The Energon Pub

Burn wrote:No AK, I think you'll find they stopped posting because they had their say and moved on.

Something you said you were going to do.

Yeah you got me I was bored at work and the system there wont let me onto http://www.thetaverntable.com so for want of somewhere better to go I wandered across here to see what was up, I'll try not to to it again but I can't promise anything. I don't think I've been in anyway arrogance, or insulted the intelligence of anyone undeserving of such treatment.

Burn wrote:But the one thing i've seen a lot of is a number of the "haters" who simply cannot accept that people enjoyed this movie and feel the need to harp on about it incessantly with a "i'm right and that's all that matters" attitude.

Do the "supporters" do it? Some sure, but i've seen more from the "hater" side of things. Funny though, when a "supporter" does it they get branded trolls but it's perfectly okay for them to do it.

Well that why I've steered clear of any pro-movie threads. This thread is titled "why does everyone hate Michael Bay so much?" I'm hardly going against the spirit of the thread by posting my thought on the matter. I personally don't think Sonray is doing anything wrong either and I've never accused him of such, we're all just expressing our opinion on the matter.

What really gets on my nerves is when people start wading in with silly internet accusations of Trolling, flaming and all that ****. If you don't like what someone is saying ignore them or tell them why you thing they are wrong. Transformers really isn't that serious a business that you have to start getting all up in arms about someones differing opinion, some people on this board just need to man up.

Yours AK

Alex Kingdom wrote:I don't think I've been in anyway arrogance, or insulted the intelligence of anyone undeserving of such treatment.

You haven't. You're one of the rare few who managed to express their concerns and dislikes of the movie without resorting to personal insults and ego-wanking.

You did however get repeatative.

What really gets on my nerves is when people start wading in with silly internet accusations of Trolling, flaming and all that ****. If you don't like what someone is saying ignore them or tell them why you thing they are wrong. Transformers really isn't that serious a business that you have to start getting all up in arms about someones differing opinion, some people on this board just need to man up.

Yeah, but we all know that reality is a fantasy.

Burn wrote:You did however get repeatative.

True

Burn wrote:Yeah, but we all know that reality is a fantasy.

And true again.

Yours AK

Burn wrote:

Alex Kingdom wrote:Quite possible. However I'd say its closer to 60-40 as lot of fans who didn't like the movie have long since stopped posting here and on other sites due to the arrogant, fanboyish, un-educated and biased opinions of those who refuse to entertain any criticism of the movie no matter how valid. Whatever side of the fence you sit on Fanboys will be fanboys/morons.

No AK, I think you'll find they stopped posting because they had their say and moved on.

Something you said you were going to do.

It's funny how some of the arguments i've seen from the "haters" have been filled with arrogance, insulted the intelligence of those who liked the movie, and branded themselves as "true" fans and elevated themselves above others.

Are the supporters of the movie without sin? Hell no. I've seen plenty of idiotic, rude, moronic and insulting comments from some.

But the one thing i've seen a lot of is a number of the "haters" who simply cannot accept that people enjoyed this movie and feel the need to harp on about it incessantly with a "i'm right and that's all that matters" attitude.

Do the "supporters" do it? Some sure, but i've seen more from the "hater" side of things. Funny though, when a "supporter" does it they get branded trolls but it's perfectly okay for them to do it.

People liked it, accept it.
People hated it, accept it.

Frankly I think the time for ramming opinions down each others throats is long gone now. Nothing either side does is going to change anything.

Oh and wingdarkness, feeding trolls is just as bad as being one, especially when you feed them with flame baits, might want to think that before elevating yourself over the rest of us unevolved apes. :WINK:

QFT!

This is exactly what ive been trying to say, and it is the truth.

The haters of the movie think its ok to troll and ram their opinions down the fans of the movies' throat, but when we do it in retaliation we are deemed as trolls.

A pathetic double standard.

And just so you know wingdarkness, i dont read any of your posts.

