The Energon Pub

[Sentinel_Primal]

Based off the images just released of Snapdragon on Dengeki Hobby, I think it's safe to say the majority of his white plastic will be like Apeface's. That's not a problem for me as I didn't mind the plastic, but it's something a couple of people really hated. Still looking forward to getting this figure to complete the Horrorcons

[Sabrblade]

He sure does look a lot nicer than Apeface did.

[Wolfman Jake]

Based off the images just released of Snapdragon on Dengeki Hobby, I think it's safe to say the majority of his white plastic will be like Apeface's. That's not a problem for me as I didn't mind the plastic, but it's something a couple of people really hated. Still looking forward to getting this figure to complete the Horrorcons

I'm actually fine with the reuse of the "soapy" colored white plastic. It makes Snapdragon match Apeface that much better together now. They're a matching pair.

[aronjlove]

Are these pics or renders, as the white seems more matte than shiny on Apeface and these images make it look shiny.

[M. Spector]

Snapdragon is looking snappy. All three of the modes are almost too clean looking to be true, cant wait to pick him up when this corona madness blows over!

[Wolfman Jake]

Snapdragon doesn't seem to have any battle damage paint apps. That's a shame. I wish he did for more parity with his partner, Apeface.

[Sentinel_Primal]

Are these pics or renders, as the white seems more matte than shiny on Apeface and these images make it look shiny.

Pictures. And if I recall correctly, when Apeface's pictures were released they looked similarly shiny. It's all dependent on the lighting setup used

[blackeyedprime]

Hollow Dino arms are really bad but looks good otherwise - won't be too hard to sprinkle glitter on it to match apeface :p

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

If you can't deal with visible hollows, especially when they're not all that big, maybe you should give up Transformers and collect the reboot Diaclone line instead.

My only issue with his bird mode is the legs- not how skinny they are, but how closely together they seem to be the closer they get to the body.

Well luckily for you, that's just an optical illusion. Having looked at both the video and the toy fair pics, there's a very definite space between them all the way up.

At some angles, it looks like they almost meet at the same point, like a kid drew and designed then.

That can happen with any Transformer with poseable legs, especially when they have a wide upper body.

[blackeyedprime]

Nah, I'll just win the lottery so I can pay the price of a deluxe to support hasbros support of third party companies with their fillers... though it probably would be cheaper to collect the rebooted diaclone. Even with the hollows it looks like like an improvement over the G1 figure (just needs some decepticon stickers on the wings).

Interesting to see if him and apeface ever get selects repaints just for double usage of them (clean apeface and dirty snapdragon or beast box and overkill at a struggle - they could even dust off potp swoop for a squalk talk in the regular earthrise line up).

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

@blackeyedprime Or maybe they'll do something sly and redeco Snapdragon in red, gray, and black.

Mold hollows have been a part of Transformers forever, and always will be... Those gaps in Snapdragon's dino arms are pretty minor stuff. They've got nothing on, say, PotP Optimus' forearms or Cybertron Optimus' leg guns (And where's the fillers for those, eh, 3P? It's only been 15 years since the toy came out...). Or, to give a non-TF example, Titanus' cannons.

[Rodimus Prime]

I hate to say it but I'm not impressed with Snappy. At first I thought I was looking at a legends class figure. He seems so simple. Definitely doesn't look like he's got much going on. But I guess we'll find out when he's reviewed. And that dino mode...

[Jelze Bunnycat]

@blackeyedprime Or maybe they'll do something sly and redeco Snapdragon in red, gray, and black.

Well, if we're gonna go homaging designs of other companies...

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

IMO Dengeki's pics do him dirty, especially the dino mode. The white background doesn't help.




Here are some better pics of his dino mode.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Another reminder of those Allicon Beast Mode "arms"... *Shudder*

The jet mode was what I was most concerned with. Some were sceptical he would be a unique mold to Apeface and given how very different the two designs are, I was apprehensive on that front. Luckily the Horrorcon with the superior Jet Mode has retained that title, several decades later. It is stunning.

The Beast Modes of both are disappointing however, there's no escaping that. We've had five years of the Beast Era, experimenting and refining Transforming [triple changer] animal designs, since their initial G1 debut. That knowhow should have been brought into play to streamline their modern designs. That didn't happen and therein lies the disparity.

[Skritz]

Is it wrong I want a Beast Wars Megatron redeco for SELECTS? Not that it will happen.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

The Beast Modes of both are disappointing however, there's no escaping that. We've had five years of the Beast Era, experimenting and refining Transforming [triple changer] animal designs, since their initial G1 debut. That knowhow should have been brought into play to streamline their modern designs. That didn't happen and therein lies the disparity.

