The Energon Pub

[Burn]

These high toy prices in Austraila is a goverment's problem.

Wrong.

In america,we have what most call a "Illegial imigration" & out-sourcing work Problems.

It's not confined to America.

the Austrailan government has put a penalty tax/price on luxury stuff like toys. Again this isn't a hasbro/Takara problem,this is a goverment problem. if anyone in austraia wants solutions then write the govement & state officials & try to change the law.

Oh boy did you pick a bad time to bring this up. Know why? Because i'm sitting in an Accountant's office where I sat for twelve and a half years and sit for a few hours each weekend. I sat here when the GST was introduced. So let me explain it to you.

Before 2000, before the introduction of the GST, Australia had a lot of "hidden" taxes. These were passed on down the line from manufacturer/importer to the retail outlets finally to the consumer.

When the GST was introduced, those "hidden" taxes were abolished and replaced by the GST. MANY prices dropped dramatically because of it.

If the prices didn't drop, it had NOTHING to do with the Government, it was to do with Retailers who to this day continue to over-markup goods.

You also have to take into account the value of the Australian dollar. Since it was floated it rarely made parity with the US dollar (you know, the currency that drives the value of things pretty much world wide), for some years it was valued at around 60 US cents. That alone is what causes things to be more expensive in Australia as it costs more to import.

Now, the current value of the Australian dollar is well over $1US. For all intents and purposes that means the value of imported products should go down. When ROTF hit, the Australian dollar was gaining on the US dollar. Did we see a price reduction? NO! Know why? Because the retailers didn't want to lower their prices, instead they increased them.

So it has NOTHING to do with the Government, it's all about retailers like K-Mart, Target and Big W who are now importing for less but not passing the savings on to consumers.

[MagnusPrimal]

No thanks.
I own two MP figures. I sold the rest that I had.
I'm not interested in buying that many MP figures, especially in one year.
And tell us again how good the QC on the Rodimus Convoy MP figure is, since MPs are so superior to all other TF figures.

[dinogeist]

These high toy prices in Austraila is a goverment's problem.

Wrong.

In america,we have what most call a "Illegial imigration" & out-sourcing work Problems.

It's not confined to America.

the Austrailan government has put a penalty tax/price on luxury stuff like toys. Again this isn't a hasbro/Takara problem,this is a goverment problem. if anyone in austraia wants solutions then write the govement & state officials & try to change the law.

Oh boy did you pick a bad time to bring this up. Know why? Because i'm sitting in an Accountant's office where I sat for twelve and a half years and sit for a few hours each weekend. I sat here when the GST was introduced. So let me explain it to you.

Before 2000, before the introduction of the GST, Australia had a lot of "hidden" taxes. These were passed on down the line from manufacturer/importer to the retail outlets finally to the consumer.

When the GST was introduced, those "hidden" taxes were abolished and replaced by the GST. MANY prices dropped dramatically because of it.

If the prices didn't drop, it had NOTHING to do with the Government, it was to do with Retailers who to this day continue to over-markup goods.

You also have to take into account the value of the Australian dollar. Since it was floated it rarely made parity with the US dollar (you know, the currency that drives the value of things pretty much world wide), for some years it was valued at around 60 US cents. That alone is what causes things to be more expensive in Australia as it costs more to import.

Now, the current value of the Australian dollar is well over $1US. For all intents and purposes that means the value of imported products should go down. When ROTF hit, the Australian dollar was gaining on the US dollar. Did we see a price reduction? NO! Know why? Because the retailers didn't want to lower their prices, instead they increased them.

So it has NOTHING to do with the Government, it's all about retailers like K-Mart, Target and Big W who are now importing for less but not passing the savings on to consumers.

Sorry,this is still a goverment & retails stores problem in Austrailia. as their needs to be better laws put in place that are clearly not their right now.

All Hasbro/Takara does is sell the merchandise. Hasbro/takara don't have any control over what austrailan stores charge for their stuff.

Also a major problem is what the Goverment/regions in Austraila charges for taxes & retail space. the higher the taxes companies in Austraila have to pay for retail space the more the customers pay for items in their retail stores. this is called balancing out the scales.

In america the govement/states give tax breaks/lower taxes to large companies in America. this helps keep merchandise down in price for the customers.

it's a well documented fact that Japanese & austrailan wokers/labors on average get paid more in minium wage per hour. compared to what the american workers/labors get paid on minium wage rates per hour.

Ofcause stuff is gonna cost more to buy in Japan & Austraila because the goverment & retail stores need to make up the difference by paying the workers/labors more per hour.