I just see my name mentioned in bold letters and so i ignore the rest of the drivel that spews from your keyboard. Why? Because you are doing nothing but trolling and baiting, and just to make sure i dont lower myself to your pathetic level and end up saying something i might regret i ignore all posts by people like you.

Sonray, you're not entirely innocent. You do seem to frequently use confrontational, brash language. A lot of your posts do seem to be about how others are spouting "crap", "bullshit", "drivel", etc. or telling people to "go away" because they're "pathetic", "trolling" or "baiting".

Leonardo wrote:Sonray, you're not entirely innocent. You do seem to frequently use confrontational, brash language. A lot of your posts do seem to be about how others are spouting "crap", "bullshit", "drivel", etc. or telling people to "go away" because they're "pathetic", "trolling" or "baiting".

Thats because they are. They piss me off, shout all this crap and tell us we are idiots and im just supposed to take it and be happy about it? No, because there is something called having emotions.

I only defend myself and GIVE what i receive. And no i know im not innocent but i only defend myself against stupid comments by stupid people and at least im not going around trolling everyone and calling them all idiots for liking a movie.

Whew! Never realize there's such a heavy bombardment here in this thread. Almost like carpet bombing!

I hope i won't step on landmines here. Thread lightly.

I think some of the negative reaction Bay gets from fans was due to Bay's initial disgust, or maybe detest, on this "toy" movie. He immediately shut it down, concluded his decision, without first trying to see the light or making sense out of it first. It took prodding from big-shot Speilberg to finally talk some sense into him and made him reconsider. So it's like a "karma". Some people reacted in a way, like somewhat returning the favor.

What i'm trying to say is, respect begets respect. A little consideration can go a long long way.

Another Bay attitude towards this project is to want to do everything on his terms.

Imagine if there was no uproar, no intense criticism from fanboys, and no death threats, and Bay could have totally freehand, who could imagine what this Transformers Movie could become. The tendency is towards something entirely different, almost unrelated to the original franchise.

He probably failed to appreciate the folklore, traditions, and long history built into this franchise.

It's almost like World War II. You can't just change that at will. You can create something dramatically different and creative, but you still got to stick to the basic idea.

Anyway, thanks to vigilance of the TF community, the Movie is at least half a Transformer. Well, probably much less than half. At least, not entirely unrecognizable.

it was a good movie; not perfect but good. and it's made how much at the box office???

at least someone had the balls to make it, even though Speilerg talked him into it.

Phategod1 wrote:

Creature SH wrote:

KoH4711 wrote:If Bay's just making stupid, pointless action movies and has no talent as a director... why do his films consistently make a lot of money, where others don't? If it's such an easy thing, why can't anyone just make a low budget action flick that appeals to the "least common denominator" and be hugely successful?

Because there are more stupid people than intelligent ones, perchance ?

undeniable truth!

So because I enjoy a couple of his movies, especially TF, that makes me stupid. This why the whole argument fails, cuz people goto the intelligence insulting. I mean, who's to say you're smarter than the one you insult? It's that whole thought process that angers me to no end.

roy_flagg00 wrote: I can admit that the designs and action scenes were not that bad, but I don't see how someone could believe that:
1) Anthony Anderson's character was really neccessary to the plot.
2)bumblebee peeing on a human was funny
3)Jazz needed to be a 'ghettobot' (scatman is really spining in his grave)
4) the whole backyard scene was not cring-worthy (it makes me irritated just thinking about it)

if anyone can present a cohesive argument as to why these points were vital to the plot progression, I would be suprised and even impressed, but I doubt that will happen. Someone will probably post on how I am a geewunner and afraid of change and what not.
proceed

btw, Beastwars pwns biatch (it's okay cause jazz said biatch in the movie)

I've got my thoughts on your questions:

