The Energon Pub

[D-Maximal_Primal]

I'm with ya, I prefer all the datsun boys being the same mold also. Love the fact they bringing barricade in. I'll definitely grab him. But I also don't see them using the same mold 4 times. Even though I would love it if they did the original seekers then did the rainmakers!!!

Titans Return Blurr would like a word.

UM, ACKSHUALLY! *Mouth breathe*

Blurr's retool were NOT mass retail figures, as Brainstorm was a Walgreen exclusive, Nautica was a boxset exclusive and Arcee was a stand-alone online and TRU exclusive. Meaning the Blurr mold only showed up once at mass retail during Titans Return.

However, Combiner Wars Deadend would like a word with you

If we want to get Technical, Dead End was only used for "1" mainline release, as himself. Brakeneck and Dustup were exclusive deals, Streetwise, Prowl, and Smokescreen were drastic re-shells that don't really count as the same molding as they had completely different looks, and Bluestreak and Unit-3 were also exclusives.

So really, the Streetwise tooling is the closest we get to a mainline mold being used 3 times. But that's just my take on tooling and identical appearances

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

I'm with ya, I prefer all the datsun boys being the same mold also. Love the fact they bringing barricade in. I'll definitely grab him. But I also don't see them using the same mold 4 times. Even though I would love it if they did the original seekers then did the rainmakers!!!

Titans Return Blurr would like a word.

UM, ACKSHUALLY! *Mouth breathe*

Blurr's retool were NOT mass retail figures, as Brainstorm was a Walgreen exclusive, Nautica was a boxset exclusive and Arcee was a stand-alone online and TRU exclusive. Meaning the Blurr mold only showed up once at mass retail during Titans Return.

IMO an exclusive release to a multinational bricks-and-mortar chain still counts as mass retail.

But even discounting that, Blurr's mold still showed up more than once - at least in part. Titans Return Chromedome is moldmated to Blurr (much as Highbrow is moldmated to Scourge). He shares Blurr's thighs, lower knee pieces, gun, and Titan Master minus the face (said Titan Master having been sculpted as Stylor to begin with).

[Skritz]

That said: the mold similarities/reuse MAY be a bit less of an issue in Siege if they end up with completely different accessories and weapons. That's something to keep in mind as that would make the mold reuse a bit less silly, since Siege is all about modular plug-and-play weapons and accessories. It's not much, sure, but it could still help these mold reuse a bit less boring.

However right now we're making a lot of assumptions that Siege will be full of retool, when right now the only confirmed Deluxe retool is Red Alert.

[AcademyofDrX]

The line has an emphasis on G1 figures, it's rumored (and almost certain) that we'll see a Ratchet and at least one additional seeker, and Bluestreak and Smokescreen will work as redecoes only. We still don't know anything about the later WFC lines, which could reuse molds a la CW/PotP. I think they'd be nuts not to release all the Datsun boys; that's just leaving money on the table.

And I never qualified restriction to mass retail only, it would be perfectly reasonable to see Bluestreak as an exclusive, for example.

If Barricade is in fact a G1 version of the movie character, I hope we see more line hoppers. I would love a RiD Strongarm retooled from someone like Hound, or a Cybertronian Slipstream. That said, I want a complete 1985 CHUG lineup, so I'm more interested in all of the Autobot cars in WfC first.

[Skritz]

I doubt we'll see more than one retool of each deluxe mold, especially if the rest of the trilogy reuse molds across lines, in which case it is entirely possible that these retools/redeco are saved for later. So what I'm expecting for the deluxes is:
-Ironhide/Ratchet (Apparently an exclusive) and maybe Impactor as his main line retool?
-Sideswipe/Red Alert
-Prowl/Bluestreak or Smokescreen with the other as an exclusive
-That leave Hound who I'm unsure he would get retooled as, given he had no mainline retool in G1, with only the E-Hobby exclusive Detritus. My theory is its either Ironfist or Roadbuster.
-Theory: Barricade, if he does indeed turn into a police car, is a retool of an unseen mold. Either a Sunstreaker or the Mirage that is supposed to be in a wave 'opposed' to Ironfist.

