The Energon Pub

Burn wrote:But ... Apollo Creed ended up getting killed at the hands of a Russian!

No... Apollo Creed was killed by He-Man, disguised as a Russian boxer. That sounds FAR more impressive.

I think, to sum up my feelings... Bay's not perfect, but I can think of a dozen or so names that would even the most jaded anti-Bay fan begging for his return. I will say, though, this thread has had some interesting discussion.

KoH4711 wrote:No... Apollo Creed was killed by He-Man, disguised as a Russian boxer. That sounds FAR more impressive.

That's if you choose to acknowledge the existence of THAT movie.

I'm trying to expunge it from my memory, you're not helping matters!

Burn wrote:

KoH4711 wrote:No... Apollo Creed was killed by He-Man, disguised as a Russian boxer. That sounds FAR more impressive.

That's if you choose to acknowledge the existence of THAT movie.

I'm trying to expunge it from my memory, you're not helping matters!

It won't work, I've tried. The knowledge of that piles existence is impossible to forget.

Sonray wrote:

These idiots are really doing my head in. Its like they expect Mc Donalds to suddenly start offering gourmet quisine instead of big macs for the same price! Simply idiotic i say.

Still, their loss.

So, it's not okay for the robots to look like the original children's cartoon, but it is okay for the plot to be barely step up from that same children's cartoon? that's a really low bar to set.
Again, I don't agree with the design choices, but I could have accepted them if the plot was better than what I watched as a child.

I place the blame at Bay's feet 100% for the movie having a completly inconsistent tone.
If you just like big robots with no substantive plot, poorly edited, etc., fine, but don't try to act like people are wrong because they wanted more. You should be thankful that there are those willing to be critical in the quest for a better product. Maybe some of this critisism might reach the ear of someone who could make change (yea right, but we can hope). But don't worry, karma is a bitch, and with Bay at the helm, the next movie is going to be exactly like the first one.

sonray: " I do agree that there were some things about the movie that could have been done better. "

Burn wrote:

KoH4711 wrote:No... Apollo Creed was killed by He-Man, disguised as a Russian boxer. That sounds FAR more impressive.

That's if you choose to acknowledge the existence of THAT movie.

I'm trying to expunge it from my memory, you're not helping matters!

In the years to come, I think others will come to recognize the genius masterpiece of a movie that that movie was.
"I'LL NEVER KNEEL TO YOU!" Classic!
Damn, I suck. I just realized that I can't stand Transformers 2007, but I love "Masters of the Universe".
Also the original 1980's "the Punisher".
Also "Pootie Tang".

The point is, a fine conosuier of film like myself can't deal with such an inferior movie as transformers is.


(BTW, I could run down a list of Crap films that I like for some reason)

roy_flagg00 wrote:

Sonray wrote:

These idiots are really doing my head in. Its like they expect Mc Donalds to suddenly start offering gourmet quisine instead of big macs for the same price! Simply idiotic i say.

Still, their loss.

So, it's not okay for the robots to look like the original children's cartoon, but it is okay for the plot to be barely step up from that same children's cartoon? that's a really low bar to set.
Again, I don't agree with the design choices, but I could have accepted them if the plot was better than what I watched as a child.

I place the blame at Bay's feet 100% for the movie having a completly inconsistent tone.
If you just like big robots with no substantive plot, poorly edited, etc., fine, but don't try to act like people are wrong because they wanted more. You should be thankful that there are those willing to be critical in the quest for a better product. Maybe some of this critisism might reach the ear of someone who could make change (yea right, but we can hope). But don't worry, karma is a bitch, and with Bay at the helm, the next movie is going to be exactly like the first one.

sonray: " I do agree that there were some things about the movie that could have been done better. "

Again, this WASNT A G1 REMAKE AND WAS NEVER INTENDED TO BE!

This movie is a new iteration of the transformers universe. How many times am i and others going to have to say that before people realize this was never meant to be a G1 remake.

Nor was it poorly edited or directed, but thats just my opinion. The main problem i have with this whole discussion is that people who dont like the movie think they are somehow better than the vast majority of people who do like the movie. Or if a TF fan likes the movie they are either an idiot with no taste in movies (which is the exact opposite of what i am as i have GREAT taste in movies and im not afraid to say that out loud) or they arent a "true" Transformers fan.