1. I'll admit, he wasn't necessary. The whole hacker sub plot was actually useless. I agree with you here.
2.I laughed, more outta shock value though, really. It's was just real uncharacteristic for the TFs I know to do that, that's what made it funny for me.
3. Movie Jazz to me comes across as a perfect update to G1 Jazz. He was hip(or meant to be, obviously to some he doesn't come off that way). It's just that these days "ghetto" is hip. That's why he was the "ghettobot" because that's what's hip these days. Just like G1 Jazz was hip in the 80s. Just because he doesn't fit your(or mine for that matter) idea of hip, doesn't mean he isn't to the masses.
4. I don't see what you see wrong with that scene, really. Beingings new to the planet were interacting with a foreign environment. They don't know what parents or birdbaths are capable of. They don't realize that cars and trucks and such don't park in backyards(well aren't supposed to). It seems they got the quickie guide to earth through the internet and not even a proper crash course. But then again, when you're trying to keep an interstellar war from breaking out on another planet, little things like this are really of no consequence.

And I totally agree with you about BW. Easily the greatest plot and story of all of the TF series on tv(comics are another story). If they'd had that level of story telling in the movie, plot wouldn't have been a problem.

I hate bay cuz he sold out on the blu-ray issue

Okay, I just want to state that I don't necessarily think that everybody who liked the movie is stupid. But I seriously don't understand how intelligent people can enjoy this mess. It's a mystery to me.

Creature SH wrote:Okay, I just want to state that I don't necessarily think that everybody who liked the movie is stupid. But I seriously don't understand how intelligent people can enjoy this mess. It's a mystery to me.

Well we do, why?

BECAUSE WE ARE TRANSFORMER FANS

And that aside, as i already stated earlier, i like most of Bay's flicks.

Please, check out the Critics rating on tomatometer for all of Bay's films.The only one that seemed to be fine was Rock and Island I think. The rest have been unanimously panned by the critics.

Money does not equal quality. Some of the great films have not earned half of what Bay's hits have earned.

Simple logic.

Conceptron wrote:Please, check out the Critics rating on tomatometer for all of Bay's films.The only one that seemed to be fine was Rock and Island I think. The rest have been unanimously panned by the critics.

Money does not equal quality. Some of the great films have not earned half of what Bay's hits have earned.

Simple logic.

Again you are letting your judgment be impaired by what stuck up snot-nosed critics say.

We all know critics will slam anything that isnt a crime thriller these days so to take their word for something is about as idiotic as you can get.

Maybe if you actually watched the movies first and came to your OWN conclusion then maybe youd have something to say thats worth the bandwidth that it takes up to type and post your message.

BTW, Bay hasnt made that many movies: 7 infact....thats hardly a record, or a mass producing film maker that prefers quantity and fame over quality.

And money can mean quality in some cases. Look at some of the greats: T2, Titanic, Batman Begins, Pirates 1 2 &3, all of the Die Hard's, LOTR, the list is endless of great movies that also made a CRAPLOAD of money.

This part of your arguement is once again, moot.

Sonray wrote:Well we do, why?

BECAUSE WE ARE TRANSFORMER FANS

So I am none ?

Creature SH wrote:

Sonray wrote:Well we do, why?

BECAUSE WE ARE TRANSFORMER FANS

So I am none ?

So you are none what?

Creature SH wrote:Okay, I just want to state that I don't necessarily think that everybody who liked the movie is stupid. But I seriously don't understand how intelligent people can enjoy this mess. It's a mystery to me.

Because some intelligent people who spend 40 hours a week crunching numbers and remembering all sorts of taxation legislation like to be able to unwind with a movie that doesn't cause them to dwell too much on the deeper thought provoking meanings hidden within the movie.

Plus it was just a really fun action movie.

And if that's not a good enough explanation for you, not my problem. People hated this movie and some of their reasons have been shallow and petty, and i've accepted that they didn't like it. Can people accept my shallow and petty reasons for liking it or will I be forced to endure another round of "education from the true fans"?

bookofjunon wrote:

Sonray wrote:

bookofjunon wrote:

Sonray wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:

Burn wrote:So basically if you like a Michael Bay film you're lacking intelligence?

