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"Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

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"Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

Postby Tigertrack » Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:18 am

Motto: "A good head and a good heart are always a formidable combination."
Weapon: Sniper Rifle
“The evaluation is self-evident: one of their lives is not worth one of ours. That’s what the math dictates.”


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Let me get this off my chest first and foremost. I am a Prowl S-L-A-P-P-Y. He was one of the first toys I owned as a child. From the TV show, he was also not everybody’s favorite robot, but he did see plenty of screen time, so I felt comfortable having him as a favorite that nobody else did. Man did I hate seeing him go down like he did in the movie.

In the Marvel comics, he was forgettable until the final issues of the series (“An 80- issue miniseries!”), mostly because in the span of the first 10 issues, he and a band of other Autobots were put down for the count early on by Shockwave, and then put into storage until they could be repaired. When Grimlock found the nucleon and repaired all the wrecked Autobots (wikitron fan fact- causing them to no longer have alt modes), Prowl came back to lead the Autobots as Bludegon led the Decepticons...and of course, Prowl led the Autobots into a Decepticon trap that just about destroyed them. Can’t catch a break. Grimlock dispised him as a weak leader as well.

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So, I think you get the picture. Prowl’s claims to fame have been...
-right hand robot to the leader
-tactician/strategist
-unfeeling, logic driven cad
-incompetent leader and soldier
-overall ‘party pooper’ of the Autobots

He did have a shining moment, at least in this Prowl fan’s eyes.

The episode Roll For It in Season 1 was the closest we’ve seen to an independent Prowl who does more than think, or act as a ‘yes man’ to authority. Unfortunately, he needed Chip Chase’s help to be this remarkable a warrior.

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The TakaraTomy Binaltech fiction saw the reemergence of Prowl as a character, but again, needing Chip Chase as his more human side.

Prowl has been in every re-imagining of Generation One continuity you can name. His importance, as already stated, has never really gone past that of strategist relying on facts. As you can imagine, when the Transformers Spotlight Prowl was announced I was really excited ('Starscream fangirl' excited, no, excited, yes) that we might get something more about this underrated character.

Artwork:

The return of E.J. Su. Through the hazy mists who is it that we see reappear to light our darkest hour? None other than Transformers artist E.J. Su, back at work with IDW drawing Transformers.

“Hi, I’m EJ Su, you may remember me from such previous Transformers stories as Transformers: Infiltration, the hiding, and Transformers: Escalation, the slow build.”


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Oh, and remember when we didn’t like E.J’s new designs on our 'Precious'? Many of us would love to see him come back and give Transformers Ongoing pencils a go.

His art does create a familiar, happy feeling to return to though. E.J. calls upon his ‘-tion’ style mostly, and brings us simpler, blockier designs based on each character’s Classics and Universe toy (for those that had one).

The work is gritty, and energetic, and yet, it fits like an old glove. Textures are handled, but not in an overly complex way. The inks and colors work well with the pencils to create an effect that many of us have missed in our Transformers comics lately.

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"AWESOME!"

What I really like though are the uses of the large, dark, shadow spots. They work well, and as a style, allow the artist to use less detail, and think more about the inter-workings of the negative and positive spaces these dark shadows cause. It also allows for more attention to be brought to the parts that are bright, which are usually the most important to helping us see the story.

I am sure that the art is going to cause some wincing among fans, but I find it refreshing, nostalgic, and interesting to look at. It has a certain MIke Mignola Hellboy feel to it (with less hell, more boy) that works well with Transformers.

Plot/Writing:

Since All Hail Megatron Coda #15, Prowl has been left out of things. We’ve seen him helping Rodimus Prime’s bunch trying to get off of Earth in the Transformers Ongoing series (wikitron Fan Fact: Prowl got captured by humans as he was baited into trying to save Breakdown then rescued *edit* in a battle that saw the loss of Ironhide). We’ve seen him pulling some strings as a high ranking Autobot leader to get certain people into certain places (See Spotlights Kup, and Ultra Magnus, and Last Stand of the Wreckers #4).

All this has led us to think is that Prowl is pretty much the Autobot equivalent of Shockwave, albeit less powerful of a fighter. Always calculating the math, and making decisions based on logic and numbers, never using instincts, or feeling to make his decisions. Prowl supports the Autobot cause to no end, and really does not question authority, as long as logic, and the numbers, support it.

