Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[ScottyP]

Welcome to the latest edition of the Seibertron.com Twincast! This episode features your Host, Counterpunch, along with regular crew Seibertron, the Epic Return of Razorclaw0000, Rotorstorm, and Scotty P.

Episode 85 "Pirates vs. Twincast" is available directly and in our RSS Feed and should appear on iTunes within 24 to 48 hours of this news post.

Read on to find out what we jabber on about in this edition, or just listen in!

We catch up with the cast and find out exactly how much snow everyone is buried under!

That is actually Rotorstorm's driveway. Yes, really.

Then, we start out the actual show with awesome rockin' Listener Questions straight from the Ask the Twincast thread. Your inquiries about Springer's lot in life, sealed packages, what kids like, and more get center stage right at the top of the show.

Age of Extinction news then hits fast and furious, and we start out by taking a look at the Hero Mashers line. Do these look like fun stuff, or just glorified tub toys?

We've also got a first, clear look at the "new" Bumblebee. Are the cast's Camaro Engines revved and ready to sting? Stay tuned, as Counterpunch unexpectedly drops some R/C knowledge on our brains.

Apparently, this Lockdown Car Decepticon Guy has a face, and it's pretty human-like. How does this development sit with our fearless cast? Or is this not a surprise at all?

We then debate the age old question of Pirates vs... Knights?!. We also propose how Stella Botcon can get her their groove back.

We then move on at last to our thoughts on the latest wave of Generations Deluxe figures. From Macro-cons to Seekers, we've got you covered with opinions everywhere.

Time to weapon up, wallflowers! Seibertron himself was lucky enough to already have Generations Voyager Whirl in hand when we recorded, so listen in as he fills us in on what awesome times await the rest of us.

We turn our collective eye of Sauron to the future and ponder what's in store for future Generations waves including Chromia, Arcee, Jhiaxus, and others.

We wrap up our toy talk with in-hand thoughts on the simplified Beast Hunters Voyagers. Pleasant surprise? Crushing disappointment? Both?

Then it's time once again to say goodbye, but before that, some bragging rights are to be had. Who's caught up on what? And what bomb does that loser-face Scotty have to drop on us this time?

That SOB actually built it.

Thanks everyone for listening and we appreciate the continued support!

Not on the show to give your take? Probably not, so don't forget to keep the discussion going on the Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums!

Got a question for the Twincast? We take all of them, we just don't take them all seriously! Leave a question in the Ask the Twincast thread and, if it makes the cut, it may get read and answered on the show.

[welcometothedarksyde]

Rotorstorm's driveway looks like an average October through April in Saskatchewan. Up here near Detroit there's been a fair amount of snow. It just been so cold that it hasn't melted. Can't wait to give this one a listen!

[Doctor McGrath]

Woooohooooo! Bobs back!

Love that Springer shot too!

[craggy]

I love that you guys complain about condescension from the club re:Botcon toys, and then say "well you guys should just go to Botcon if you want the toys".

[Seibertron]

I love that you guys complain about condescension from the club re:Botcon toys, and then say "well you guys should just go to Botcon if you want the toys".

It's not the same thing. We're not talking down to you or acting like we are superior to anyone. We're just fans like you guys. If you want exclusives from a convention, you should go to the convention where you can obtain the exclusives. If you choose not to or can't attend the event for whatever reason, then paying aftermarket prices and/or extremely limited availability of those exclusives should be anticipated. We pay a premium for exclusives from foreign countries because we're not able to attend and I'm OK with that. I have trouble understanding people who expect exclusives to be widely available after a special event or they complain about the markup of those exclusives because it's not a bad deal when you consider the cost of airfare, hotels, food, and time.

[craggy]

believe me, considering time, the cost of airfare and hotels is exactly why you're unlikely to see me at Botcon. It's not feasible. Honestly, considering this, the prices for Botcon figures on the aftermarket are understandable and I'm not complaining about that. Also, the toys aren't exactly cheap at the shows to begin with.

The opinions regarding the content of these exclusive sets did annoy me a little. I definitely agree that Pirates vs Knights is a very strange choice for the 30th anniversary year. Suggestions that something like the 2007 set with some very core characters would ensure people attended the show is ridiculous. There are a lot of people who simply can't attend, and I feel it's very condescending that those of you who can go every year have the attitude that key parts of many people's ideas of what they want in their collections should be reduced to just appearing in a highly exclusive set.

Hasbro has, of course, since released a Classics Thundercracker, Dirge and Thrust in their main line (I'd still like another go at Ramjet though) and they were very welcome, but for a long time there it seemed like the only way to get those characters was to buy expensive, exclusive (or foreign or KO) toys. Admittedly, this isn't necessarily the Club's fault, since I understand they can only use molds and colour-schemes/names that Hasbro doesn't intend to use. I just don't feel that it's right in general to say that some of the more requested characters, especially when they're part of established teams whose other members have been released in mass retail, should be part of these limited release sets.

Imagine if FOC Bruticus had kept one of the limb-bots to be a Botcon/SDCC exclusive whilst releasing the rest across the country? I'd argue that a Seeker trio is at least on the same level of importance to many collectors as a version of a Scramble City team.

