be interested to hear you folks opinions on that point when you have a Starscream in hand yourself.

RAR wrote:Chuck is of the opinion that Starscream's instructions are the worst he's seen in 30 years... so I'll be interested to hear you folks opinions on that point when you have a Starscream in hand yourself.

Even as a kid I never used instructions. Most toys I got back in the day wre second hand and so I developed a love for trying to figure it out on my own.

The instructions being on the box mean they will be thrown out so most kids will have to figure it out anyway, its not hard.