The Energon Pub

[Elcor]

Since all recordings from the times long ago had been deleted (BTW, could it mean that we all have had a Hate Plague and The Wisdom of the Ages had been spent on us? JK) , it'd be sensible to remind people here what ideas for implementing Gestalts were voiced before.

And what objections, too.

[Supercollider]

Augh! Ohh! Don't say that word..suffice to say is one of the words the Knights of Ni cannot hear!

[Lorekeeper]

Augh! Ohh! Don't say that word..suffice to say is one of the words the Knights of Ni cannot hear!

Let alone say!

Maybe around April 1st we'll see some Gestalt shtuff again.

[Omega Sentinel]

no no no no no no no

[Psychout]

And what objections, too.

sorry, couldnt resist

[Supercollider]

And what objections, too.

sorry, couldnt resist

ROFLMTO

[RobotInDisguise]

lol

Destrons, combine to form Combiner Convoy!

[Elcor]

And what objections, too.

sorry, couldnt resist

Well that was good!!!!!



But I've got another crasy idea in my head, which overcames that objection.

What if _the other five_ (or two, or four... whatever) just need to be Active and at 100% health? (I mean, in your Active roster).

Then, when the RNG decides it's time to use Gestalt Merge tactic, they join you and merge into a new creature (the properties of which I can describe later on, if somebody's interested). After the battle, all XP aquired and damage dealt goes to the first battler - it's just easier this way (though unrealistical somewhat, but we can skip that).

The idea itself is as follows:
1. You buy an upgrade - say, a Gestalt core module. For the sake of canon let's say there's:
3-gestalt core module for 150.000 energon
5-gestalt core module for 250.000 energon
6-gestalt core module for 300.000 energon (the prices are estimated, of course).

You cannot buy more than 1 of each modules.

2. For each Gestalt core module you've bought you have a special character window. First, you name a gestalt in that window and give him an outer appearance, than you select, what of your characters will be in that gestalt. Characters already being parts of another gestalt cannot be selected.

3. The sum of XP of your charactes who form the Gestalt is the Gestalt XP, which he uses to raise this or that stat the same way your average transformer do. Being an Action Master, Gestalt have no tactics, so all XP is spent between the 8 stats.

4. You can assign weapon and put armour on your gestalt much the same way you do with each of your bots. When the gestalt is reset the weapon goes into your pool, the armour is lost.

5. When you send one of your Transformers who's a part of a Gestalt into the battle, the RNG tells when he can merge with his other parts. If all the parts are available and at 100% health (anti-cheat), they merge and gestalt appears instead of character till the end of battle (or till he's destroyed).

6. As I've said before, all XP and damage is assigned only to first Transformer - the one who was actually sent into battle. The damage to other members of a gestalt I believe can be disregarded for the sake of simplicity of the game mechanics.

[steve2275]

not bad elcor

[Lorekeeper]

Actually, Elcor, that's a great idea.

The only thing would be it would have to be a gestalt-enabled (exclusive?) mission. Otherwise it would be patently unfair.

[Elcor]

The only thing would be it would have to be a gestalt-enabled (exclusive?) mission. Otherwise it would be patently unfair.

Not really unfair, you know.
A 6-gestalt is roughly equivalent of character 2 levels higher, and we've got crosslevel missions all the time.

[Lorekeeper]

The only thing would be it would have to be a gestalt-enabled (exclusive?) mission. Otherwise it would be patently unfair.

Not really unfair, you know.
A 6-gestalt is roughly equivalent of character 2 levels higher, and we've got crosslevel missions all the time.

Hmmmmm..... good point.

[Black Guardian]

That sounds like an incredibly complicated, but nevertheless amazing idea. Now, if we can only get a complete set of Seacon alt-modes I might consider totally changing my team. That Snaptrap's one hell of an operator.

You may think that as a huge Razorclaw fan, I'd want some Predacons, but, to be honest, the rest of them are all crap compared to Razorclaw (save Divebomb). Perhaps a gestalt of all the Decepticon team leaders - they're all favourites of mine. Although, I might have to scrap Scrapper for Hook, he's just so much more...charismatic.

[Mime]

Hey! I've got Divebomb. How about you give me Razorclaw?

[Knight Hawk]

Elcor I Love the idea, but shouldn't there be some sort of xp & damage distribution for those members that have to sit around at 100% and not in missions/arena battles to be able to form the gestalt. Also on that not shouldn't the other members, If said gestalt is beaten, go into the CR chamber as well? Its hard to say that only one member should get xp or take damage.


Edit : An idea may be distributional XP that can be distributed after the battle, and damage that is distributed after the battle as long as Gestalt was not put into Stasis Lock.

[Elcor]

Elcor I Love the idea, but shouldn't there be some sort of xp & damage distribution for those members that have to sit around at 100% and not in missions/arena battles to be able to form the gestalt. Also on that not shouldn't the other members, If said gestalt is beaten, go into the CR chamber as well? Its hard to say that only one member should get xp or take damage.

Edit : An idea may be distributional XP that can be distributed after the battle, and damage that is distributed after the battle as long as Gestalt was not put into Stasis Lock.

I know that, ans I've pointed it before. But I believe it'd be more difficult to calculate and issue battle damage and XP to characters who, technically speaking, weren't assigned to that mission...

[Black Guardian]

Hey! I've got Divebomb. How about you give me Razorclaw?

I think not! Unless you can get me a Snaptrap and a Sixshot (he's got enough alt-modes to furnish a gestalt team!). I've already got a Hun-grr. Should do more with him really...

