The Energon Pub

News Credits: 38 · by **TheMuffin** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:12 pm

I'll pretense this with the fact that the last Leader class figure I purchased was all the way back with ROTF Optimus Prime. The feat of engineering that went into him is unrivaled outside of the earlier MP figures. With that said, I've been awaiting Jetfire for some time, finally found him, plunked down the $45+ tax and am now sitting here disappointed.

I can't help but notice just how utterly cheap this thing feels. 99% of it is hollow, thin walled plastic with just enough support ribs to stop from collapsing on itself. At pivot joints where we used to get two halves clamshelling on it with a screw to hold it together there is now only one half leaving a glaring horrible hollow allowing you to see the inner workings. You can literally just pop the limbs off because there is nothing but a tiny lip of plastic holding it in. At click joints it's the same. gone are the two halves clamshelling the mechanism. The gearing is now just molded as the actual pivot on the elbow and a press pin is shoved through.

Every, single, thing on this figure screams Chinese Knock Off. The plastic is so thin on the guns you can actually squeeze the sides lightly and feel them flex inwards. Not to mention the vac plating on them harkens back to the old Big Lots Beast Wars KO figures.

I honestly can't believe Hasbro has sunk this far in their bid to save a buck. Or Takara. Whoever if it was that decided it was worth sacrificing the build quality of this and future figures down the line. Over the past 20 years I've watched the prices of Transformers go up, and watched the quality and size of them go down. I can't support this anymore. I can't in good faith keep purchasing their stuff if this is what I get.

I'm done.

by **VioMeTriX** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:25 pm

just collect the masterpieces, they don't disappoint...

News Credits: 38 · by **TheMuffin** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:33 pm

I would. Unfortunately they now charge $60+ for a figure the size of a voyager in the MP line. If they hadn't already released the seekers at the size and price they did originally you can be damn sure they'd charge you $70 for ones 2/3 the size they are now.

I'd love to own Wheeljack, Prowl and Bumblebee. But not when they're smaller than an Alternator/Binaltech and 3 times the price that they were.

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:47 pm

Aren't you a bit too harsh? Is there no redeeming feature in the mold?

On the hollowness, I have to agree with the hollow thighs and fist, elbows to shoulder parts. plus the hollow wing parts. But based on the transform design, I doubt it Tomy could have avoided the hollow shins unless again they opted for the geared split type foot like those in original Macross and henkei Jet/Skyfire.

Also, this fig cries for some die-cast to support his joints and the cockpit frame that folds in his back.....really scares me of potential breakage in the future.

Hopefully rectified in an MP release of the animation version.

by **Master Force Skyfire** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:45 am

This does seem kinda harsh, but to each their own.

I did notice that while most TF are (or were) made in China, this was made in Vietnam. Don't know if that has anything to do with it.

I've never thought Hasbro's or Tomy's plastics felt like knock-offs, even at the nadir of the FoC line. FoC Bruticus, for all of it's faults, still has more durable, less brittle plastic than Fansproject's stuff, which hasn't had the impact or drop testing that Hasbro's toys have to go through. Titan Metroplex has lots of hollow spaces and he's one of my favorite figs ever.

So if you don't like your Leader Jetfire, take it back or give it away. I'm sure there's someone else who'll enjoy it.

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:31 am

Master Force Skyfire wrote:This does seem kinda harsh, but to each their own.

I did notice that while most TF are (or were) made in China, this was made in Vietnam. Don't know if that has anything to do with it.

I've never thought Hasbro's or Tomy's plastics felt like knock-offs, even at the nadir of the FoC line. FoC Bruticus, for all of it's faults, still has more durable, less brittle plastic than Fansproject's stuff, which hasn't had the impact or drop testing that Hasbro's toys have to go through. Titan Metroplex has lots of hollow spaces and he's one of my favorite figs ever.

So if you don't like your Leader Jetfire, take it back or give it away. I'm sure there's someone else who'll enjoy it.

Yup its from Vietnam but the origin I'm sure won't have any bearing on how the plastic looks unless they have poor QC managers. Tomy MP-10 btw was also made in Vietnam.

I tried testing his armor (chromed) attachments and they felt solid to me, hard to bend.
If trying to compare it to the original Takatoku mold, of course this pales in comparison to both mass and weight. But if you are expecting a fig to the level of lets say an Arcadia/Yamato Valkyrie......the price would be 2 or 3x this one.

I do share some critique for the mold mainly to the hallow wing panels and the avoidable hollow parts. Lack of a more sturdier frame, maybe die-cast for the shoulder and back connecting joints.