This 'attempting to save Breakdown' incident in TF Ongoing #1 was a step in a new direction for Prowl. For those who may have thought, ‘What the hell?’ when Prowl made that somewhat uncharacteristic move, you’re about to be enlightened. This story tells the tale of Prowl between All Hail Megatron, and Transformers Ongoing #1. It gives us insights into the character that we perhaps have not given much thought to, or thought that the writers had given much thought to either.

This spotlight also helps fill in some pieces (like AHM Coda did), it is a fairly necessary read for anyone trying to make sense of the continuity that IDW is placing together.

For fans of Generation One characters that transform into police cars that are not named Streetwise, Siren, or Stakeout, this is written for you, as well.

Finally, Prowl fans can feel good that their guy is not just a logic driven, uncaring, strategist. We saw some passion in the Marvel series, and on the old cartoon, but until now, have really only seen him giving, and receiving orders.

In this issue Prowl has some intense inner dialogue where he is calculating the effectiveness of what they are doing on Earth, making suggestions, and feeling the command structure fall to pieces around him. He is caught up between his emotions and the logic, and this is what drives the story.

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And then we see the heart in the tin man...

The entirety of the issue is either Prowl ‘debating’ with himself, self-narrating the story, or dialogue where he interacts with others. It fits very well. It is well written, and Mike Costa deserves praise for this issues success because he is sure getting enough people contesting his writing/pacing in Transformers Ongoing.

This issue allows us to get into Prowl’s head, and heart, and finally feel he’s...something.

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Long time coming, long overdue, and well executed. Prowl fan happy. Enjoy.

Check out the 5-page Prowl preview here, the issue hits your local comic shop somewhere near tomorrow.
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Re: "Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

Postby RiddlerJ » Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:02 am

Yeah I have to admit. I wasn't thrilled with how Furman wrote Prowl in those Marvel issues. It seems like his whole purpose was to make Grimlock look badass by comparison.
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Re: "Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

Postby Darth Bombshell » Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:28 am

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Weapon: Cerebro-Shell Launcher
No matter how much this thing explains Prowl's actions in Ongoing #1, I will always have a problem with the concept of this issue. Everyone knows about cause and effect, where we do something and the effect of our actions is immediately apparent. It's been obvious over the past two years that IDW has operated on the effect and cause principle, where they present the effect of the action, then show us the action later on only if they feel like it (or are prodded by the overly obsessive fanbase.)

The most obvious example of this was AHM Coda, which came into existence not because of IDW's over hyped "success of AHM" lie, but because enough fans griped about the inconsistencies in the story to what came before. This is the next best example. This issue exists solely because too many fans griped about Prowl's OOC actions in the first issue of the ongoing, so here we get the explanation.

I really need to break my addiction to TF comics. If this is the sort of thing they're going to be putting out there, it's simply not worth my cash every month.
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Re: "Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

Postby Tigertrack » Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:33 am

Motto: "A good head and a good heart are always a formidable combination."
Weapon: Sniper Rifle
Darth Bombshell wrote:No matter how much this thing explains Prowl's actions in Ongoing #1, I will always have a problem with the concept of this issue. Everyone knows about cause and effect, where we do something and the effect of our actions is immediately apparent. It's been obvious over the past two years that IDW has operated on the effect and cause principle, where they present the effect of the action, then show us the action later on only if they feel like it (or are prodded by the overly obsessive fanbase.)

The most obvious example of this was AHM Coda, which came into existence not because of IDW's over hyped "success of AHM" lie, but because enough fans griped about the inconsistencies in the story to what came before. This is the next best example. This issue exists solely because too many fans griped about Prowl's OOC actions in the first issue of the ongoing, so here we get the explanation.

I really need to break my addiction to TF comics. If this is the sort of thing they're going to be putting out there, it's simply not worth my cash every month.


Very true, but it is a style of writing to leave mysteries, plot holes, and so forth, and have them revealed later.

No matter how much they will never be 'my' version of TF comics, I still enjoy reading them. This enlightening into Prowl's change in thinking and logic only dictation of action creates a new angle to the character that we can enjoy.
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Re: "Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

Postby Darth Bombshell » Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:42 am

Motto: "Insanity is a state of mind, and I have a home there."
Weapon: Cerebro-Shell Launcher
tigertracks 24 wrote:Very true, but it is a style of writing to leave mysteries, plot holes, and so forth, and have them revealed later.


