The Energon Pub

Welcome to the latest episode of the Seibertron.com Twincast / Podcast! This episode features your host ScottyP and his merry marauders, Megatronus, RodimusConvoy13, Razorclaw, and Counterpunch - listen in as we discuss the latest news, toys, and more.

Episode #164 "Getaway Was Right" is available directly and in our RSS Feed, and should appear on iTunes and Stitcher Radio within 24 to 48 hours of when you see this news post.

We kick off the podcast with the latest images of upcoming Titans Return Krok & Quake. What does the crew think of Titans Return now that the inevitable onslaught of repaints has begun, and how does the previously utilized strategy of pre-tools color our hindsight view of Combiner Wars?



Time for some old fashioned Takara goodness with a discussion of the Legends line. We've got Soundwave + cassettes on the brain, along with Super Ginrai and anime-style Brainstorm. How do these figures compare to their Hasbro counterparts, and which are worth double dipping for?

You can check out more awesome comparison images like the one below by Seibertronian Logan. in this thread!



We jump right into a round of awesome listener questions. Optimuspete asks us about our collection sizes, william-james88 asks which we like to transform more, TR or RID deluxes, and SW's SilverHammer asks whether Evangelion would have been better if MP10 Eva mode was canon. Thanks for the questions, listeners.



We take a slight detour to discuss the recently revealed Movie Masterpiece Bumblebee, and then Combiner Force Crash Combiners. Do we view either of these with anticipation, or with a lurking sense of disappointment?



On a more serious note: Mastermind Creations Tarn and their many IDW styled releases like him, a missed opportunity for Hasbro? With the popularity of More Than Meets the Eye and other ongoing comics, is the continued reliance on obscure G1 (see Krok & Quake, above) sustainable? Does the MP-ification of Generations leave an opening for 3rd Parties that Hasbro will have difficulty wresting back?



Enough of comics characters - let's get on to some actual comics. Revolutionaries is hitting stands, and the Twincast has plenty opinions on this crossover. Most of them... unkind. We love hearing from you - let us know your thoughts in the forums below.



Was Getaway right? That's the burning question on our minds as we await for Lost Light #2, with the namesake topic of this episode arriving at last. With the expected eventual reappearance of the mutineers, we debate their controversial actions. Was their betrayal a well intended effort, a malicious revenge plot, or something else? Regardless of the motivation, was it the right move? Was Megatron sorry all along and truly misunderstood by a large portion of the ship's crew? You can even let us know where you stand on this using social media with the hashtags #GetawayWasRight or #MegatronWasSorry.



Bragging Rights is here. What has everyone gotten since their last recording?



We'll be back in approximately two weeks to wildly speculate on Toy Fair 2017, talk about next week's comics like Optimus Prime #3, and much more!

aka, the episode that triggered Va'al into a whirling dervish of destruction.

thanks a lot guys for answering my question, to clarify a little bit about how I count my collection and what I collect the color variants I mentioned are the music label Rumble and frenzy headphones for obvious reasons and the Energon Maximus combiners... Because they force you to get color variants to complete the combiners. Also of course mini cons and smaller Transformers that come with bigger Transformers count as their own figure. Also no third-party or knock-offs, no non transforming Transformers because WTF, and none of the Playskool/ Rescue Bots... but I'm getting pretty damn close two having one of every official mold from 1984 through till now... also I could definitely use the help tracking down the rest of the molds that I need for reasonable prices if you guys are willing to help?

optimuspete wrote:thanks a lot guys for answering my question, to clarify a little bit about how I count my collection and what I collect the color variants I mentioned are the music label Rumble and frenzy headphones for obvious reasons and the Energon Maximus combiners... Because they force you to get color variants to complete the combiners. Also of course mini cons and smaller Transformers that come with bigger Transformers count as their own figure. Also no third-party or knock-offs, no non transforming Transformers because WTF, and none of the Playskool/ Rescue Bots... but I'm getting pretty damn close two having one of every official mold from 1984 through till now... also I could definitely use the help tracking down the rest of the molds that I need for reasonable prices if you guys are willing to help?

That's awesome! I'm not a G1 collector (I have a select few reissues, but nothing more), but I have a lot of respect for the time and effort required to reach the achievement you're working towards.

I'm primarily a Generations (and whatever will fit into Generations from other lines) + Masterpiece collector. I might have ventured into previous lines, but my Marvel Legends and Star Wars Black Series habits (and growing Mezco One:12 effort) means I have to draw the line somewhere. New releases only!

Ok, two comments overall:

- James Bond is also a dick, and the comparison just made me realise why I dislike Getaway so much: he's just a 'I am douche trope who fakes the cool factor because fiction is RIFE WITH MY TROPE and manboys love to be me'. All of the previous conversations about everyone else also being a dick still stand, and I do agree that the Rod Squad are Not Nice People. I said it before on Twitter, and stand by it now.