Retail stores in America can afford to have lower prices for stuff they sell to customers. because they outsource & pay the workers/labors at the current $6.25 per hour minium wage work level.

some retail stores in america refuse to honor & accept the new minimum wage law that got passed a few years ago. thus some retails stores & other places under pay the workers/labors by $.75 cents per hours. in other words, some companies in america still pay their workers by the old/out dated $5.50 minium work wage per hour.
this is allowed under the usa because of all the catch 22 laws/phrases in the law.

[Burn]

Give it up. You just keep digging yourself a bigger hole.

I'm sorry, but who the hell are you to tell Australians that our Government needs to change the laws? Really, who are you to say that?

And I like how it went from being a Government problem, to Government AND Retailers.

Here's something else you clearly don't know ... the Australian Government actually does keep an eye on retailers. In the last few years they've amended the laws a number of times to give more power to the ACCC (Australian Competition and Consumer Commission) to come down on companies who are over-charging or undertaking price collusion.

Again, you preach on about minimum labour laws. Fair enough, but you completely disregard the exchange rate factor. As I said, for years (let's say nearly 20!) the Australian dollar was crap against the US dollar. The minimum hourly rate has very little impact on products that are imported. This is where the biggest cost is and as I clearly stated, when the Australian dollar was crap against the US dollar it cost a lot to import goods like Transformers. That cost was then passed on to consumers.

Now that the dollar has risen, retailers by rights should be passing on the savings but they are yet to do that, and I have no doubt in the coming months (with the AUD expected to surge higher against the USD) that consumer groups will begin jumping up and down and the Government will be forced to take action.

Now, feel free to debate back, but you've alread proven you don't have the correct facts so save yourself the trouble.

[dinogeist]

Give it up. You just keep digging yourself a bigger hole.

I'm sorry, but who the hell are you to tell Australians that our Government needs to change the laws? Really, who are you to say that?

And I like how it went from being a Government problem, to Government AND Retailers.

Here's something else you clearly don't know ... the Australian Government actually does keep an eye on retailers. In the last few years they've amended the laws a number of times to give more power to the ACCC (Australian Competition and Consumer Commission) to come down on companies who are over-charging or undertaking price collusion.

Again, you preach on about minimum labour laws. Fair enough, but you completely disregard the exchange rate factor. As I said, for years (let's say nearly 20!) the Australian dollar was crap against the US dollar. The minimum hourly rate has very little impact on products that are imported. This is where the biggest cost is and as I clearly stated, when the Australian dollar was crap against the US dollar it cost a lot to import goods like Transformers. That cost was then passed on to consumers.

Now that the dollar has risen, retailers by rights should be passing on the savings but they are yet to do that, and I have no doubt in the coming months (with the AUD expected to surge higher against the USD) that consumer groups will begin jumping up and down and the Government will be forced to take action.

Now, feel free to debate back, but you've alread proven you don't have the correct facts so save yourself the trouble.

Okay,here's my return debate back as you requested. I'll do the reply in 3 steps.

(1) You still haven't acknowledged that the average work/labor minium wage in Japan & Austraila is higher per hour compared to america.

(1) Stuff cost more to buy in austraila compared to america due to on average the workers/labors getting paid more in minium wage per hour.

(2) Retail stores in Austrailia charging more for items. is a govement & retail stores problem. because their needs to be more/better laws put in place.

(2a) this isn't a hasbro nor takara problem.

(3) the american government gives tax breaks/lower taxes to large companies in america. this helps keep prices down for the consumer on stuff they buy.

(3a)The austrailan & japanese government charge high taxes on real estate,regular taxes & import fee taxes.extra taxes,penalty taxes & tons of luxury taxes to these large companies. so these large companies pass the burden on to the buyers by making them pay more for the stuff they buy.

[robofreak]

Government talk ends now or I lock this thread. Is that understood?

Anyways, I can no longer take you seriously Deathy. MP figures are not the pinnacle of TF tech. If they were, any could would be able to give them a beating and they could stand the test of time. So far, only the MP Prime mold can do that.

Starscream is frikkin fragile, Megatron falls over all the time, and Rodimus has his own errors.

Take into taccount that quite a few of the newer deluxe class and other Classics figures are amazin throwback to the figures we grew up with, I will insist that the MP line is by many counts inferior due to the lack of playability that they have.

Also, yes, I do own Botcon and other rare figures. I don't buy every single MP figure just cause it's an MP. I buy what I want and what I want is stuff that I'll enjoy.