Yes, but it does so by intentionally hiding the reason behind the mysteries and brazenly ignoring the plot holes, thinking their readers are ignorant enough not to notice them.
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Re: "Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

Postby Jeysie » Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:57 am

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Darth Bombshell wrote:Yes, but it does so by intentionally hiding the reason behind the mysteries and brazenly ignoring the plot holes, thinking their readers are ignorant enough not to notice them.

Yeah, the way most of IDW's recent stuff has been structured plot-wise is just an amateurish mistake they're trying to pass off as a good way to write, IMHO. There's a fair bit of "How to Write Science Fiction and Fantasy" by Card that does a good job of explaining right and wrong ways to handle exposition and mysteries, and why they're "right" and "wrong".

But honestly, I think one only has to contrast with Wreckers here, which gets it oh so right. Instead of artificially holding back information and leaving the audience in the dark compared to the characters, and showing cause after effect, it structures the story so that we always have an amount of information that feels natural to what's going on, yet is just enough to set things up, while holding back just that one last bit of information that makes it all click. When we finally get the reveal, instead of looking back and going "Buh? Where did that come from?" we can actually see how it fits. And yet it wasn't really guessable until the reveal, even with all of the info we had.

It'll remain to be seen if they 100% pull it all off in the end, but it's been well-crafted so far.

But when it comes to the ongoing... well. I guess I can understand why they handle exposition in such a backwards way; because it takes real writing skill to do it the proper way, and while Costa's better than McCarthy, he still hasn't shown signs of real major skill yet, IMHO. (Especially not with the reveals in Ongoing #5, which swung between idiot plot and "Who didn't see that coming a mile away?")

And... this review and the others I've seen don't fill me with any more confidence. Sorry, but I liked the fact that Prowl was a logic-driven strategist who not only didn't let his emotions control him, but as shown in AHM #15, knows how to control other people's emotions. I don't "need" him to be passionate or any such nonsense. I'm kind of tired of the whole "emotions are better than logic" plotline, and if this turns out to be yet another one I'll be really disappointed.
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Re: "Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

Postby Tigertrack » Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:03 am

Motto: "A good head and a good heart are always a formidable combination."
Weapon: Sniper Rifle
Jeysie wrote:And... this review and the others I've seen don't fill me with any more confidence. Sorry, but I liked the fact that Prowl was a logic-driven strategist who not only didn't let his emotions control him, but as shown in AHM #15, knows how to control other people's emotions. I don't "need" him to be passionate or any such nonsense. I'm kind of tired of the whole "emotions are better than logic" plotline, and if this turns out to be yet another one I'll be really disappointed.


He's not Decepticon. There comes a point where logic cannot dictate over right. This is what he works through the issue trying to see for himself.
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Re: "Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

Postby Jeysie » Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:14 am

Motto: "Peace, Love, and Rock n' Roll"
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tigertracks 24 wrote:He's not Decepticon. There comes a point where logic cannot dictate over right. This is what he works through the issue trying to see for himself.

What does logic have to do with being evil or "wrong"? That's why I'm so tired of the "emotions are better than logic" attitude, because it stems from that "logic is evil/bad, emotions are right/good" fallacy.

You can be logical and good perfectly fine, if you accept that being good doesn't always require being nice, and that sometimes you have to compromise for the greater good. I'm just waiting for the storytellers to figure this out and stop giving us the "You have to be emotional to be a good guy" nonsense.

Roche showed signs of having it figured out the right way, but judging by the review and your response here, Costa won't, and this is going to be yet another frustrating take on it.

(Talking as someone who manages to be logical, unsentimental, and a good person just fine, and would be far more effective if her passionate side didn't get in the way and cloud her thinking at times...)
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Re: "Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

Postby Tigertrack » Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:32 am

Motto: "A good head and a good heart are always a formidable combination."
Weapon: Sniper Rifle
Logical- Not putting yourself in the way of harm

Illogical- saving someone when putting yourself in harm's way.



Wrong- not helping a child to escape a burning building even at the risk of your own life/health.

Right- Helping the innocent to survive at the cost of yourself if need be.


Contradictions? Sure. But that's part of why Prowl is on the side of the Autobots. What they value and believe is right, but the steps they take are not always logical.

