The Energon Pub

Sowndwave76 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:But without the trailer, he's just Hot Rod... which we already have in Studio Series.

Agree to disagree...
Rodimus is still Rodimus even when he's not in his alt mode, or in the trailer using the cannon (or for any other reason).
Let alone all of the differences of the figure itself compared to SS86 Hot Rod.

The cartoon literally used Hot Rod's animation model for Rodimus's robot mode. They just stuck Rodimus's head on it.

Sabrblade wrote:But without the trailer, he's just Hot Rod... which we already have in Studio Series.

Is the Commander Class figure without the trailer the same as the Studio Series figure? Did they take the SS figure, give him a trailer and sold him for $80?

AcademyofDrX wrote:Target has the "notify me" feature and it's functionally useless for high demand items, because they restock small quantities and don't have anti-bot features.

QFT. The other day I was checking my email and a new one popped up from Target saying the Worlds Collide set was in stock. I quickly added it to my cart, checked out and got hit with a sold out on completion, only took a few minutes. Might have to go to eBay for it and Origin Bee if I don't get one by the end of September.

Emerje

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:But without the trailer, he's just Hot Rod... which we already have in Studio Series.

Is the Commander Class figure without the trailer the same as the Studio Series figure? Did they take the SS figure, give him a trailer and sold him for $80?

Nope, it's his own thing, but Sabrblade meant that in the cartoon they didn't change much.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:But without the trailer, he's just Hot Rod... which we already have in Studio Series.

Is the Commander Class figure without the trailer the same as the Studio Series figure? Did they take the SS figure, give him a trailer and sold him for $80?

no its an entirely new figure, don't worry

I will be holding off on Rodimus. I think it looks good but we were told early on from leakers that of all the commander class figures, this would be the one where the worth is least apparent. And this is what we are seeing. Big ticket items have that extra chance of being discounted too (and the extra chance of being completely sold out due to lower production numbers), it's a chance I have taken in the past. I wasn't going to get Skylynx since I am fine with my G1 figure, but I did buy it when I found it for $50 CAD ($40 USD). And I will say, I now get why folks would be extra dissapointed with Rodimus. While not a complex figure, Skylynx definitely feels like an in between leader and titan. And not just a bit higher than a leader, but really in the middle of those two classes. They really went all out with the concept, giving something definitive. It's the G1 toy/design done right with all the articulation you'd need. While I did not want to spend the money simply because I'm cheap and don't mind if I miss out, I can see how absolutely no one would have been dissapointed spending the 80$ on Skylynx. He legit feels and looks even pricier than that (even more so than Jetfire).

And I am simply saying that in contrast to what I am seeing with the Rodimus feedback. I am sure the costs involved with the toy work with the commander price point (just like the cost going into MP figures work with their price points) but it's not as obvious to us.

For anyone who has Rodimus, is the man bot's transformation scheme more complex than SS86 Hot Rod?

Also, in case this gets buried as a last post on the page, here is my thoughts on selling the trailer seperately again.

william-james88 wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:Here's another thought I've had recently...
IF Hastak's largest consumer group is made up of kids and casual buyers (parents), then why don't they make a shift and have a figure like Rodimus two separate sales?
Sell Rodimus for $52, which while still pricy for some, is obviously better than $85.
Sell the current, full-sized trailer separately for $30

What you are describing has the potential of a retailer nightmare. You cannot predict distribution so what you will 100% end up with are stores which have 20 trailers and no Rodimus. And vice versa. We are seeing this with the Mattel line where across north America you have places that have too much of the main hero figures and no vehicles or battle cars while in other places you have the opposite. My Walmarts have about 20-30 Battlecats each that have never moved and we never got He Man. This just creates shelfwarmers that the store will have to clear at liquidation prices, losing money. And possibly leading to less orders in the future.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:But without the trailer, he's just Hot Rod... which we already have in Studio Series.

Is the Commander Class figure without the trailer the same as the Studio Series figure? Did they take the SS figure, give him a trailer and sold him for $80?

Just an FYI, the SS figure is the size of a deluxe, the commander figure is the size of a voyager.

