The Energon Pub

News Credits: 226 · Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:31 pm

I've learnt to only read the first paragraph of your posts.

Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:34 pm

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Bastard.

Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:19 am

Burn wrote:
Tammuz wrote:basically burn, a 10/10 weapon with max str, against no end and no armour OHKs,

And I honestly don't see a problem with a level 9-11 being able to wipe out a level 0-1 in one move.

indeed

News Credits: 7 · Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:42 pm

I think I'll leave negative feedback for the guy who sold me this Fusion Cannon if it keeps doing 2% damage (00:58)

News Credits: 6 · Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:03 pm

Chaoslock wrote:I think I'll leave negative feedback for the guy who sold me this Fusion Cannon if it keeps doing 2% damage (00:58)

You're going to need to put more muscle behind that gun if you want to beat Road Ranger's armor.

That or sacrifice more virgins to the RNG.

Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:06 pm

Wait, doesn't the Fusion Canon require a 10/10? Why'd it get nerfed? If anything deserves an "incredible" rating, it's a 10/10 weapon.

Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:21 pm

you really need to start paying attention Whinertron;

Caelus at the top of the last page wrote wrote:Tammuz established the Median Damage for every FP/SKL combo, and then I changed all of the weapons to have their appropriate Median Damages.

The Damage Range can vary greatly from weapon to weapon (with cannons tending to have the largest spread and rifles the smallest), but the Median Damage of any two weapons with the same requirements is always the same.

Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:46 pm

Me and my big mouth. :oops:

Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:42 am

Tammuz wrote:Page 1 of Tammuz's guide to how to kill, maim, slaughter, cripple, and Destroy

Why can't we have something like that in the main forum?

Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:03 am

Dragonoth wrote:
Tammuz wrote:Page 1 of Tammuz's guide to how to kill, maim, slaughter, cripple, and Destroy

Why can't we have something like that in the main forum?

Why should the con's do all the research and just hand it over to the bots? Bots can go do their own research.

Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:51 am

Shadow Dragon wrote:
Dragonoth wrote:
Tammuz wrote:Page 1 of Tammuz's guide to how to kill, maim, slaughter, cripple, and Destroy

Why can't we have something like that in the main forum?

Why should the con's do all the research and just hand it over to the bots? Bots can go do their own research.

I don't have the code. How a I supposed to know if skill or firepower boosts damage? I can only calculate relative damage based on the descriptions of the weapons and determine optimal upgrade level.

I make databases to collect info in my spare time, but I have a lack of input in this case.

Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:14 am

Our data didn't come from the code either. It came from reading many many many battle logs and tracking the data.

Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:19 pm

I actually take great offense at the implication that i'm leaking stuff the cons.

i take even greater offense that my knowledge of the game comes from looking at the code rather than reverse engineering from battle logs.

screw you autobots.

News Credits: 6 · Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:57 pm

Hell, you had all of that worked out long before you even got in the 'support staff'.

News Credits: 1 · Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:09 pm

I'm still convinced that Tam has used to job to engineer special maths-skills-bacteria that'll do the **** for him.

Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:55 pm

Tammuz wrote:I actually take great offense at the implication that i'm leaking stuff the cons.

i take even greater offense that my knowledge of the game comes from looking at the code rather than reverse engineering from battle logs.

screw you autobots.

Sorry. I forgot the hard work you did.

News Credits: 226 · Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:01 pm

Dragonoth wrote: Sorry. I forgot the hard work you did.

Yeah ... those without official titles always seem to be forgotten.

Maybe some day Tammuz will be recognised for what he's done for this game.

Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:19 pm

I remember Tammuz saying that he did have to go through countless battles to glean the data. I'm just too lazy to do anything more than analyze the information at hand. I want to help with the weapons update, but my analysis of the weapons by stat level is probably unneeded, as Caelus can surely see where the gaps are. Anyway, I'll continue to be a low-level Autobot and fight periodically.

News Credits: 6 · Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:30 pm

Dragonoth wrote:Caelus can surely see where the gaps are.

Of course... since Tammuz gave me a list of what's missing. :lol:

Little secret, the list I see in the Admin panel is in alphabetical order, rather than ordered by stats as they are on the Buy/Sell page. That makes it tricky to fill gaps without flipping between the admin panel and the weapons page.

Fortunately, Tammuz did the tedious job of writing down what stat-combos are missing. Now I get the tedious job of adding the weapons one at a time...[/whining]

I wish we could axe some of the redundant weaponry though.

Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:18 am

Jeep! wrote:I'm still convinced that Tam has used to job to engineer special maths-skills-bacteria that'll do the number-**** for him.

it's called Bun-bun, and anyone who saw his mega spreadsheet knows his excel skills way out shine mine

as for axing redundant weapons, couldn't you create a weapon with a quantity of 1 and a gibereish name "asiopfdnbv'[o gun" then buy and axe it to see what happens?

as for redundant weapons i'd shift them down the star requirments somewhere if you can, since theirs 121 possible stat permutations to fill, muliplied by the number of possible recharges, multiplied by the number of possible damage ranges so for a totally comprehensive weapons list we're looking in excess of 52000 weapons without duplicates.

News Credits: 42 · Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:24 am

Simplify it then.
Break the weapons up into generic classes/types; pistols, rifles, shotguns, cannons, swords, maces, explosives, severed limbs, etc. and then have each fp/sk increase allow access to an 'upgrade' as a improved vaiant of the last, adding to to the recharge/damage/stat req's depending on its type and how hard it would be to weild.

This way those who want their minion to be a gladiator can add to their minions by buying whatever variant of sword fits their stats?

Crude example...
fp0,sk1 Sword 'Meat Cleaver'
fp0,sk2 Sword 'Machette'
...
fp3,sk3 Sword 'Energy dagger'
fp3,sk8 Sword 'Energy great Sword'
...
fp7,sk7 Sword 'Twin energon scimitars'
fp7,sk10 sword 'Twin lightsabers*'
etc etc etc....
*example used for lack of a better name.

Do the sdame for the other sets and then its just a case of renaming the lists in order, applying canon references where appliciable, and may make it easdier to organise them.
May also help for the players who like to stick to a ranged/melee 'theme' too.

Just thoughts.

Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:09 am

That would be interesting, weapon chains. I vote for that for V2 or a V1 major upgrade.

A way to revise the existing system is to see what is available by single stat. For example, there are currently (as of last weekend) three weapons that require fpr 8, regardless of skill. All three of them happen to be melee weapons, so adding fpr 8 guns at various levels of skill would balance fpr 8.

You could quick-check combination levels by totaing the stats. There were no weapons that required 14 to 19 points of combined fpr and skill, except some at 17 points.

All in all, it sounds like great fun if you like that sort of thing. Thanks for updating the weapons, Caelus!

News Credits: 6 · Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:33 pm

I was actually working on a naming-scheme for weapons for v2 that was similar to what Psych suggested.

Essentially, each 'level' (ambiguous term there - remember I didn't finish this little side-line) would have several basic weapon types available, each distinguished by damage range and recharge:

pistol - Moderate Damage Range, Short Recharge
rifle - Minimal Damage Range, Moderate Recharge
cannon - Maximum Damage Range, Long Recharge
sword - Moderate Damage Range, Short Recharge
melee-other - Wildcard
ranged-other - Wildcard

So the collection of 'level 1' weapons might look like:

Pistol
Rifle
Cannon
Sword
Mace
Slingshot

And the 'level 2' weapons:

Laser Pistol
Laser Rifle
Laser Cannon
Laser Sword
Armor Axe
Firestone Sling

The 'level 8' Weapons:

Particle Beam Pistol
Particle Beam Rifle
Particle Beam Cannon
Energo Sword
Energon Axe
Laser-Guided Missile Launcher

The 'Level 11' Weapons:

????? Pistol
Ion Rifle
Fusion Cannon
Star Saber
Energized Battle Blades
Nuclear Missile Launcher

You get the idea. It's pretty vague of course because I never finished it - it would require a total reset, when I'd be free to rename all the weapons as I see fit, to do.

Mostly, I had this sort of OCD desire to establish a 'tech tree' where plain<laser<energon etc., and also make most of the weapon archetypes playable at any point in the game. Additionally, the weapon archetypes would be functionally different - the Cannons, having the lowest 'accuracy' and highest potential damage, would always have a damage range from 1 to Max. The rifles, being the most accurate, would always have a damage range of Med-1 to Med+1. Pistols and swords would range between those extremes and have the shortest recharges, and the other two categories would effectively be a surprise in every box.

Maybe it was a silly idea though...

Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:20 pm

I like that idea Caelus

Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:57 pm

that's great I'd love a tech tree, and i'm all for systematic taxonomy(i'm a microbiologist by enducation)

but look at this way

say we have 5 types of weapons

we have 121 stat combinations

say 3 recharges

5 damage ranges

that's 9075 individual weapons...... and a systemwide reset.