The Energon Pub

by **Optimist Prime** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:33 am

I was watching the animated movie last night, still getting teary eyed over the death of Optimus Prime. I remember being in the theatre and bawling my eyes out along with all the other kids there. It was a dramatic moment that has left a lasting impression on me for over 20 years.

It occured to me that I didn't seem to care about Jazz's death in the recent movie, nor did anyone else at the movie seem to care. It's too bad too, I thought Jazz was pretty cool for the bits of the movie where he actually did anything.

I think the reason many of us get upset about Op's death is because he was a beloved character that was well fleshed out, and we had a vested interest in his survival. I also now think that Jazz was done a disservice by allowing him to die without fully exploring his death. I understand that he died to show that war has a cost.

However, I'm sure the production team at the time was very certain there would be a sequel (let's face it, movies like this always come in trilogies now because they make big money). Would it not make more sense to kill him later when people might actually give a damn. It's kind of like when you hear about someone's death on the news. Sure I feel bad, but it's worse when you know the person.

Ultimately I guess I'm arguing for more characterization in the movie. That's what makes a good movie great.

Any thoughts?

News Credits: 1 · by **Agent 007** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:04 pm

I agree, Jazz was a awsome character, Idk why bay killed him off, The really didn't even have to kill any Autobots off. Character development would have been much appreciated

News Credits: 665 · by **Skowl** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:26 pm

Optimus Prime = Emblematic character of the franchise

Jazz = secondary token character

Yes, Jazz was cool in the movie. But I much rather have some characters die so we can make room for new characters in the sequel, than have the same 5 Autobots throughout the franchise and never be able to include new ones.

If it's character developement you want, sorry to say but you probably won't get it in a Michael Bay movie. If they want, they can develop the main characters (the ones who will survive the series - Prime, Bumblebee and maybe Ironhide and Ratchet if they don't die in the next one) while adding and killing off the new characters who would only be in one movie at a time.

by **Decatron** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:53 pm

Except for BB who hasnt died in either movie..

1986- Optimus, Ironhide, Ratchet...dead in the first 25min or so?
2007- Jazz

Frankly, when I saw him get it, I just thought it was Jazz' turn anyway

by **dbz77** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:21 pm

Mr.Bond007 wrote:I agree, Jazz was a awsome character, Idk why bay killed him off, The really didn't even have to kill any Autobots off. Character development would have been much appreciated

Of course, in the animated movie they did not have to kill Ironhide or Ratchet off.

Michael

by **Nightracer GT** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:03 pm

Jazz, one of the best TF characters, was given the worst end of the stick ever for the movie.

In the movie, he was the token black guy, and a lame one at that. Two strikes against him. Third strike: He barely did anything. He's better off dead.

It sucks I know. I would have loved to have a cool Jazz character, and I would be rallying for that guy to come back.

News Credits: 487 · by **Darth Bombshell** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:59 am

Dark Zarak wrote:In the movie, he was the token black guy, and a lame one at that.

Oh sweet jeebus christ. :roll:

That had nothing to do with it. The writers said in an interview that they couldn't kill either Prime or Bumblebee, and of the three remaining Autobots, Jazz was the one they thought whose death would elicit the most vocal response from the audience.

Well, looks like they were right. But obviously not in the way they intended.

by **Siren Prime** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:47 am

I was really sad when he died.
I guess the writers figured that they had to kill at least one good guy.

News Credits: 3 · by **Damolisher** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:12 pm

Can I slap the nxt person that calls Jazz a black guy? Because he clearly isn't. He's a SILVER ROBOT. Last time I checked, acting like a black guy, or being voiced BY a black guy doesn't make you black. Is Destro black? Is G1 Devastator Black? Are half the Wangstas out there black? Hell no!

by **Siren Prime** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:44 pm

You take things too seriously, Damolisher.
But you do have a point. He's not black. He just sounds like it. Quite honestly though, he could have been "white" too.
It all depends on the actor.
Thousands of white guys say stuff like, "What's crackin' little bitches?"