A character can show that they are more than a computer analyzing data without spouting words of emotion. That's what I wanted to see from 'my' Prowl, a bot who is not another computer (tool to measure outcomes based on math), but an able being with an awesome ability to analyze and use the math and logic to make choices involving strategy, but still be able to make the 'right' choice when logic/math may dictate you should do otherwise.
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Re: "Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

Postby Jeysie » Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:11 am

Motto: "Peace, Love, and Rock n' Roll"
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tigertracks 24 wrote:Logical- Not putting yourself in the way of harm

Illogical- saving someone when putting yourself in harm's way.

Logical: Putting yourself in the way of harm when you're the best person available for the task, and there's a realistic chance that you'll succeed and/or that any loss you incur will cause less damage than simply letting the mission fail.

Illogical: Risking your life when the chance of success is impossibly slim and losing yourself in addition to failing the mission will cause greater damage than just the mission failing.

Logic isn't about being selfish, or always avoiding risk. It's about knowing what resources are best used where, and managing risk. Sometimes that does in fact mean sacrifices--even self-sacrifice, or doing things that aren't 100% certain. Again, fallacies in understanding.

tigertracks 24 wrote:Contradictions? Sure. But that's part of why Prowl is on the side of the Autobots. What they value and believe is right, but the steps they take are not always logical.

The thing is, the Autobots have a bad tendency to leap before they look, and let their emotions get in the way of doing things that cause much more damage in the long run despite being feel-good in the short run. And Roche's AHM #15 gets Prowl spot-on by having him spend the whole time ruminating on why and how this is hurting the Autobots, and what he can do about it.

tigertracks 24 wrote:but still be able to make the 'right' choice when logic/math may dictate you should do otherwise.

Someone successfully using logic as a means to achieve good ends should always reach a conclusion of action that will achieve the greater good. It may not always be the bleeding-heart notion of doing good, of course, which is where you get your fallacy from.

But writers have a hard time handling a notion of good that doesn't involve blindly doing the "right thing" even if it actually causes greater damage in the long run. They either never have logical good guys, or they structure the story so that, even if the logical person's idea is completely sound and the bleeding-heart thing seems like it'll do a lot of damage, the emotional people get incredibly lucky and "show up" logic by having their emotional thing work.

Like I said, it's a tiresome and frustrating plot device. That's why I loved Roche's take: It seemed like there was a chance the logical person would be right just once, without having to "show their emotional side".
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Re: "Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

Postby Oilspill » Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:26 am

Good review TT. Nothing spoiled yet I now have an idea of what I'm in for. And it makes me want to grab a copy and read it.
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Re: "Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

Postby Dead Metal » Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:40 am

Motto: "Don't do drugs, beer's cheaper anyway!"
How can you see that the whole reason given for the existence of this comic is nothing but bull-sh*t?
Well lets see it this way:
AHM:Coda had Prowl change his character from the way he was portrait before, making him a manipulative b@st@rd (as far as I was informed), so why would they willingly change his character yet again, just one issue after they changed him?

It's just proof for what I've been thinking since AHM#4 idw doesn't give a rats ass for their continuity and think their readers are stupid beyond belief.
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Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?

Blurrz wrote:10/10

Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
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Re: "Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

Postby Prowl1529 » Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:10 pm

Prowl is my favourite Transformer ever. He is no incompetent leader he simple dosen't like to lead he prefers to be the rigth hand "man" of Optimus Prime or any other on the leadership, in that i think he is the best.
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Re: "Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

Postby Tigertrack » Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:11 pm

Motto: "A good head and a good heart are always a formidable combination."
Weapon: Sniper Rifle
Prowl1529 wrote:Prowl is my favourite Transformer ever. He is no incompetent leader he simple dosen't like to lead he prefers to be the rigth hand "man" of Optimus Prime or any other on the leadership, in that i think he is the best.


Indeed he is best as the right-hand man, but all of his attempts at being 'the' leader have had less than desirable results, for the most part.
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Re: "Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:50 pm

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Dead Metal wrote:How can you see that the whole reason given for the existence of this comic is nothing but bull-sh*t?
Well lets see it this way:
AHM:Coda had Prowl change his character from the way he was portrait before, making him a manipulative b@st@rd (as far as I was informed), so why would they willingly change his character yet again, just one issue after they changed him?

