The Energon Pub

[Sabrblade]

even the live action movies have now thrown their hands in the air and gone '**** it, live action GEEWUN!'

And when the Bee movie was released, after seeing it the majority of the fandom (including a lot of people from these boards, myself excluded) damn near creamed their undies because of it. Why? Because FINALLY there were G1 designs in the movie!

No, it was because it was a darn good movie with actual heart, charm, logic, intelligence, and sensible storytelling. The movie would have been just as good as it was, no better or worse, even without the G1 designs it had. Those were the icing, not the cake.

[Skritz]

I'll bee keepign screenshot of this thread, that way if the Corona virus doesn't kill us all in 10 years I'll be able to plaster these screenshot as people complain it's the 7th line in a row we got a grey tank Voyager Megatron.

[Deadput]

Cyberverse I think is a good start for where I personally think the Transformers brand needs to go, having some familiar (and some new) characters in situations that are new but also sometimes approachable for existing fans.

Hopefully the WFC trilogy stuff is a success enough that the next trilogy or whatever comes next decides to go out of it's comfort zone.

I do wish we actually got media that corresponded with the toys that are actually out on the shelves, the Earthrise toys are cool but the "story" behind the line is kinda meaningless when it's just "character bios" and such, the WFC Netflix stuff is late so even if Earthrise gets a show of it's own it's gonna be late.

[Sabrblade]

I do wish we actually got media that corresponded with the toys that are actually out on the shelves, the Earthrise toys are cool but the "story" behind the line is kinda meaningless when it's just "character bios" and such, the WFC Netflix stuff is late so even if Earthrise gets a show of it's own it's gonna be late.

Season 2 of the Netflix show will be for Earthrise. Each season is only six episodes long (or at least the first season will be), so we shouldn't have to wait too long for Season 2.

[Rodimus Prime]

even the live action movies have now thrown their hands in the air and gone '**** it, live action GEEWUN!'

And when the Bee movie was released, after seeing it the majority of the fandom (including a lot of people from these boards, myself excluded) damn near creamed their undies because of it. Why? Because FINALLY there were G1 designs in the movie!

No, it was because it was a darn good movie with actual heart, charm, logic, intelligence, and sensible storytelling. The movie would have been just as good as it was, no better or worse, even without the G1 designs it had. Those were the icing, not the cake.

The quality of the story is a matter of opinion, but my point that G1 designs being included was viewed as a positive still stands. It was the icing, as you yourself put it.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Nostalgia is fine, to a point. But the reality is, if you don't move with the times you are a relic. Without relevance. To those that want things to look now, as they did "when they were a kid", three or four decades ago. What is the point of that in 2020?

A sense of consistency and stable brand recognition similar to the likes of Batman, Superman and Marvel.

The difference there, is that none of these things look like they did when they were first introduced. No one pines for Batman of the 40's, Superman of the 30's, X-Men of the 60's etc They will occasionally throw out a visual homage or nod, but it is only ever brief. Because if you want to give any brand Real Longevity, reinvention is the name of the game. Marvel's ethos has always been that New fans matter more than old fans. I doubt many of the other media companies disagree with that.

To me, brand recognition of Transformers equates to "war between two factions of shape-shifting alien robots". Names and visual identity are completely interchangeable. Dependent on the gimmick of that particular line.

That's why a while ago (in the SIEGE thread, I think?) it was discussed what this trilogy should actually have been. Given it was supposed to be a celebration of the anniversary of Transformers, as a whole franchise.

SIEGE/Past: G1 - G2

Earthrise/Present: Car Robots/UT/Animated/Prime

Part 3/Future: Beast Era/Takara series (also including TransTech and Machine Wars here too)

Everything represented. Simple. Selects would have continued to fill in the gaps and you would have had probably one of the most interesting TF lines to date. With each line cherry-picking the best examples of their subsequent series.

[Rodimus Prime]

To those that want things to look now, as they did "when they were a kid", three or four decades ago. What is the point of that in 2020?