Sowndwave76 wrote:I think some collectors have trouble understanding that the average parent is already going to shy away from a $50 toy. For an average, middle-class parent, an $85 toy is most likely only happening for a birthday or Christmas, rather than on a random weekend trip to Target

What makes you think this toy is intended for young children and not adult collectors?

Actually, let me ask the question a different way.

How many eight year olds are ripping off the wrapping paper and saying, "Oh wow, it's Rodimus Prime, just what I always wanted, I love it!"

Bonus question: how many forty year olds are doing the same thing? Because it isn't zero!

Thanks guys, but yes, I know the difference between the figures. I was making a point to Sabrblade.

william-james88 wrote:For anyone who has Rodimus, is the man bot's transformation scheme more complex than SS86 Hot Rod?

Yes, definitely. There are a number of similarities, but Rodimus cranks things up a couple notches. The engineering on Rodumus is pretty much MP level maybe without the finer details and finishing touches. I would estimate that the main bot would fill out the leader class price point all on its own. It is a really nice figure and well done. Nicer than I really needed, which is where my disappointment comes in.

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:I think some collectors have trouble understanding that the average parent is already going to shy away from a $50 toy. For an average, middle-class parent, an $85 toy is most likely only happening for a birthday or Christmas, rather than on a random weekend trip to Target

What makes you think this toy is intended for young children and not adult collectors?

The commercial for the line this toy is in which is broadcasted on Kids TV Channels tells me this line is intended for children.



Or at least, as much as this line was

TF-fan kev777 wrote: I would estimate that the main bot would fill out the leader class price point all on its own. It is a really nice figure and well done. Nicer than I really needed, which is where my disappointment comes in.

I'm not sure I follow

william-james88 wrote:

TF-fan kev777 wrote: I would estimate that the main bot would fill out the leader class price point all on its own. It is a really nice figure and well done. Nicer than I really needed, which is where my disappointment comes in.

I'm not sure I follow

I would have been fine with a simpler figure and basic trailer more like ER OP than the extra details and fancier trailer. Especially when those items are what pushed RP out of Leader class and into commander. It is more the taking away a commander slot, for the what 5th iteration of some form of Hot Rod/Rodimus since Combiner Wars, than the execution of commander RP that bugs me. Don't get me wrong, the execution has some flaws, but losing a chance for a bigger bot is what my main issue is.

TF-fan kev777 wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

TF-fan kev777 wrote: I would estimate that the main bot would fill out the leader class price point all on its own. It is a really nice figure and well done. Nicer than I really needed, which is where my disappointment comes in.

I'm not sure I follow

I would have been fine with a simpler figure and basic trailer more like ER OP than the extra details and fancier trailer. Especially when those items are what pushed RP out of Leader class and into commander. It is more the taking away a commander slot, for the what 5th iteration of some form of Hot Rod/Rodimus since Combiner Wars, than the execution of commander RP that bugs me. Don't get me wrong, the execution has some flaws, but losing a chance for a bigger bot is what my main issue is.

Which of these would you have lost then in order to have had leader class Rodimus:
Beast Wars Megs or Galvatron.

If you're wondering why I didn't list Earth Mode um, it's because it wasn’t a complete new mold, being a retool of Siege um

TF-fan kev777 wrote:I would have been fine with a simpler figure and basic trailer more like ER OP than the extra details and fancier trailer. Especially when those items are what pushed RP out of Leader class and into commander. It is more the taking away a commander slot, for the what 5th iteration of some form of Hot Rod/Rodimus since Combiner Wars, than the execution of commander RP that bugs me. Don't get me wrong, the execution has some flaws, but losing a chance for a bigger bot is what my main issue is.

^This, agreed 100%. It is a fine toy to be certain, but starting to blur the lines between CHUG and MP a little too much. Some of course will love that, and some don't.

ZeroWolf wrote:Which of these would you have lost then in order to have had leader class Rodimus:
Beast Wars Megs or Galvatron.