News Credits: 3 · by **Damolisher** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:44 pm

It;'s not a case of taking anything too seriously, it's just the fact I'm getting sick of the sudden lack of cerebral activity I'm noticing in a LOT of Transformers fans lately. Between robosex, people crushing on Transformers, people who make constant nonsensical topics, people claming "Duh, I don't think Transformers have genders!" even though we've been told from day one, practically, they do, and hence why Transformers are referred to by gender specific terms, such as he, and his, and people calling Jazz "Black," (He's Cybertronian, HELLO!) I'm getting quite frustrated, more than anything, to tell you the truth.

News Credits: 226 · by **Burn** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:23 pm

Sounds like someone needs to stop logging in then. ;;)

That aside, calling Jazz "black" is as stupid as those people who believed George Lucas implied all Asians are dodgy business people bordering on slavers simply because the Trade Federation had Asian accents.

News Credits: 3 · by **Damolisher** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:39 pm

No, people just need to stop making idiots of themselves. ;;)

Other people need to stop making snide remarks and trying to act like they're all high and mighty every time one or two members voice their frustrations with other members for acting in a ridiculous manner. ;;)

by **Optimist Prime** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:43 pm

Damolisher wrote:No, people just need to stop making idiots of themselves. Other people need to stop making comments everytime one member says something to or about members that are getting on that person's nerves.

Yes, let's get back on topic.

by **Optimist Prime** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:43 pm

Damolisher wrote:No, people just need to stop making idiots of themselves. Other people need to stop making comments everytime one member says something to or about members that are getting on that person's nerves.

Yes, let's get back on topic.

by **Siren Prime** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:47 pm

You know Damolisher, the more your act like a jerk, the less people will listen to you.

News Credits: 226 · by **Burn** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:06 pm

Damolisher wrote:No, people just need to stop making idiots of themselves. Other people need to stop making snide remarks and trying to act like they're all high and mighty every time one or two members voice their frustrations with other members for acting in a ridiculous manner.

If people are making idiots of themselves and ruining your enjoyment of these forums or if you have a problem with another member then shouldn't you take it up with a Moderator? :???:

by **Siren Prime** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:13 pm

Burn wrote:
Damolisher wrote:No, people just need to stop making idiots of themselves. Other people need to stop making snide remarks and trying to act like they're all high and mighty every time one or two members voice their frustrations with other members for acting in a ridiculous manner.

If people are making idiots of themselves and ruining your enjoyment of these forums or if you have a problem with another member then shouldn't you take it up with a Moderator?

Damolisher just likes to insult other people's intelligence.
He's the high and mighty one.

by **Optimist Prime** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:32 pm

Why can't we just get along? :sad:

I didn't want to start a flame war or anything. I was just making an observation of the lack of an emotional response to Jazz' death on my part. Wether or not Jazz is the token black character is a moot point. Can we get back to the point please? Leave our personal dogma of how to post out of the converstaion.

Thank you

by **Siren Prime** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:42 pm

~Windcharger~ wrote:Why can't we just get along?

I didn't want to start a flame war or anything. I was just making an observation of the lack of an emotional response to Jazz' death on my part. Wether or not Jazz is the token black character is a moot point. Can we get back to the point please? Leave our personal dogma of how to post out of the converstaion.

Thank you

Yeah, you're right.
I was gonna ditch out anyway. It's not worth anyone's time.

Bottom line with me though, I just hope Jazz comes back.

by **Jazz Reborn** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:31 am

i too hope he comes back and with better screen time. just because no autobots die doesnt mean there cant be more.

News Credits: 226 · by **Burn** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:33 pm

If people believe that Jazz's death was pointless, then wouldn't bringing him back be even more pointless?

I mean they said he couldn't be fixed. Bringing him back would just make that line pointless as well and just give those who dislike the movie even more reason to criticise it.

Leave him dead.

by **Jazz Reborn** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:47 pm

burn,i dont like you. [-(

by **OptitronPrime** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:53 pm

why couldn't Bumblebee die he lived in the animated movie too. Oh no we can't kill off Bee because he bonds with the humans the most, oh kiss my arse so Spike rode inside him all the time that dosen't mean he's a good character he never did anything but Jazz was a good character because he actually did somethung besides drive Spike everywhere. Oh and how about they kill Bee have him come back as a VW Bug (camaros suck) and maybe he could be like Cliffjumper or Goldbug and not be a useless load.