Exactly that. Because it's not 1984. I'm writing for myself only here, but seeing the figures of characters from 1984 "when I was a kid" is a great joy to me, especially with the wonderful updates. Does that mean I don't like the toys that didn't come from then? No it does not. I like Armada and Cybertron quite a bit (Energon not so much) and I've been supportive of every single line that's been released by making purchases from that line, except for RiD2015, and Cyberverse. But that doesn't mean I want to abandon representations of characters and updates of toys that got me interested in the brand in the first place. I love to see new ideas and designs come out under the Transformers name, because each new thing makes the brand richer, even if it's something that doesn't work well, isn't received well, or doesn't age well. Simply because it still adds a new facet to the franchise, so it's not the same old stuff all the time. But seeing old characters with the same colors with new engineering (i.e. Masterpiece, Prime Wars, and now WFC) isn't the same as the toys from 1984-1987. Case in point is the Wal-Mart exclusive G1 releases of late. They flopped, because 1.) a lot of us already have those figures at least in 1 form (maybe original, maybe commemorative reissue, maybe some other way) and 2.) compared to today's designs, they're much simpler and thus not worth the asking price. Hasbro bet on people being blinded by nostalgia and lost. Which brings me back to my point: today's engineering is much more advanced than Diaclone, on which the original G1 figures are based, and thus even though the toy itself sports the same name and even color scheme, it's not the same toy. Therefore it is in a way still new and relevant.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Except it is the same and it is not new. The 80's designs are outdated, in real life terms, by nearly four decades. Earthrise Prime is a truck no longer in use, as with Seeker jets, Datsun brothers etc Go one step further and Silverbolt, for example, is a design for an aircraft that doesn't even exist anymore.

It is the equivalent of the recent glut of film and video game remakes. You're not making something new, you are putting a fresh coat of paint on something old. Rehash does not equate relevance. It purely caters to nostalgia and nothing else of merit.


Sci-Fi designs by their very nature are never truly dated. The Tetrajet, being a clear example of that. The SIEGE cars being the antithesis of that. As they weren't Sci-fi enough, instead merely coming across as Concept cars(which do date poorly).

Hasbro bet on people being blinded by nostalgia and lost.

I'd say they won. Otherwise G1 wouldn't still be adhered to at all.

[Rodimus Prime]

No, it isn't the same. Even with the examples you mentioned. Just because the Concorde doesn't fly anymore, why can't there be a toy based on it? It's not like we're getting the exact same figure we did in the 80s. It's an update. New engineering. More advanced playability. Makes for a new experience. Therefore not the same. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean others can't. And if you don't like it, you don't have to buy it. And yes, I get the argument that every figure or line revisiting G1 takes away shelf space from something that could be totally new, my answer to that is the same as what I wrote in a previous post: Hasbro is a company selling toys to kids. They revisit the 80s ideas and designs because it's what makes money. Only now that it's 35 years later, they update it with new engineering, thus making the experience different than before, and for kids who never experienced the older figures, or maybe played with a couple of them handed down by their parents, it's a brand new figure and experience, not the same old. Like you just said: maybe they did win by betting on nostalgia. In which case, the revisiting of 80s figures in future lines will continue, because it's what makes money.

Having said all that, I sincerely hope and am looking forward updates of the newer lines as well, such as Armada and Cybertron, and definitely Energon.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Not everyone thinks Transformers has nothing to offer beyond catering to 80's nostalgia. They are not revisiting that era to sell to the kids/fans of Today, but yesterday. Those are the collectors of today, those are the people, like Warden, in charge of HasTak at the moment.
So they feed into each other like an ouroboros. In spite of everyone else.
Like a spoilt child that has a toy box full of figures, but picks out and hands you the exact same one to play with every time.

There is a significant chunk of the 36 year history of Transformers that had very little to do with G1. That chunk in fact revitalised the brand. From Beast Wars to Bayformers. The part that brought the series back and actually made it financially viable again. Because it did something New.

Just because the Concorde doesn't fly anymore, why can't there be a toy based on it?

That all important word: relevance. Without it, the toy is just a throwback.

[Deadput]

Generations is great and all but I have a feeling that some fans will only be satisfied if they have the entire cartoon cast in "mini-masterpiece" form, figures like Earthrise Prime or Hoist which are very much just the G1 figures but with articulation as opposed to something like Power of the Primes Jazz, Titans Return Bumblebee or Siege Ratchet/Ironhide which do look like the characters in a lot of aspects but are still effected by modernization and not having their "proper" vehicle modes as some would see it.