Counterpunch wrote:aka, the episode that triggered Va'al into a whirling dervish of destruction.

I know not what you speak of.




- A question for the Twincast: a lot of talk about toys to come out of comics-only/comics-first characters, as part of the 3P discussion - but do we need toys to happen, necessarily? I know what the franchise is, I know what came first, I know what the fandom is, I know I'm part of the other side of it, not really buying toys (my current count is fewer than 30). But do we need physical action figure manifestations of fictional characters to enjoy the character? How does it make our/your enjoyment of the figure better, added value, what have you?

Va'al wrote:Ok, two comments overall:

- James Bond is also a dick, and the comparison just made me realise why I dislike Getaway so much: he's just a 'I am douche trope who fakes the cool factor because fiction is RIFE WITH MY TROPE and manboys love to be me'. All of the previous conversations about everyone else also being a dick still stand, and I do agree that the Rod Squad are Not Nice People. I said it before on Twitter, and stand by it now.

Counterpunch wrote:aka, the episode that triggered Va'al into a whirling dervish of destruction.

I know not what you speak of.




- A question for the Twincast: a lot of talk about toys to come out of comics-only/comics-first characters, as part of the 3P discussion - but do we need toys to happen, necessarily? I know what the franchise is, I know what came first, I know what the fandom is, I know I'm part of the other side of it, not really buying toys (my current count is fewer than 30). But do we need physical action figure manifestations of fictional characters to enjoy the character? How does it make our/your enjoyment of the figure better, added value, what have you?

I don't need to have a figure of Tarn or Megatron to enjoy the character. However, this is my favorite incarnation of Megatron. I'd love to have an official MTMTE Megatron figure. Same with Rodimus. When I used to collect DC Direct figures I was so stoked to get the Tim Sale inspired Long Halloween Batman. I loved that story, I loved the art. To have it in 3 dimensions was just awesome. I'd like the same for MTMTE.

RodimusConvoy13 wrote:

Va'al wrote:A question for the Twincast: a lot of talk about toys to come out of comics-only/comics-first characters, as part of the 3P discussion - but do we need toys to happen, necessarily? I know what the franchise is, I know what came first, I know what the fandom is, I know I'm part of the other side of it, not really buying toys (my current count is fewer than 30). But do we need physical action figure manifestations of fictional characters to enjoy the character? How does it make our/your enjoyment of the figure better, added value, what have you?

I don't need to have a figure of Tarn or Megatron to enjoy the character. However, this is my favorite incarnation of Megatron. I'd love to have an official MTMTE Megatron figure. Same with Rodimus. When I used to collect DC Direct figures I was so stoked to get the Tim Sale inspired Long Halloween Batman. I loved that story, I loved the art. To have it in 3 dimensions was just awesome. I'd like the same for MTMTE.

Ok, I get that. But why? Why more enjoyment in the 3D representation of fiction?

Va'al wrote:A question for the Twincast: a lot of talk about toys to come out of comics-only/comics-first characters, as part of the 3P discussion - but do we need toys to happen, necessarily? I know what the franchise is, I know what came first, I know what the fandom is, I know I'm part of the other side of it, not really buying toys (my current count is fewer than 30). But do we need physical action figure manifestations of fictional characters to enjoy the character? How does it make our/your enjoyment of the figure better, added value, what have you?

Not necessarily, no - but to not have a physical embodiment of the comic characters would break the virtuous cycle.

Note that it's not necessarily a 'toys-first' mindset, but rather a recognition of the dual nature of the brand (embodied in the dual nature of the characters/toys themselves). You've probably heard plenty of the podcast members talk about how a character was a meaningless throwaway to them, until fiction justified their existence. The opposite is equally true; just as the fiction validates an existing toy, a toy validates the existing fiction. They give each other a heightened sense of importance and permanence. So, no, toys of these fictional characters aren't necessary, but, yes, they do enrich our appreciation of the fiction in a meaningful way.

megatronus wrote:They give each other a heightened sense of importance and permanence. So, no, toys of these fictional characters aren't necessary, but, yes, they do enrich our appreciation of the fiction in a meaningful way.

Ok ok, I think I'm questioning myself, too - as I have done a number of times in the Collecting Why Wherefore WTF thread.

I suppose my question is, then, how does it enrich that experience? Do you replay the fiction? Do you act it out? Do you look at it from other angles?

Va'al wrote:how does it enrich that experience?

Magic?

megatronus wrote:

Va'al wrote:how does it enrich that experience?

Magic?

Like... Winnie the Pooh or Calvin & Hobbes.

