The Energon Pub

[Sentinel_Primal]

The only major figure I can think of from the Prime Wars that I think needs to be redone is Scourge, only because he was a deluxe while Galvatron and Cyclonus were voyagers. That might be closer scale wise, but I always thought of those three as the same height, with the Sweeps being a bit smaller despite being identical in most respects to Scourge.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

The only major figure I can think of from the Prime Wars that I think needs to be redone is Scourge, only because he was a deluxe while Galvatron and Cyclonus were voyagers. That might be closer scale wise, but I always thought of those three as the same height, with the Sweeps being a bit smaller despite being identical in most respects to Scourge.

I have TR Scourge and Universe Cyclonus next to TR Galvy, and I think they look fine at the height they are. I'm of the opinion that it's Rodimus Prime who most needs a version on par with Galvatron height-wise. That said, if I had to pick one of Galvatron's guys to make taller with a WFC redo it would be Cyclonus. I think it suits him a bit more, plus his Prime Wars figure is a Silverbolt retool (meaning A. combiner baggage and B. his wings are on his back rather than attached to his arms as they should be) rather than being truly his own mold.

[Rodimus Prime]

Honestly, I was hoping Grimlock and Hot Rod/Rodimus were going to get a break in this line, but the figures we got in PoTP for both characters were underwhelming, so maybe it wouldn't hurt to get them in WFC. A leader Grimlock, voyagers for Snarl and Sludge, and deluxe for Slag and Swoop. But the 4 other Dinos got treated well in PoTP, so I doubt we'll get figures for them. Having said that, I would like WFC to focus on characters that have never gotten proper figures, or haven't gotten any since the 80s. (Firecons!!!)

I don't find PotP Grimlock underwhelming at all. He's magnificently G1-accurate in robot and dino modes. I can see people finding the torso mode lacking (although I don't), but the robot and dino modes are delightfully articulated - and aside from the minor changes for the combined mode, replicate the G1 figure's detailing pretty much greeble-for-greeble. The transformation is also very close; the most notable differences are his tail forming the back of his robot mode lower legs (both to economize on mass and make the robot mode a bit neater) and the robot torso splitting in half for its upward migration.
Size-wise, he's fairly good. Comes up short next to CW Optimus, admittedly, but he undoubtedly scales just fine against SIEGE and Earthrise Optimus. So unless most of the extra mass was made up of accessories (which are the one area I find PotP Grimlock really does fall short), a Leader would make him way too big.

I disagree on all of that (except the figure not having any accessories, but IN MY OPINION the figure was so bad the accessories wouldn't have saved it) but we have had a lengthy discussion on this before, no need to rehash it. We disagree, let's leave it at that.

As for Rodimus Prime, I never found the PotP Leader underwhelming. I find him cool on his own, he finally gives us a Rodimus Prime in scale with the G1 Galvatron toy, and among CHUG figures he makes for a decent powered-up rebuild version. But he is out of scale with them as far as a normal Rodimus Prime goes; that and the battle station are why I want a Leader Roddy in WFC.

Rodimus was better than Grimlock, but the trailer parts IN MY OPINION were too clumsy and chunky. I liked how the engineering and transformation was done, but it still came out a disappointing figure for me. I like the base figure, but the "evolved" mode is not that good. Ironically, I find the opposite to be true with Optimus from PoTP. Great "evolved" mode (even with the ugly gray parts that could have been painted red ) but disappointing Orion Pax figure. If only they could have figured out how to reduce the kibble on his back, he would have been good.

Saying we haven't had the Firecons since the '80s isn't quite accurate. Flamefeather and Sparkstalker had G2 versions in Europe, so as far as the Firecons as themselves that puts the date in the '90s. As far as homage versions go, there was a BotCon G2 Cindersaur in 2010 to sorta-complete the G2 Firecon set, a Cindersaur redeco of Prime Rippersnapper, Bot Shots Cindersaur, and most recently the Cindersaur headswap redeco of PotP Slash.

G2 and homages aren't the same a proper G1.

The Firecons, especially Cindersaur, are definitely on HasTak's radar. So proper versions could still happen.

Which is what I am asking for.