Basically? Heh.

No, that's EXACTLY what they're saying. Sad thing is, from interviews with the man, he's anything but lacking in intelligence. Oh sure, he goes for the easy route in some of his movies, and he makes money for movies that some people can't even wrap their minds around.

But that doesn't make him a stupid man. That makes him an intelligent man who knows how to work with the system and fight it if need be.

Sticking to his guns, he made TransFormers the way he wanted to and it's now the 24th biggest film of 2007 for the US. And one of the top three biggest of the year for the entire WORLD. $670million +...and it continues to climb.

More positive, than negative reviews. People enjoyed it, it was fun, and the overall consensus at Yahoo! Movies is a solid B+ for a movie that up until a few years ago, had no legs to stand on.

I'm not sure what pisses the people off more...the fact that he's not stupid, he does know what he's doing, he did turn it into a gigantic friggin' hit.

Or, they can't deal with that because they were wrong about the entire thing...

Go away Book of Junion, i cant be bothered to read your drivel.

Learn to spell and stop trolling.

Heed your own advice, and learn that no one spells properly around here.

You have the audacity to call me a troll, not only after i just made a very in-depth and educated comment, but considering my post count you hardly have any grounds to call ME, of all people, a troll.

You are the only one trolling around here, so bite me.

LOL, your post count? That's your defense? LOL! As for in-depth and educated comment... No what you made was a close minded (I'm right I'm not listening to you lalalalalalalalalaalalalala) comment. There was certainly no education behind anything you've posted in this thread.

You can like Bay all you want, just remember you are in the wrong thread to do it. So it is not I who must heed my own advice, you came to this thread, if you can't hack it and all you want to do is argue then leave.

I'm not the first to say it and I'm sure i won't be the last.

Don't you dare insinuate that if peoples opinion on this thread is in the minority that they shouldn't post. If you can't handle someone's opposing viewpoints and have to resort to personal attacks, then don't post on this site anymore.

If people post threads like "Why I don't like Michael Bay", expect Michael Bay supporters to post to the contrary. If you can't handle that then don't make the thread. And I'm tired of getting complaints about the same people who can't handle people disagreeing with them. Take this as a warning and stop getting personal. Either you like the guys work or you don't, there are plenty of things to agree about and not make this the dividing line.

Sonray wrote:So you are none what?

"No fan". Not that I'd exactly wear liking something as a badge. Just curious.

Burn wrote:Because some intelligent people who spend 40 hours a week crunching numbers and remembering all sorts of taxation legislation like to be able to unwind with a movie that doesn't cause them to dwell too much on the deeper thought provoking meanings hidden within the movie.

Plus it was just a really fun action movie.

And if that's not a good enough explanation for you, not my problem. People hated this movie and some of their reasons have been shallow and petty, and i've accepted that they didn't like it. Can people accept my shallow and petty reasons for liking it or will I be forced to endure another round of "education from the true fans"?

First of all, let's cut the "True fan" crap. Seriously.
I have a hard time accepting things that I perceive as "wrong", and this movie goes in that category.
You know, I've stated my thoughts and reasons so many times over that I really don't feel like rattling them down again. Just this much: I want a movie to speak to me. This movie just seems to fart in my general direction and expects me to enjoy the smell.

Creature SH wrote:

Sonray wrote:So you are none what?

"No fan". Not that I'd exactly wear liking something as a badge. Just curious.

Burn wrote:Because some intelligent people who spend 40 hours a week crunching numbers and remembering all sorts of taxation legislation like to be able to unwind with a movie that doesn't cause them to dwell too much on the deeper thought provoking meanings hidden within the movie.

Plus it was just a really fun action movie.

And if that's not a good enough explanation for you, not my problem. People hated this movie and some of their reasons have been shallow and petty, and i've accepted that they didn't like it. Can people accept my shallow and petty reasons for liking it or will I be forced to endure another round of "education from the true fans"?

