The Energon Pub

Name_Violation wrote:also i was thinking (insert joke here). maybe have a system of if a side wins x number of consecutive missions or wins a certain % of missions the sector becomes your sides, and have that give a boost like extra xp, or energon

You damn n00bs and not knowing the plans that have been tossed around for years.

I think what Kaiju was getting at though was how do you make it a long term appeal for a casual player -vs- a 18+ hour a day player.

Personally, and i've seen this in other games, is you some how have a play time limiter, for example you have x amount of energon per day, each deployment uses up that energon, once it's gone you have to wait until you generate some more.

"Full time" players will run out quicker while "Casual" players can space it out over the day.

Does it hurt the full time players? Yes.

Will it help balance between full time and casual and give a casual player a chance at the top? Yes.

That being said, it's an idea that's been shot down many times in the past but hey, I can keep hoping.

Burn wrote:

Name_Violation wrote:also i was thinking (insert joke here). maybe have a system of if a side wins x number of consecutive missions or wins a certain % of missions the sector becomes your sides, and have that give a boost like extra xp, or energon

You damn n00bs and not knowing the plans that have been tossed around for years.

I think what Kaiju was getting at though was how do you make it a long term appeal for a casual player -vs- a 18+ hour a day player.

Personally, and i've seen this in other games, is you some how have a play time limiter, for example you have x amount of energon per day, each deployment uses up that energon, once it's gone you have to wait until you generate some more.

"Full time" players will run out quicker while "Casual" players can space it out over the day.

Does it hurt the full time players? Yes.

Will it help balance between full time and casual and give a casual player a chance at the top? Yes.

That being said, it's an idea that's been shot down many times in the past but hey, I can keep hoping.

i see why that idea got shut down. i personally hate games that pull that bs. its annoying as hell. spending 20 minutes a day to be in first place hardly makes the victory seem worthwhile. its not hard work if litterally anybody can do it with minimal effort. its the price "casual" players pay.

and war doesnt take brakes for tea and crumpets.

Ideally you'd get a few hours rather than 20 mins. I know the sort of games you speak of and yes, they are annoying.

But one of the big problems this game has suffered over the years is the gap between upper level and lower level. It's a gap that quickly expands and has put a lot of new players off when they discover how hard it is to begin to level up while they watch upper levels raking in massive amounts of xp.

If we can slow that sort of problem down (elimination is impossible) then it's a start.

And who knows, with the map, we could distribute energon bonuses at random and give people an extra bit of play time.

Like I said, just tossing ideas out there, if anyone has anything better i'd love to hear it. 'cause you know, that's more helpful than quickly shooting something down.

Name_Violation wrote:what would necessarily change? maybe pick a spot on the map instead of click a mission? all it would really take. replace how we currently see/join missions with a map of cybertron, each sector is a mission. instead of "support the crackhead troops" or whatever the current missions are it becomes "attack/invade Darkmount". same principles as we have now but with a new skin.

but i'm probably way over simplifying. but it sounds simple enough

You're closer than you think N_V.

The missions will basically be just that, different sectors/zones and cities potentially offering different bonuses depending on terrain and zone ownership, but at it core it will be the same style misisons with a new skin and a revised generation structure.
Make no mistake though, this would be the core of the game, not the arena, which will be purely for the entertainment of the blood thirsty masses.


And speaking of the Arena, due to the fact that you just cant trust gamers on the internet [sic], It will have to have some kind of XP reduction based on it if you can chose your opponent. Otherwise its way too open for abuse between 2 players who could just farm each other (and lets not even begin to discuss the dual accounting problems that would bring) that's just a simple fact.

Other options for Arena rewards include
- a medals system that could show up on your characters team profile
- a separate 'gladiator' ranking system based on the arena for bragging rights
- a series of challenges or multiple arenas you have to defeat (as there could well be more than 1 of them on Cybertron)
or it could just be used as a gambling outlet to burn your energon...