You just need to face the fact that this thread is not going to help you right now partly due to throwing everyones opinions out the window and not taking the time to be grateful for the figures that Takara and Hasbro do release.

Oh, and if they did go to nothing but selling MPs, I would quit the hobby. That would mean kids stopped buying them and the franchise is meeting it's demise. I would just sit back, fill in gaps in my collection, and wait for the next reboot in popularity.

[Autobot032]

Okay,here's my return debate back as you requested. I'll do the reply in 3 steps.

(1) You still haven't acknowledged that the average work/labor minium wage in Japan & Austraila is higher per hour compared to america.

(1) Stuff cost more to buy in austraila compared to america due to on average the workers/labors getting paid more in minium wage per hour.

(2) Retail stores charging more for items. is a govement problem. because their needs to be more/better laws put in place.

(2a) this isn't a hasbro nor takara problem.

(3) the american government gives tax breaks/lower taxes to large companies in america. this helps keep prices down for the consumer on stuff they buy.

1.) The cost of living is much higher too. It evens out and you're still wrong.

1a.) That is possibly one reason, but more or less, it's greed and the economy.

2.) It is not a government problem. Stores are allowed to charge as they wish. Price gouging can be handled by the government, but it's a matter of opinion.

2a.) It is their problem, just like it is our's. Everyone has to pay a higher price for things these days. Petroleum, which is in plastic, is at an all time high right now.

3.) Where are the savings? Where are the lower prices? Please tell me.

EDIT:

Government talk ends now or I lock this thread. Is that understood?

I didn't see this post until after mine was finished, my apologies.

[Twitchythe3rd]

MPs are more or less just for display. Given that the franchise is pretty much powered by children and parents, it would die pretty quick. I'm happy with having Deluxe and Voyager versions of all my favorite characters.

[Burn]

(1) You still haven't acknowledged that the average work/labor minium wage in Japan & Austraila is higher per hour compared to america.

Actually I did. It's you that fails to acknowledge that you're not taking into account the exchange rate for the last 20 years which balances things out for Australia.

(1) Stuff cost more to buy in austraila compared to america due to on average the workers/labors getting paid more in minium wage per hour.

Wrong. Again you fail to acknowledge what i'm saying. So hopefully you'll get it this time. Exchange rate. For years the AUD was crap, as such it cost more to import. This is the major factor in why costs are put up.

(2) Retail stores in Austrailia charging more for items. is a govement & retail stores problem. because their needs to be more/better laws put in place.

I explained this as well. Go back and read what I posted instead of ignoring it and claiming I didn't acknowledge things.

(2a) this isn't a hasbro nor takara problem.

I've never said it was.

(3) the american government gives tax breaks/lower taxes to large companies in america. this helps keep prices down for the consumer on stuff they buy.

And again, you have ignored the value of the USD. For years it was the dominant currency.

You also seem to be completely ignoring the fact that Transformers are imported. You harp on about the minimum wage, but guess what, that doesn't come into the manufacturing costs. As I previously stated, the major cost is importing. Higher USD/lower AUD resulted in things being cheaper in America and more costly in Australia. Simple really.

(3a)The austrailan & japanese government charge high taxes on real estate,regular taxes & import fee taxes.extra taxes,penalty taxes & tons of luxury taxes to these large companies. so these large companies pass the burden on to the buyers by making them pay more for the stuff they buy.

You just don't read my posts do you? As I previously explained, Australia did away with a number of "hidden" taxes back in 2000 and replacd it with one tax. The GST. 10% on top of goods and services.

Yes, there are other taxes, but that's not the problem, the problem has always been the lower value of the AUD compared to the USD which pushed up the price of imports.


You want to believe otherwise, go right ahead.

[Prime Riblet]

There is little point wasting anymore time on this. If someone has the opinion that it would be a good thing for HasTak to release only MP figures 10 times per year, then that's fine. There is no point in beating this dead horse any further. No amount of debating will help in this matter. If this idea were one that would make HasTak more money, then it would have been done already.

[dinogeist]

Both,Hasbro & Takara have OFFICIALLY acknowledged these MP TF toys as HIGH GRADE Transformers toys compared to the average/lower grade Transformers toys they usually create.

WHY BUY ONE MP TF TOY WHEN "ONE" CAN BUY 6+REGULAR PRICED TF TOYS
INSTEAD. Because some prefer quality over quanity.

Why buy the Dorrittos when you could buy 2 storer brand cheaper priced nacho chips instead?

Why buy COKE or Pepsi when you could go for quanity & buy the cheaper store brand,get more cans/bottles for a cheaper price?

