IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Burn » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:17 am

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primalxconvoy wrote:
Burn wrote:
primalxconvoy wrote:
Sunstar wrote:the comic shop laughed when I said that visionaries makes me angry when I asked if they ever had a comic do that to them. They said, "it happens". They understand my hesitation in picking these up.

Why does it make you angry?

Have you read these comics?

I've read some of the stuff that's posted here (and even made a parody of it), but I'm not sure why v others might be angered by it.

It's an incredibly terrible series that treats Transformers like guest stars, amongst other things.

While I don't personally get angry about them (I read them, vent, move on), I can understand why others do. Feel free to track down electronic versions for yourself and discover the horror.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby primalxconvoy » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:31 am

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Oh, I already got that that impression from the free previews posted online.

With any luck, it'll go the way of MASK.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Daniel Adkins » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:02 am

Honestly, this series biggest problem is that the Transformers are in it. All the book's biggest problems (the discontinuity with First Strike, Kup’s death, etc.) wouldn’t be here if the series was just a straight up Visionaries book.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby primalxconvoy » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:12 am

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Daniel Adkins wrote:Honestly, this series biggest problem is that the Transformers are in it. All the book's biggest problems (the discontinuity with First Strike, Kup’s death, etc.) wouldn’t be here if the series was just a straight up Visionaries book.


I agree. I honestly wish all of the new ideas; the racial changes, new armour, new direction was done in a new universe. That way, they could go nuts and it wouldn't impede on the existing TF universe and it might even be possible to have a more "G1" style Visionaries comic later on. The same thing should have happened with MASK, too.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Daniel Adkins » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:15 am

primalxconvoy wrote:
Daniel Adkins wrote:Honestly, this series biggest problem is that the Transformers are in it. All the book's biggest problems (the discontinuity with First Strike, Kup’s death, etc.) wouldn’t be here if the series was just a straight up Visionaries book.


I agree. I honestly wish all of the new ideas; the racial changes, new armour, new direction was done in a new universe. That way, they could go nuts and it wouldn't impede on the existing TF universe and it might even be possible to have a more "G1" style Visionaries comic later on. The same thing should have happened with MASK, too.

No, Visionaries is fine as is. It just shouldn’t have been set on Cybertron. Other than that one thing, this is a fine addition to the Hasbro Universe.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Sunstar » Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:14 am

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I pride myself in being a (usually) very open minded person...

It's just parts of this series... it really grinds my gears. I do follow electronic versions of this comic because I have yet to decide if I actually want to pay my hard earned cash for it.

I think Burn actually nailed a few parts of what bothers me. The Transformers characters are basically incidental. Book #2 had 4 pages with Transformers in it out of about 22 pages. Its hardly a Transformers book. Its like watching some popular sitcom, lets say friends, and a news paper happens to have a news story of the happenings of the transformers in it - they're part of the world. Kinda like how transformers are second fiddle in the transformers movies, but I actually enjoyed the movies and it doens't piss me off(although #4 makes me sleep) I digress.

It could be good characterisation - because I want to punch virulina - or however that bint's name is spelled, I despise her lines, I despise her colours, to be honest, I really don't care for any of these characters and I would not shed a tear if they dropped a nuke on them and crushed every last one(I feel so Decepticon).

Kup's death was bad enough - the fact that these characters are essentially untouchable to the transformers, having some sort of power that can destroy them so utterly is over-powered.

Ultimately I am not entirely sure if the root of my anger is because it's ultimately good writing that makes me feel something (like how TAAO annual made me cry)or because I feel they are not doing any justice to the story, or anything that will further the story of the Transformers on Cybertron. I get the feeling I won't get my answer until after the last book.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Burn » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:52 pm

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Another way to look at it, it's Transformers vs Visionaries.

Unfortunately it's more Visionaries vs Visionaries with Transformers taking a back seat even though it's THEIR planet.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:31 pm

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It still seems to be a bad decision to use transformers as their launching pad. Is transformers really the best selling comic of the hasbro titles? Aside from trying to argue it's magic vs technology (which could be pulled off better if it was visionaries vs gi Joe in my opinion as both are humans, just from different worlds)
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Mini-Review of IDW Transformers vs Visionaries #3

Postby Va'al » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:20 am

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(Spoiler free-ish)



Synopsis
The clock is ticking! Leoric finds himself exiled from New Prysmos by Virulina, who Merklynn has named the new leader of all the Visionaries. Can Leoric and his loyalists save Cybertron from being totally changed into a new homeworld for his people? Should they?