It's likely a very primal thing; think of a kid reading Where the Wild Things Are while holding tight to their plush wild thing. Except we're grown, hairy men (and women).

megatronus wrote:

megatronus wrote:

Va'al wrote:how does it enrich that experience?

Magic?

Like... Winnie the Pooh or Calvin & Hobbes.

It's likely a very primal thing; think of a kid reading Where the Wild Things Are while holding tight to their plush wild thing. Except we're grown, hairy men (and women).

So you play with them while 'consuming'/enjoying the fiction?

Va'al wrote:

megatronus wrote:

megatronus wrote:

Va'al wrote:how does it enrich that experience?

Magic?

Like... Winnie the Pooh or Calvin & Hobbes.

It's likely a very primal thing; think of a kid reading Where the Wild Things Are while holding tight to their plush wild thing. Except we're grown, hairy men (and women).

So you play with them while 'consuming'/enjoying the fiction?

Best. GIF. Ever.

No, I don't do that. Maybe others do. If most of my toys were out on a shelf, maybe I would. But a physical presence provides a more palpable connection. A long distance vs. live-in relationship.

Va'al wrote:

RodimusConvoy13 wrote:

Va'al wrote:A question for the Twincast: a lot of talk about toys to come out of comics-only/comics-first characters, as part of the 3P discussion - but do we need toys to happen, necessarily? I know what the franchise is, I know what came first, I know what the fandom is, I know I'm part of the other side of it, not really buying toys (my current count is fewer than 30). But do we need physical action figure manifestations of fictional characters to enjoy the character? How does it make our/your enjoyment of the figure better, added value, what have you?

I don't need to have a figure of Tarn or Megatron to enjoy the character. However, this is my favorite incarnation of Megatron. I'd love to have an official MTMTE Megatron figure. Same with Rodimus. When I used to collect DC Direct figures I was so stoked to get the Tim Sale inspired Long Halloween Batman. I loved that story, I loved the art. To have it in 3 dimensions was just awesome. I'd like the same for MTMTE.

Ok, I get that. But why? Why more enjoyment in the 3D representation of fiction?

This is actually a really good question.

It's a matter of the tangible.

When you enjoy a book or a show, there is only so much you can do with it. There are only so many times you can re-watch, re-read, and re-absorb the thing that you find pleasure in.

Set aside imagining new stories, shows, and fan-fiction for a moment here...

When you own the figure, you own a little piece of that story that you can see and touch. It's something you can investigate, transform, interact with, and yes, I suppose play with.

I can't imagine not having the figures to go along with my Transformers fiction. Being able to investigate all those cool designs, seeing how they work, and using imagination to bridge the gap between physical and fictional is what this hobby is all about to me.

When I was much younger, it was about actually having adventures for many characters. Vroom, Crossblades, and Thunderwing's inner robots were some of my main jams. I don't remember what the story was around them anymore, but they were the main heroes.

Admittedly, there have been times where it was habitual. There have been others where it's been curiosity - how does Robot X go from that to Alt Mode Y? Yet other times where it was the thrill of the chase, or even something to quell a boring afternoon. There's the puzzle aspect, the part where I get to build a display, tear it down months or years later, then rebuild anew. There's the "bring fiction to reality" side where I can recreate a scene from a show or book, and that's fun. There's the side of meticulous analysis of minor variants, wondering about the reasoning for certain choices of application on one version as opposed to another. Really, there's no one reason for me, other than I guess it's just an automatic thought since it's always improved my enjoyment of the material in abstract ways.

That said, I can do without minor characters, which is why Generations' direction in 2013 only partially scratched the itch. Part of wanting the major IDW characters as toys for me now is looking at this huge collection with representations of the icons of the brand, sometimes in two dozen different flavors, and wanting to know where my bots are. Rodimus and the Wreckers and yes, sometimes even the DJD are like the home team as of late, but the only jerseys I can find for some of them are knockoffs that some guy is selling outside the stadium and they mostly look cool but they still cost too much and technically aren't the real deal.

Video clip below is relevant but also nsfw/offensive/etc

Counterpunch wrote:It's a matter of the tangible.

[...]

When you own the figure, you own a little piece of that story that you can see and touch. It's something you can investigate, transform, interact with, and yes, I suppose play with.

I can't imagine not having the figures to go along with my Transformers fiction.

Would you apply this to all the fiction you enjoy though? If you move out of TFs, and say, into a comics series that has no action figures or statues or replicas or merch to go with it, or even a book series - would you still be wanting the tangible, used to as you are to want that little bit more?

ScottyP wrote:Part of wanting the major IDW characters as toys for me now is looking at this huge collection with representations of the icons of the brand, sometimes in two dozen different flavors, and wanting to know where my bots are.