News Credits: 100 · by **-Kanrabat-** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:02 am

I wonder if a 3rd party company can make an upgrade kit to cover the hollow parts without hindering the transformation. If such an upgrade kit is made, is reasonably priced, and ir well rated, I'll be sure to buy. Jetfire is worth it.

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:27 am

Yeah. The ones on his inner thighs and below the wings are quite distracting (the former being the most overt) as Muffin mentioned you can like pull his legs off the socket.

News Credits: 461 · by **mooncake623** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:36 pm

fenrir72 wrote:Yeah. The ones on his inner thighs and below the wings are quite distracting (the former being the most overt) as Muffin mentioned you can like pull his legs off the socket.

I feel like if they put some paint on those panels below the wings (that gets flipped to the front of the toy in bot mode) it'll look a lot better.

News Credits: 12 · by **GuyIncognito** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:44 pm

TheMuffin wrote:
I honestly can't believe Hasbro has sunk this far in their bid to save a buck. Or Takara. Whoever if it was that decided it was worth sacrificing the build quality of this and future figures down the line. Over the past 20 years I've watched the prices of Transformers go up, and watched the quality and size of them go down. I can't support this anymore. I can't in good faith keep purchasing their stuff if this is what I get.

I'm done.

This feels like trolling and it disgusts me.

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:09 pm

Reference: http://pleasesavemerobots.blogspot.com/ ... lypse.html

Some facts you can get all over the net.

1984 Air Guardian price was $ 21.99 compare Leader class Jetfire is $ 45.00 to $ 60.00 in 2014

http://anymoon.com/blog/?p=6244 and

http://tfsource.com/products/view/produ ... gle.com%2F

2001 up Bandai re-issue (estimated at ¥ 2000 up but always sold out back then)at $109.95

Of course the original was purchased by Bandai from a bankrupt company (Takatuko) already designed so very little R/D in their (Bandai) part which Hasbro later purchased from them.

Prices back then (die-cast and plastic was different then in price and composition especially the plastics)

American dollar had MORE value then while the Yen is an up or down streak even now.

So what does it all mean?

No way in cold hell will Hasbro/Tomy ever release THE Macross Jetfire under their company. :BANG_HEAD:

Bandai is sitting on a Golden Goose :BOWDOWN:

All this talk of the latest Jetfire is a Macross wannabee..........OF COURSE its a Macross wannabee! He WAS a Macross jet originally.

Hollow parts are ugly.

Prices have changed.Even the old Snickers packs have higher prices at smaller sizes.

People expect too much today for their $ 45.00 as the latest IS not Masterpiece. Add an extra $30.00 then we probably get more solid parts (I said probably)

Scalpers suck!

Jetfire is AWESOME!So supply nd demand issues to contend and scalpers.

by **Hammer** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:03 am

TheMuffin wrote:
I honestly can't believe Hasbro has sunk this far in their bid to save a buck. Or Takara. Whoever if it was that decided it was worth sacrificing the build quality of this and future figures down the line. Over the past 20 years I've watched the prices of Transformers go up, and watched the quality and size of them go down. I can't support this anymore. I can't in good faith keep purchasing their stuff if this is what I get.

I'm done.

I respect your decision... Less crap to deal with & think of all the money you'll be saving that can be used for more worthwhile ventures.

fenrir72 wrote:Reference: http://pleasesavemerobots.blogspot.com/ ... lypse.html

Some facts you can get all over the net.

1984 Air Guardian price was $ 21.99 compare Leader class Jetfire is $ 45.00 to $ 60.00 in 2014

http://anymoon.com/blog/?p=6244 and

http://tfsource.com/products/view/produ ... gle.com%2F

2001 up Bandai re-issue (estimated at ¥ 2000 up but always sold out back then)at $109.95

Of course the original was purchased by Bandai from a bankrupt company (Takatuko) already designed so very little R/D in their (Bandai) part which Hasbro later purchased from them.

Prices back then (die-cast and plastic was different then in price and composition especially the plastics)

American dollar had MORE value then while the Yen is an up or down streak even now.

So what does it all mean?

No way in cold hell will Hasbro/Tomy ever release THE Macross Jetfire under their company.

Bandai is sitting on a Golden Goose

All this talk of the latest Jetfire is a Macross wannabee..........OF COURSE its a Macross wannabee! He WAS a Macross jet originally.

Hollow parts are ugly.

Prices have changed.Even the old Snickers packs have higher prices at smaller sizes.

People expect too much today for their $ 45.00 as the latest IS not Masterpiece. Add an extra $30.00 then we probably get more solid parts (I said probably)

Scalpers suck!

Jetfire is AWESOME!So supply nd demand issues to contend and scalpers.