Why buy a real 14 Karat Gold chain. when you could buy 3 fake gold
plated gold chains instead?

why buy levis jeans/shirts,when you could go to walmart & buy the
store brand jeans shirts/shirts in higher quanity for a cheaper price?

why buy a leather jacket,when you could go to walmart & buy 20
sweatshirt jackets for $8 bucks each?

why buy a 12 piece ceramic dishes boxed set for $100+ when you could
buy 50/100 hefty foam plates instead for under $8

why buy metal silverware when one could buy the lower grade
disposeable plastic forks/spoons/knives?

Why buy a suit for over $200,when one can buy $20 jogging/sweat outfits instead?

[Kibble]

There's exactly 0% chance of this being a possibility so, if you ask me, it's not really worth all the debate and arguing...

[robofreak]

Both,Hasbro & Takara have OFFICIALLY acknowledged these MP TF toys as HIGH GRADE Transformers toys compared to the average/lower grade Transformers toys they usually create.

You just stated the flaw in your argument.

Hasbro and Takara acknowledge them as being high grade. In terms of detail and design, yes they are. Durability-wise? No, unless you count MP Prime.

Hasbro and Takara are in the market to sell toys. Do you actually think they are going to come out and say a toy sucks? No. They are going to advertise the crap out of it to get sales quotas met.

You determine the quality of a figure by personal preference. Not by what a company says. The company is always going to have a natural bias towards their products in order to generate revenue.

If you only want MP figures, then be my guest and buy them up. I like variety and will continue to buy other figures which in most cases I will consider to be awesome.

[alldarker]

Masterpiece Transformers are superior to everything else,that's not opinion that's well documented facts by both takara & Hasbro.

I own exactly one Masterpiece: Takara Thundercracker, and even though I've never taken him out of the box, I know his chest thrusters will have been switched around. How's that for QC? As for the rest of the MP's, the problems with Starscream /'Greenscream' (weak plastic), Megatron (Cosmic rust, frail and poorly balanced) and Rodimus (a miriad of problems) are well known and documented. Each of these probably cost Takara about at least 6 months of research and development: to think that they would be able to pump out a 'high quality' MP per month is just crazy. The designs are good, I'll give you that, but even Takara is having a hard time properly translating those designs into perfect plastic models without inherent construction problems.

As far as the íncome argument is concerned: I'm lucky enough to have a good job and a good disposable income. Still, there's NO WAY that it would go to a monthly Masterpiece. Here in Europe I have to bend over backwards to get ANY Transformers at a reasonable price: I have to import virtually everything that appeals to me (Universe, RtS, Generations) and importing a simple deluxe (including shipping) costs me about as much as the price you are stating a Masterpiece should cost.

The only reason I ever bought MP Thundercracker is that back in 1984 he was my very first TF, and MP TC can perhaps be described as his ultimate incarnation. For the rest, Masterpieces certainly AREN'T the be all and end all of Transformers: in my opinion, they are nice nods to adult collectors, but they do cater to just a relatively small niche market.

[Burn]

Look at it this way.

You can pay $30,000 for a decent car which will give you great mileage, is well engineered, and give you a good top speed.

Or you could pay 10 times that for a decent car which gives you great mileage, is well engineered, gives you a good top speed and has a nice little badge on it that really says "I have a lot of money".

[RhA]

As a nail in the coffin: how is asking for 10 figures a year not asking for quantity?

[gavinfuzzy]

No... Masterpieces are few, and rare. That's why their "masterpieces" Once they start making sh*t tons of em it'll become like normal Tfs.

[Starscream GaGa]

it's extremly clear the MP TF toy engineering is so advanced & state of the art,it's ahead of it time.

Ahead of its time? What? Not it isn't, there is nothing in MP Transformers that is revolutionary.

the amount of super poseable joints & articulations is more than other REGULAR/NON-MP transformers have.

Animated Megatron Leader is easily more pose able than MP Megatron as well as easier to stand up.

[robofreak]

I just thought of a perfect group of toys in which the label Masterpiece is a joke. Anyone remember the Toynama Macross Masterpiece figures? I remember when they advertised the crap out of those saying they were the best figures ever made and would be the pinnacle of their kind. Well they ended up being an expensive disaster. Transforming one of the valkryes meant risking breaking it or the figure never felt the same.

Also Toynami Masterpiece Voltron was an even worse failure. $150 gave you lots of die cast and chrome, but also splintering plastic and breaking if you stared at it too long while being on display.

