Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Sorry to pull the 'Noob' card again, folks, but I would really appreciate any insight into this. I'd gotten into Animated retroactively so to speak, and while I thought some elements were reeeeeally pushing it, it was a great series, especially the latter half. Why exactly did this not succeed??
I've been looking around for info on this, but haven't come up with anything concrete.

Because Cartoon Network is a piece of crap who didnt want to work with Hasbro anymore. Thats why they're making their own channel.

Actually I think it was Hasbro is making their own channel, so they decided not to renew with Cartoon network. Probably would've happened even if TF:A was pulling in top ratings each and every week.

So, are you guys saying that it was a combination of studio politics and ratings?

I used to work in the Animation Industry, so hearing that politics were involved isn't surprising. Ratings-wise...
I wonder if the lateness of the toys were a factor in that...or perhaps the over-reliance on human characters?

As somebody who has not yet sat down to watch Animated, but plans to before honestly judging, I can provide the following initial impressions:

The toys are sometimes difficult to want when available in another line, tho the toys are pretty streamlined, Transform nicely and up until some very recent releases (drift, etc.) crammed a lot of Bot into the AltMode, which I am impressed by.Some of the new weapons such as Blackarachnias' grappler and Jazz's Nunchaku rock!

The reviews I've read drop my spirits a bit regarding storywise intellect, but raise my spirits regarding intellect within character attitude; That is: Story intellect-I was disappointed to learn that a Processor over matter is used as Fill D Gap between tech and its' explanation (tho it works just fine) when the original bots had Acid pellet guns, magnetic smoke dispensers, Hologram throwers, multi-phase light beamers and all sorts of stuff they had to think about in order to create.
Attitude intellect- I watched the commercials on MonkeyBar TV, one stands out in memory with some little kids questioning Optimus and grating on his nerves.From that alone it looks like this is a very enjoyable Cartoon show!

Without knowing anything about the humans except examples of names (I don't yet know which name goes with which face) they seem decisively crazy and non-serious, kinda Stop-that-Pidgeon meets Waynes' world meets Dexters' Laboratoty.

It really does look like Hasbro is making moves to become the next Walt Disney Enterprise.It's unlikely anything was wrong enough with TF:A to cancel it for any other reason than Privatization as far as I can gather.

The only other explanation is that some things are being shut down since the new film and the Prime series will take over.Some stuff in the new film might overwrite the direction animated was about to tread.

Notice how the Rotf Sideswipe toy didn't get a redo as a Sunstreaker version (yet)?:
That's what I mean- there's a reason.

Rodimus The Prime, what did you used to do in the animation biz? Commericals or shows?

As for TF:A being canceled, yeah it was studio politics that resulted in Hasbro making their own channel. I guess they didn't want to pay for the additional overhead.

I think I heard Hasbro mention the fact that they only wanted to do three seasons a show, since their target market would've gone on to other things after three years. It was the same for the Unicron Trilogy (Armada/Energon/Cybertron). So according to their logic it would make harder for the new fans to jump into the show, while the old ones were leaving. Meanwhile the rumors about TF:Prime says it is supposed to last 7 seasons.

As for the show itself, I'd say it's worth the look for at least season 1. Don't get me wrong, the rest of the show is worth it, but it takes time to set up a universe for a show. The Decepticons were actually tough to beat. The show's versions of Starscream and Megatron rank among the most competent versions of them, despite it being aimed at a young audience. Also, my favorite reason: Optimus starts off as a nobody. It great change of pace for the concept of Optimus Prime. Also, the story telling is way above Bay's level, profoundly so. Finally, the show creators really did their research with the whole franchise so it is jammed pack with references.

I worked on TV shows, actually. I did Story Boards, Lip-syncing, but mostly Character design. I did certainly see my share of politics though; shows that would get sabotaged because so-and-so on the Producing side didn't want to push it, or promising shows that would end up in limbo because of disagreements or non-interest or some silly reason. So, yeah, I'm not in the least bit surprised to hear that politics was a factor here. Pity too, because a season 4 would have been awesome!