Of course, that isn't to say that I disagree with a lot of the points raised. The Knights of Cybertron idea could be cool. The pirates theme could be a lot of fun too. The initial Cannonball reveal is pretty nice. I like these because they're definitely more niche characters, but still ones that appeal. It being the 30th anniversary though, more Diaclone colours on Classics molds would have been my preferred choice. I'm sure lots of people would like to see this kind of thing but very few would consider them important to the core of a collection.

[ScottyP]

In the quick on the fly context of a Podcast discussion, the general view on Botcon set content may have seemed a little condescending or elitist, but there are a couple important facts to remember that frame that conversation. Chief among these facts - Botcon toys, at least when they are initially designed/conceived/released, are toy ideas that Hasbro has no plans of doing, ever. In other words, if Botcon didn't do them, they just plain would not exist.

In an ideal world, every Transformer we ever wanted would be a $10-$20 toy that could be grabbed at will from mass retail. We don't live in this world.

What it boils down to, at least for me, is that these Botcon toys are opportunities to do things that will never, ever be an inexpensive mass retail release. These are expensive toys, might as well make them as great as possible. This can put them in a tough spot:

- Do stuff like the 2007 set, generally agreed upon as one of, if not their best ever, sets, which upset a large number of fans that couldn't pay to play.

- Do stuff like the 2013 set, which was neat, but still pricey, but in general no one cared about it.

These sets are going to happen anyway, and any content in them is either not coming to retail or not going to exist otherwise. Why not make stuff that's memorable, fun, and feels special? If they do something that fills a core hole in a collection, I think that's great! Sure, there will be a lot of folks that get sad because they can't afford that core piece, but at least it exists in that scenario. This is barring a third party doing it, but hey, those are just as expensive as Botcon items.

That's at least the premise I operate on, and yeah, without that context it probably sounds a little snobby to ask for more core collection pieces in a Botcon set. Don't always have time or the forethought to give that kind of context right there on the fly

[Seibertron]

The opinions regarding the content of these exclusive sets did annoy me a little. I definitely agree that Pirates vs Knights is a very strange choice for the 30th anniversary year. Suggestions that something like the 2007 set with some very core characters would ensure people attended the show is ridiculous. There are a lot of people who simply can't attend, and I feel it's very condescending that those of you who can go every year have the attitude that key parts of many people's ideas of what they want in their collections should be reduced to just appearing in a highly exclusive set.

The point of having convention exclusives should be to have something that makes people want to attend. It's a carrot to get people in the door. I have no problem with those products having retail availability at some point or in some form to make them different from the initial offering. The biggest issue I have with arguments against what I'm saying is that making sure I can attend BotCon or whatever events I want to attend throughout the year is really important to me. So I make it happen ever year. I make sure my finances are in order. I always made sure I had ample vacation time with my employers so that I could attend these events. Now that I'm self employed I make sure that my schedule is clear during these times which means no planning of family vacations until we know the dates for events like BotCon.

The idea of a 5th member of a gestalt team being available exclusively at BotCon is ridiculous and none of us would suggest that that happen. That's poor marketing. However, at the time in 2006/2007 when Hasbro said (more or less) to Fun Pub, "go ahead and do those figures because we have no idea if we're going to return to Classics after the Movie 2007 toyline is completed", the Club did something amazing and gave us a set of figures that we may never have gotten, especially when you consider how early on BotCon has to plan out their figures which means that they would have planned them probably around the same time as when Classics was hitting the shelves for the first time, or even before.

Regardless, I know the 2007 set is a sensitive issue. I understand why that set was so frustrating to so many people. I also understand the argument that you are trying to make as have many others stated similar comments over the past 7 years since that set. I still stand by my opinion that the figures sold at BotCon should be highly desired figures and fairly popular characters amongst Transformers fans. The idea of a convention exclusive should be to get people in the doors. Bottom line. That's the primary point to having an exclusive alongside an opportunity for a convention's operators to have another source of revenue other than ticket sales.

Since 2007, it feels like they've gone out of their way to offer BotCon exclusives that won't upset the fandom which in turn means it's been a string of lackluster sets. While there have been some great figures along the way, the 2006 set was the best overall set in my opinion. Every toy belonged in the set. Every toy made a great homage to popular characters. The set's storyline filled in an important gap in Transformers history and truly added something special for Beast Wars fans. I personally didn't like the 2008 Shattered Glass theme, but I will acknowledge that it was a great overall set as well and a fun way to offer new takes on popular characters ... it just wasn't for me (but I don't have to like every BotCon set and I don't expect that I should). Since then, it's been a string of lackluster sets which I don't understand why since there are some very passionate fans running this event and that are part of the "council" that decides on the exclusives.

[xRotorstormx]

Rotorstorm's driveway looks like an average October through April in Saskatchewan. Up here near Detroit there's been a fair amount of snow. It just been so cold that it hasn't melted. Can't wait to give this one a listen!

Hasn't this winter been great? Thank goodness its finally warming up to about 20 so that some of the snow is melting. We've been running out of room!

Here are some of the photos from the robot restaurant I had been talking about

[megatronus]

Thanks for taking my (less indignant, more tongue in cheek) Springer question! As always, it was interesting to hear your opinions.

[Va'al]

Ha! My name. (I've never thought of how to pronounce it, but if I were to choose it would be somewhere between this and this.)

Yay, I got thanked! It was fun doing all that stuff, especially as such a newcomer to the scene in terms of press and such. And yes, only investors and traders were able to actually see main line products, and the brand manager for Hasbro UK was unavailable for any minor meeting with me.