Like I've read/seen people pass up on the Siege Ironhide/Ratchet mold because it doesn't turn into an Earth minivan.

Everything becomes dated with time, everything.

That doesn't mean that merchandise can't still be made based off dated products even if niche, if older things are getting rehashed now then it's just a testament to how much of an impact they had, in a way that makes them "timeless".

Also while the Bayformers films "helped" it's not like the franchise wasn't doing fine, it was in no decline and even as a big fan of the movies I feel that in the end they did more harm then good.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

if older things are getting rehashed now then it's just a testament to how much of an impact they had,

Alternatively, it puts a spotlight on how little some value the contributions of "today". Which is sad, really.

I do appreciate the ironic value in an infiltrating, advanced alien species of shape-shifting robots replicating the look of something that would stick out like a sore thumb

Also while the Bayformers films "helped" it's not like the franchise wasn't doing fine, it was in no decline.

Bayformers brought the money that no other part of the franchise has or likely ever will, via the power of movies. Marvel Studios is another example of that in action.

[Rodimus Prime]

Not everyone thinks Transformers has nothing to offer beyond catering to 80's nostalgia. They are not revisiting that era to sell to the kids/fans of Today, but yesterday. Those are the collectors of today, those are the people, like Warden, in charge of HasTak at the moment.

So you're saying Hasbro's Transformers profits come mainly from collectors who buy out of nostalgia?

Like a spoilt child that has a toy box full of figures, but picks out and hands you the exact same one to play with every time.

But it's not the exact same toy. It's a newer version of the old toy.

There is a significant chunk of the 36 year history of Transformers that had very little to do with G1. That chunk in fact revitalised the brand. From Beast Wars to Bayformers. The part that brought the series back and actually made it financially viable again. Because it did something New.

I'm not disputing that. I said I would like to see newer versions of figures from those lines, but if revisiting the 80s figures wasn't financially viable, Hasbro wouldn't be doing it, no matter how much of a Geewunner John Warden is.

Just because the Concorde doesn't fly anymore, why can't there be a toy based on it?

That all important word: relevance. Without it, the toy is just a throwback.

But as long as it's an appealing toy that sells, it is relevant. Most toys/vehicles in the Star Wars lines have no basis in reality at all, and they sell. The Concorde is at least something real.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

So you're saying Hasbro's Transformers profits come mainly from collectors who buy out of nostalgia?

Not necessarily. I'm saying the lines geared towards G1 are aimed mainly at collectors. Cyberverse etc are aimed at new fans/kids.

Like a spoilt child that has a toy box full of figures, but picks out and hands you the exact same one to play with every time.

But it's not the exact same toy. It's a newer version of the old toy.

Let me rephrase that, to correctly emphasise the point. Like a spoilt child that has a toy box full of figures, but picks out and hands you A Batman to play with every time.

There is a significant chunk of the 36 year history of Transformers that had very little to do with G1. That chunk in fact revitalised the brand. From Beast Wars to Bayformers. The part that brought the series back and actually made it financially viable again. Because it did something New.

I'm not disputing that. I said I would like to see newer versions of figures from those lines, but if revisiting the 80s figures wasn't financially viable, Hasbro wouldn't be doing it, no matter how much of a Geewunner John Warden is.

That depends on the scope, budget and cost assigned to WFC, in comparison to market return. If the next line, has no G1 basis to it at all and makes more money, HasTak will stick with that and not even think twice. ALA Beast Era, UT etc

That all important word: relevance. Without it, the toy is just a throwback.

But as long as it's an appealing toy that sells, it is relevant. Most toys/vehicles in the Star Wars lines have no basis in reality at all, and they sell. The Concorde is at least something real.

As I said before, Sci-Fi doesn't date in the same way. The human race is not in space, in any meaningful way. So until we are, spaceships can look like anything without causing disparity.
Whereas if Kup took the altmode of the Ford Model-T, it would. Concorde was something real, just like the Model-T or the VCR.

[ZeroWolf]

Generations is great and all but I have a feeling that some fans will only be satisfied if they have the entire cartoon cast in "mini-masterpiece" form, figures like Earthrise Prime or Hoist which are very much just the G1 figures but with articulation as opposed to something like Power of the Primes Jazz, Titans Return Bumblebee or Siege Ratchet/Ironhide which do look like the characters in a lot of aspects but are still effected by modernization and not having their "proper" vehicle modes as some would see it.