If you're wondering why I didn't list Earth Mode um, it's because it wasn’t a complete new mold, being a retool of Siege um

BW Megatron all day long. It's a great toy, but as I've said from the outset, celebrating superfluous Anniversaries without much forethought has got Generations in a mess (in terms of focus on branding, not the toys themselves). The WFC Trilogy should have ended strictly with the original series. 2022 could have been ALL BW, and I think that would have been Awesome. Also, I have this odd relationship with TF:TM. I've seen it hundreds of times, I love the film. But even I recognize it's anniversary doesn't need to be celebrated every 5 years, especially at this point in time.

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:I think some collectors have trouble understanding that the average parent is already going to shy away from a $50 toy. For an average, middle-class parent, an $85 toy is most likely only happening for a birthday or Christmas, rather than on a random weekend trip to Target

What makes you think this toy is intended for young children and not adult collectors?

According to the rules of retail, if a toy is sold at Brick and Mortar retail, in the toy aisle, and NOT behind the electronics section, it is made for children. Is that entirely true? No, but it does make sense, imagine Hasbro trying to sell the Generations line to Target and telling them it's predominately marketed towards adults.

ZeroWolf wrote:

TF-fan kev777 wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

TF-fan kev777 wrote: I would estimate that the main bot would fill out the leader class price point all on its own. It is a really nice figure and well done. Nicer than I really needed, which is where my disappointment comes in.

I'm not sure I follow

I would have been fine with a simpler figure and basic trailer more like ER OP than the extra details and fancier trailer. Especially when those items are what pushed RP out of Leader class and into commander. It is more the taking away a commander slot, for the what 5th iteration of some form of Hot Rod/Rodimus since Combiner Wars, than the execution of commander RP that bugs me. Don't get me wrong, the execution has some flaws, but losing a chance for a bigger bot is what my main issue is.

Which of these would you have lost then in order to have had leader class Rodimus:
Beast Wars Megs or Galvatron.

If you're wondering why I didn't list Earth Mode um, it's because it wasn’t a complete new mold, being a retool of Siege um

None of the above, I would rearrange the order of Leaders for SS86 and push Slag back from where he was and put Galvatron there. Slag would be in the next SS leader wave instead. I didn't push Grindor back for the same reason you excluded UM, retool, easy money, ain't going nowhere despite the current brand team hating bayverse.

Really it is the precedent of taking up a very limited size class for a figure that can be done reasonably well at a smaller class. The figure is great, and if the trailer worked as intended I would even agree that it is likely worth the price point. To me, it just isn't worth the limited slot it is taking up. I will actually likely feel the same about Motormaster next year.

TF-fan kev777 wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:

TF-fan kev777 wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

TF-fan kev777 wrote: I would estimate that the main bot would fill out the leader class price point all on its own. It is a really nice figure and well done. Nicer than I really needed, which is where my disappointment comes in.

I'm not sure I follow

I would have been fine with a simpler figure and basic trailer more like ER OP than the extra details and fancier trailer. Especially when those items are what pushed RP out of Leader class and into commander. It is more the taking away a commander slot, for the what 5th iteration of some form of Hot Rod/Rodimus since Combiner Wars, than the execution of commander RP that bugs me. Don't get me wrong, the execution has some flaws, but losing a chance for a bigger bot is what my main issue is.

Which of these would you have lost then in order to have had leader class Rodimus:
Beast Wars Megs or Galvatron.

If you're wondering why I didn't list Earth Mode um, it's because it wasn’t a complete new mold, being a retool of Siege um

None of the above, I would rearrange the order of Leaders for SS86 and push Slag back from where he was and put Galvatron there. Slag would be in the next SS leader wave instead. I didn't push Grindor back for the same reason you excluded UM, retool, easy money, ain't going nowhere despite the current brand team hating bayverse.

Really it is the precedent of taking up a very limited size class for a figure that can be done reasonably well at a smaller class. The figure is great, and if the trailer worked as intended I would even agree that it is likely worth the price point. To me, it just isn't worth the limited slot it is taking up. I will actually likely feel the same about Motormaster next year.

Good answer as I completely forgot about those leader class slots though Screamer will be the first non-dinobot leader for ss86.

chuckdawg1999 wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:I think some collectors have trouble understanding that the average parent is already going to shy away from a $50 toy. For an average, middle-class parent, an $85 toy is most likely only happening for a birthday or Christmas, rather than on a random weekend trip to Target

What makes you think this toy is intended for young children and not adult collectors?