Not only are comments like that moronic, and anyone who thinks that way can be deemed so also, but they are insulting not only to the individual but also to a HUGE number of TF fans.

That is my main problem here. I dont care if you hate the movie or not, i couldnt give a flying slag what you think. But what i DO care about are people who go around on some imaginary intellectual self-fabricated high-horse telling other fans that they are idiots and morons and have no taste in movies and arent TF fans just because they like Bay's rendition of Transformers.

In my eyes you can take all the name calling and trolling thats been going on in this thread but none of that compares to how insulting and wrong the aforementioned mentality is.

Sonray wrote:

roy_flagg00 wrote:

Sonray wrote:

These idiots are really doing my head in. Its like they expect Mc Donalds to suddenly start offering gourmet quisine instead of big macs for the same price! Simply idiotic i say.

Still, their loss.

So, it's not okay for the robots to look like the original children's cartoon, but it is okay for the plot to be barely step up from that same children's cartoon? that's a really low bar to set.
Again, I don't agree with the design choices, but I could have accepted them if the plot was better than what I watched as a child.

I place the blame at Bay's feet 100% for the movie having a completly inconsistent tone.
If you just like big robots with no substantive plot, poorly edited, etc., fine, but don't try to act like people are wrong because they wanted more. You should be thankful that there are those willing to be critical in the quest for a better product. Maybe some of this critisism might reach the ear of someone who could make change (yea right, but we can hope). But don't worry, karma is a bitch, and with Bay at the helm, the next movie is going to be exactly like the first one.

sonray: " I do agree that there were some things about the movie that could have been done better. "

Again, this WASNT A G1 REMAKE AND WAS NEVER INTENDED TO BE!

This movie is a new iteration of the transformers universe. How many times am i and others going to have to say that before people realize this was never meant to be a G1 remake.

Nor was it poorly edited or directed, but thats just my opinion. The main problem i have with this whole discussion is that people who dont like the movie think they are somehow better than the vast majority of people who do like the movie. Or if a TF fan likes the movie they are either an idiot with no taste in movies (which is the exact opposite of what i am as i have GREAT taste in movies and im not afraid to say that out loud) or they arent a "true" Transformers fan.

Not only are comments like that moronic, and anyone who thinks that way can be deemed so also, but they are insulting not only to the individual but also to a HUGE number of TF fans.

That is my main problem here. I dont care if you hate the movie or not, i couldnt give a flying slag what you think. But what i DO care about are people who go around on some imaginary intellectual self-fabricated high-horse telling other fans that they are idiots and morons and have no taste in movies and arent TF fans just because they like Bay's rendition of Transformers.

In my eyes you can take all the name calling and trolling thats been going on in this thread but none of that compares to how insulting and wrong the aforementioned mentality is.

I don't think roy_flagg00 was saying this was a G1 remake or even that it should have been.

Who here is saying that people who liked the movie are stupid? You keep saying that people have attitude problems and that they are either attempting to ram their opinion down your (and others') throat[s] or that they are insulting anyone who liked the movie. From what I've read, Sonray, you're the one with the fierce, confrontational language and it makes you come off as the aggressive poster.

Bay Rocks, TFM2007 Rocks! And my happiness and ridiculous amounts of cash I've spent on it all prove it! TAKE MY MONEY MR BAY and HASBRO, YOU DESERVE IT.

Opinion, of course, which in the end doesn't really matter. But still..

ROCKS!!!

Leonardo wrote:I don't think roy_flagg00 was saying this was a G1 remake or even that it should have been.

Who here is saying that people who liked the movie are stupid? You keep saying that people have attitude problems and that they are either attempting to ram their opinion down your (and others') throat[s] or that they are insulting anyone who liked the movie. From what I've read, Sonray, you're the one with the fierce, confrontational language and it makes you come off as the aggressive poster.

If youve actually been following and reading the entire thread you will see it.

And im not the only one with an aggressive attitude either. I only get aggressive when people piss me off or bait me, then they get what they deserve, and only then i only give as good as i receive.

If someone says something that is completely and utterly stupid, then im gonna tell em they are stupid. And im not gonna just sit here and let people tell fans of the movie they are stupid or have no taste or arent "true" fans either.