I feel you on what you're saying about Animated. I'd just recently finished watching season 3. While the first season was a bit rocky in places (well, just with those human villains), I really loved the new take on the typical Universe. I loved the Decepticons as hulking brutes that the Autobots were generally hard-pressed to fight. I especially liked the notion of making Optimus a lower Captain, with Prime as a rank, and Ultra Magnus as the Military leader. Just added a new dose of freshness to things. And as you noted, Megatron and Starscream haven't been that fun since TF:The Movie.
My only issue: not enough Rodimus Prime!

While Hasbro setting up their own network didn't help matters, I think some of it had to do with DVD sales (which is or was a good chunk of show's revenue), and that Transformers: Animated a series created by Cartoon Network Studios, was released on DVD by Paramount and not by CN Home Entertainment/Warner Home Video. IIRC on the commentary track in season 2 someone makes a remark by the lack of a lot special features on the DVDs because of this problem with CN/Hasbro/Paramount.

I know nothing for sure, but I can say that I remember pretty early on (like season 2) CN decided to replay it less and less and give it worse and worse air times. So if the ratings HAD gone down it was because they weren't giving it reasonable airtime. Instead, they promoted Ben 10 and other shows that they had more direct control over AND proprietary interest in.

The writers had actually apparently planned, I thought, for FOUR seasons, which is why season three is so uneven--you can see the plans they had almost in Team Chaar--new characters, a broader backdrop of the war, etc. And they heard they had to crop it down to three and....panic.

Season three hasn''t (yet?) been released on DVD which seems...fishy to me!

I can't help but think both sides hated each other and...fans of TFA are the only losers.

HK, trying to get enthused about the new cartoon.

Action cartoons rarely last beyond 3-4 seasons no matter how good they are perceived to be.

Was pat lee involved? If so, that explains it.

Seriously though, they should have made another season! i want Dirge and Thrust!

MYoung23 wrote:Action cartoons rarely last beyond 3-4 seasons no matter how good they are perceived to be.

To address the initial question, I don't know. Animateds' success or lack of is just like the movies: if you like it you are somehow in the class of the next evolution of human being, and are therefore able to comprehend things that mortals don't like, and if you don't like it, you're only disliking it becuase it's popular to do so, and you feel that great a need for popularity that you bandwagon shows and movies just ot fit it. I didn't care for Animated, but it's always a shame when a cartoon gets the ax.

I'm just reading through for a couple of minutes and wanted to tag along with this idea here.
For some reason, there was this idea floating around that Prime was going to be/was planned to be the TF cartoon for the foreseeable future, stretching over 5+ years, and I guess my response was always that people believe that load of horseradish? Honestly? 5+ years for a cartoon? I know, inb4 Simpsons/Flintstones/Family Guy/other obviously major network/prime time shows. Really, a TF cartoon that would run for more than 3 or 4 seasons? The original ran for three season in the States, Beast Wars for 3 (so there's two of the best, or most popular, or influential) and people honestly think that there's going to be a cartoon that runs for more than 5 years?
We're not talking about like, niche animation like the Adult Swim stuff, and not about the mainstream Fox stuff. If it does last for that long, I'll necrobump this thread to apologize. But seriously, people really think that a TF cartoon will run over 5 years and not eventually just lose its audience and/or appeal?

Dagon wrote:To address the initial question, I don't know. Animateds' success or lack of is just like the movies: if you like it you are somehow in the class of the next evolution of human being, and are therefore able to comprehend things that mortals don't like, and if you don't like it, you're only disliking it becuase it's popular to do so, and you feel that great a need for popularity that you bandwagon shows and movies just ot fit it. I didn't care for Animated, but it's always a shame when a cartoon gets the ax.

That's cool man. I hope I didn't give the impression that all were lowly peons for not liking TFA or whatnot. I don't like it when people do that, either, its childish.

