The Energon Pub

[Burn]

So you're suggesting that every time she entered the Nethersphere her body died?

[Shadowman]

So you're suggesting that every time she entered the Nethersphere her body died?

Why not? She is, by her own admission "bananas." Teleportation by suicide seems like a good idea to a crazy enough individual. Aside from which, The Master has died how many times by now? He used up his first 13 bodies, and he's had at least five bodies since then. Killing him/herself just to get around might not seem like that big an issue anymore.

[Burn]

Or it could be a simple case she uploads herself into the Nethersphere while her body is kept safe and sound in the pocket dimension inside Saint Pauls.

But then Cybermen can apparently instantly "upgrade" from one simple little pollen coming into contact with dead organics so who the **** knows. It's Moffatt after all.

[Shadowman]

Or it could be a simple case she uploads herself into the Nethersphere while her body is kept safe and sound in the pocket dimension inside Saint Pauls.

Or the Nethesphere can construct new bodies, like that of the kid it was shown constructing a new body of.

But then Cybermen can apparently instantly "upgrade" from one simple little pollen coming into contact with dead organics so who the **** knows. It's Moffatt after all.

Nanotechnology, stolen from the Borg during the crossover comic, then upgraded by the Master. Same reason the Cybermen started acting more like the Borg in Nightmare in Silver.

[Burn]

Or the Nethesphere can construct new bodies, like that of the kid it was shown constructing a new body of.

At what point did that happen?

[Shadowman]

Or the Nethesphere can construct new bodies, like that of the kid it was shown constructing a new body of.

At what point did that happen?

At the end, where Danny was about to come back using the Master's bracelet, and instead he brought back the kid that he killed. And considering the kid wasn't decomposed, I'm guessing that was a new body.

[ZeroWolf]

Or the Nethesphere can construct new bodies, like that of the kid it was shown constructing a new body of.

At what point did that happen?

At the end, where Danny was about to come back using the Master's bracelet, and instead he brought back the kid that he killed. And considering the kid wasn't decomposed, I'm guessing that was a new body.

True, it was supposed to be a good number of years since the kid died. Though thinking about it, the kids parents may not react well to his return, if they themselves are alive still, hope Clara is okay with the thought of adopting him.

[Shadowman]

Or the Nethesphere can construct new bodies, like that of the kid it was shown constructing a new body of.

At what point did that happen?

At the end, where Danny was about to come back using the Master's bracelet, and instead he brought back the kid that he killed. And considering the kid wasn't decomposed, I'm guessing that was a new body.

True, it was supposed to be a good number of years since the kid died. Though thinking about it, the kids parents may not react well to his return, if they themselves are alive still, hope Clara is okay with the thought of adopting him.

Why wouldn't they? Their child has returned from the grave, no worse for wear. Unless the kid was a serial killer, any parent would be well beyond happy at this turn of events.

[ZeroWolf]

I would be terrified that my son would return to life, and highly suspicious. After all they may think it's a trick or a test of faith.

[Shadowman]

I would be terrified that my son would return to life, and highly suspicious. After all they may think it's a trick or a test of faith.

Or that their son was brought back to them. I'm going to go ahead and assume you don't have kids, huh? Because good parents don't think "Our dead child was brought back to us..! Get rid of him!"

[ZeroWolf]

I have two actually my point actually comes from a show I watched a good while ago, in fact I can't remember what the show was! But in it the main character has helped a family get their child back or healed their child in a way they didn't like, so end of the episode rolls round and something tips the main character off and he races back to the family to find out they have killed the child saying it's okay as the child was already dead. Main character despairs.

Now I realize that is an extreme example, but some days I tend to think like that.

[Shadowman]

I have two actually my point actually comes from a show I watched a good while ago, in fact I can't remember what the show was! But in it the main character has helped a family get their child back or healed their child in a way they didn't like, so end of the episode rolls round and something tips the main character off and he races back to the family to find out they have killed the child saying it's okay as the child was already dead. Main character despairs.

Now I realize that is an extreme example, but some days I tend to think like that.