[Ironhidensh]

BTW, we're long overdue for a proper Leader Grimlock that's just a big figure in a box. No base parts or playset parts or transforming throne or whatever. Just a big scale accurate robot that turns into an even bigger t-rex, a gun, a RED sword (sorry, Zelda) and maybe a crown. Also should have a mostly G1 toy/cartoon transformation with a few adjustments, no need for doing something radically different like with Optimus.

Emerje

This. So much this!

PotP Grimlock was (to me) just suck a worthless piece of trash. It could very easily be my most hated figure if the last 7 years or so. Hell, all of the dinobots suffered from the dumbass combining gimmick, with Swoop being the sole exception, and could use a redo. Grimlock just most if all. Hell, I would pay extra mo ry with no complaint if they could just give us a Hrimlock that doesn't massively suck.

[Hellscream9999]

Wow, Hoist is a giant among Deluxes. I had seen him in pics next to Wheeljack and just assumed WJ was a short figure (I mean shorter than he really is). How does Hoist compare to Ironhide and his mold mates? Same? Taller? Shows a lot of promise for other tall characters that may not be worthy of a Voyager like a lot of post-movie characters.

BTW, we're long overdue for a proper Leader Grimlock that's just a big figure in a box. No base parts or playset parts or transforming throne or whatever. Just a big scale accurate robot that turns into an even bigger t-rex, a gun, a RED sword (sorry, Zelda) and maybe a crown. Also should have a mostly G1 toy/cartoon transformation with a few adjustments, no need for doing something radically different like with Optimus.

Emerje

Mines near ratchet and they're about the same height at the head

[JoeIsNotCool]

Does anyone know if we have had any confirmation of Thundercracker and Skywarp being retooled from this ER mould? I know it is probably inevitable but I don't want to get Starscream without being able to complete the trio, as I already have the classics trio.

[william-james88]

Does anyone know if we have had any confirmation of Thundercracker and Skywarp being retooled from this ER mould? I know it is probably inevitable but I don't want to get Starscream without being able to complete the trio, as I already have the classics trio.

No confirmation

[Sabrblade]

his wings are on his back rather than attached to his arms as they should be)

According to this fight, Cyclonus's wings are attached to his back in the show rather than to his shoulders like on the original toy:

[Tuned Agent]

But Siege and ER molds for Optimus, Megatron, and the datsuns... don't. They're pretty much the same, the ER molds are just that much more G1-accurate in both modes.

1. For the umpteenth bloody time, Smokescreen is the only confirmed ER Datsun so far. And Smokescreen's SIEGE version was A. extra-off compared to Prowl and Bluestreak and B. not as accessible.

Yes, technically Smokescreen is the only one confirmed yet. But if we're honest with ourselves, there's a better chance of a new Animated Prowl being made and it being redecoed into Bluestreak and Smokescreen than the other two datsun bros not being made from the ER mold. The same thing can be said for the seekers, Starscream is the only specific one that has been confirmed.

Except it's not exactly the same. The Coneheads all had appearances on Sky Lynx's boxart and Thrust is outright named in a listing. There have been no such hints of the other Datsuns. That's why in another post I said there hasn't been so much as a whisper of them.

There was a listing for Thrust? I must have missed that, scratch that comparison then. My point still stands about Prowl and Bluestreak, though. Barring a reduction of product production due to coronavirus, there's a 99.9% chance they're coming sooner or later.

2a. Optimus tries to be different with the giant roof lights that no Earth truck I've ever seen has, and the see-through grille, and I think it works.
2b. There's only so much you can do with G1 Optimus while sticking to the cartoon robot mode.

That's my point though. If Hasbro had truly intended Siege Optimus to represent a "different" look/design for the character, even if just for the alt mode, they easily could have done more to make him different that a few aesthetic changes to his G1 truck mode. They did it with the Siege seekers, why couldn't they have done it with others?

Because they were shackled by the cartoon robot modes. Optimus' robot mode is too boxy and too simple to be able to do too much else with his truck mode; there's not a lot to him that could have been repurposed like they did with the Seekers' ducts and wings.

If there's something the current design team excels at, it's coming up with creative transformation schemes. I'm pretty confident they could they could come up with something that isn't most of him folded into a box with his legs sticking out the back.

3. You're counting MEGATRON in the "That much more G1-accurate"?

He doesn't have battle damage splatter and his shins, pelvis and headsculpt are all more G1 accurate, so yes, by definition he is "that much more G1-accurate".