I'm just reading through for a couple of minutes and wanted to tag along with this idea here.
For some reason, there was this idea floating around that Prime was going to be/was planned to be the TF cartoon for the foreseeable future, stretching over 5+ years, and I guess my response was always that people believe that load of horseradish? Honestly? 5+ years for a cartoon? I know, inb4 Simpsons/Flintstones/Family Guy/other obviously major network/prime time shows. Really, a TF cartoon that would run for more than 3 or 4 seasons? The original ran for three season in the States, Beast Wars for 3 (so there's two of the best, or most popular, or influential) and people honestly think that there's going to be a cartoon that runs for more than 5 years?
We're not talking about like, niche animation like the Adult Swim stuff, and not about the mainstream Fox stuff. If it does last for that long, I'll necrobump this thread to apologize. But seriously, people really think that a TF cartoon will run over 5 years and not eventually just lose its audience and/or appeal?

No need to apologize, man, I think what you're saying still relates to the original question in a way.
I think that a TF cartoon can indeed run for 5 years or more, given certain considerations are met. My favourite Anime (well, the only Anime I've liked since Robotech truth be told) went 6 seasons, and finished a few years later with a 7th to much fan relief. My take on that success was that it was a great story with great characters, all of whom had satisfying circles of growth. Everyone and everything in the story evolved in a way that was both fitting, natural and not distracting. In fact, the ways that things and people evolved continually enhanced the story. Lastly, the story never lost sight over what it was about.

Likewise with a TF cartoon series; if it can meet all the above criteria in ways that suit the franchise, then I think it can work for 5 years or more. TFA, seemed to have been meeting the above criteria in its way. There was an evolution in things that was fitting, natural, non-distracting, while enhancing the overall story by setting the stage for yet bigger and more exciting events.

Now, that being said I have concerns about TF Prime, not so much because it's a 5 year plan, but because the set-up looks like it will stunt all the criteria for long-term success.
-Starting them on Earth; extremely bad idea. If this show is about what it means to be a 'Prime,' then they should have started on Cybertron. Start just where Exodus started, with Orion Pax. We've not seen this version of Optimus' story explored at any great depth on a TV series. Starting on Earth, been there, done that. TFA sidestepped this whole cliche by making 'Prime' a common rank and Optimus as wash-up with redemption potential.
-More human drama than ever before...
This is what makes me wonder if Hasbro is out of touch rather than just really confident. Its almost like the success of Bay's films have given them a mistaken impression on who the focus should really be on. Having human characters that immediately clash with the human characters in the films doesn't make any sense to me either, creatively, or business-wise.
-No toys on the immediate horizon. This seems to have hurt TFA in some degree from what I've been reading.
-Premium Cable...(was it you Dagon, that mentioned this initially?)
A show on Premium cable, in hard times, and competing against the juggernaut that is Clone Wars, which is more widely available...Yeah, not looking good there. I'm not intrigued enough to up my cable bill by more than half just to watch this. Surely I'm not alone it that either. Again, Hasbro is either just really confident that they've got something special, or they're flat out of touch with their own property.

Rodimus the Prime wrote:I worked on TV shows, actually. I did Story Boards, Lip-syncing, but mostly Character design. I did certainly see my share of politics though; shows that would get sabotaged because so-and-so on the Producing side didn't want to push it, or promising shows that would end up in limbo because of disagreements or non-interest or some silly reason. So, yeah, I'm not in the least bit surprised to hear that politics was a factor here. Pity too, because a season 4 would have been awesome!

I feel you on what you're saying about Animated. I'd just recently finished watching season 3. While the first season was a bit rocky in places (well, just with those human villains), I really loved the new take on the typical Universe. I loved the Decepticons as hulking brutes that the Autobots were generally hard-pressed to fight. I especially liked the notion of making Optimus a lower Captain, with Prime as a rank, and Ultra Magnus as the Military leader. Just added a new dose of freshness to things. And as you noted, Megatron and Starscream haven't been that fun since TF:The Movie.
My only issue: not enough Rodimus Prime!

1: Cool, what shows did you work on if don't me mind asking? Also, I was studying to be a Computer Animator, but then I found accounting pays more, and is a lot less tedious. And yes, season 4 would've rocked, but that ending was just so epic on so many levels. To be an Autobot in that crowd must have felt like being in American the day WWII ended.