[Sentinel_Primal]

The line has an emphasis on G1 figures, it's rumored (and almost certain) that we'll see a Ratchet and at least one additional seeker, and Bluestreak and Smokescreen will work as redecoes only. We still don't know anything about the later WFC lines, which could reuse molds a la CW/PotP. I think they'd be nuts not to release all the Datsun boys; that's just leaving money on the table.

And I never qualified restriction to mass retail only, it would be perfectly reasonable to see Bluestreak as an exclusive, for example.

If Barricade is in fact a G1 version of the movie character, I hope we see more line hoppers. I would love a RiD Strongarm retooled from someone like Hound, or a Cybertronian Slipstream. That said, I want a complete 1985 CHUG lineup, so I'm more interested in all of the Autobot cars in WfC first.

If we do get a Cybertronian Slipstream, that'll be an instant buy from me. I don't care for how Starscream looks but I'll support any Slipstream figure just because of TFA

[Skritz]

Also, theory: if the line is called 'War for Cybertron' but the first one in the trilogy supposedly depict the final days of the war, perhaps the implied 'story' of the line is to be taken has starting in-media res. Which is to say, it start right in the middle of the ending and then the other two lines 'flashback' to the start and middle of the war.

Because otherwise it make no sense to market the entire trilogy as War for Cybertron if the war is already over.

[Sentinel_Primal]

Also, theory: if the line is called 'War for Cybertron' but the first one in the trilogy supposedly depict the final days of the war, perhaps the implied 'story' of the line is to be taken has starting in-media res. Which is to say, it start right in the middle of the ending and then the other two lines 'flashback' to the start and middle of the war.

Because otherwise it make no sense to market the entire trilogy as War for Cybertron if the war is already over.

I had two thoughts on how this could be handled. One was that the trilogy would be similar to the games where the first one still has hope of being able to stay on Cybertron, the second part would be them desperate to win so they look for more powerful options (like Powermasters or maybe Brainmasters), and then the third part sees them attempting to flee like Fall of Cybertron. My other thought was that it could be the three Cybertron settings where we know conflict occurs. The last days before the war moved to Earth, the second part being post Rebirth, and the final part being the Pax Cybertronia where we see the Maximals and Predacons with Cybertronian vehicle modes and no beast modes. Though, your theory definitely sounds more likely

[Skritz]

Also, theory: if the line is called 'War for Cybertron' but the first one in the trilogy supposedly depict the final days of the war, perhaps the implied 'story' of the line is to be taken has starting in-media res. Which is to say, it start right in the middle of the ending and then the other two lines 'flashback' to the start and middle of the war.

Because otherwise it make no sense to market the entire trilogy as War for Cybertron if the war is already over.

I had two thoughts on how this could be handled. One was that the trilogy would be similar to the games where the first one still has hope of being able to stay on Cybertron, the second part would be them desperate to win so they look for more powerful options (like Powermasters or maybe Brainmasters), and then the third part sees them attempting to flee like Fall of Cybertron. My other thought was that it could be the three Cybertron settings where we know conflict occurs. The last days before the war moved to Earth, the second part being post Rebirth, and the final part being the Pax Cybertronia where we see the Maximals and Predacons with Cybertronian vehicle modes and no beast modes. Though, your theory definitely sounds more likely

We just had Optimal Optimus: to Warden, that's 'enough Beast Wars for a life time'.

[Nemesis Primal]

-That leave Hound who I'm unsure he would get retooled as, given he had no mainline retool in G1, with only the E-Hobby exclusive Detritus. My theory is its either Ironfist or Roadbuster.
-Theory: Barricade, if he does indeed turn into a police car, is a retool of an unseen mold. Either a Sunstreaker or the Mirage that is supposed to be in a wave 'opposed' to Ironfist.

1. Don't forget that Hound's box art that Takara showed had a Cybertron Defense Hot Shot head, so that's also a possibility.
2. Mirage is against Impactor, not Ironfist (although I figure that you already know that and just mistyped).