1. IMO battle damage doesn't count. 2. The shins are still tank bits rather than Bakelite-grip Walther handle, so not really. They're slightly more accurate at the front, but it's not enough to make a real difference. 3. The pelvis differences are trivial. 4. SIEGE Megatron's headsculpt is equally G1-accurate. Megatron's head in the cartoon is a bloody mess, because it's actually based on a misinterpretation of his toy's head as seen in the packaging art (the same thing that turned Hound's rifle into a small pistol); this results in a lot of inconsistency in how it's drawn. Whether the outer helmet's cheeks are angled in and by how much perpetually fluctuates from episode to episode and shot to shot (even in the damn movie!), same for whether it's drawn with the toy-accurate ridges on the back (which the SIEGE head has), the exact shape of it constantly changes... So there's a fair bit of wiggle room as far as the accuracy of Megs' stupid noggin. I personally favor the SIEGE head more, since it has that extra touch of toy detail.

You and I may not care about the battle damage, but there are people who do. It's removal is technically more accurate. As for his legs, it's kind of unavoidable that they have tank bits. But the G1 cartoon never gave his legs much gun grip detailing, and that is what this figure is trying to emulate, not the original toy (for better or for worse). His legs were retooled to emulate the flat, near-detailless gun grip shins from the cartoon, though, making them more G1 accurate. The pelvis had a whole lot of sculpted detail removed, it's pretty noticeable. What I meant about the head had more to do with its general proportions. Compared to the Siege version, ER Megatron's head is a bit taller and skinnier, which is more consistent with how it was generally depicted in the cartoon (though, as you mentioned, it fluctuated). I do also favor the Siege head, because I think it looks better with the slightly squatter proportions. I agree that the differences are relatively minor (since the rest of the toy is basically the same ), but it's undeniable that the ER version is more accurate to the G1 cartoon.

And yes, ER Prime got a trailer, but I'm talking about the base figure. And the trailer doesn't necessarily give a reason for Siege Prime's existence. Siege Prime easily could have gotten the trailer treatment had he been leader class,

No, he couldn't have. Because they had just done a G1 cartoon Optimus Prime with trailer at the Leader-class price point in Power of the Primes. Did you completely overlook that? Thanks to PotP, the Warden-obligatory Leader Optimus in SIEGE had to be something different. But they still wanted a more G1 Optimus in there (As far as Generations goes, Optimus is the new Bumblebee).
Also IMO it's less "the trailer justifies SIEGE Prime's existence" and more "The trailer justifies Earthrise Prime's existence".

No, I didn't overlook that, it's just not relevant anymore. ER Optimus is no less different from PotP Optimus than Siege Starscream is from PotP Starscream

Whuh? ER Optimus is G1 cartoon Earth Mode Optimus, both cab and trailer. That gives him decidedly more in common with the PotP Evolution figure than SIEGE Starscream - who is a Tetrajet - has with PotP Starscream (an Earth jet). Or did you mean to say ER Starscream?
Because they couldn't have done another Voyager Earth mode Starscream immediately after PotP any more than they could have done another Leader G1 Optimus cab and trailer immediately after PotP.

No, I meant to say PotP Starscream. Dispite having different alt modes, they're still both voyager Starscreams with very G1-looking robot modes with transformation schemes that involve their robot modes pretty much just chilling under their jet modes. Meanwhile, ER Optimus is a voyager-sized G1 Optimus that also comes with a G1-accurate trailer that has a (mostly) G1-accurate base mode, while PotP Optimus is a deluxe-sized Orion Pax that combines with his trailer to form a G1 Optimus robot mode that is easily twice the size of ER Optimus' robot mode, and has a different-looking deco due to all the gray panels. They are completely different functioning toys, just as different as Siege Starscream is from PotP Starscream (even factoring in PotP Starscream's combiner gimmic), hence the comparison. ER Optimus has a lot more in common with Siege Optimus than PotP Optimus, even dispite the Siege version being in a different size class.

Your point would have made sense a couple years ago, but not now.

How does my point that they couldn't have done another Leader cab-and-trailer G1 cartoon Optimus immediately after PotP, that the Optimus toys in SIEGE had to be different from the immediately-preceding Optimus, not make sense?

Because the WFC trilogy is showing us that what came in previous lines is no longer a factor in what is made in the current one. I mean, we now live in a world where ER Megatron is a thing. Again, your point would have made sense a couple years ago, but not today.