Like I've read/seen people pass up on the Siege Ironhide/Ratchet mold because it doesn't turn into an Earth minivan.

Everything becomes dated with time, everything.

That doesn't mean that merchandise can't still be made based off dated products even if niche, if older things are getting rehashed now then it's just a testament to how much of an impact they had, in a way that makes them "timeless".

Also while the Bayformers films "helped" it's not like the franchise wasn't doing fine, it was in no decline and even as a big fan of the movies I feel that in the end they did more harm then good.

Actually the bay movies brought in the big money, I can't see an argument for any harm they brought. Unless you mean within the fandom, which let me assure you, would still have found a way to fracture itself. I believe its been doing so since the time of G1. Will all the fans at that point have welcomed the change to futuristic alt modes over real(ish) vehicles? The change to headmasters? The pretenders? We all know how people reacted to Action Masters!

The fandom fighting amongst themselves is nothing new, all the bay movies did was give them a new outlet amongst many.

[Rodimus Prime]

Let me rephrase that, to correctly emphasise the point. Like a spoilt child that has a toy box full of figures, but picks out and hands you A Batman to play with every time.

Some people like Batman toys, especially if it's a different Batman toy every time. But I understand what you're saying.

If the next line, has no G1 basis to it at all and makes more money, HasTak will stick with that and not even think twice. ALA Beast Era, UT etc

That's my point exactly. Hasbro has been sticking with G1-inspired toys because they make money. It would be great if they could do both G1- and non-G1-inspired figures (and I don't see why they can't), but if it came down to choosing between 1 or the other (which is apparently the mindset they're in) they will go with the proven product every time.

As I said before, Sci-Fi doesn't date in the same way. The human race is not in space, in any meaningful way. So until we are, spaceships can look like anything without causing disparity.
Whereas if Kup took the altmode of the Ford Model-T, it would. Concorde was something real, just like the Model-T or the VCR.

The Concorde is hardly a Model T. It looks closer to a spaceship than an ancient automobile, especially when it's Silverbolt's alt mode. As I said before, it's all about appeal. If a kid likes what s/he sees and wants mommy and daddy to buy it, then it's relevant. Even if it's a Model T.

And I still have a VCR. I'm watching a movie on tape right now. Clear picture, clear sound. Still a fun experience, since the 80s. Just like G1.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

It would be great if they could do both G1- and non-G1-inspired figures (and I don't see why they can't)

Because that spoilt kid just wants you to play with a Batman toy and nothing else. You will like this Batman, because you have no choice otherwise. The proven track record of success with non-G1 lines - BW and UT - exists. So to do so again is no gamble at all. Those currently in charge are the physical obstacle to that, as there is no financial risk.

Most of my formative childhood took place in the 90's, but I have no overly sentimental attachment to it. That was 30 years ago, it no longer matters. Because I've always thought Tomorrow is always more interesting than Yesterday. That's where my love of robots and Sci-Fi came from.

[Rodimus Prime]

because that spoilt kid just wants you to play with a Batman toy and nothing else. You will like this Batman, because you have no choice otherwise. The proven track record of success with non-G1 lines - BW and UT - exists. So to do so again is no gamble at all. Those currently in charge are the physical obstacle to that, as there is no financial risk.

Then why don't the suits at Hasbro just override him? It's not like he has final say on what they put on the shelves. Yes, he's their chief designer, but they should be able to see that he only puts out product that's partially responsible for their profits. If he can't or won't produce what would take full advantage of their money-making opportunities (in this case both G1-inspired and non-G1-inspired designs) then he shouldn't be allowed to be in charge. But that's not Warden's fault, it's Hasbro's. He can't be blamed for making the most of his opportunity under his own terms.

Most of my formative childhood took place in the 90's, but I have no overly sentimental attachment to it. That was 30 years ago, it no longer matters. Because I've always thought Tomorrow is always more interesting than Yesterday. That's where my love of robots and Sci-Fi came from.

That's a personal view on living life, there's nothing wrong with that. Just understand that some people have a different outlook. I was a kid in the 80s, a teenager in the 90s, and I have a lot of fond memories from then as well as experiences that shaped who I am as a person today. Transformers, especially G1, is 1 of those experiences. So to me it matters. I do look forward to what tomorrow brings and I am excited about the prospects, but not at the cost of my fondness of parts of the past.