We just had Optimal Optimus: to Warden, that's 'enough Beast Wars for a life time'.

OpOp still hasn't shown up at retail everywhere yet, so I'd argue we haven't actually had him yet.
Also, more Beast Wars anyways please, Warden, surprise us.

[Sabrblade]

Also, more Beast Wars anyways please, Warden, surprise us.

Warden: "They are cool, aren't they? I hear Takara's doing some pretty neat Beast stuff in their Masterpiece line. You should check that out. Oh, and speaking of Masterpiece, we're gonna bring over Takara's G1 cartoon-colored Prowl. Everyone loves G1. Here, check out our Siege line with all its G1 goodness. We really wanted to do right by G1, making everyone look really faithful to G1 in robot mode, especially these G1 characters, from G1, who look really G1, in this G1 line, based on G1..."

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

I like Beast Wars a fair bit. A great show with great toys. I haven't seen any of RiD (2001) other than snippets I managed to catch on TV when it was on the air (I didn't actively follow), but I own some of the toys and I've seen the others. They're cool.
However, I'm not too sad about the dearth of Beast Wars or RiD 2001 figures in the Generations line. For a simple reason:
THEY DON'T NEED UPDATES ANYWHERE NEAR AS BADLY!!!

Beast Wars and RiD (2001) set the standards for articulation that later lines are judged by, and the original toys are for the most part already more or less in line with modern scaling. And in some cases (particularly Leader-class figures), we'd probably get a smaller and somewhat dumbed-down remake of a toy that was just fine as-is.

G1, on the other hand? The scale of the original toys was all over the place, and the Diaclone molds are dwarfed by most modern TFs that turn into cars of the same relative size. There's also the fact that a lot of them are bricks. The G1 characters are the ones most in need of being brought up to modern standards and size, and continue to get made as a trial-and-error process, of coming up with more polished modern versions of their toys and of back-and-forth over what design direction to take. And also covering characters who hadn't been done before, of course.

[-Kanrabat-]

Still waiting for some TRUE Updates to Apeface and Snapdragon.

[Sentinel_Primal]

I like Beast Wars a fair bit. A great show with great toys. I haven't seen any of RiD (2001) other than snippets I managed to catch on TV when it was on the air (I didn't actively follow), but I own some of the toys and I've seen the others. They're cool.
However, I'm not too sad about the dearth of Beast Wars or RiD 2001 figures in the Generations line. For a simple reason:
THEY DON'T NEED UPDATES ANYWHERE NEAR AS BADLY!!!

Beast Wars and RiD (2001) set the standards for articulation that later lines are judged by, and the original toys are for the most part already more or less in line with modern scaling. And in some cases (particularly Leader-class figures), we'd probably get a smaller and somewhat dumbed-down remake of a toy that was just fine as-is.

G1, on the other hand? The scale of the original toys was all over the place, and the Diaclone molds are dwarfed by most modern TFs that turn into cars of the same relative size. There's also the fact that a lot of them are bricks. The G1 characters are the ones most in need of being brought up to modern standards and size, and continue to get made as a trial-and-error process, of coming up with more polished modern versions of their toys and of back-and-forth over what design direction to take. And also covering characters who hadn't been done before, of course.

I acknowledge that G1 needs an update. However Hasbro typically sticks with the ones who sell. Granted, they've gotten better lately with the return of Duocons and more obscure characters, but there's only so many times Optimus Prime can be released before it gets tiresome and for me personally, that was about 5 Primes ago. Plus there are characters from the beast era that need new figures because they've disintegrated by now due to GPS like Silverbolt or Transmetal Megatron or they're like G1 and are bricks like the Armada toyline

[Wireless_Phantom]

I like Beast Wars a fair bit. A great show with great toys. I haven't seen any of RiD (2001) other than snippets I managed to catch on TV when it was on the air (I didn't actively follow), but I own some of the toys and I've seen the others. They're cool.
However, I'm not too sad about the dearth of Beast Wars or RiD 2001 figures in the Generations line. For a simple reason:
THEY DON'T NEED UPDATES ANYWHERE NEAR AS BADLY!!!