So really not that dissimilar to wanting to fill in 'gaps' in the fiction itself, or finding a way to expand that story that is already set. How can you have them step out of the book to be able to connect with them more, further, differently. If I am reading this correctly, that is.

(Brief aside on Overwatch sexy fan art, via Idea Channel.)

megatronus wrote:No, I don't do that. Maybe others do. If most of my toys were out on a shelf, maybe I would. But a physical presence provides a more palpable connection. A long distance vs. live-in relationship.

I can see that, but I find myself mostly just playing about with characters - lately anyway - that have no fiction at all, or in ways that have nothing to with it anyway. It borders on visual fanfic I suppose, or plastic fan art. Hm.



Entirely different note: does riding an EVA train make you smell like your mum?

Counterpunch wrote:aka, the episode that triggered Va'al into a whirling dervish of destruction.

I feel a story here. Perhaps a new convo topic for the cast?

Ironhidensh wrote::SICK:

Counterpunch wrote:aka, the episode that triggered Va'al into a whirling dervish of destruction.

I feel a story here. Perhaps a new convo topic for the cast?

Ha, it was just referring to my conversation on Twitter on the same topic (Getaway), where I got a little heated in my responses. Same contents as above really!

Va'al wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote::SICK:

Counterpunch wrote:aka, the episode that triggered Va'al into a whirling dervish of destruction.

I feel a story here. Perhaps a new convo topic for the cast?

Ha, it was just referring to my conversation on Twitter on the same topic (Getaway), where I got a little heated in my responses. Same contents as above really!

Well, I'll have to twit stalk you then. I'm a curious cat.

Ironhidensh wrote:twit stalk

That... does not sound right.

Va'al wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:It's a matter of the tangible.

[...]

When you own the figure, you own a little piece of that story that you can see and touch. It's something you can investigate, transform, interact with, and yes, I suppose play with.

I can't imagine not having the figures to go along with my Transformers fiction.

Would you apply this to all the fiction you enjoy though? If you move out of TFs, and say, into a comics series that has no action figures or statues or replicas or merch to go with it, or even a book series - would you still be wanting the tangible, used to as you are to want that little bit more?

Almost all of it to be honest.

When I read Marvel books seriously, I collected Marvel Legends. When I regularly consumed new anime, I was buying figures and Figmas. When a game comes out that I am truly captured by, I tend to get into the merch (although less so nowadays).

I should point out that a lack of stuff for a property doesn't necessarily diminish my enjoyment, it can usually only help to make that franchise a bit more fun.

I've actually had to consciously pull back from these habits in recent years. I've been trying to think very hard and consider whether I will still feel strongly about a property in a few years prior to a purchase. This has actually helped me to self evaluate how I engage in my hobbies to some degree and place more value on the things, stories, and toys I care most about.

Counterpunch wrote:I should point out that a lack of stuff for a property doesn't necessarily diminish my enjoyment, it can usually only help to make that franchise a bit more fun.

That is what I was looking for, in the questions, I think. The idea of supplement rather than complement - it's a non-necessary but very welcome addition, yes?

Like a fan-reference in a movie, that does not remove from the enjoyment or understanding of the film for a non-hardcore fan, but gives that extra kick if one is 'in the know' - an imperfect parallel, but I hope it helped a little in my comparison.

On topic: where is this site some if you were talking about to count your collection?


Off topic: with regards to the last few posts, I'm starting to notice a growing trend in several of us "older" collectors to scale back and refocus are habits. Just a product of age?

Ironhidensh wrote:On topic: where is this site some if you were talking about to count your collection?

I believe several podcasters mentioned shmax: https://www.shmax.com/

I just count by hand - it's 51 figures, with more trimming to happen soon.

Off topic: with regards to the last few posts, I'm starting to notice a growing trend in several of us "older" collectors to scale back and refocus are habits. Just a product of age?

Ooooh, interesting prod there. It does seem to come up more and more with older fans, or fans who have been collecting for longer - though with the size of some of the collections, I'm not sure to what extent it can be applied.

In fact, a lot of new toy buyers have really tiny, really specific tastes and collections, reflecting themes and trends that catch their eye (comics, cartoon, head canons). So.. I dunno. Definitely maybe!

Ironhidensh wrote:On topic: where is this site some if you were talking about to count your collection?


Off topic: with regards to the last few posts, I'm starting to notice a growing trend in several of us "older" collectors to scale back and refocus are habits. Just a product of age?

Two things...

Space. I have a house now with a generously sized room for my collection. That's it though. It can't get bigger than that. So I have to consider carefully what is worthy of shelf real estate in a final kind of manner.

Choices. Years ago, it was possible, even common to collect everything. These days, it simply is not. There are so many options and products that if you don't think and really plan out what you care about, you end up with a lot that you couldn't care less about.