[blackeyedprime]

I'm kinda hoping for a selects or netflix earthrise prime with out the (lackluster) trailer and a better paint job/chest windows. If earth rise megatrons anything to go by, third part optimus might just be earth rise prime with sieges legs to hide the wheels in bot mode.

G2 hero sure shot/optimus and the car robots style optimus that was in armadas opening episode would be nice though probably impossible on that one.

They can't do Earthrise Optimus without the trailer, because it's part of the same mold as the figure itself. They can't block off the trailer part of the mold.

Which parts of optimus would be black if they did a g2 black trailer version? The weird half metallic paint head/hands might suit g2 prime more tbf. We might even get a Pepsi prime in selects :p

[Rodimus Prime]

Which parts of optimus would be black if they did a g2 black trailer version?

The Prime figure itself would be left alone and only the trailer would be painted black. That's how it was with the original G2 figure, right? He just got a sound effects box attached to the trailer and new weapons.

[Sabrblade]

Which parts of optimus would be black if they did a g2 black trailer version?

The Prime figure itself would be left alone and only the trailer would be painted black. That's how it was with the original G2 figure, right? He just got a sound effects box attached to the trailer and new weapons.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the Earthrise trailer to be molded in black? That'd be a ton of black paint for just a big box. After all, they didn't paint the whole thing gray for its normal Earthrise release. They molded it in gray, and then painted blue the gray parts on Optimus that were gangmolded to the trailer.

[LinaNui]

even the live action movies have now thrown their hands in the air and gone '**** it, live action GEEWUN!'

And when the Bee movie was released, after seeing it the majority of the fandom (including a lot of people from these boards, myself excluded) damn near creamed their undies because of it. Why? Because FINALLY there were G1 designs in the movie!

No, it was because it was a darn good movie with actual heart, charm, logic, intelligence, and sensible storytelling. The movie would have been just as good as it was, no better or worse, even without the G1 designs it had. Those were the icing, not the cake.

I think I must have watched a different movie from you. All I saw in the Bumblebee movie was G1 fan service and a story that would have been perfect for a disney kids movie. I (and my family who is not TF fans) definitely missed the bayverse parts(action) in it.

[Rodimus Prime]

Which parts of optimus would be black if they did a g2 black trailer version?

The Prime figure itself would be left alone and only the trailer would be painted black. That's how it was with the original G2 figure, right? He just got a sound effects box attached to the trailer and new weapons.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the Earthrise trailer to be molded in black? That'd be a ton of black paint for just a big box. After all, they didn't paint the whole thing gray for its normal Earthrise release. They molded it in gray, and then painted blue the gray parts on Optimus that were gangmolded to the trailer.

Yeah, if that's how the original trailer was. The point I was trying to make was that the trailer is separate from the cab, so the cab can be left alone while the trailer is altered, regardless of the alteration.

And LinaNui, I agree for the most part about the Bee movie, except that I thought there was plenty of action in it, even if they weren't giant explosions. The story overall was pretty weak IMO.

[ZeroWolf]

I quite liked the romance aspect ad if played on the tropes that made you think Charlie and her neighbour were going to get together but then they turned it on it's head by her saying they weren't ready for that. It's quite refreshing to see romance handled like that instead of believing that love moves that fast.
Though I must ask, what's a two year old movie got to do with Earthrise? Apart from an eighties shared ascetic.

[Hellscream9999]

I honestly think a break from g1 is needed, personally, I think a lateral step into UT territory wouldn't go amiss. I mean, we wouldn't even need a style change; siege did gangbusters with every market audience, right? Would UT style vehicles be so out of place? Galaxy upgrade prime would suggest not, heck they could even make the weaponizer system permanent for a more cohesive and unified gimmick.

If we think about it, they already have systems built for all the UT gimmicks: CW ports for the energon combiners - and maybe figs like armada overload and cybertron leobreaker - and the combiner ports for battltrap/flywheels for the energon deluxe-style combiners. Micromastrers are basically less creative minicons, it's all there for them, because, I'm gonna be hoest, if the next arc/trilogy after 'war' is over is 'moar geewun' I'm done