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For broad definitions of 'saving'



I'm going to do something different with this issue's review, as we're behind schedule, the series has a very thin connection to Transformers, but I still believe it warrants coverage (the database entry is here, in case) and review was due a couple of weeks ago as it stands, anyway! Namely, I'll let some of the commenting readers speak their thoughts on what is and isn't working, and coming in to cover aspects that haven't been addressed.

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Like the blue tusked tigerlion in the room


And we start with the major points:

Daniel Adkins wrote:Honestly, this series biggest problem is that the Transformers are in it. All the book's biggest problems (the discontinuity with First Strike, Kup’s death, etc.) wouldn’t be here if the series was just a straight up Visionaries book.


Burn wrote:Another way to look at it, it's Transformers vs Visionaries.

Unfortunately it's more Visionaries vs Visionaries with Transformers taking a back seat even though it's THEIR planet.


This is a comment that has often circulated in our previous reviews, and one that still applies, constantly, and viciously, to this third issue. The only saving moment, in this regard, is the appearance of a Transformers specific character which cannot exactly be called mainstream (to non TF fans, anyway) and some development of plot from the side of the Cybertronians.

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cc


But we also have a good point about Virulina and Visaggio's writing in general, that echoes some wider sentiments about the miniseries:

Sunstar wrote:Ultimately I am not entirely sure if the root of my anger is because it's ultimately good writing that makes me feel something (like how TAAO annual made me cry) or because I feel they are not doing any justice to the story, or anything that will further the story of the Transformers on Cybertron. I get the feeling I won't get my answer until after the last book.



---


Art wise, something that users haven't really touched other than once more to talk about Virulina, we still have Fico Ossio and David Garcia Cruz do some really, and I mean, really good work on pretty much the entire organic cast, including the more spectral or hologrammic (not a word) of it.

The issue, once more - though less so I thought compared to previous issues too - is with Cybertronians, and specifically with their faces. Ossio is working hard, and he's working into a style that makes the angular robotic physiognomy fit to his own.. but we're not quite there just yet, and it mostly shows in background shots, rather than close-ups.

Image
On the other hand, Sassy Ironhide


And that last point circles back to the main ones made about the series above: arriving to the Transformers is always on the background, or backburner, be it with the fittingness of the artist's style to the characters or the writing that is still relying on not-exactly IDW characterisation of the cast (see previous reviews for more on this point).

Image
see review title


Overall, the issue is an improvement on the previous two, though for the Transformers side of things that doesn't really amount to much, but it does build to more of the characters having more or less of an agency than initially seen - up to the final act of the book, at least. It's still unfortunate, but there may be a lot in this particular book that Visionaries fans will appreciate I feel, even more than previously in the series; it just comes at the (literal) expense of Transformers.

Thumbnail: Variant cover by Jeffrey Veregge


:HASBRO: :HASBRO: ½ out of :HASBRO: :HASBRO: :HASBRO: :HASBRO: :HASBRO:
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby william-james88 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:03 am

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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:21 am

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Do you know some humanoid series that could have meshed better with Transformers?

Centurions

Starcom

Jayce and The Wheeled Warriors

Why? Because they have a technological slant to them. Visionaries took place on a world made medieval again when technology crashed. That's not what this Visionaries comes across as. While I did like Visionaries back in the day, had a few of the toys too, I can neither endorse this series or the design aesthetic behind it.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:31 am

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Skeleton warriors Vs Visionaries...there we go.

As for transformers? Zoids. You know it makes sense
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:36 am

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Zoids or Robotix would work. Then again so would Go-Bots but that option is lost in Rights Limbo...
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Big Grim » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:07 am

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Do you know some humanoid series that could have meshed better with Transformers?

Centurions

This. Very much this! But then, MASK should have worked! How did they manage to mess that up?!?
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:11 am

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Big Grim wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Do you know some humanoid series that could have meshed better with Transformers?

Centurions

This. Very much this! But then, MASK should have worked! How did they manage to mess that up?!?