Sonray wrote:

Leonardo wrote:I don't think roy_flagg00 was saying this was a G1 remake or even that it should have been.

Who here is saying that people who liked the movie are stupid? You keep saying that people have attitude problems and that they are either attempting to ram their opinion down your (and others') throat[s] or that they are insulting anyone who liked the movie. From what I've read, Sonray, you're the one with the fierce, confrontational language and it makes you come off as the aggressive poster.

If youve actually been following and reading the entire thread you will see it.

And im not the only one with an aggressive attitude either. I only get aggressive when people piss me off or bait me, then they get what they deserve, and only then i only give as good as i receive.

If someone says something that is completely and utterly stupid, then im gonna tell em they are stupid. And im not gonna just sit here and let people tell fans of the movie they are stupid or have no taste or arent "true" fans either.

No, this is where you are wrong, if someone says something that you find generally stupid, you will not tell them tehy are stupid. You can disagree with them and give supporting facts to back up your opinion, but you will not call them stupid. If someone baits you or attacks yo directly, you will PM one of the mods and alert us to it. Taking it in to your own hands will only end up getting you the warning. Now I have been following this thread as an observationist and I have to say you have made some decent points about allowing people to have their own opinion, which I agree with. But taking matters into your own hands won't solve anything besides makeing the argument worse and ending yourself up with a warning or a "time out". If you (or anyone) feel that you are being personally attacked, PM a moderator and one of us will take a look at it. Now realize that someone who might attack could realize the error of their ways and apologize, so don't write them off immediately because you had a disagreement on one subject, you might find out that person agrees with you on 99% of everything else, but you are focusing on the 1% where you don't.

Sonray wrote:

Leonardo wrote:I don't think roy_flagg00 was saying this was a G1 remake or even that it should have been.

Who here is saying that people who liked the movie are stupid? You keep saying that people have attitude problems and that they are either attempting to ram their opinion down your (and others') throat[s] or that they are insulting anyone who liked the movie. From what I've read, Sonray, you're the one with the fierce, confrontational language and it makes you come off as the aggressive poster.

If youve actually been following and reading the entire thread you will see it.

And im not the only one with an aggressive attitude either. I only get aggressive when people piss me off or bait me, then they get what they deserve, and only then i only give as good as i receive.

If someone says something that is completely and utterly stupid, then im gonna tell em they are stupid. And im not gonna just sit here and let people tell fans of the movie they are stupid or have no taste or arent "true" fans either.

I have been keeping up with the thread, though, and it did seem like it was yourself that caused a lot of the unprovoked attacks by suggesting that posters who disliked the film are "moronic G1 purists who are unable to accept change" (on page 1) and calling SpacerAM2's argument retarded (on page 2). You even said he was plain wrong, when he wasn't necessarily (it just depends on how one defines being faithful to the mythos).

Leonardo wrote:

Sonray wrote:

Leonardo wrote:I don't think roy_flagg00 was saying this was a G1 remake or even that it should have been.

Who here is saying that people who liked the movie are stupid? You keep saying that people have attitude problems and that they are either attempting to ram their opinion down your (and others') throat[s] or that they are insulting anyone who liked the movie. From what I've read, Sonray, you're the one with the fierce, confrontational language and it makes you come off as the aggressive poster.

If youve actually been following and reading the entire thread you will see it.

And im not the only one with an aggressive attitude either. I only get aggressive when people piss me off or bait me, then they get what they deserve, and only then i only give as good as i receive.

If someone says something that is completely and utterly stupid, then im gonna tell em they are stupid. And im not gonna just sit here and let people tell fans of the movie they are stupid or have no taste or arent "true" fans either.

I have been keeping up with the thread, though, and it did seem like it was yourself that caused a lot of the unprovoked attacks by suggesting that posters who disliked the film are "moronic G1 purists who are unable to accept change" (on page 1) and calling SpacerAM2's argument retarded (on page 2). You even said he was plain wrong, when he wasn't necessarily (it just depends on how one defines being faithful to the mythos).