Toynami then went and announced: "Yeah, we really screwed up with the MP Voltron so we're making one without die cast for 1/3 of the original cost" I bought that one and never regretted it.

To me, that's proof that the MP label is not always good.

[amtm]

I think the real takeaway from all of this is that Masterpiece toys (as they are now) often feature excellent aesthetics and often very interesting engineering, but very poor execution in materials and durability. If every Masterpiece were as solid as Prime, and as reasonably priced as Skywarp ($60 originally, $30 on clearance), I'd buy them all. But since many are not designed to withstand play or even light handling, there's little enjoyment to get out of them. It's one of those cases where a company believes by sticking a fancy name and a premium price tag on something, it can make a lot of money, but it fails to make the necessary investment (in materials, redesign, quality control, whatever) to make the product live up to expectations.

[Midnight_Fox]

Oh, and if they did go to nothing but selling MPs, I would quit the hobby.

Same. Any money that I spent on TFs would be funneled back into wargames. Why? Because the choice would become 1 expensive figure a month that only really looks good on display and doesn't have the playability or durability of the smaller, less expensive figures vs 1/4 or more of an army that I'd play against my friends weekly.

I know where the value in those choices lie(hint: it isn't transformable).

Also, Deathy, quit attempting an economics argument about this. It's painfully clear that you have no idea what you're talking about.

[dinogeist]

Oh, and if they did go to nothing but selling MPs, I would quit the hobby.

Same. Any money that I spent on TFs would be funneled back into wargames. Why? Because the choice would become 1 expensive figure a month that only really looks good on display and doesn't have the playability or durability of the smaller, less expensive figures vs 1/4 or more of an army that I'd play against my friends weekly.

I know where the value in those choices lie(hint: it isn't transformable).

Also, Deathy, quit attempting an economics argument about this. It's painfully clear that you have no idea what you're talking about.

I am in the exact OPPOSSITE side of the ring on this.

I don't buy transformers for quanity nor do I grab as many as I can just to fill up a entire room full of transformers.

[dinogeist]

I think the real takeaway from all of this is that Masterpiece toys (as they are now) often feature excellent aesthetics and often very interesting engineering, but very poor execution in materials and durability. If every Masterpiece were as solid as Prime, and as reasonably priced as Skywarp ($60 originally, $30 on clearance), I'd buy them all. But since many are not designed to withstand play or even light handling, there's little enjoyment to get out of them. It's one of those cases where a company believes by sticking a fancy name and a premium price tag on something, it can make a lot of money, but it fails to make the necessary investment (in materials, redesign, quality control, whatever) to make the product live up to expectations.

This isn't fact it's a opinion.

You appear to not even own all 5 new mold MP TF toys released thus far.

Honestly,forming a opinion on things not ownned & not played with makes ZERO sense.

[robofreak]

I think the real takeaway from all of this is that Masterpiece toys (as they are now) often feature excellent aesthetics and often very interesting engineering, but very poor execution in materials and durability. If every Masterpiece were as solid as Prime, and as reasonably priced as Skywarp ($60 originally, $30 on clearance), I'd buy them all. But since many are not designed to withstand play or even light handling, there's little enjoyment to get out of them. It's one of those cases where a company believes by sticking a fancy name and a premium price tag on something, it can make a lot of money, but it fails to make the necessary investment (in materials, redesign, quality control, whatever) to make the product live up to expectations.

This isn't fact it's a opinion.

You appear to not even own all 5 new mold MP TF toys released thus far.

Honestly,forming a opinion on things not ownned & not played with makes ZERO sense.

So you're saying just because he doesn't own all of the MP molds, he can't talk about this? I only own 3 MPs. 2 of which are repaints. Does that make me unable to comment even after personally handling most of them anyway? Also, based on that post, you don't even know if he owns them all.

I'm not sure anymore if you like to troll or not with this. MPs are nice, but so far everything in this thread has done a pretty good job of showing that if you want Quality and durability then MP is not the way to go. If you want some aesthetically awesome, then MP all the way.

You're treating this all like everything you say is fact, when just as you said about amtm's post, it's a opinion. You are of the opinion that MP's are the end all of figures. The general consensus of this thread is against that way of thinking. Personally I don't care at this point. To each their own.

I'm going to buy whatever I want because a rant or 2 on the net is going to deter me from buying stuff.

What keeps me from buying stuff are massive QC issues which have been prevalent is current MP figures. That's why I'm waiting for the second version of rodimus.

[Burn]

What makes even less sense is assuming what people don't own and dismissing their opinion on that assumption.