Factoring in inflation, that $21.99 you would have paid in 1984 is worth $50.34 today.
If we were to compare the two items, then yes, in my opinion the 1984 version is far better value. But there are also other factors to consider like cost of materials etc. even crude oil in 1984 was approximately $29 ( or $66 in todays money) per barrel vs the $98 we pay now.

All of that aside, it's standard big business procedures; less product for more profit. Did Hasbro lower their prices when the DoTM toys were released to justify the smaller sizes? No. Will they? No. As long as people keep buying their product, they won't lift a finger to do us, the consumers any favours.

And Bandai only licensed the Jetfire mold to Hasbro, they've never owned the mold outright.

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:04 am

Hammer wrote:
TheMuffin wrote:
I honestly can't believe Hasbro has sunk this far in their bid to save a buck. Or Takara. Whoever if it was that decided it was worth sacrificing the build quality of this and future figures down the line. Over the past 20 years I've watched the prices of Transformers go up, and watched the quality and size of them go down. I can't support this anymore. I can't in good faith keep purchasing their stuff if this is what I get.

I'm done.

I respect your decision... Less crap to deal with & think of all the money you'll be saving that can be used for more worthwhile ventures.

fenrir72 wrote:Reference: http://pleasesavemerobots.blogspot.com/ ... lypse.html

Some facts you can get all over the net.

1984 Air Guardian price was $ 21.99 compare Leader class Jetfire is $ 45.00 to $ 60.00 in 2014

http://anymoon.com/blog/?p=6244 and

http://tfsource.com/products/view/produ ... gle.com%2F

2001 up Bandai re-issue (estimated at ¥ 2000 up but always sold out back then)at $109.95

Of course the original was purchased by Bandai from a bankrupt company (Takatuko) already designed so very little R/D in their (Bandai) part which Hasbro later purchased from them.

Prices back then (die-cast and plastic was different then in price and composition especially the plastics)

American dollar had MORE value then while the Yen is an up or down streak even now.

So what does it all mean?

No way in cold hell will Hasbro/Tomy ever release THE Macross Jetfire under their company.

Bandai is sitting on a Golden Goose

All this talk of the latest Jetfire is a Macross wannabee..........OF COURSE its a Macross wannabee! He WAS a Macross jet originally.

Hollow parts are ugly.

Prices have changed.Even the old Snickers packs have higher prices at smaller sizes.

People expect too much today for their $ 45.00 as the latest IS not Masterpiece. Add an extra $30.00 then we probably get more solid parts (I said probably)

Scalpers suck!

Jetfire is AWESOME!So supply nd demand issues to contend and scalpers.

Factoring in inflation, that $21.99 you would have paid in 1984 is worth $50.34 today.
If we were to compare the two items, then yes, in my opinion the 1984 version is far better value. But there are also other factors to consider like cost of materials etc. even crude oil in 1984 was approximately $29 ( or $66 in todays money) per barrel vs the $98 we pay now.

All of that aside, it's standard big business procedures; less product for more profit. Did Hasbro lower their prices when the DoTM toys were released to justify the smaller sizes? No. Will they? No. As long as people keep buying their product, they won't lift a finger to do us, the consumers any favours.

And Bandai only licensed the Jetfire mold to Hasbro, they've never owned the mold outright.

Yup. I mentioned the other factors too (see bold lines). Yes, Bandai just licensed the mold hence I mentioned it will probably be a cold day in hell before we see an "Encore" of the "Jetfire" Macross mold again, but if you want to be OCD, Hasbro purchased THE RIGHTs for a limited time period.

It's like a Golden Goose for Bandai.

Makes me wonder why all the negativity (not just be the Muffin,( his complaint is the hollow parts and the mass/softness of the materials) btw, but in other posters too) about this mold being a Macross wannabee when its roots are Macross 8-}

The price range is not MP so don't expect MP features. Hollow? Arrgh! I hate it too but I like to see him as half glass full.

News Credits: 650 · by **ScottyP** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:47 am

This is a sign of the times in this hobby. The focus is on keeping up price points, not quality. Remember when deluxes first went to $13, but kept up the same size/quality as previous lines? I do, and the bitching was outrageous.

If they kept up the quality of this stuff, and built the MSRPs to reflect similar margins/profit points, well...

TheMuffin wrote:I'd love to own Wheeljack, Prowl and Bumblebee. But not when they're smaller than an Alternator/Binaltech and 3 times the price that they were.

Obviously I'm cherry picking your quote, as your point about the seekers is valid - I'm shocked myself that those are still the price they are. Maybe since the mold is older and they're milking it for repaints, they're not as concerned, or since they're obscure characters they want to ensure sell through? Who knows on that one, but they're currently the exception and not the rule (just look at those Platinum multipack price points, ouch!)