2: Yeah, giving the Autobots an underdog status was brilliant. I didn't mind the human villains so much, except for Prof. Princess. I think the idea of human characters competing with Transformers with superpowers/advance tech has merit to it, and quite frankly the only way to ensure a consistent chance of success without a huge cost in lives. In addition, I loved Sentinel Prime. He was a self serving jerk, and he loved to give Optimus crap at any chance he could get, but that what made him great. Huge difference from the thousands of yes men that usually surounds Optimus.

3: Pick up the toy. It is awesome. Kind of wish it a had smirk though.

Rodimus the Prime wrote:

Dagon wrote:To address the initial question, I don't know. Animateds' success or lack of is just like the movies: if you like it you are somehow in the class of the next evolution of human being, and are therefore able to comprehend things that mortals don't like, and if you don't like it, you're only disliking it becuase it's popular to do so, and you feel that great a need for popularity that you bandwagon shows and movies just ot fit it. I didn't care for Animated, but it's always a shame when a cartoon gets the ax.

That's cool man. I hope I didn't give the impression that all were lowly peons for not liking TFA or whatnot. I don't like it when people do that, either, its childish.

Not at all man. I was just saying, and what I was trying to say may have been/ may be misconstrued at some point anyway, but you're not giving any negative impressions at all. Carry on good sir.

@ Dagon: Thanks man!

Chupacabra Convoy wrote:1: Cool, what shows did you work on if don't me mind asking? Also, I was studying to be a Computer Animator, but then I found accounting pays more, and is a lot less tedious. And yes, season 4 would've rocked, but that ending was just so epic on so many levels. To be an Autobot in that crowd must have felt like being in American the day WWII ended.

Didn't work on anything cool, unfortunately, lol! I'd worked on some old kid's toons: Raibow Fish, Corduroy, Mega-Babies, one other but I can't remember the name, lol. I'd done a bit of work on the sequel for Prince of Egypt. I'd also worked on the Mr Hell Show.
From Cg to Accounting eh? Cool man! All the sweeter if your making more bread!
Yeah, the ending to TFA was well done! I'm relieved too because it easily could have been left with loose ends everywhere.

2: Yeah, giving the Autobots an underdog status was brilliant. I didn't mind the human villains so much, except for Prof. Princess. I think the idea of human characters competing with Transformers with superpowers/advance tech has merit to it, and quite frankly the only way to ensure a consistent chance of success without a huge cost in lives. In addition, I loved Sentinel Prime. He was a self serving jerk, and he loved to give Optimus crap at any chance he could get, but that what made him great. Huge difference from the thousands of yes men that usually surounds Optimus.

Oh man, Sentinel Prime was an absolute riot! I loved his character too! Funny thing is is that this was my first intro to the character, and therefore the standard I'll measure all future Sentinel Primes to!

3: Pick up the toy. It is awesome. Kind of wish it a had smirk though.

Duuuuuude....If I could only find it! I would be one happy TF nut . Trouble is is where I'm currently living; St. Louis seems to be the last place in the country to ever get anything, if at all. Not the end of the world of course; I'll find him somehow, as he's my #1 priority figure right now!

Rodimus the Prime wrote:From Cg to Accounting eh? Cool man! All the sweeter if your making more bread!

Yeah, I think it is worth it, even though I had to start from rock bottom school wise, but all of it is actually easier to understand than Computer animation. In fact a lot of business is just common sense, and understanding economics.

Rodimus the Prime wrote:Oh man, Sentinel Prime was an absolute riot! I loved his character too! Funny thing is is that this was my first intro to the character, and therefore the standard I'll measure all future Sentinel Primes to!

I loved the fact that only was he voiced by the Tick voice actor, but he looked like the Tick as well.

Rodimus the Prime wrote:Duuuuuude....If I could only find it! I would be one happy TF nut . Trouble is is where I'm currently living; St. Louis seems to be the last place in the country to ever get anything, if at all. Not the end of the world of course; I'll find him somehow, as he's my #1 priority figure right now!