Beast Wars and RiD (2001) set the standards for articulation that later lines are judged by, and the original toys are for the most part already more or less in line with modern scaling. And in some cases (particularly Leader-class figures), we'd probably get a smaller and somewhat dumbed-down remake of a toy that was just fine as-is.

G1, on the other hand? The scale of the original toys was all over the place, and the Diaclone molds are dwarfed by most modern TFs that turn into cars of the same relative size. There's also the fact that a lot of them are bricks. The G1 characters are the ones most in need of being brought up to modern standards and size, and continue to get made as a trial-and-error process, of coming up with more polished modern versions of their toys and of back-and-forth over what design direction to take. And also covering characters who hadn't been done before, of course.

I mostly agree with you, but the G1 well (especially the early G1 well) is running dry. In particular, I think a lot of Beast Wars could use affordable updates. Especially designs like Tiger-Hawk and Blackarachnia. I think we should still have Generations stick to G1 for now, but a few more Beast Wars figures coming up wouldn't hurt.

[Emerje]

Warden promised at SDCC that he's going to prove he's a Beast Wars and Armada fan in the coming years so we'll have to see what happens by the end of WfC.

Also I wonder if it's possible Barricade would be based on Wheeljack or Tracks, losers from the previous fan poll and definitely not happening in Siege, so they can turn around and make them later in the trilogy with ready-made molds.

Emerje

[Skritz]

We just had Optimal Optimus: to Warden, that's 'enough Beast Wars for a life time'.

OpOp still hasn't shown up at retail everywhere yet, so I'd argue we haven't actually had him yet.
Also, more Beast Wars anyways please, Warden, surprise us.

Wut? I got him right next to me on my computer desk!

[Cyberpath]

Aww, these won't be out till Feb-Mar 2019.

[Wolfman Jake]

Also, more Beast Wars anyways please, Warden, surprise us.

Warden: "They are cool, aren't they? I hear Takara's doing some pretty neat Beast stuff in their Masterpiece line. You should check that out. Oh, and speaking of Masterpiece, we're gonna bring over Takara's G1 cartoon-colored Prowl. Everyone loves G1. Here, check out our Siege line with all its G1 goodness. We really wanted to do right by G1, making everyone look really faithful to G1 in robot mode, especially these G1 characters, from G1, who look really G1, in this G1 line, based on G1..."

Warden is so cryptic, isn't he? I wish I knew how he really feels about G1.

[Skritz]

Warden is just a product of the current 'pop culture exploitation' business: Transformers became a hit again in 2007, with the movies, bringing back into the fold many older fans who by then were in their thirties and forties with a lot more disposable income. At the same time, Transformers got a whole new wave of happy consumer consisting of little kids and parents buying them Transformers merch. Also around that time (or rather, a little before on 2005) IDW rose up with the Transformers comics. While this has led to many great things (Animated, the WFC games, Prime and the current Generations lines) I worry about the brand in the long run. And what is my worry, you ask?

Stagnation.

While for a time this whole idea of using G1 nostalgia, marketable characters and reinventing big names was good for most of this decade I worry that in the long run the brand and, by extension, the media surrounding (be it cartoon, comics and toylines) will increasingly stagnate if it remain under the leadership of the current Hasbro crop. There is only so many times they can purely rehash Generation 1 before the brand gets too stale. What we need is something back like in the days of the Unicron trilogy: enough recognizable brand characters but new ideas and new character or new design for older characters, like what Animated did.

To me there is a fine balancing act between nostalgia-grab and boring stagnation, which the Prime Wars trilogy IMO walked quite well. However, if after Siege we just get yet another Generations line with nothing but '84 to '86 bots (but with earth modes....again!) then there will be a problem. Right now this isn't quite the stagnation and going into circles because we still got enough interesting updates but what I'm trying to say is: after such a nostalgia-pandering line they'll have to shake things or end up boring the older fans. I like what Siege does from production and engineering standpoint but anyone familiar with my posts will know that my 'buy list' only include day one G1 characters who simply did not have a decent/up to my taste.