It's just proof for what I've been thinking since AHM#4 idw doesn't give a rats ass for their continuity and think their readers are stupid beyond belief.


Gotten it in one. IDW's AHM fiasco has permanently soured me on their product. They don't give a damn about continuity or logical progression of story arcs. Their attempts to fill in gaps or do retcons have been made of suck.
Not caring about scale since 1984. Just like Hasbro.
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Re: "Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

Postby Windsweeper » Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:08 pm

Peronally, I think Prowl should be written like Star Trek's Data. I did like Roche's interpretation of him. I also liked his Dreamwave incarnation and Budiansky's version. Especially liked it when Shockwave had Prime's head and Prowl was in command of the Autobots.

This review has piqued my interest but IDW never drew me in the same way Marvel and Dreamwave did.
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Re: "Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

Postby JazZeke » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:38 pm

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tigertracks 24 wrote:(wikitron Fan Fact: Prowl got captured by humans as he was baited into trying to save Breakdown then released in exchange for Optimus Prime’s surrender)

Ah, no. No, that wasn't what happened. Prowl was rescued by Hot Rod, and during that mission Ironhide was killed. Optimus got emo and surrendered himself supposedly out of guilt.

He's not Decepticon. There comes a point where logic cannot dictate over right. This is what he works through the issue trying to see for himself.

Since when does logic equal evil? In AHM Coda, he was still fighting for the greater good, but using sneakier, morally questionable tactics, while going on about how brash actions do more harm than good. Costa has devolved him into one of those brash, bleeding heart "hero" types that are already a dime a dozen in the Autobot ranks.
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Re: "Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

Postby Tigertrack » Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:08 am

Motto: "A good head and a good heart are always a formidable combination."
Weapon: Sniper Rifle
JazZeke wrote:
tigertracks 24 wrote:(wikitron Fan Fact: Prowl got captured by humans as he was baited into trying to save Breakdown then released in exchange for Optimus Prime’s surrender)

Ah, no. No, that wasn't what happened. Prowl was rescued by Hot Rod, and during that mission Ironhide was killed. Optimus got emo and surrendered himself supposedly out of guilt.

He's not Decepticon. There comes a point where logic cannot dictate over right. This is what he works through the issue trying to see for himself.

Since when does logic equal evil? In AHM Coda, he was still fighting for the greater good, but using sneakier, morally questionable tactics, while going on about how brash actions do more harm than good. Costa has devolved him into one of those brash, bleeding heart "hero" types that are already a dime a dozen in the Autobot ranks.


Logic does not equal evil. When logic empowers you to make choices whose consequences you know, and choose have 'evil' results it does, like any such quality, or ability.

I will edit my entry accordingly based on your fact check. Thanks for keeping me straight.
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Re: "Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

Postby Jeysie » Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:48 am

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Weapon: Dirge Gun
tigertracks 24 wrote:Logic does not equal evil. When logic empowers you to make choices whose consequences you know, and choose have 'evil' results it does, like any such quality, or ability.

Except that Prowl so far has done nothing that he expects to have evil results.

Was what he did to Kup morally questionable? Yes. But he did it aiming to have good results--namely, getting the Autobots to listen to him enough to start acting like a well-polished team instead of going off half-cocked. There is nothing Decepticon in Prowl's motivations--his aim has always and ever been to do what will net the Autobots the most gain for the least casualties. Sometimes that means you don't get to be pure and lily-white, but that's a far, far cry from being evil or Decepticon.

I think Prowl will eventually learn there's lines that shouldn't be crossed--or at least feel more remorse about crossing them--but that doesn't mean turning him into a bleeding-heart. He should always be the character willing to do what's practical for the greater good, even if sometimes it's not "pure", because you need at least one person like that in a non-fluffy world where you don't always get to do the "pure" thing.
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Re: "Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

Postby Tigertrack » Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:54 am

Motto: "A good head and a good heart are always a formidable combination."
Weapon: Sniper Rifle
Jeysie wrote:
tigertracks 24 wrote:Logic does not equal evil. When logic empowers you to make choices whose consequences you know, and choose have 'evil' results it does, like any such quality, or ability.

Except that Prowl so far has done nothing that he expects to have evil results.