According to the rules of retail, if a toy is sold at Brick and Mortar retail, in the toy aisle, and NOT behind the electronics section, it is made for children. Is that entirely true? No, but it does make sense, imagine Hasbro trying to sell the Generations line to Target and telling them it's predominately marketed towards adults.

I don't think that's "not entirely true," I don't think that's fundamentally true at all. Yes, there are toys sold in the "collectors" section on the back wall, but that's mostly by manufacturer. I fundamentally don't think this is a cut and dry issue when everything from investor reports to marketing trends show many of these products are intended for adults.

Lego is doing it overtly: like, the bonsai tree in a black box is not directed at children. Hasbro is doing it more gradually, but they are doing it

Re: Kingdom advertisements, for example, yes they are marketing the line to children, but that doesn't mean every product in the line is intended for them as the primary audience. After all, HasLab products are still in lines like The Vintage Collection, Marvel Legends, and War for Cybertron, but I doubt anyone would argue that they were released for kids to play with. That those brands are so easily extendable to adults should tell you something.

william-james88 wrote:What you are describing has the potential of a retailer nightmare. You cannot predict distribution so what you will 100% end up with are stores which have 20 trailers and no Rodimus. And vice versa. We are seeing this with the Mattel line where across north America you have places that have too much of the main hero figures and no vehicles or battle cars while in other places you have the opposite. My Walmarts have about 20-30 Battlecats each that have never moved and we never got He Man. This just creates shelfwarmers that the store will have to clear at liquidation prices, losing money. And possibly leading to less orders in the future.

No prediction necessary...
It's actually quite possible that Hastak produces cases where the figure and trailer are packed in equal numbers.

Other options that would help make this work:
-As long as they avoid making these store exclusive, it would be possible to order either part online (making it easier to get what you want).
-Just like BBTS sells two different figures of the same class together, if a company wanted to, they could list both together as the only option to purchase. This would be a good option for those who know they want both, and makes sure the company doesn't get stuck with either (if they're worried about it).
-Hastak could also repack the figure separately in the following wave.
Any "shelfwarming" trailers would possibly then be bought when more figures become available.

Also, if just one of the two items gets put on sale, that would be enticing enough to get some people to end up with both.
I'm betting there's a good number of people who would snag the trailer at $20-$25 after passing on the original $30 price tag. Sure, this cuts into the profit, but a sale still isn't a 100% loss.

I just have this strong gut feeling that if this would've been an option, more separate Rodimuses would've sold than you'd think. And I mean across the board-- with kids, casual fans, collectors, etc.
There's just a major difference in spending $55-ish compared to pushing $88-$90. Especially for a toy.
No matter how passionate you are about collecting anything, I think this is undisputable.
So again, instead of Hastak getting $53 from me (and others, and I know, Hastak doesn't get all of that money), they're getting ZERO.

A separate Rodimus means I don't end up with a huge chunk of plastic I never wanted, AND,
that saved $30-ish could be put towards Wreck-gar, or Sweeps, or any voyager, any deluxe, or a couple core class figures.
OR, just saved.
Maybe some of you spend x number of dollars on TF and don't ever think twice or look back.
But it's very myopic to think very many people share that collecting habit.

I know some still won't see this concept as a realistic option.
And it's all good. I don't even love Rodimus as a character, and don't feel that I'm missing out by passing on this release. My idea doesn't stem from frustration or bitterness.
Many of you are way more into collecting than me, and know way more about TF in general, so the main thing is that I appreciate the thoughts shared about all of this.

AcademyofDrX wrote:

chuckdawg1999 wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:I think some collectors have trouble understanding that the average parent is already going to shy away from a $50 toy. For an average, middle-class parent, an $85 toy is most likely only happening for a birthday or Christmas, rather than on a random weekend trip to Target

What makes you think this toy is intended for young children and not adult collectors?

According to the rules of retail, if a toy is sold at Brick and Mortar retail, in the toy aisle, and NOT behind the electronics section, it is made for children. Is that entirely true? No, but it does make sense, imagine Hasbro trying to sell the Generations line to Target and telling them it's predominately marketed towards adults.