But as Burn said, any ideas you guys have are welcomed. We have the programming know how and the keen, we just want to be sure we're putting it in roughly the right direction as so far Moggy has some damned good ideas.

(spoiler)
don't we potentially already have those same problems with dual accouts/ 2 players?
hell chronic and i spent many many hours ruthlessly pummeling eachother. all it takes is a realitively empty arena (/spoiler)

i like the idea of missions becoming more central. i wasn't always such an arena fan. its just where the xp is for me. the whole "limiting to 2 factions" thing would really help solve the prob i think.

no matter what side i pick i lose fun enemy's.

Ideally the arena should become nothing more than a "battle simulator". No xp or energon or other power ups gained (awards however sure fine). Use it to test new configurations or just settle grudge matches. Instant heal, no cr time necessary, hell have the battle timers only run 10 mins. Eliminate any gains and it'll deter people but it'll be great fun and a great change.

As far as missions go, what do people think about a "deploy blind" option? A lot of people like the arena because it's quick to deploy their troops, what if, on your registry screen you could select the bots you want to activate, and rather than activating them you simply have them deploy immediately.

If it's coded right the server can deploy them to the first available missions. You may be jumping into a severely outnumbered mission but you'd be deploying quickly.

Perhaps even having the cr chamber discounted for this sort of demployment may be more enticing as well.

I like the sound of that actually. Perhaps to assist the once or twice a day checking the site folks by allowing the bots to be auto-assigned to a region to defend for a set amount of time perhaps based on level or just a set timer. That way say I check before I head to work and set them in and at worst they only fulfill two missions and when I get home from work I just can send them back into a auto-random one or then pick and choose like normal to actually take offensive campaign style missions instead. A two fold way for a side to hold a zone even if their 24/7 players to not be relied upon for offense and defense mastery. Just my wooden nickels worth.

I like the auto deploy idea.

what about a "stay deployed till you die or leave" system? you join a zone, and fight till you drop. old people drop dead, ar pull guys out of missions. while it would seem great for like 10 people on one side to sit and act as blockers, it lets reinforcements show up when ever. Basically constantly running untimmeed missions. we ain't sittin in combat with stop watches. maybe if your faction has control of the zone, you can get a 10% heal every so often.

just tryin to add some more input.

also, any chance of not starting with totally blank slates? basically the idea of start with x number of stat points to spend.

and while i've traditionally not liked the idea of the arena being screwed with, something close to what burn said wouldn't be horrible. kinda like the idea of having a battle simulator in help or something. maybe use the idea for that and hold off on an actual arena untill a later "expansion". since its not the focus of the game, put it on the back burner for a while.

i don't want bragging rights. i want POWER!

Name_Violation wrote:i don't want bragging rights. i want POWER!

And you would gain that power through the Map Missions.

Missions have ALWAYS been intended to be the focus of this game. Take a look around at other free net games, how many of them have you joining a faction by default and relying on team mates? Sure you can join guilds in the other games and have team mates but HMW works in a different way.

Hence why missions is the focus, to add that difference. Arena battles come down to solo competition, and as someone who's always been a big advocate of the arena simply because I know how much better it is to earn the xp, I also know how much it detracts from the main focus of the game.

Hence why it needs to be changed to make it less desirable and make the missions the focus, but also keeping the arena around as an option.

Now onto the whole "deploying for x amount of time". Should there be a limit on how long you can do this? It just reminds me of Scrapper and his brother Macro who would deploy to the arena 24/7 and never touch his computer for weeks.

Burn wrote:Now onto the whole "deploying for x amount of time". Should there be a limit on how long you can do this? It just reminds me of Scrapper and his brother Macro who would deploy to the arena 24/7 and never touch his computer for weeks.

How does that work? how do you deploy 24/7 and not touch the comp? psychic powers?