Question, did you not see my posts on the last two pages to get back on subject? Do you not think that you are instigating by carrying on? This topic is about Michael Bay and people's opinion about him, not yor personal soap box about other people's posting style. If you have a problem with someone's posts, PM a moderator, don't try to take it into your own hands because we end up in a 10 page useless thread of arguing like we are now.

GetterDragun wrote:

Leonardo wrote:

Sonray wrote:

Leonardo wrote:I don't think roy_flagg00 was saying this was a G1 remake or even that it should have been.

Who here is saying that people who liked the movie are stupid? You keep saying that people have attitude problems and that they are either attempting to ram their opinion down your (and others') throat[s] or that they are insulting anyone who liked the movie. From what I've read, Sonray, you're the one with the fierce, confrontational language and it makes you come off as the aggressive poster.

If youve actually been following and reading the entire thread you will see it.

And im not the only one with an aggressive attitude either. I only get aggressive when people piss me off or bait me, then they get what they deserve, and only then i only give as good as i receive.

If someone says something that is completely and utterly stupid, then im gonna tell em they are stupid. And im not gonna just sit here and let people tell fans of the movie they are stupid or have no taste or arent "true" fans either.

I have been keeping up with the thread, though, and it did seem like it was yourself that caused a lot of the unprovoked attacks by suggesting that posters who disliked the film are "moronic G1 purists who are unable to accept change" (on page 1) and calling SpacerAM2's argument retarded (on page 2). You even said he was plain wrong, when he wasn't necessarily (it just depends on how one defines being faithful to the mythos).

Question, did you not see my posts on the last two pages to get back on subject? Do you not think that you are instigating by carrying on? This topic is about Michael Bay and people's opinion about him, not yor personal soap box about other people's posting style. If you have a problem with someone's posts, PM a moderator, don't try to take it into your own hands because we end up in a 10 page useless thread of arguing like we are now.

Well, I didn't see your last post, I was typing my response, and I'm not taking anything into my own hands, apologies! It's not as if Sonray is like this all the time. I was only referring to this thread!

GetterDragun wrote:

Sonray wrote:

Leonardo wrote:I don't think roy_flagg00 was saying this was a G1 remake or even that it should have been.

Who here is saying that people who liked the movie are stupid? You keep saying that people have attitude problems and that they are either attempting to ram their opinion down your (and others') throat[s] or that they are insulting anyone who liked the movie. From what I've read, Sonray, you're the one with the fierce, confrontational language and it makes you come off as the aggressive poster.

If youve actually been following and reading the entire thread you will see it.

And im not the only one with an aggressive attitude either. I only get aggressive when people piss me off or bait me, then they get what they deserve, and only then i only give as good as i receive.

If someone says something that is completely and utterly stupid, then im gonna tell em they are stupid. And im not gonna just sit here and let people tell fans of the movie they are stupid or have no taste or arent "true" fans either.

No, this is where you are wrong, if someone says something that you find generally stupid, you will not tell them tehy are stupid. You can disagree with them and give supporting facts to back up your opinion, but you will not call them stupid. If someone baits you or attacks yo directly, you will PM one of the mods and alert us to it. Taking it in to your own hands will only end up getting you the warning. Now I have been following this thread as an observationist and I have to say you have made some decent points about allowing people to have their own opinion, which I agree with. But taking matters into your own hands won't solve anything besides makeing the argument worse and ending yourself up with a warning or a "time out". If you (or anyone) feel that you are being personally attacked, PM a moderator and one of us will take a look at it. Now realize that someone who might attack could realize the error of their ways and apologize, so don't write them off immediately because you had a disagreement on one subject, you might find out that person agrees with you on 99% of everything else, but you are focusing on the 1% where you don't.

Getterdragun:

Heres what happens: As a person i have a VERY short temper, and stupidity really grinds my gears. Things annoy me that shouldnt, i am aware of this and due to some major mental health problems i tend to overreact to the sillyest thing. Certain issues play off of other issues and that just ends up making things even worse, hence why i tend to react the way i do.