I don't think that's "not entirely true," I don't think that's fundamentally true at all. Yes, there are toys sold in the "collectors" section on the back wall, but that's mostly by manufacturer. I fundamentally don't think this is a cut and dry issue when everything from investor reports to marketing trends show many of these products are intended for adults.

Lego is doing it overtly: like, the bonsai tree in a black box is not directed at children. Hasbro is doing it more gradually, but they are doing it

Re: Kingdom advertisements, for example, yes they are marketing the line to children, but that doesn't mean every product in the line is intended for them as the primary audience. After all, HasLab products are still in lines like The Vintage Collection, Marvel Legends, and War for Cybertron, but I doubt anyone would argue that they were released for kids to play with. That those brands are so easily extendable to adults should tell you something.

Ok so not cut and dry then. Most toys in Kingdom (from core to leader) would be made with kids in mind while the higher ticket items would be more for collectors. Is that what you are saying?
I don't get the bit about the investor reports though. The Transformers brand is always reported under the boys toys umbrella, with Beyblade. I haven't seen them mention them as collectibles or collectors items. If you have, please post the quote from the investor report, I'm curious.

I haven't seen anything so explicit as mentioning "adult collectors" specifically, and the demographic language is not going to be compelling in itself, as it's almost boilerplate. For example, their most recent deck describes their franchise brand portfolio this way: "Global brands targeting diverse
demographics and play patterns." "Diverse" is very broad here, across basic marketing segments like gender and age even within just children, but contextually, I read it expansively to include adults as well. But if you go back to, say, 2014, Hasbro talks about how their different product lines are directed at different age groups. This isn't just about 2-4 or 6-8. I distinctly remember reading that across brands, adults buying for themselves were up to 30% of purchases, but I can't place it specifically.

One of the reasons why I keep emphasizing Lego and other manufacturers is because these consumer and marketing trends aren't specific to Hasbro or action figure lines. One of the ways it gets tricky, though, is that in the current market there's an incredibly wide range of merchandise that is all called "toys." But I encourage fans to see that as further justification to lose the child-centric mindset. Even though Funko Pops and ReAction figures are sold in a different part of the store, that doesn't necessarily mean that there's a rigid division in how retail institutional buyers make plans, or how retailers market. Think of Walmart's collectors con or Target's collectors corner: they're explicitly appealing to adults and older kids, but the offered products include the full range of the types of toys we're talking about here.

I also think that taking the broader view, or looking at other lines, makes it easier to accept the implications for this fandom. Here's a specific Hasbro example: how many GI Joe Classified Major Bludds made it into the hands of kids? I think that product line is an obvious example of a collector-first product that kids are welcome to buy but that isn't designed for them. That framing is meaningful: if that's true, then the product launch and availability challenges are fundamentally different than if it's "supposed" to be for kids.

I'm also not trying to create an either/or, this isn't a hobby where kids and adults should be competing. But I think it's very out of date to think that adult hobbyists are interlopers or illegitimate when it's increasingly clear that we're considered--at times, prioritized [/I--at every stage of the product lifecycle, from conception to design to manufacturing to marketing to distribution. Why is Generations so G1 heavy historically if your primary audience is just discovering the characters? Why is screen accuracy to a 35-year old cartoon you can only watch on [I]Tubi a priority over play features? Why are there fan-channel exclusives and livestreams and direct-to-consumer marketplaces? It's not just about us, but it's not not about us either.

No one would EVER write "for adult collectors" on the box of a product unless it's a PORN thing. The most is to set a minimum age like Hasbro, Takara, and all 3P companies do.

To be honest I'm not sure what we're even arguing about here.

What initiated the rant was, and I'm paraphrasing, "Hasbro messed up with Rodimus because they can't sell him to kids." There's an implicit framing that I see all the time, and that people treat as self-evident: Transformers Generations are toys for children that adults can buy too. I'm saying that's backwards. Adults are a target market for toys, and everything about the Generations toyline in particular backs that up:

These toys are made for adults, but kids can buy them too.

Adult toys collectors. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Try to guess why no toys are ever labelled this way.