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News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:47 am

Sabrblade wrote:Oh, I love Beast Machines. It's up there in my top 5 series just beneath Beast Wars, Rescue Bots, Animated, Masterforce, and tied with RiD 2001/Car Robots.

My post in this other thread should speak volumes of how much I'm into Beast Machines.

I couldn’t get in to rescue bots and while I enjoy mass the floors it’s really not up there for me though that make me simply because there’s no real official English representation

On the other hand machines was tied for number one with wars for me ,For quite some time and animated and RID 2001 a pretty high ranking for me as well

News Credits: 438 · by **Sabrblade** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:36 pm

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:Oh, I love Beast Machines. It's up there in my top 5 series just beneath Beast Wars, Rescue Bots, Animated, Masterforce, and tied with RiD 2001/Car Robots.

My post in this other thread should speak volumes of how much I'm into Beast Machines.

I couldn’t get in to rescue bots and while I enjoy mass the floors it’s really not up there for me though that make me simply because there’s no real official English representation

So? Why would it need to be in English? It stands tall in its own language, and without needing to fit into the American continuity.

Though, the old Malaysian English dub was technically official for its market, but... yeah, no need to look at that.

News Credits: 1350 · by **ZeroWolf** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:57 pm

That Malaysian dub is offensive to my ears, a channel in the UK (Anime Central- a short lived channel) aired all three Malaysian dubs for the takara shows. Ginrai became optimus prime...I don't mean he transformed into prime, but they changed every instance of his name to optimus prime. It was crazy.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:31 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:Oh, I love Beast Machines. It's up there in my top 5 series just beneath Beast Wars, Rescue Bots, Animated, Masterforce, and tied with RiD 2001/Car Robots.

My post in this other thread should speak volumes of how much I'm into Beast Machines.

I couldn’t get in to rescue bots and while I enjoy mass the floors it’s really not up there for me though that make me simply because there’s no real official English representation
So? Why would it need to be in English? It stands tall in its own language, and without needing to fit into the American continuity.

Though, the old Malaysian English dub was technically official for its market, but... yeah, no need to look at that.

I’m not saying it needed to be in English for everybody to enjoy just speaking for myself

And for the record I had a friend who brought them over to me from Japan back in the 80s and I used to love watching the animation a little but they weren’t translated at the time so I was just watching them for the art itself

Maybe I should buy a shout DVD release see if I can get behind the subs

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:32 pm

ZeroWolf wrote:That Malaysian dub is offensive to my ears, a channel in the UK (Anime Central- a short lived channel) aired all three Malaysian dubs for the takara shows. Ginrai became optimus prime...I don't mean he transformed into prime, but they changed every instance of his name to optimus prime. It was crazy.

Very offensive

News Credits: 438 · by **Sabrblade** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:41 pm

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Maybe I should buy a shout DVD release see if I can get behind the subs

Much like the bad English dub from Malaysia, the Shout! Factory DVDs used a lot of the Hasbro character names for the Japanese characters in their subtitles, including some of the human "-master" characters. They also changed a few things like renaming Chokon Power into different types of energon, which makes no sense since it isn't energon.

I myself watched the series online using the TV-Nihon fansubs and found those to be serviceable for me. But if you can instead find either the UK DVD set from Metrodome or the Australian DVD set from Madman, those would be preferable to Shout!'s inaccurately-subtitled DVD release.

News Credits: 1350 · by **ZeroWolf** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:50 pm

I can vouch for the metrodome release, the subs are really good and they did their best to keep the names as originally intended (though for victory they call the main antagonist Dezsaras while hasbro have gone with deathsarus)

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:50 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Maybe I should buy a shout DVD release see if I can get behind the subs
Much like the bad English dub from Malaysia, the Shout! Factory DVDs used a lot of the Hasbro character names for the Japanese characters in their subtitles, including some of the human "-master" characters. They also changed a few things like renaming Chokon Power into different types of energon, which makes no sense since it isn't energon.

I myself watched the series online using the TV-Nihon fansubs and found those to be serviceable for me. But if you can instead find either the UK DVD set from Metrodome or the Australian DVD set from Madman, those would be preferable to Shout!'s inaccurately-subtitled DVD release.

Are those sets region free?

News Credits: 438 · by **Sabrblade** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:55 pm

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Maybe I should buy a shout DVD release see if I can get behind the subs
Much like the bad English dub from Malaysia, the Shout! Factory DVDs used a lot of the Hasbro character names for the Japanese characters in their subtitles, including some of the human "-master" characters. They also changed a few things like renaming Chokon Power into different types of energon, which makes no sense since it isn't energon.