Usually this isnt much of a problem until it is repeated over and over again like this issue has here over the past few months. And especially when certain people are going to try and constantly shove their opinions down my throat, then i would suspetc that ANY red-blooded man is going to get just a little pee'ed off especially when i am told i (and others) are stupid or unintelligent idiots with no taste because they enjoy a micheal bay flick. That (to me) is as much of a personal attack as calling someone a stupid name is, because not only am i being told im stupid and unintelligent but my friends and my wife are then also deemed stupid and unintelligent because they also like the movie. So, obviously someone with my sort of temper and issues is gonna get really pissed off with that, and some powerful words will inevitavly be muttered.

I know this isnt right, i know its stupid, but its just how i am i am afraid. If i could fix it and my other problems with the snap of a finger i would, but i have been trying for many years now and that never happens.

Im not saying that these issues justify what i say at times, because they dont, but i am just trying to explain to you the reason i am the way i am and say things the way i do just so you understand that i am not just some asshole who takes part in these sorts of debates for fun like a troll.

I am very sorry for the way i have acted, i dont usually apologize as its something i cant control thus i dont see the point in apologizing for having a problem i (and countless medications and therapists) cant change, but i am only saying sorry to YOU personally and not to anyone else, as i can only imagine how frustrating it must be as a moderator to have to follow these stupid debates and keep receiving PM's and complaints from people over the most ridiculous things.

I will try and ignore stuff like this from now on as it is really stupid to get so worked up over it, dont think i dont know this, i just cant control running my mouth off at stupid comments sometimes because they are....well so stupid.

I hope you understand, and once again i am sorry to you (and the other mods) if i have caused any trouble or stoking the fire further.

reason 275:
Bay is the Bush of the fandom. He has polarized us so..........

reason 36:
I am not a licenced film critic, but I feel that while it was not the worst movie ever, it had points that I take great issue with, and they all stem in one way or another from the "genius" of Bay. Also, if you look at bad boys 1 and 2, they could easily be the same movie. if bay directs tformers 2, expect more of the same with very little variation.

reason 82:
I also don't think we will see combiners until he is off the project either. The idea of combiners so distinctly G1 and so far from reality that he would never let it happen.

Also, check out http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/index.htm for a great laugh. see if you can find yourselves there, I know I found myself.

roy_flagg00 wrote: Also, if you look at bad boys 1 and 2, they could easily be the same movie. if bay directs tformers 2, expect more of the same with very little variation.

If it aint broke dont fix it.

Also, why are you making out like someone has quoted Bay as being a "genius" ?

roy_flagg00 wrote:reason 36:
I am not a licenced film critic,

If you were a licensed film critic then i'd be left with no choice BUT to mock you for your liking of the MOTU movie.

But you're not, and considering there's a lot of crap I like that people detest then i'd better let you off the hook anyway.

roy_flagg00 wrote:In the years to come, I think others will come to recognize the genius masterpiece of a movie that that movie was.
"I'LL NEVER KNEEL TO YOU!" Classic!
Damn, I suck. I just realized that I can't stand Transformers 2007, but I love "Masters of the Universe".
Also the original 1980's "the Punisher".
Also "Pootie Tang".

The point is, a fine conosuier of film like myself can't deal with such an inferior movie as transformers is.


(BTW, I could run down a list of Crap films that I like for some reason)

Masters is sort of like Street Fighter... it pairs a not so great actor in the lead role with a villain played by a respected actor who does a great job. I love Langella's Skeletor, just like I love Raul Julia's Bison. And they're just oddly fun movies(as Quentin Tarentino said... it's not a bad movie if it does its job and entertains you).

And I like stuff like Robot Jox, so I'm not sure how valid my opinion should be taken on these matters(admittedly, I like it to laugh at it, but still...).

KoH4711 wrote:(as Quentin Tarentino said... it's not a bad movie if it does its job and entertains you).

Tarantino said it right, because thats the truth.

Sonray wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:

Sonray wrote:

Leonardo wrote:I don't think roy_flagg00 was saying this was a G1 remake or even that it should have been.

Who here is saying that people who liked the movie are stupid? You keep saying that people have attitude problems and that they are either attempting to ram their opinion down your (and others') throat[s] or that they are insulting anyone who liked the movie. From what I've read, Sonray, you're the one with the fierce, confrontational language and it makes you come off as the aggressive poster.

If youve actually been following and reading the entire thread you will see it.

And im not the only one with an aggressive attitude either. I only get aggressive when people piss me off or bait me, then they get what they deserve, and only then i only give as good as i receive.