[Knight Hawk]

I know that, and I've pointed it before. But I believe it'd be more difficult to calculate and issue battle damage and XP to characters who, technically speaking, weren't assigned to that mission...

Couldn't there be some sort of pooling system where after the battle the user gets "x" amount pooled xp and "y" amount pooled damage to distribute yourself? That way you could give all of it to one bot and the same with damage... however if the gestalt goes into stasis then all bots should go into stasis lock.

This way Xp gains could be divvied up or all given to one bot at the discretion of the user. Same goes with the damage (but there would need to be a multiplier on the damage because 90% damage to the gestalt would be a lot more to each individual than 90%). This way rewards could be split but so could damage.

[Redimus]

Im not particularly convinced by this idea, it dosnt really work for me at all.

I think the only way gestalts could work is if you have the ability to combine them yourself before you enter a mission.

you need to activite all the charecters who form the gestalt first, but then you combine them, and send the gestalt charecter into a mission.

Say you have a 5 charecter gestalt team.
Swindle, Brawl, Onslaught, Vortex and Blastoff. They can form Bruticus.

Now, you can activate all 5, and send them in different missions. If so they act as normal tfs, and get on with their missions.
OR
You can combine them, then send them into one mission. During that mission they cannot seperate, and are treated as one charecter.
Upside: you have a LOT more xp for you level, and a significant advantage (especilly if you have the only gestalt entered).
Downside: You have 5 slots taken up in one mission. You can only enter one other mission (with a tf in the 6th slot). Potentially, you could get shut out, thats 5 tfs taking 40 mins or what ever to get no xp each. Also, it is unlikly that one charecter in one mission is going to score as much as if each 5 charecters had had decent performances in all 5 of their missions.

The biggest advantage of this from a player's point of view over elcor's idea is you dont have to have 4 charecters active but not in missions in the off chance that Onslught in his mission manages to use his gestalt combine tactic.

As for how the level of the gestalt and the xp and stats would work out, I have no new or brilliant ideas on that.

EDIT:
Another thought occours.
You would still need a Gestalt Tactic.
This would proove an xp drain on the members, making them slightly weaker in individual missions. The tactic would:
1) allow the tea mto combine at all.
2) affect how the stats/xp work (ie lowest 'gestalt tactic =1 then times the overall xp by 0.5, 2 0.6 up to 10 times overall xp by 2, or soemthing like that).

[Elcor]

you need to activite all the charecters who form the gestalt first, but then you combine them, and send the gestalt charecter into a mission.

I've thought of it before presenting my idea.
The downside for me was the inability to decide how the damage and XP should be divided between gestalt members.

But other than that, I see no objections to implementing either your or mine idea.

[Ninjaburn]

Frankly, unless the whole idea of how missions are put together are fixed, this is basically what we are looking at...

(check out more at http://www.lilformers.com)

[Black Guardian]

That's genius!

[Crash]

I've put a good ten minutes of thought into this, and I think I've come up with an easy solution. And don't mind the condescending tone, I spent the last seven hours in the presence of snotty children.

Now...let's say, for example, you may spend X amount of Energon to gain a Gestalt Slot. You name this slot the same way you'd name a character, you assign it a gestalt image, you use the custom colors, etc. For all intents and purposes, this gestalt, whom we shall henceforth call Bob, is his or her own character.

But wait, Bob won't activate. How come? Well, Jimmy, Bob needs at least two characters to act as components! So, you hop on over to the Gestalt Character Designation Area, which will look and act nigh-identically to the armor area (as it is the best system for this kind of thing, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it). You select a character, and pay to have him or her marked as being part of Bob. Bob gets a bonus to his EXP that is equal to the character's EXP. Do this up to five times, incurring the same cost each time, until you've made Bob as powerful as you want him.

Now, head to the Registry, and activate Bob. What's this? Each Gestalt Component's status has changed to 'Gestalt Mode' and can't be made Active! That means that they're all temporarily incapacitated! Jumpin'-Pie-Yimminy, Bob better win, or you're gonna have to kill that sonofa- oh, uh, sorry. Lost my composure for a second, there.

So, what do you do with Bob? Why, use all that EXP and give him stat points, of course! Once a character's been made a part of Bob, he can't be taken off unless you reset Bob, which will tear the Gestalt Component marker off of all your characters who have it. I know that's expensive. That's the point of doing it, to make it as precious to you as armor.

Now, when Bob fights, he doesn't get any more EXP than any other character. This is then divided up among your gestalt characters, with any excess (decimal points and such) rounded down, for simplicity's sake.

I know what you're thinking. You're thinking, "Criminy, man, I won't get anything!" Well, as funny as that would be, it's not true. Bob's stats determine his level, so he's going to be of significantly higher level than any of your other characters. This will let him fight in higher level Missions, and thus earn more EXP than any other character you have. Once divided, though, it'll probably come out to a bit less than you'd get if your characters merely picked on enemies their own size. So, why do it? The obvious reason is that it would be a time-saving method, since you'll only have to squeeze into a single fight instead of, say, five.



Well, that's my two cents on the issue.

[Elcor]

What bothers me now is that in the canon shows we saw gestalts splitting apart.
How could it be done here, I still don't know.
But I believe that my idea - that you enter a single character into the battle, then have a chance for him and his fellows to combine - could be upgraded with a chance for the gestalt to split after being hit significantly, making the first character fight the remainder of the battle himself.

None other systems allows that, IMO.

What do you say?

[Burn]

Frankly, unless the whole idea of how missions are put together are fixed,

What's to fix? There's nothing wrong with how missions are now.

At least they're relatively exploit free ...