Was what he did to Kup morally questionable? Yes. But he did it aiming to have good results--namely, getting the Autobots to listen to him enough to start acting like a well-polished team instead of going off half-cocked. There is nothing Decepticon in Prowl's motivations--his aim has always and ever been to do what will net the Autobots the most gain for the least casualties. Sometimes that means you don't get to be pure and lily-white, but that's a far, far cry from being evil or Decepticon.

I think Prowl will eventually learn there's lines that shouldn't be crossed--or at least feel more remorse about crossing them--but that doesn't mean turning him into a bleeding-heart. He should always be the character willing to do what's practical for the greater good, even if sometimes it's not "pure", because you need at least one person like that in a non-fluffy world where you don't always get to do the "pure" thing.


And I agree. Not everything has to be fluffy finish, nor straight forward right or wrong. I agree good guys can make choices that cross lines of morality, that may cost them what others are not willing to give (ie- friendship, trust whatever, if Kupp ever finds out), but I also feel that they should be able to grow to see things differently, to find logic in a perspective that they found illogical before based on new information.

I don't want flower picking patsy Autobots. I want characters to evolve make choices, and be used for more than just the background, or to give orders. Let us know a little more about, how or why, they act, or make choices that they do.

I really look forward to your thoughts POST reading this issue, and of course, Wreckers.
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Re: "Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

Postby Jeysie » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:24 am

Motto: "Peace, Love, and Rock n' Roll"
Weapon: Dirge Gun
Well, now I'm just confused, as your comments here and in the other thread seem to be completely opposite from what you've been saying so far. So... *shrug*

tigertracks 24 wrote:I really look forward to your thoughts POST reading this issue, and of course, Wreckers.

And I'll give them. Hopefully it doesn't take me a blasted week to get a copy from IDW's store like it took me last month to get Wreckers #3. :P
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Re: "Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

Postby lowman_x » Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:12 am

Motto: "It's all about perspective."
Weapon: High-Energy Particle Beam Rifle
Just read Spotlight: Prowl.

I, for one, really liked it. Prowl has never been a character I have had much interest in but this issue was well-written and even better drawn. I can see the logical steps he has taken over the last several years (story-wise) to where he would actually break cover to help a fellow Cybertronian (Breakdown).

He is transforming.

This story may be a retcon or it may be something that IDW have had in the works for a while but either way I thouhgt it was a great read both narratively and visually.
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Re: "Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

Postby Mkall » Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:11 pm

Weapon: Twin Sonic Cannons
I didn't realize how much I missed the one-off Spotlight series. I hope to read more of them in the future.
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Re: "Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

Postby Jeysie » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:59 pm

Motto: "Peace, Love, and Rock n' Roll"
Weapon: Dirge Gun
Jeysie wrote:But writers have a hard time handling a notion of good that doesn't involve blindly doing the "right thing" even if it actually causes greater damage in the long run. They either never have logical good guys, or they structure the story so that, even if the logical person's idea is completely sound and the bleeding-heart thing seems like it'll do a lot of damage, the emotional people get incredibly lucky and "show up" logic by having their emotional thing work.

Like I said, it's a tiresome and frustrating plot device. That's why I loved Roche's take: It seemed like there was a chance the logical person would be right just once, without having to "show their emotional side".

Having read this finally...

Oh, hey, look what kind of story we got here! The same old frustrating type of crap that writers always do and I'm sick of. Almost exactly to the letter.

I always hated the fact that Prowl tended to get marginalized as the logical, practical person that nobody ever listens to because the Plot Luck means that the illogical, reckless plan of action turns out to always be the correct one, so the logical guy just ends up coming off as whiny and ineffectual. Even -ations Prowl came off as a blind stick-in-the-mud sometimes.

Then we finally get a story from Roche that gives us a Prowl who's logical and cold and actually is right, to the point where his advice being ignored has, yes, actually hurt the Autobots. And the fact that he chooses morally questionable methods to get people to listen to him for their own good had so much interesting potential to cover. Finally we could understand why Prowl is high-up in command even though he rubs everyone the wrong way. But now we're back to the guy who has to give in and be impulsive and emotional due to Plot Luck negating all of his logic, it seems.