My guess, much like Visionairies, trying to reinvent the wheel.
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Re: Mini-Review of IDW Transformers vs Visionaries #3

Postby Jack Hallows » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:23 am

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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby o.supreme » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:24 am

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Just curious, the title to the article says #3, but isn't this a review for #4?

*edit* never mind, I just read the part about you being behind...sorry :oops: . I'm just not used to actually having my comics before they are reviewed here.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Va'al » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:36 am

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o.supreme wrote:Just curious, the title to the article says #3, but isn't this a review for #4?

*edit* never mind, I just read the part about you being behind...sorry :oops: . I'm just not used to actually having my comics before they are reviewed here.



You made me double doubt myself and triple check, well done! :D
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby o.supreme » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:47 am

Motto: "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
^That certainly was not my intention. I know how busy you all are, without my interference. Again my apologies. :BOWDOWN:

I know these comics have different covers, I should have just looked at the little #3 in the corner rather than just assuming it was a new issue because the cover was different from my #3.

Anyways, I'm really not *feeling* this new take on Visionaries. Sorry I'm stuck in the 80's on this one. Also I have all 3 issues, and admittedly I haven't read them in depth, just a few pages here and there. One of my favorite parts of the old show, as cheesy as it may seem now, were all the sayings they would utter to activate their totems/staffs. Has anyone said one of those yet? I don't need an exact reference , I'll dig and find it myself, just a yes or no would suffice. ;)
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby ThunderThruster » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:04 pm

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The incantations for their staffs was one of the things that helped immerse you in the world of Prismos.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:06 pm

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From memory, one of my favourites sounded something like:

By what creeps, what crawls, by what does not, Let all that grows recede and rot
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby o.supreme » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:13 pm

Motto: "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
All the incantations can be found here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visionari ... ical_Light


I liked Witterquick's especially with how fast he could say it. Cryotek and Cindarr's were also pretty neat.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby partholon » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:28 pm

ZeroWolf wrote:It still seems to be a bad decision to use transformers as their launching pad. Is transformers really the best selling comic of the hasbro titles? Aside from trying to argue it's magic vs technology (which could be pulled off better if it was visionaries vs gi Joe in my opinion as both are humans, just from different worlds)



dont confuse bad execution with a bad idea.

i was thinking the reason this series is such a dumpster fire is down to the writer , but the more i think about it the more it seems to be the editorial decision to tie it into first strike/ revolutionaires set up/event.

THATS whats killing this as it makes no bleeding sense as a way of launching a visionaries book down the line. Worse its incredibly jarring with the two OFFICIAL TF books. as it is im ignoring it entirely and basically considering it an "elsworld/what if" story

TF / Visionaires makes more sense than GI JOE/ visionaires as aliens are more suited to TF lore and already a pre existing thing. pre the cataclysm prismos was a very advanced alien world so while they may use "magic" now theyre set up as sci/fi concept first. aliens in GI joe though? usually comes off as daft.

the template they SHOULDVE used was the one already tried and tested with ROM/TF.

if I was doing it id set it in the past during the war. have them meet as a TF exploratio/inflitration team seeks to asses the anti technology "magic" is starting up on a pre cataclysm prismos. make THAT the threat that endangers the universe as it threatens to go beyond their solar system as we watch it play out on prismos and its characters, and finally have the TF Bots and Cons work together to seal away the prismos sysetm behind a dyson sphere who's job it is to contain the effect.

mix and match as to the details on the whys and wherefores and who's responsible for what but at the end of the day youve introduced the concept , had the two franchises meet, and left them in a position where you can launch a self contained visionaires series from either where you left off, or in the "modern day" and jump straight into how things have changed over the years. all with the added bonus of not pissing all over tranformers in the process.

theres plenty of ways this couldve been done better and its sad to see it play out the way its being done. worse that with the sales figs the way they are i dont see a hope in hell of them getting their own book.

such a pity.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:10 pm

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I don't know, I still think gi Joe crossed with visionaries would result better, besides gi Joe now has aliens like the tfs and any aliens in that series is in the gi Joe comics as per being in the hasbroverse. Still since I suggested it earlier, I know need a skeleton warriors Vs Visionaries series, they both have a lot in common. Plus zoids is set to make a return in Japan this summer so maybe idw will get to make a comic based on them and I'll get a zoids Vs Transformers miniseries after all ;-)
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:18 pm

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Always Guilty..."
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Ahem...

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