[Stargrave]

PotP Dinobots make me want to love them more than they’re actually awesome. I mean you can’t move Grim’s arms without him literally falling apart. Same for Volcanicus I want to love him but he just falls to pieces when you try to move him nothing stays pegged. It’s like they didn’t learn from Sky Lynx’s gestalt shoulder problem.

Sorry had to chime in now back to Earthrise...

[william-james88]

There was a listing for Thrust? I must have missed that, scratch that comparison then. My point still stands about Prowl and Bluestreak, though. Barring a reduction of product production due to coronavirus, there's a 99.9% chance they're coming sooner or later.

If there's something the current design team excels at, it's coming up with creative transformation schemes. I'm pretty confident they could they could come up with something that isn't most of him folded into a box with his legs sticking out the back. .

Here is the listing for Thrust

https://www.seibertron.com/transformers ... ore/44559/

As for the comment about creative Transformations, I never felt that, at least not generally. Some stubborn fans ignored the 2015 RID line, but looking back it had far more creative transformations. Of course, its due to there being new characters and designs. The Studio Series line also has interesting transformations since the designers are not basing them on previous toys (for the most part). But for all the generations lines, the transformations felt rather meat and potatoes rather than OMG because in many cases we were getting G1 with more articulation. Some wowed me, like Legends Blurr, the Jumpstarters, Triggerhappy, Siege Optimus, and most recently Earthrise Cliffjumper. I also really liked Kup and Ironhide/Ratchet. But for the most part, it's more about looking the part than reinventing the wheel. Just my opinion of course.

[ZeroWolf]

There was a listing for Thrust? I must have missed that, scratch that comparison then. My point still stands about Prowl and Bluestreak, though. Barring a reduction of product production due to coronavirus, there's a 99.9% chance they're coming sooner or later.

If there's something the current design team excels at, it's coming up with creative transformation schemes. I'm pretty confident they could they could come up with something that isn't most of him folded into a box with his legs sticking out the back. .

Here is the listing for Thrust

https://www.seibertron.com/transformers ... ore/44559/

As for the comment about creative Transformations, I never felt that, at least not generally. Some stubborn fans ignored the 2015 RID line, but looking back it had far more creative transformations. Of course, its due to there being new characters and designs. The Studio Series line also has interesting transformations since the designers are not basing them on previous toys (for the most part). But for all the generations lines, the transformations felt rather meat and potatoes rather than OMG because in many cases we were getting G1 with more articulation. Some wowed me, like Legends Blurr, the Jumpstarters, Triggerhappy, Siege Optimus, and most recently Earthrise Cliffjumper. I also really liked Kup and Ironhide/Ratchet. But for the most part, it's more about looking the part than reinventing the wheel. Just my opinion of course.

I think you hit the nail on the head. The original argument was over Siege Prime existing when Earthrise was on the horizon (or something similar along those lines) and why Siege Prime turned into the alt mode he had. This was all because of the robot mode which would have been difficult to get right if the alt mode was nothing similar to G1. Of course, so far Siege has been the only one with a Prime at the Voyager price point (and I can see that being the case unless we get a suprise) parents will have been thankful of the Prime at a cheaper price. Perfect present fodder.

[aronjlove]

Can someone tell me if this is how baby Transformers are made???

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

@TunedAgent "What came before" IMO still had a bearing on SIEGE, and regardless of the differences in function, differences or lack thereof in appearance are a significant factor in toys, because appearance is the first thing shopping parents judge by.

PotP Dinobots make me want to love them more than they’re actually awesome. I mean you can’t move Grim’s arms without him literally falling apart. Same for Volcanicus I want to love him but he just falls to pieces when you try to move him nothing stays pegged. It’s like they didn’t learn from Sky Lynx’s gestalt shoulder problem.

Sorry had to chime in now back to Earthrise...

I have no idea what you and Rodimus are doing wrong to have so much trouble with your Grimlocks. I really don't. Especially if you're having issues with just Grimlock on his own. The only PotP Dinobot I have problems with is Slash, and that's only because I have her holding both Ptero's vehicle and Lionizer (which can be a bit much for her feet).