I myself watched the series online using the TV-Nihon fansubs and found those to be serviceable for me. But if you can instead find either the UK DVD set from Metrodome or the Australian DVD set from Madman, those would be preferable to Shout!'s inaccurately-subtitled DVD release.

Are those sets region free?

Unfortunately, no, for both Masterforce sets.

However, I own the UK DVD set of all three series and was able to watch them on my computer with ease. Though, the UK set of The Headmasters is Region 0, so I could watch it on certain DVD players but not on others.

As for the TV-Nihon subbed version of Masterforce, you can find all episodes of that to watch online here. Though, note that the one at the bottom of the list, "Big Book of Masterforce" (and which none of the DVD sets have), should be watched at the end of the series, rather than where it's placed before Episode 1 on that list.

News Credits: 1350 · by **ZeroWolf** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:21 pm

Ah is that the episode which included the information about the transector which ginrai obtained and why it looked like prime? I was a little bit annoyed that the episode wasn't included but not enough to dampen my love for masterforce

News Credits: 438 · by **Sabrblade** » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:34 pm

ZeroWolf wrote:Ah is that the episode which included the information about the transector which ginrai obtained and why it looked like prime? I was a little bit annoyed that the episode wasn't included but not enough to dampen my love for masterforce

Yes. That, and more.

Also, "Transtector"

News Credits: 1350 · by **ZeroWolf** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:38 am

I always forget that t in the middle :-?

News Credits: 438 · by **Sabrblade** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:03 am

To back up to the original inquiry of this thread, like DanielAdkins said on the first page, this is pretty much what happens if BW Megatron succeeds in killing Optimus Prime (with Blackarachnia likewise disabling G1 Megatron with her venom):

News Credits: 6 · by **AllNewSuperRobot** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:14 am

The Transtector concept was interesting but a really odd thing to add to TF lore. As it's more of an idea you'd see in Gundam or some such.

So I must admit I did have to purchase Beast Machines on DVD, as it didn't really seem to be shown on TV with any consistency. I did also sell said Boxset after I finished it. A case of I'd seen it and would never choose to again.

There were things I did really enjoy about it.

Megatron's entire arc was excellent, even the strange Noble/Savage part (which you may notice I did pay homage to in my own writing). In an understated way, they really played up how holding the Spark of G1 Megatron had seriously corrupted him on a fundamental level. Something Beast Wars never even hinted at.

I liked the overall serialised nature of the show. No throwaway episodes or filler. Also generally no naff "humour" episodes either, such as 'The Low Road' or 'Master Blaster'.

The concept of the Vehicons and drone armies was very interesting, their toys were also a highlight for Transformers as a whole at the time.

The weak link then? The part that turned me off the show: The Maximals. I'm struggling to find any part to them that wasn't severely downgraded from Beast Wars. Characterisation, motives, attitude, Ugly as Sin designs!
Botanica was probably the most interesting among them and just as quickly as her introduction, the potential of 'Plant-Bots' has been all but forgotten within TF Lore.
Then you had Nightscream, possibly the worst character in all of Beast Wars. No real explanation needed.
I just don't know what they were going for with the complete 're-adjustment' of the Maximals themselves, but I don't think it worked on any level.

In summary, if you removed the Maximals, I really liked Beast Machines

News Credits: 438 · by **Sabrblade** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:24 am

I loved Cheetor's character growth in the show. How he'd been thrust into a more leadership position and challenging Optimus's more questionable decisions. He had come a long way from his more childlike Beast Wars days and eventually became Primal's successor in connecting to the Oracle, which I liked how both 3H and Fun Pub further capitalized on this by both of them first making him a Matrix Templar and then, years later, Fun Pub's making his Wings Universe incarnation eventually follow in the footsteps of Alpha Trion by becoming the future Cybertron's spiritual leader and guide, Alpha Trizer.

News Credits: 6 · by **AllNewSuperRobot** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:29 am

I did give Cheetor a pass within the show (but still not looking at his anorexic Beast Mode for too long though :SICK:

)as he did have more natural character growth than the TM to TM2 "mood shift".

What happened to Rattrap though? Who thought it a good idea to depict him as such. Primal too. From level headed and decisive commander to irrational zealot??

News Credits: 438 · by **Sabrblade** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:46 am

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Primal too. From level headed and decisive commander to irrational zealot??

That was one episode. One. The Season 1 finale. He wasn't like that in any other episode of the show.

And it was to show how wrong he was in that episode, so that he could come to learn the truth of his mission, rather than the misinterpreted conclusion he had come to in that episode (thanks in part to Tankor-Rhinox's feeding him a false vision from the Oracle to steer Primal in that self-destructive direction that he took in that episode).