If someone says something that is completely and utterly stupid, then im gonna tell em they are stupid. And im not gonna just sit here and let people tell fans of the movie they are stupid or have no taste or arent "true" fans either.

No, this is where you are wrong, if someone says something that you find generally stupid, you will not tell them tehy are stupid. You can disagree with them and give supporting facts to back up your opinion, but you will not call them stupid. If someone baits you or attacks yo directly, you will PM one of the mods and alert us to it. Taking it in to your own hands will only end up getting you the warning. Now I have been following this thread as an observationist and I have to say you have made some decent points about allowing people to have their own opinion, which I agree with. But taking matters into your own hands won't solve anything besides makeing the argument worse and ending yourself up with a warning or a "time out". If you (or anyone) feel that you are being personally attacked, PM a moderator and one of us will take a look at it. Now realize that someone who might attack could realize the error of their ways and apologize, so don't write them off immediately because you had a disagreement on one subject, you might find out that person agrees with you on 99% of everything else, but you are focusing on the 1% where you don't.

Getterdragun:

i am aware of this and due to some major mental health problems i tend to overreact to the sillyest thing. Certain issues play off of other issues and that just ends up making things even worse, hence why i tend to react the way i do.

Prepare to live with this statement for a very long time.

Bay is awesome.

Phategod1 wrote:Prepare to live with this statement for a very long time.

If you are attempting to use such a statement against somebody with such an illness, then you dont deserve the air that you breathe in my eyes, and i wouldnt give a damn what you would say.

Besides, ive alreayd lived with it most of my life already thanks to bigots and arrogance.

Plus it would only take a PM to a mod to send you a warning, as i am sure making fun of peoples disabilities be they mental or physical is against the sites TOS.

So if i were you, id tread carefully.

DUDE! Seriously! Stop! You and I share similar views on this movie and some of the people who have criticized it but come on!

Look at what you just posted! You threaten to call the Mods on Phategod1 for what he said to you, directly after you tell him he doesn't deserve to breathe!

Stop it man. Take a step back and breathe some of that air yourself, because in all honesty, you ARE turning into the troll wingdarkness claims you to be. And I know you're better than that. Just let things go.

*walks through the flaming rubble that is this topic*

I'll have to side with quite a few peeps on this topic as to bay, isn't a technically good director. He makes his movies to entertain and make money, he was a commercial director before.. no? I don't like bay to much because I generally enjoy more thought provoking movies, but alot of people liked it and it appeals to it's target audiance well. I'll put this more objectively then I have before

BAY+
-action sequencenses that really keep you on the edge of your seat
-Many have stated that he directs some of the best most insane/entertaining chase scenes of any director
-His movies are easy to wrap your head around and generally have a smooth linear plot
-the guy knows how to make money

Bay-
-Shallow plots, easy to get around but some argue to easy
-Possibly to much action that drowns out the actual POINT of the movie, you begin to think the actuall name of the movie was "johnies explodin cars live!"
-Becomes to self centered around making mony and what he thinks people want to actuall concider many of others opinions, though it is "his movie" it is supposed to be made for the public. but some fans forget this point aswell

-zerge out

Burn wrote:DUDE! Seriously! Stop! You and I share similar views on this movie and some of the people who have criticized it but come on!

Look at what you just posted! You threaten to call the Mods on Phategod1 for what he said to you, directly after you tell him he doesn't deserve to breathe!

Stop it man. Take a step back and breathe some of that air yourself, because in all honesty, you ARE turning into the troll wingdarkness claims you to be. And I know you're better than that. Just let things go.

Actually i warned him that if he is going to go around and use peoples disabilities against them then he doesnt deserve the air that he breathes IMO.

That meant if he starts to go around and make fun of or use something against someone like the aforementioned mental illnesses then i will report him to the moderators, as that is just unnacceptable and completley out of order.

I dont see what is so bad about warning someone who is threatening to make fun out of someones illness...

If you was in a wheelchair (as an example) how would you feel if someone just decided to go around and start threatening to start flaming you and bring it up to use against you everytime they see you post a comment?

I was just giving a warning that was all because if he does wish to go that route, he can expect a PM from the mods.