I can tolerate Siege because there's still good stuff left to milk off GEEWUN. But after that line? They need to really shake things up.

Edit: For the record I am 100% aware that I am willingly participating in said pop culture milking. My point is that if they start doing the same characters over and over they will lose collectors like me (or older) if they release an Optimus/Megatron/Starscream/Bumblebee/Ironhide every single line after Siege. There is no point for collectors to constantly buy the same character barring, maybe, the new one being such a massive improvement.

[Nemesis Primal]

I like Beast Wars a fair bit. A great show with great toys. I haven't seen any of RiD (2001) other than snippets I managed to catch on TV when it was on the air (I didn't actively follow), but I own some of the toys and I've seen the others. They're cool.
However, I'm not too sad about the dearth of Beast Wars or RiD 2001 figures in the Generations line. For a simple reason:
THEY DON'T NEED UPDATES ANYWHERE NEAR AS BADLY!!!

Beast Wars and RiD (2001) set the standards for articulation that later lines are judged by, and the original toys are for the most part already more or less in line with modern scaling. And in some cases (particularly Leader-class figures), we'd probably get a smaller and somewhat dumbed-down remake of a toy that was just fine as-is.

G1, on the other hand? The scale of the original toys was all over the place, and the Diaclone molds are dwarfed by most modern TFs that turn into cars of the same relative size. There's also the fact that a lot of them are bricks. The G1 characters are the ones most in need of being brought up to modern standards and size, and continue to get made as a trial-and-error process, of coming up with more polished modern versions of their toys and of back-and-forth over what design direction to take. And also covering characters who hadn't been done before, of course.

Oh, I'm not trying to deny that G1 figures need updates, that much is a given. My complaint is Warden's insistence so far on turning Transformers Generations into Transformers Generation 1 Mini-Masterpiece Edition, and that even though he is branching out to try to do all of the lesser-known/not yet remade stuff like the Headmasters and Combiners and such, we still can't get a line without a bunch of the original cast AGAIN, often at the cost of other more unique characters, like how we got two lines worth of Combiners with no Seacons, but TWO Optimus Prime combiner torsos and over two sets of OG Autobot cast combiner limbs, not counting exclusives. We don't NEED 20 million G1 Optimus Primes and Megatrons and Bumblebees, just make more unique stuff like Ironfist and Barricade and BW Inferno and such instead.

The reasons why I want Beast Wars specifically:
-GPS is a thing of the past, and many figures could use new version now without it.
-A decent chunk of those figures, while mostly good, really don't resemble the characters as they appeared in the show because of the liberties the animators had to take with the designs, so we're missing accurate versions of show cast members like Terrosaur.
-Beast Wars happened before I existed, so if I want representations of more than three/four of those characters, my only option is to head to eBay and try to find ones that are actually decently priced and not broken, which is especially difficult in terms of Transmetals and for someone on a college budget.
-The only Beast Wars characters who really HAVE gotten non-Fub Pub updates are a select number of show characters, when there are easily other Beast Wars designs that weren't in the show that would be amazing to see remade, meanwhile we're already getting/have gotten a bunch of G1 characters updated that were never in the show for varying reasons like Whirl, Roadbuster, Chop Shop, and now Micromasters.

TL;DR: Stop remaking the same 1/6th of the G1 toyline over again and stick to characters who haven't been updated yet, and stop making Generations only actually about one Generation.

We just had Optimal Optimus: to Warden, that's 'enough Beast Wars for a life time'.

OpOp still hasn't shown up at retail everywhere yet, so I'd argue we haven't actually had him yet.
Also, more Beast Wars anyways please, Warden, surprise us.

Wut? I got him right next to me on my computer desk!

Rub it in, why don't you. At least Wreck-Gar is apparently finally here in the US now...

[Skritz]

For the record you also won't see me complain about Reflector being a thing again. Why? Because in spite of being as early G1 as they get they are characters who never really got much love.