First of all, let's cut the "True fan" crap. Seriously.
I have a hard time accepting things that I perceive as "wrong", and this movie goes in that category.
You know, I've stated my thoughts and reasons so many times over that I really don't feel like rattling them down again. Just this much: I want a movie to speak to me. This movie just seems to fart in my general direction and expects me to enjoy the smell.

No one expects you to enjoy anything, like it has been previously stated no one is forcing you to like this movie, but the fans of it shouldnt be forced to dislike it either.

I still dont quite understand what you was trying to say before, but if was trying to say that im claiming people who do not like the movie arent TF fans then thats not what i am saying.

You can be a TF fan and dislike the movie, but there can also be TF fans that DO like the movie, such as myself. Just dont go around and try to tell ME (not you specifically im telling not to, but all of the "haters" that cant accept the fact that people like this film and Bays other works) what is and isnt good, just because you dont like this one movie, which has been the problem since this whole debate started.

Creature SH wrote:I have a hard time accepting things that I perceive as "wrong", and this movie goes in that category.
You know, I've stated my thoughts and reasons so many times over that I really don't feel like rattling them down again.

You don't need to, you've stated them, i've read them, I understand your thoughts and I accept that you don't like the movie. Hell even if you hadn't given a list of reasons I would have still accepted that you didn't like it.

There hasn't been a movie made that everyone has supported.

But let me get this right, because you feel it's wrong you simply cannot accept the opinions of others who enjoyed this movie?

Like I said, if you had come out and said "I didn't like this movie one bit", I personally would have accepted that. Can you be as accepting when I say "I liked and enjoyed this movie"?

Hi there. BTW, sonray, you're what i like to call: "some one who says things that make alot of sense to me". It was Micheal Bays TF rendition that brought me BACK to TF. After OP died in the first movie, I cried for like a day and never wanted anything to do with my former childhood heros again... this summer i said: "what the hey" and saw the movie. Personally (and i can only speak for myself on this one) MB's work on this was sensory overload (in a good way) and i think he did very well on it (he is very talented). I'm not a strict purist either, always open to new ideas about something, but I can see why some fans would have trouble swallowing Bay's film - especially if you are not a Bay fan to start with. I'm afraid I am going to have to agree that the bay bashing is getting a little too overheated. What people have to ask themselves is: "Do I dislike MB's TF movie because it really disappointed me in some way? or Do I dislike it because if I don't, then I will lose my social status as a true TF fan?" this happens so much in every fanbased series and it hurts me deeply to see people who are supposed to be uniting over something they have in common quibbling over POV's on the subject matter. I have my opinion, he has his, she has hers, let it be that we disagree, respect each others POV's and move on. Leave the man alone.

Burn wrote:

Creature SH wrote:I have a hard time accepting things that I perceive as "wrong", and this movie goes in that category.
You know, I've stated my thoughts and reasons so many times over that I really don't feel like rattling them down again.

You don't need to, you've stated them, i've read them, I understand your thoughts and I accept that you don't like the movie. Hell even if you hadn't given a list of reasons I would have still accepted that you didn't like it.

There hasn't been a movie made that everyone has supported.

But let me get this right, because you feel it's wrong you simply cannot accept the opinions of others who enjoyed this movie?

Like I said, if you had come out and said "I didn't like this movie one bit", I personally would have accepted that. Can you be as accepting when I say "I liked and enjoyed this movie"?

Burn, your post, will now become the Apollo Creed (I couldn't think if the correct word is creed or creedo, but I think Apollo Creed makes more of a point) of this thread.

Respect each others opinion. Simple as that. It is ok to disagree, but get personal and you should be checking your PMs.

But ... Apollo Creed ended up getting killed at the hands of a Russian!

Burn wrote:But ... Apollo Creed ended up getting killed at the hands of a Russian!

DRAGO!!!!!!!!!!