The fact that they murder their own child in the end didn't tip you off to the idea that this isn't how normal people would react?

EDIT: It's the Stephen King novel "Pet Semetary." "Extreme example" doesn't begin to cover it, it was just a terrible one.

[ZeroWolf]

No it wasn't that, I think it was a medical program but memory is hazy.

I know it's a personal question but are you a parent? You seem to be arguing this case a lot.

I was wrong to assume in a case where the writer will decide the parents reaction based on story needs. However you can't assume what a normal reaction would be to something so extraordinary.

[Shadowman]

I was wrong to assume in a case where the writer will decide the parents reaction based on story needs.

You based your idea of the normal reaction off of a show where the parents kill their child in the end. A show you don't even know the name of, nor the exact details of the story itself. "Wrong" is being mild about it.

However you can't assume what a normal reaction would be to something so extraordinary.

Yeah I can, it's really easy when you know how actual parents feel about and act towards their child. (Spoiler alert: Unconditional love) And I can safely say "No, I don't want this back" is not that reaction.

[Burn]

When did you become a parent?

[Shadowman]

When did you become a parent?

I didn't, but that doesn't mean I don't understand the simple psychology of it based on, oh I don't know, the numerous people I know who actually are parents. As opposed to ZeroWolf, who based it off of a medical show he doesn't remember anything about where two people kill their child in the end.

This might come as a shock to you, but you don't actually need to be a parent to understand the concept of unconditional love.

Knowing you, you're just going to try to argue it anyway, basic logic be damned.

[Dead Metal]

If you're not a parent but say you don't have to be to understand the way parents would feel if the child they buried years a go suddenly sgowes up alive, well, and not a day older. How can you then use the "I take it you're not a parent"?

Don't you think they'd just accept the kid back no questions asked when the kid they saw shot to death, seen the corpse riddled with bullet holes, buried and just accept it's just back years later?

[ZeroWolf]

I'm also basing it on myself and how I would feel. Unconditional love will only go so far, people will still question the reality of the event. I mean it could be easier for them to believe they're going insane then someone who has been dead for a number of years. If he looked the way he should look after that long in the ground (I.e. A zombie) would your statement hold up?

As I said before, this is an extraordinary situation, something that thus far, is impossible. So you can't just say what everyone would do or what the normal reaction is. Without evidence, both our theories are valid and untested.

[ScoutBumblebee]

I can't resist dropping my $.02 on this conversation... AS AN ACTUAL PARENT. I have kids, and I love them unconditionally. I will always love them, no matter what they do, or say, etc. LOVE them. Like nothing I could have ever thought myself capable of feeling.

Now, if one of my kids did something absolutely deplorable, I can't say I would welcome them back into my life. I would still LOVE them, but I wouldn't necessarily see fit to be around them. And I would hope they would be punished accordingly. I'm talking TRULY deplorable here, like proven rape/murder/crimes against children, etc.

If I had seen my child killed, buried, etc (ACK) I don't know that I could welcome them back without question. I would be interested in what was going on, likely thankful, but I would certainly not unconditionally accept them back immediately. I would need to know a little more -- the logical side of my brain does reign.

As to what "most" parents would feel, that's not ever an appropriate thing to guess at. In my life, I know of many parents. I know of good ones, bad ones, and everywhere in between. I can't say where I fall there, as my children are very young. I FEEL like I'm doing a good job, and my kids are kind and mannerly, but only time will tell there. However, I also know of a catastrophic parent, who has openly stated multiple times that her kids "ruined her life, by being born." She only has interest in being around them as they bring her more welfare, more food stamps, and child support. This is not a parent who would likely be concerned if there child died, or welcome their child back.

I have no issue with stating something like, "most typical parents would not react in such way, i.e. 'my dead child has returned, get it away from me,' but most would likely be happy to experience a second chance," but stating that "Unless the kid was a serial killer, any parent would be well beyond happy at this turn of events" is a bit of a stretch. I think most parents would be confused, terrified, wonder if they were being tricked, and highly skeptical. Maybe I'm missing an important point here, but I think it's a bit outrageous that the love of a child would reign SO supreme in a parent's head that they wouldn't be PRETTY FREAKIN' FREAKED out if their long gone child showed back up again.