@Rodimus Re: PotP Roddy, I like his Evolved robot mode better. None of the articulation gives me trouble, whereas the Hot Rod robot mode has severely restricted backwards leg articulation and that part of him just overall feels inferior to TR Hot Rod. Re: PotP Optimus, you and I have opposite views; I consider his Evolved mode clunky oversize color-conflicted bleh, whereas the Orion Pax component is the main reason I even want him. Because kibbly-backed though it may be, that's an actual cartoon Orion Pax with the right head, chest, and legs.

My fondness for PotP Rodimus does not stop me from hoping for a new one that's a direct update of the original toy (hopefully with a non-partforming spoiler), though.

[Rodimus Prime]

Why do you assume that we're doing something wrong? Isn't it possible that our Grimlock figures are faulty? Moreover, isn't it possible that the figure is just lousy in general? I'm glad that you enjoy the figure, maybe you got one that doesn't fall apart in torso mode at the addition of limbs that it's supposedly designed to support. Maybe you have lower expectations. My PoTP Grimlock is a floppy mess and a disappointment all around. Plain and uninspiring robot mode, ugly and awkward dino mode, and the torso just proves why the Dinobots don't need to be combiners, not with Grimlock anyway. They actually make good limbs for Sky Lynx. If there will be a Grimlock in WFC, the design and quality better be cranked up, especially if it's a leader. As for the other 2, I've said my piece. I'm getting ready to sell some of my collection, so if you're interested in PoTP Prime, let me know.

[AcademyofDrX]

I don't understand why this is an argument, one person can like a figure while another doesn't. Maybe there are quality differences between two figures, maybe you both have different expectations. Personally, I bristle at "this thing is bad" versus "I don't like thing," especially when the reasons are subjective like "plain" and "ugly." Nothing wrong with feeling that way, but not everyone is going to agree.

[Rodimus Prime]

My point exactly. He likes the figure, I don't, and that's fine. I didn't question why he disagreed with me, like he did. He can have his opinion, I just ask that he understand that I have mine. Like you said, it's fine to have different viewpoints.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Well, what really confused me was Stargrave's comment about Grimlock falling apart in robot mode when one moves his arms. I can understand having problems with the combiner mode, but that was baffling to me.

I'm sorry you've been let down by PotP Grimlock. I've personally found his robot and dino modes to be delightful upgrades of the original toy (which I consider myself quite familiar with, owning it and at one point having kitbashed it for greater robot mode arm articulation), replicating much of the detail while adding more function. That being said, his robot mode did look a bit meh until I repainted his optics blue. It's amazing what having that little touch of blue does IMO.
A shame he was a dud for you.. Regarding your issues specifically with Volcanicus, I did ask about something that might make a difference, but didn't get a reply: Whether you were sure you were tabbing the forearms into the right slots. Because Grimlock's upper arms end up with a pair of "false friend" slots right next to the ones his forearms are actually supposed to tab into; that tripped me up big-time the first few times I tried to do his torso mode.
If you're putting the tabs in the proper slots and still having problems, then that really sucks

A bit more on topic for this thread: Having SIEGE Apeface at long last is making me look forward to Earthrise Snapdragon all the more.

On the subject of re-dos... I'm kinda hoping for a do-over of Soundwave with a chest door that can hold the G1 cassettes. I think those scale better with Generations toys than the WFC Micromaster versions do, plus having a chest door big enough for them would make him much better able to hold the Micromaster ones (which the existing WFC Soundwave has issues with, from everything I hear).

If they don't re-do Soundwave with that, hopefully they at least keep it in mind for Blaster. I look forward to him. With as many as have been revealed for Earthrise already though, he'll probably be a Part 3 figure.

[Ironhidensh]

Why do you assume that we're doing something wrong? Isn't it possible that our Grimlock figures are faulty? Moreover, isn't it possible that the figure is just lousy in general? I'm glad that you enjoy the figure, maybe you got one that doesn't fall apart in torso mode at the addition of limbs that it's supposedly designed to support. Maybe you have lower expectations. My PoTP Grimlock is a floppy mess and a disappointment all around. Plain and uninspiring robot mode, ugly and awkward dino mode, and the torso just proves why the Dinobots don't need to be combiners, not with Grimlock anyway. They actually make good limbs for Sky Lynx. If there will be a Grimlock in WFC, the design and quality better be cranked up, especially if it's a leader. As for the other 2, I've said my piece. I'm getting ready to sell some of my collection, so if you're interested in PoTP Prime, let me know.