If i wasn't strapped for cash, I'd send you one. However, the Takara one is already available online.

Oh, no worries, man, It's cool! Thanks any way though, eh!
Yeah, I've seen the Japanese one online; the price-tag plus shipping is keeping me at bay for the moment (I must balance my toy budget between TFs, Clone Wars and MOTUC), but I'm pretty close to caving, lol!

Any how, yeah, Sentinal Prime aka the Tick; that was just too perfect!
Sentinel Prime needs his own series though, I say!

i will tell you the 100% truth because i was there... Hasbro wanted to do a new Toon that tied into the movieverse more... so they cut their strings while they could

Maybe a combination of factors. The economy, Network politics, stupid scheduling, idiotic human villains inclusion in the plot and fandom backlash against the "stylized" character designs........

ComicBookBoo wrote:i will tell you the 100% truth because i was there... Hasbro wanted to do a new Toon that tied into the movieverse more... so they cut their strings while they could

Ahhh...now there's something I've not heard! Very interesting! Thanks for sharing that!

So I guess that's where Prime comes in. What you're saying makes sense too, because despite what Hasbro is saying about it being the same continuity as WFC, it has little in common with WFC, from the designs to all the contradictions in the story.

I can't help but wonder if the popularity and overwhelmingly favourable reception toward WFC has affected Hasbro's stance about TF:Prime, i.e. why they're slow to make toys, and quick to try and tie it in with WFC, when they're clearly not the same story.

Rodimus the Prime wrote:

ComicBookBoo wrote:i will tell you the 100% truth because i was there... Hasbro wanted to do a new Toon that tied into the movieverse more... so they cut their strings while they could

Ahhh...now there's something I've not heard! Very interesting! Thanks for sharing that!

So I guess that's where Prime comes in. What you're saying makes sense too, because despite what Hasbro is saying about it being the same continuity as WFC, it has little in common with WFC, from the designs to all the contradictions in the story.

I can't help but wonder if the popularity and overwhelmingly favourable reception toward WFC has affected Hasbro's stance about TF:Prime, i.e. why they're slow to make toys, and quick to try and tie it in with WFC, when they're clearly not the same story.

The decision was very high up and people at CartoonNetwork involved (i dont want to name names) were told last minute too.
I found out as i was working on the Official IDW comic and looking forward to working on volume two...

IDW wouldnt continue the comic because Hasbro wasnt interested

THATS because they were already pouring reserouces into what would become TF Prime to blend into the movie franchise.

The thing with most video games is they have short shelflife popularitys, but recently games like ArkhamAsylum really tapped into "cult collectors" and i think War For Cybertron has done the same, the game was welcomed better than Hasbro had hoped and still ties into the WarWithin - classics vibe.

But TFA is like Beastwars, it's got a strong clear visual style that Hasbro just wanted to break from

That said, TFA is still huge in japan, the AllSpark Almanacs are the BEST TF artbooks in existance and this year a NEW TFA book will come out with brand new comic pages i illustrated for it, it's on pre-order on Amazon at the moment...

so in small ways TFA endures

ComicBookBoo wrote:The thing with most video games is they have short shelflife popularitys, but recently games like ArkhamAsylum really tapped into "cult collectors" and i think War For Cybertron has done the same, the game was welcomed better than Hasbro had hoped and still ties into the WarWithin - classics vibe.

The only problem with that is that War for Cybertron wasn't even close to Arkham Asylum's reception or sales.

Shadowman wrote:

ComicBookBoo wrote:The thing with most video games is they have short shelflife popularitys, but recently games like ArkhamAsylum really tapped into "cult collectors" and i think War For Cybertron has done the same, the game was welcomed better than Hasbro had hoped and still ties into the WarWithin - classics vibe.

The only problem with that is that War for Cybertron wasn't even close to Arkham Asylum's reception or sales.

of course not, i'm still waiting for it to comedown in price for PS3 so i can even play it... but witin the realm of transformers merchandising, hasbro is always looking for the next style

Thanks again for the perspective CBB! It's good to get some insider info!!