News Credits: 6 · by **AllNewSuperRobot** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:06 am

The thing is, in Beast Wars Primal was fallible. His naivete would often lead him astray (or dead, occasionally) but you couldn't call him a fool. BM Primal makes a lot of uncharacteristic leaps in logic and often tossed common sense out of the window. Yes the worst instances of this was predominantly regarding The Oracle, but it wasn't isolated behaviour. The one time he actually acted inline with the characterisation established BW was in the final confrontation with Megatron... After two seasons of meandering.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:38 pm

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Megatron's entire arc was excellent, even the strange Noble/Savage part (which you may notice I did pay homage to in my own writing). In an understated way, they really played up how holding the Spark of G1 Megatron had seriously corrupted him on a fundamental level. Something Beast Wars never even hinted at

Can I ask you to elaborate on that bolded section

News Credits: 6 · by **AllNewSuperRobot** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:41 pm

One major telltale sign was his sudden complete hatred of Organic Life. A staple of G1 Megatron's character and something previously entirely absent from BW Megatron's.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:53 pm

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:One major telltale sign was his sudden complete hatred of Organic Life. A staple of G1 Megatron's character and something previously entirely absent from BW Megatron's.

Yeah that’s been pretty much my theory as well I just don’t think the Show did a good job of depicting that

Also I don’t think It’s completely accurate to say hatred of humans was a “staple” of G1 Megatrons character, Sure enough he had no love for humans but I don’t think they registered enough for him to say he had a complete hatred for them

News Credits: 6 · by **AllNewSuperRobot** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:05 pm

No, they never explicitly stated it, I think it came down more to our interpretation than any meaningful dialogue on their part.

Yeah, perhaps disdain is a more apt word for G1 Megatron than hatred.

I don't think it just came down towards Humans alone with G1 Megs either, I think he acted with disdain to all non-mechanical life. That disdain escalated the more humans and others took to the side of the Autobots.

News Credits: 438 · by **Sabrblade** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:32 pm

Just goes to show how different Megatron and Cy-Kill were. Megs thought of humans only as weaklings to be trampled upon, whereas Cy-Kill saw resourceful value in humanity as able-bodied slave labor and rule-enforcement numbers.

News Credits: 6 · by **AllNewSuperRobot** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:35 pm

Sabrblade wrote:Just goes to show how different Megatron and Cy-Kill were. Megs thought of humans only as weaklings to be exploited, whereas Cy-Kill saw resourceful value in humanity as able-bodied slave labor and rule-enforcement numbers.

People might mock it and some G1 fans I've talked to may really dislike it, but I think Go-Bots could really work with a Modern revamp. It's a shame it's stuck in Rights Limbo, perhaps forever...

News Credits: 438 · by **Sabrblade** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:50 pm

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:Just goes to show how different Megatron and Cy-Kill were. Megs thought of humans only as weaklings to be exploited, whereas Cy-Kill saw resourceful value in humanity as able-bodied slave labor and rule-enforcement numbers.

People might mock it and some G1 fans I've talked to may really dislike it, but I think Go-Bots could really work with a Modern revamp. It's a shame it's stuck in Rights Limbo, perhaps forever...

"Rights limbo" is putting it mildly.

It's more a case of the rights being split across three different companies: Hasbro owns the IP via their acquisition of Tonka, Warner Bros owns the cartoon and its imagery/likenesses via its acquisition of Hanna-Barbera, and Bandai owns the original Machine Robo toys that were created by their subsidiary Popy.

The fact that Hasbro and Bandai are rival companies doesn't help matters either. As it stands, Hasbro could very well make new toys based on the original GoBots from the 80s, but they won't since that would be free advertisement to a rival company's property. Anytime Hasbro tries to do something with the GoBots IP they own, it ends up being more like "GoBots in name only" like the Playskool line from the mid-2000s, or the naming of Armada Megatron's Mini-Con as "Leader-1", since that's the most viable option for Hasbro as a toy company.

A case like Movie Fracture homaging Crasher was an iffy one since it was former Hasbro designer Joe Kyde who pushed for that toy's being made by having to convince Hasbro that Fracture's deco was based instead on the color scheme a real life F-1 racer, but the deco of the robot mode head and face was still very clearly based on that of Crasher, placing the whole situation with that figure in a rather gray area that Hasbro wasn't so comfortable with. Basically, they let it happen "that one time", but nothing else as close as Fracture has happened since. ROTF Deadlift is kind of a similar case, but not as severe since he was just an orange forklift with "MR-34" tampo'd onto him, rather than having anything as overtly lifted from Spoons applied to his deco since, while we know what "MR-34" means, it's generic enough letters and numbers to not be so inherently tied to Spoons as to potentially cross into any legally-uncomfortable boundaries.