[ZeroWolf]

Warden is just a product of the current 'pop culture exploitation' business: Transformers became a hit again in 2007, with the movies, bringing back into the fold many older fans who by then were in their thirties and forties with a lot more disposable income. At the same time, Transformers got a whole new wave of happy consumer consisting of little kids and parents buying them Transformers merch. Also around that time (or rather, a little before on 2005) IDW rose up with the Transformers comics. While this has led to many great things (Animated, the WFC games, Prime and the current Generations lines) I worry about the brand in the long run. And what is my worry, you ask?

Stagnation.

While for a time this whole idea of using G1 nostalgia, marketable characters and reinventing big names was good for most of this decade I worry that in the long run the brand and, by extension, the media surrounding (be it cartoon, comics and toylines) will increasingly stagnate if it remain under the leadership of the current Hasbro crop. There is only so many times they can purely rehash Generation 1 before the brand gets too stale. What we need is something back like in the days of the Unicron trilogy: enough recognizable brand characters but new ideas and new character or new design for older characters, like what Animated did.

To me there is a fine balancing act between nostalgia-grab and boring stagnation, which the Prime Wars trilogy IMO walked quite well. However, if after Siege we just get yet another Generations line with nothing but '84 to '86 bots (but with earth modes....again!) then there will be a problem. Right now this isn't quite the stagnation and going into circles because we still got enough interesting updates but what I'm trying to say is: after such a nostalgia-pandering line they'll have to shake things or end up boring the older fans. I like what Siege does from production and engineering standpoint but anyone familiar with my posts will know that my 'buy list' only include day one G1 characters who simply did not have a decent/up to my taste.

I can tolerate Siege because there's still good stuff left to milk off GEEWUN. But after that line? They need to really shake things up.

Edit: For the record I am 100% aware that I am willingly participating in said pop culture milking. My point is that if they start doing the same characters over and over they will lose collectors like me (or older) if they release an Optimus/Megatron/Starscream/Bumblebee/Ironhide every single line after Siege. There is no point for collectors to constantly buy the same character barring, maybe, the new one being such a massive improvement.

This. So much this. Good post Skritz, you said it better than I could ever have

[Nemesis Primal]

This. So much this. Good post Skritz, you said it better than I could ever have

Seconded, my separate sleep-deprived rant pales in comparison.

[Skritz]

This. So much this. Good post Skritz, you said it better than I could ever have

Thank you. I wish I was this eloquent IRL!

By the way, even as a diehard Beast Wars fan I don't think I'd ever want a Beast Wars line that is just rehash and updates. Especially not for a BW-inspired line, since the original line had some crazy shakeup ever year with Transmetal, Fuzor and Transmetal 2. All with distinct esthetic. While I understand you'd obviously need a Beast Wars line to have Beast Wars characters to me it would be a waste of time, money and plastic to just redo everything 1:1. For the main cast? Oh sure, I could see that happening and in fact Generations already did it for Rhinox, Rattrap, Waspinator and Optimal Optimus.

However for a new Beast Wars line I'd welcome either completely new design or radical redesign of G1 characters with beast modes, be they completely organic beast modes or something like Transmetals, the latter of which would fit very well with the existing animal and monster-bots of the current Generations line. I'm not against figures of pre-existing characters with a new spin, especially not if its a good figure. That said, there are so many cool animals in real life that a hypothetical new Beast Wars line could sell itself purely on the crazy experimentation Hasbro could do (Crab Ironhide, anyone?) with about a quarter of the line being show characters. There is endless variety in animals and Hasbro's engineering has gone a very, very long way to make this possible and great-looking. An example of that would be TR Mindwipe.

So no, I don't think a 'New Beast Wars' line need to completely rehash the old toyline simply because there is a whole trilogy worth of unique and amazing designs they could do, double so if they bring in crazier and weirder ideas like Fuzor (who have endless potential) or maybe even Beast triple-changers.

Right now, IMO, the only Beast Wars guy who badly need an update is Megatron, especially his Dragon form since we got Optimal Optimus. Hell, that's another idea: organic mythical animals as a subline! Griffin transformers. Chimera transformers! Hydras and cerberus. Seriously, there is a ton of potential for a BW line without needing to redo the actual toyline.