[ZeroWolf]

Thanks for the view scout bumblebee, didn't realise how many people on here had kids seems like a lot of people here are on the same page. Other people I've asked have answered similar. Again I was wrong to rely on an awfully remembered example, when I should of said what I felt (as I have above) and just asked others for their opinion.

[Dead Metal]

Oh yeah, while we're on the topic of "unconditional" love and how parents feel that way for their children. If that's really the case, pray explain to me why there are so many cases of parents throwing their children out of their homes or out of the family, sometimes even try to kill them after they find out that they're homosexual?

[Gekas]

So you're suggesting that every time she entered the Nethersphere her body died?

Why not? She is, by her own admission "bananas." Teleportation by suicide seems like a good idea to a crazy enough individual. Aside from which, The Master has died how many times by now? He used up his first 13 bodies, and he's had at least five bodies since then. Killing him/herself just to get around might not seem like that big an issue anymore.

Where was it stated that The Master has used up all 13 of his bodies? As of now there have been 7 actors and 1 actress to take on the roll. I never watched Doctor Who before it was restarted so not sure if this is info from the old series or from the comics.

[Burn]

It's from the old series.

The Master was originally portrayed by Roger Delgado, he was defeated but was on his last regeneration, he clung to life as a severely burnt character who used the body of Nyssa's father and subsequently took on his form (played by Anthony Ainley) to restore himself. The last we saw of Ainley's Master he was becoming a cat.

He was then put on trial and exterminated, The Doctor then transported his remains to Galifrey only got side tracked due to the new millennium, his remains then took on a snake like shape and took over the body of a Paramedic (played by Eric Roberts). He was then absorbed into The Tardis (see Dr Who movie)

Flash forward to the new series we meet Professor Yana who is The Master that has given up his Time Lord heritage and memories to hide from the Daleks. He then remembers who he is and regenerates into John Simms. It's then revealed that for the whole he played in the Time War the Time Lords granted him a new regeneration cycle.

Simms then (we assume) regenerated into Michelle Gomez's Missy. So this is technically his 2nd regeneration of his 2nd cycle.

[ScoutBumblebee]

Oh yeah, while we're on the topic of "unconditional" love and how parents feel that way for their children. If that's really the case, pray explain to me why there are so many cases of parents throwing their children out of their homes or out of the family, sometimes even try to kill them after they find out that they're homosexual?

Yeah... I have a family member who runs a drop in shelter for homeless kids/teens/young adults. You wouldn't find me ever saying "all parents love their kids unconditionally." Because some of those kids stories prove that nor only do not all parents live their kids unconditionally some parents darn near HATE their kids. The stories some of those kids tell about their backgrounds would curdle your blood.

PS ~ I'm pretty sure your comment wasn't aimed at me. I'm just adding to it.

[Dead Metal]

So you're suggesting that every time she entered the Nethersphere her body died?

Why not? She is, by her own admission "bananas." Teleportation by suicide seems like a good idea to a crazy enough individual. Aside from which, The Master has died how many times by now? He used up his first 13 bodies, and he's had at least five bodies since then. Killing him/herself just to get around might not seem like that big an issue anymore.

Where was it stated that The Master has used up all 13 of his bodies? As of now there have been 7 actors and 1 actress to take on the roll. I never watched Doctor Who before it was restarted so not sure if this is info from the old series or from the comics.

From the old series. He used up all his regenerations, got himself killed and then somehow came back by taking over someone else's body, then got executed and turned himself into a snake thing that used human host bodies to sustain itself, then got resurrected by the Time Lords to serve as their ultimate weapon or some such BS.

Basically, every ridicules Superhero comic death and resurrection has been done in Doctor Who and then some. I don't understand why they even bother to making it look like someone or something dies "for realsies" anymore, every time they kill off the Daleks for good, or the Cybermen or the toaster rapists, I just roll my eyes and eagerly await the next time they show up again.