1. Reality check time: Most of those triple-changer animal designs had the reverse problem - the vehicle mode was fairly obviously made of animal bits.
2. Bear in mind the fact that Apeface and Snapdragon have the constraint of still needing to look like their G1 selves, whereas the Beast Warriors had more organic limb shapes.
3. Their beast modes have been streamlined.



Snapdragon's dino mode used to have the bulk of his robot legs awkwardly trying to hide under his belly, while his dino arms were these clumsy chunky things hanging mounted to the side of them.
Now, the dino arms are better-proportioned and tuck into his torso in his other modes, and the robot legs have been consolidated with the dino tail. This also streamlines his robot mode:



Apeface has similarly consolidated his robot mode legs with his gorilla forearms, vastly improving his own beast mode. And while his robot arms are still stuck on his gorilla hips, they at least hide the hands and fold up, making it look less blatant and more like he just has fat hips.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

1. Reality check time: Most of those triple-changer animal designs had the reverse problem - the vehicle mode was fairly obviously made of animal bits.

Actual reality check: I'm not talking about figures from 1998. I'm talking about the creative process has come a long way since the 80's. The Beast Era refined Beast Mode designs. Transmetals themselves had vehicle augments but none of them went as far as completely changing into a car, osprey etc (Waspinator was probably the closest to a "true" Triple-Former).

2. Bear in mind the fact that Apeface and Snapdragon have the constraint of still needing to look like their G1 selves, whereas the Beast Warriors had more organic limb shapes.

That is also a redundant excuse. They still have to strictly adhere to their 80's designs, yet Generations Springer, Trypticon, Omega Supreme or even Earthrise Prime don't? Why is that??

[Jeddostotle7]

That is also a redundant excuse. They still have to strictly adhere to their 80's designs, yet Generations Springer, Trypticon, Omega Supreme or even Earthrise Prime don't? Why is that??

If the Generations Springer you're talking about is the Siege one... How do any of those not adhere to their '80s designs??

Apeface and Snapdragon's beast modes looking bulky and slightly abstract is a part of their visual identity IMO, and even if you streamline that you still gotta maintain a certain amount of it unless you're actually trying to reinvent them, which clearly is not the case here.

(If you're talking about T30 Springer, than it's irrelevant because it's from a part of Generations before this strict adherence to the original '80s designs came about.)

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

1. Reality check time: Most of those triple-changer animal designs had the reverse problem - the vehicle mode was fairly obviously made of animal bits.

Actual reality check: I'm not talking about figures from 1998. I'm talking about the creative process has come a long way since the 80's. The Beast Era refined Beast Mode designs. Transmetals themselves had vehicle augments but none of them went as far as completely changing into a car, osprey etc (Waspinator was probably the closest to a "true" Triple-Former).

Ah. Well, you're still wrong. Because those lessons have been applied.

2. Bear in mind the fact that Apeface and Snapdragon have the constraint of still needing to look like their G1 selves, whereas the Beast Warriors had more organic limb shapes.

That is also a redundant excuse. They still have to strictly adhere to their 80's designs, yet Generations Springer, Trypticon, Omega Supreme or even Earthrise Prime don't? Why is that??

What the actual hell are you talking about? Every. Last. One. of those toys you mentioned looks like their '80s self. The engineering has been vastly improved (although in Prime's case I'm tempted to say he's over-engineered), but they still look like the blocky designs of the cartoon and comics of yore.

And Apeface and Snapdragon have seen similar improvements in engineering, as outlined in the last part of my post.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Quite a large chunk of SIEGE would disagree with a "strict adherence to 80's designs" being enforced at all. Also, back to Beast Formers, Trypticon retains his visual identity, yet has a completely updated design. As also suggested by the images for the new Scorponok.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Quite a large chunk of SIEGE would disagree with a "strict adherence to 80's designs" being enforced at all.

Get this through your skull: We're talking about the VISUAL design, not the transformation engineering.

Also, back to Beast Formers, Trypticon retains his visual identity, yet has a completely updated design. As also suggested by the images for the new Scorponok.

Speaking as someone who owns both versions of Trypticon, the transformation engineering on him isn't all that different. He's a lot more articulated, but the basic transformation scheme is largely the same. And with Scorponok, it looks like the most substantial difference is that his scorpion legs tuck away in robot mode.

And I reiterate that Apeface and Snapdragon have received refinements in their transformation. I outlined this in my first response to you. Maybe you should actually read that part of it - I've seen nothing to indicate that you have.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

1. Reality check time: Most of those triple-changer animal designs had the reverse problem - the vehicle mode was fairly obviously made of animal bits.

Actual reality check: I'm not talking about figures from 1998. I'm talking about the creative process has come a long way since the 80's. The Beast Era refined Beast Mode designs. Transmetals themselves had vehicle augments but none of them went as far as completely changing into a car, osprey etc (Waspinator was probably the closest to a "true" Triple-Former).