What I would have liked to have seen here instead is a story where Prowl still refrains from doing the impulsive, illogical thing and turns out to be right in his judgment... yet for once actually feels remorse about it. As I think that is the real growth Prowl needed to undergo--not some silly "lesson" that he shouldn't be logical and practical all the time or should do impulsive illogical things just because they're "right", but the fact that he shouldn't be so cold-blooded in his feelings about having to sometimes compromise and do cold things. I loved the fact that, for a change, Prowl got to be as competent and shrewd as Shockwave; he just needed to develop that moral center while still doing it that makes him solidly an Autobot vs. Shockwave.

This story sure as hell isn't that. And I was kind of hoping that the thing with Kup might eventually lead to that sort of revelation, but I don't see it happening now either.

Well, at least the art was good. I really love Su's new style... the new designs manage to be more mechanical and alien, but without sacrificing being endearing and expressive.

The dialogue was good too... Costa at least is decent at the technical side of writing. I just wish that almost all of his ideas so far weren't so boring, cliche, and predictable. I-)

(We won't even get into how this is another step in Prime's transformation from, in the -ations, being the only Optimus Prime I could respect as having a practical and hard-nosed counterbalance to his compassion, to being the same sort of Lawful Stupid idiot that every other Optimus Prime is and that I always want to smack upside the head.)
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Re: "Logic is the ultimate weapon"- Transformers Spotlight Prowl Review

Postby sabrigami » Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:54 pm

Weapon: Semi-Automatic Rifle
Jeysie wrote:
Jeysie wrote:But writers have a hard time handling a notion of good that doesn't involve blindly doing the "right thing" even if it actually causes greater damage in the long run. They either never have logical good guys, or they structure the story so that, even if the logical person's idea is completely sound and the bleeding-heart thing seems like it'll do a lot of damage, the emotional people get incredibly lucky and "show up" logic by having their emotional thing work.

Like I said, it's a tiresome and frustrating plot device. That's why I loved Roche's take: It seemed like there was a chance the logical person would be right just once, without having to "show their emotional side".

Having read this finally...

Oh, hey, look what kind of story we got here! The same old frustrating type of crap that writers always do and I'm sick of. Almost exactly to the letter.

I always hated the fact that Prowl tended to get marginalized as the logical, practical person that nobody ever listens to because the Plot Luck means that the illogical, reckless plan of action turns out to always be the correct one, so the logical guy just ends up coming off as whiny and ineffectual. Even -ations Prowl came off as a blind stick-in-the-mud sometimes.

Then we finally get a story from Roche that gives us a Prowl who's logical and cold and actually is right, to the point where his advice being ignored has, yes, actually hurt the Autobots. And the fact that he chooses morally questionable methods to get people to listen to him for their own good had so much interesting potential to cover. Finally we could understand why Prowl is high-up in command even though he rubs everyone the wrong way. But now we're back to the guy who has to give in and be impulsive and emotional due to Plot Luck negating all of his logic, it seems.

What I would have liked to have seen here instead is a story where Prowl still refrains from doing the impulsive, illogical thing and turns out to be right in his judgment... yet for once actually feels remorse about it. As I think that is the real growth Prowl needed to undergo--not some silly "lesson" that he shouldn't be logical and practical all the time or should do impulsive illogical things just because they're "right", but the fact that he shouldn't be so cold-blooded in his feelings about having to sometimes compromise and do cold things. I loved the fact that, for a change, Prowl got to be as competent and shrewd as Shockwave; he just needed to develop that moral center while still doing it that makes him solidly an Autobot vs. Shockwave.

This story sure as hell isn't that. And I was kind of hoping that the thing with Kup might eventually lead to that sort of revelation, but I don't see it happening now either.

Well, at least the art was good. I really love Su's new style... the new designs manage to be more mechanical and alien, but without sacrificing being endearing and expressive.

The dialogue was good too... Costa at least is decent at the technical side of writing. I just wish that almost all of his ideas so far weren't so boring, cliche, and predictable. I-)

(We won't even get into how this is another step in Prime's transformation from, in the -ations, being the only Optimus Prime I could respect as having a practical and hard-nosed counterbalance to his compassion, to being the same sort of Lawful Stupid idiot that every other Optimus Prime is and that I always want to smack upside the head.)


That's exactly how I feel. After finally getting around to reading AHM 15, reading the spotlight today really ticked me off because they made Prowl just like everyone else. Man, I'm Becoming so spoiled now after LSoTW and Mr. Roche's other works. If only they would let him and James take the wheel.
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