News Credits: 12 · by **GuyIncognito** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:55 am

What's all this about quality? G1 figures had metal parts, but they were bricks with four points of articulation, and they broke pretty easily. Very few of mine survived fully intact. They were subject to rust, yellowing, and GPS.

News Credits: 650 · by **ScottyP** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:59 am

GuyIncognito wrote:What's all this about quality? G1 figures had metal parts, but they were bricks with four points of articulation, and they broke pretty easily. Very few of mine survived fully intact. They were subject to rust, yellowing, and GPS.

I'm thinking of, roughly, 2002-2010. Occasional gimmick intrusion aside, and occasional GPS use aside (rawr), these were big toys with some pretty hefty plastic, with increasing complexity as time went by.

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:54 am

ScottyP wrote:
GuyIncognito wrote:What's all this about quality? G1 figures had metal parts, but they were bricks with four points of articulation, and they broke pretty easily. Very few of mine survived fully intact. They were subject to rust, yellowing, and GPS.

I'm thinking of, roughly, 2002-2010. Occasional gimmick intrusion aside, and occasional GPS use aside (rawr), these were big toys with some pretty hefty plastic, with increasing complexity as time went by.

Galaxyforce comes to mind..........boy were they big and "whole"

News Credits: 293 · by **shajaki** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:51 pm

i dont think that disappointment in figure X means you need to quit collecting all together. it just means be choosey over what to buy. virtually every figure released gets a review of some sort, be it video or pictoral/text. make informed decisions.

the only figures i buy today (without extensive researching) are the ones i would have bought regardless, for the sake of the collection. do i really dislike IDW bumblebee? yeah. will it stop me from getting generations nightbeat? nope. because he at least looks good and i love the character.

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:38 pm

shajaki wrote:i dont think that disappointment in figure X means you need to quit collecting all together. it just means be choosey over what to buy. virtually every figure released gets a review of some sort, be it video or pictoral/text. make informed decisions.

the only figures i buy today (without extensive researching) are the ones i would have bought regardless, for the sake of the collection. do i really dislike IDW bumblebee? yeah. will it stop me from getting generations nightbeat? nope. because he at least looks good and i love the character.

This. Hope springs eternal and we need to be more choosy now.

Arrgh! The Muffin.............I already got over my OCD for the hollow parts, now,I'm OCD again over them :lol:

News Credits: 100 · by **-Kanrabat-** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:16 pm

I repeat: Is there any 3rd party company willing to make an upgrade kit to fill in those hollow without hampering the overall design or transformation process?

News Credits: 4835 · by **william-james88** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:04 am

fenrir72 wrote:
The price range is not MP so don't expect MP features. Hollow? Arrgh! I hate it too but I like to see him as half glass full.

Half full? Like Jetfire's arms?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czvIhn2acVU

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:46 am

by **Darkman20xx** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:33 pm

I love this figure just because of his character and it being the best representation thus far. As far as just based off the figure itself I feel the OP's point. This just does not feel like a $46.99 figure to me. Fact is I probably would have gone up to $69.99 if they could have incorporated more as I think Jetfire would have been one of the Characters that could justify that price. If you take the old classic figure there were transformable booster guns, swing out landing gear in the front as well as the back, more paint details, etc. Not much but not including some of these things in the newer remake was just lazy to me. They did not even complete the paint apps on his guns. Also in looking a how the cockpit connects they could have given us an option to have Skyfire's jet mode as well if they would have included an alternate cockpit. Of we course we all know that Generations Jetfire is the much better representation of the character but I still consider Generations a line aimed at collectors so all bells and whistles need to be thrown on when possible. Those comparing this to Metroplex in terms of being cheap for the sake of being cheap, Metro had little things like the sticker for the cockpit that showed autobots inside and the visor gimmick. Not major things but just things that made you think that Hasbro cared about giving the best possible product and wasn't nixing things just to make budget.

I do think a 3rd party upgrade set is definitely on the way. Hopefully with bigger boosters.

News Credits: 12 · by **GuyIncognito** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:57 pm

It's not a $46 figure; it should have been sold as a $35 "Ultra".

But if this feels like a KO to TheMuffin, I want to know where's he's buying his KOs, because I want to buy some of them!

News Credits: 100 · by **-Kanrabat-** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:59 pm

GuyIncognito wrote:It's not a $46 figure; it should have been sold as a $35 "Ultra".

But if this feels like a KO to TheMuffin, I want to know where's he's buying his KOs, because I want to buy some of them!

You Amercans are so spoiled! I had to pay this 60$ + taxes at my local TrU.

Europeans, Asians, and Australians, feel free to say "B!tch please...".