Ah. Well, you're still wrong. Because those lessons have been applied.

No, incorrect again. Because "Mecha-Godzilla" and "Mecha-King Kong" still look no closer to what they originally pay homage to and in 2019/2020, they could quite easily.

2. Bear in mind the fact that Apeface and Snapdragon have the constraint of still needing to look like their G1 selves, whereas the Beast Warriors had more organic limb shapes.

That is also a redundant excuse. They still have to strictly adhere to their 80's designs, yet Generations Springer, Trypticon, Omega Supreme or even Earthrise Prime don't? Why is that??

The engineering has been vastly improved (although in Prime's case I'm tempted to say he's over-engineered), but they still look like the blocky designs of the cartoon and comics of yore.

And Apeface and Snapdragon have seen similar improvements in engineering, as outlined in the last part of my post.

The new figures I mentioned still carry their visual identity, but the entire point I am making is one of creative design and engineering. Omega Supreme, still looks like himself, but he doesn't still carry visual cues from his 80s toy. The Horrorcon bot modes are good. Jet modes, a swing (Snapdragon) and a miss (Apeface). The Beast Modes are not good enough and they are more than capable of being so. You would think given they are two unique molds, HasTak would have put the effort in to their complete designs. Instead they gave a clear focus on certain modes at the expense of others.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Quite a large chunk of SIEGE would disagree with a "strict adherence to 80's designs" being enforced at all.

Get this through your skull: We're talking about the VISUAL design, not the transformation engineering.

I wasn't. So if you didn't understand from the very beginning, maybe best to say as much? Or nothing?

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

1. Reality check time: Most of those triple-changer animal designs had the reverse problem - the vehicle mode was fairly obviously made of animal bits.

Actual reality check: I'm not talking about figures from 1998. I'm talking about the creative process has come a long way since the 80's. The Beast Era refined Beast Mode designs. Transmetals themselves had vehicle augments but none of them went as far as completely changing into a car, osprey etc (Waspinator was probably the closest to a "true" Triple-Former).

Ah. Well, you're still wrong. Because those lessons have been applied.

No, incorrect again. Because "Mecha-Godzilla" and "Mecha-King Kong" still look no closer to what they originally pay homage to

Nope, you're the one who's wrong. Apeface's gorilla chest no longer sticks out a mile past his head and the gorilla head itself is better proportioned. Snapdragon no longer has robot leg tumors on his dino chest, his T. rex limbs are better proportioned and mounted where they should be (and more articulate), his neck actually looks like a neck and not just a block flipped out, and he has a bigger and more distinct head.

and in 2019/2020, they could quite easily.

How, exactly? Outline what you want here. Give me a laundry list of the further improvements you want made and how they'd fit in.

2. Bear in mind the fact that Apeface and Snapdragon have the constraint of still needing to look like their G1 selves, whereas the Beast Warriors had more organic limb shapes.

That is also a redundant excuse. They still have to strictly adhere to their 80's designs, yet Generations Springer, Trypticon, Omega Supreme or even Earthrise Prime don't? Why is that??

The engineering has been vastly improved (although in Prime's case I'm tempted to say he's over-engineered), but they still look like the blocky designs of the cartoon and comics of yore.

And Apeface and Snapdragon have seen similar improvements in engineering, as outlined in the last part of my post.

The new figures I mentioned still carry their visual identity, but the entire point I am making is one of creative design and engineering. Omega Supreme, still looks like himself, but he doesn't still carry visual cues from his 80s toy.

You are talking out your exhaust port on that one so hard it's not even funny. Several Prime Wars and WFC molds carry visual cues to such an extent that they have molded detail BASED ON THE 80s TOYS' STICKERS.
I think I actually got distracted from my original point here, which is that the only practical way I can see to further improve their beast modes would be to make said modes less blocky (which is what sets Beast Wars' beast modes apart from G1, in terms of appearance), but that that wasn't happening within the constraint of resembling their '80s selves looks-wise.

The Horrorcon bot modes are good. Jet modes, a swing (Snapdragon) and a miss (Apeface). The Beast Modes are not good enough and they are more than capable of being so. You would think given they are two unique molds, HasTak would have put the effort in to their complete designs.

They did, and you're utterly failing to see it.

Instead they gave a clear focus on certain modes at the expense of others.

The only thing that's true of is Apeface's jet mode.

Quite a large chunk of SIEGE would disagree with a "strict adherence to 80's designs" being enforced at all.

Get this through your skull: We're talking about the VISUAL design, not the transformation engineering.

I wasn't. So if you didn't understand from the very beginning, maybe best to say as much? Or nothing?

You sure seemed to be talking about engineering, what with remarks like " but the entire point I am making is one of creative design and engineering".

And whether it was looks or engineering you were talking about, you're wrong.