The Energon Pub

News Credits: 34 · Wed Aug 06, 2025 7:05 pm

[EDIT - Split out weapon balancing discussion so as not to gum up the bug reporting thread]

Confirmed I can do weapon quantities, added small stock of a few sold-out ones as a test. I'll definitely be going through the list and making some charts...

(I'll be at TFNation this weekend so won't have much time, but will very much be going through the admin panel to catalogue working/broken/needed functions as soon as I can.)

Wed Aug 06, 2025 8:12 pm

You need weapon charts?
I'd have to find my old files but I may be able to save you some work on that front

Thu Aug 07, 2025 11:55 am

Bun-Bun wrote:You need weapon charts?
I'd have to find my old files but I may be able to save you some work on that front

What happened to your thread that had all your testing results in?

Edit: Could have sworn it was a general thread and not a Faction locked thread bun-buns-lab-autobot-edition-t112025.php

Thu Aug 07, 2025 12:21 pm

tag-team-results-thread-an-extension-of-bun-buns-laboratory-t111139.php

I think that's part of what you're looking for.
I've had multiple threads over the years but I believe this one has links to the others.
But I'd give Glyph the good stuff that I didn't report (if any, honestly it's been so long I've forgotten nearly all of this stuff)

News Credits: 34 · Mon Aug 11, 2025 12:55 pm

Bun-Bun wrote:You need weapon charts?
I'd have to find my old files but I may be able to save you some work on that front

Thanks Bun-Bun, I'll take any data people want to throw at me

I have all the weapon stats as they currently exist (with real min/max damage stats, not just the bands shown in the shop) and am graphing rough power against cost (XP and En). If you've already got stuff like that from the previous balance pass, I'd love to take a look.

News Credits: 34 · Mon Aug 11, 2025 1:13 pm

weapon_mods.png

This, of course, is the big issue with weapons balancing - the effect of user's STR / target's END is huge, to the point that it overwhelms the real differences between the weapons. And also, affecting the real damage output when it comes to figuring out what something should cost.
(I'm eliding for the moment that cost is functionally irrelevant for high-level players, while low-levellers struggle to get anything decent and get instantly vapourised if they run into a high-leveller.)

To take the Fusion Cannon as an example: its listed damage output is 30-71 like most 10/10 weapons, but because it has a minimum user STR of 10 that's actually a raw damage output of 60-142. If you balance it for the listed 30-71 range, it'll way outperform that. (And of course, that drops back to 30-71 against your peers' END 10, but rockets to 90-213 against an unfortunate END 0 in a giantslayer situation - how do you balance a range like that?)
Uhhh.... just ignore everything I said there, because it was dumb.
Except for the huge STR bonus making balancing complicated in general.

News Credits: 42 · Tue Aug 12, 2025 4:54 am

TIL that the stats required to wield the weapon affected it's damage.

No wonder balancing it all was such a nightmare.

News Credits: 34 · Tue Aug 12, 2025 5:38 am

Well, more that user STR always adds +10% damage per point, and since you can't use a fusion cannon unless you have STR 10, that's always going to mean +100% damage with that weapon (because you have STR 10). So yeah, increasing the STR requirement for balance also makes the weapon more powerful as a side effect. It's the rocket fuel equation but for guns! 8-}

Yeah, if you're using a fusion cannon you've probably got STR 10 anyway, but it's not a requirement... #-o

And this is before target END + armour!

News Credits: 42 · Tue Aug 12, 2025 7:30 am

I'm assuming that makes skill an unnecessary additional expense just used to make weapons more complicated to purchase?
>:oP

News Credits: 34 · Tue Aug 12, 2025 8:15 am

Psychout wrote:I'm assuming that makes skill an unnecessary additional expense just used to make weapons more complicated to purchase?

Honestly, yeah - AFAIK it doesn't affect any actions directly at the moment, just functions as a required stat for weapons & tactics. STR is just an odd one for simultaneously restricting and boosting the weapons, so needs to be taken into account (personally I like the general idea that STR should only affect melee damage, while ranged weapon damage is fixed to the weapon itself).

Tue Aug 12, 2025 8:19 am

Str isn’t a req for weapons. Firepower and skill are

News Credits: 34 · Tue Aug 12, 2025 8:34 am

...

... wtf am I smoking?

You're right of course. Dunno where my head's at. Blame work and lack of sleep

I swear I do understand how the game works, honest boss.

Tue Aug 12, 2025 2:44 pm

Glyph wrote:...

... wtf am I smoking?

You're right of course. Dunno where my head's at. Blame work and lack of sleep

I swear I do understand how the game works, honest boss.

Probably smoked too much of the (largely useless) intelligence stat.