You did nothing wrong. I bought 2 PotP Grimlocks (one for each of my sons), and they both have the same falling apart issues. It is so bad, that my kids won't play with them anymore. Literally, if it is standing on a table, and you walk by and bump the table, there is a 90% chance its chest will split open.

I think zelda got a rare copy that actually works.

[Rodimus Prime]

Yeah, my Grimlock is that bad as well. His chest will just pop open on its own. So Zelda probably got lucky and got a well functioning copy. And yes, Zelda, I did make sure the tabs were in the right slots and no dice. Once I slide in the arms (Slag and Swoop), the tabs come out. I thought I answered that already, so my bad. Volcanicus in itself is not horrible, if he could stay in one piece. I'm tempted to superglue the tabs into the slots and have Grimlock in permanent torso mode, especially since I don't like his other modes anyway.

Anyway, you're right, back to Earthrise, before Burn drops the hammer for off-topic shenanigans. I like Soundwave as he is, though I haven't tried the G1 cassettes with him (they're staying with G1 Soundwave) nor do I own the Siege cassettes. However, what if Soundwave simply gets rereleased as a blue version of Soundblaster so that he would just have the bigger door? It would be kinda ironic.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Yeah, my Grimlock is that bad as well. His chest will just pop open on its own. So Zelda probably got lucky and got a well functioning copy. And yes, Zelda, I did make sure the tabs were in the right slots and no dice. Once I slide in the arms (Slag and Swoop), the tabs come out. I thought I answered that already, so my bad. Volcanicus in itself is not horrible, if he could stay in one piece. I'm tempted to superglue the tabs into the slots and have Grimlock in permanent torso mode, especially since I don't like his other modes anyway.

Anyway, you're right, back to Earthrise, before Burn drops the hammer for off-topic shenanigans. I like Soundwave as he is, though I haven't tried the G1 cassettes with him (they're staying with G1 Soundwave) nor do I own the Siege cassettes. However, what if Soundwave simply gets rereleased as a blue version of Soundblaster so that he would just have the bigger door? It would be kinda ironic.

A shame about yours, then.

Regarding SIEGE Soundwave, I've seen from pics that his chest cavity is barely wide and tall enough for the SIEGE Micromaster cassettes (and heard that it's a tight fit), so no way in hell could he accommodate the G1 versions.

Regarding releasing him as a blue Soundblaster.. From what I've heard, the deeper door might help a little if it's only one cassette in there.

But still.. A "Blue Soundblaster" release of Soundwave... Sounds familiar somehow:

[Rodimus Prime]

But wasn't the point of the bigger door so that both cassettes that were released in the 2-pack could fit?

And which Soundwave is that in the pic? I don't recall seeing that before.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

But wasn't the point of the bigger door so that both cassettes that were released in the 2-pack could fit?

It is. But from what I hear it's only barely enough depth for the second cassette, making for a tight squeeze with two loaded in. And it's my understanding that there's also only barely enough width and height clearance for the cassettes (meaning, cramped fit that makes it a bother to load them in and take them out).
Hopefully when Blaster comes out he'll have a roomy enough chest to avoid problems.

And which Soundwave is that in the pic? I don't recall seeing that before.

The Classics reissue. It was originally meant for the Commemorative Series but when that flopped it got moved to the Classics line.

[Deadput]

But wasn't the point of the bigger door so that both cassettes that were released in the 2-pack could fit?

And which Soundwave is that in the pic? I don't recall seeing that before.

I thought that Siege Soundlbaster/Soundwave had issues with fitting the cassette bots in their torsos? If so I suppose that maybe Soundblaster's spacier compartment helps with getting one of them in alright.

[Sentinel_Primal]

But wasn't the point of the bigger door so that both cassettes that were released in the 2-pack could fit?

And which Soundwave is that in the pic? I don't recall seeing that before.

That was the intent, but the only one that comfortably fits in Soundwave is Laserbeak, and while he fits into Soundblaster, there's so little room around him that it's too much of a pain to try and remove him, let alone Rumble, Ratbat, or Ravage who are all a hair to big to work with Soundwave. They just needed to increase the size of the chest door by a millimeter or two in order to improve it. Hopefully if we get an ER Soundwave (I'm not holding my breath for Soundblaster) he'd improve on Siege's flaws.