Basically i think we should station troups in a sector, and they stay till we call them back/ they die. their health will get depleted by constant assualts and if a place is too fortified the opponents basically need to act as a team and all attack at once. basically in mid fight, holy crap more of them show up. crap i'm gunned down. off to cr. hey look now my reinforcements show up. little later i'm back. redeploy.

the down sid would be no/little healing while stationed. eventually you will die.

Name_Violation wrote:How does that work? how do you deploy 24/7 and not touch the comp? psychic powers?

See how I said "Scrapper and his brother Macro"? Yeah, that's the short story.

The long story was a player called Scrapper would often be found waiting in the arena, often 24/7 and when there were opponents sitting on the other side.

Early coding saw actions defined by url's. Copy and paste them into a internet macro program and set them to run every half hour or so and you could have your troops automatically activate and deploy to the arena in "wait" mode.

And because he didn't check his troops much he rarely levelled up so he would often have level 5 capable bots sitting at level 2.

It was this guy that lead to the introduction of capcha images, tick boxes and level limits as well as a change to the code so you couldn't copy and paste url's.

Basically i think we should station troups in a sector, and they stay till we call them back/ they die. their health will get depleted by constant assualts and if a place is too fortified the opponents basically need to act as a team and all attack at once. basically in mid fight, holy crap more of them show up. crap i'm gunned down. off to cr. hey look now my reinforcements show up. little later i'm back. redeploy.

the down sid would be no/little healing while stationed. eventually you will die.

So let me simplify this and throw it out there.

As a casual player you will be able to ...

• Activate your bots in defensive mode
• Deploy your bots with the following options
- Deploy until stasis locked
- Deploy for x amount of time (if you know you're only going to be gone for say 3 hours)
- Deploy until your health reaches x amount
- With options for automatic or manual cr chamber

How's that sound? I would personally only allow it for x amount of time or until your stasis locked. Once you're in the cr chamber and fully healed the player again needs to set up the deployment. Otherwise you'd have someone playing on auto which we do NOT want as players should be checking on their bots and doing something with them on a regular basis.

Burn wrote:
So let me simplify this and throw it out there.

As a casual player you will be able to ...

• Activate your bots in defensive mode
• Deploy your bots with the following options
- Deploy until stasis locked
- Deploy for x amount of time (if you know you're only going to be gone for say 3 hours)
- Deploy until your health reaches x amount
- With options for automatic or manual cr chamber

How's that sound? I would personally only allow it for x amount of time or until your stasis locked. Once you're in the cr chamber and fully healed the player again needs to set up the deployment. Otherwise you'd have someone playing on auto which we do NOT want as players should be checking on their bots and doing something with them on a regular basis.

actually that sounds right. pretty damn right. especially if the quick dump option puts you on defense.

also, has there been any talks of what stats will do/ how they will work in the new version? Like str adds to melee damage, maybe have int give more xp, skill determins weapons available, ect.

Name_Violation wrote:also, has there been any talks of what stats will do/ how they will work in the new version? Like str adds to melee damage, maybe have int give more xp, skill determins weapons available, ect.

Yes. Yes there has.

Burn wrote:

Name_Violation wrote:also, has there been any talks of what stats will do/ how they will work in the new version? Like str adds to melee damage, maybe have int give more xp, skill determins weapons available, ect.

Yes. Yes there has.

Does that mean that repair will be a viable tactic *IF* it's a tactic at all?

If it is, then ALL HAIL MOGWAI PRIME!

Repair *IS* a viable tactic. But becuase of people exploiting it in the arena, it cant self heal, and therefore is useless for the arena. Before the last reset, myself, JP, Tammuz, and a lot of others raked in the XP with high level medics. The problem with it right now is no bugger will atend the missions (if your a beast faction member) and that it is too expensive to make work before level 3.

Until the missions became utterly deserted (on both sides) Opeth was raking it in this time round, as was Universal Migrator (who is no longer a medic).

Anyway, back to the subject at hand, I like this idea of auto-deploy, and I'd like to add my 2 pence.

I agree there shouldnt be a 'time limit' as such. Infact it should be easy enough to set up the 'defensive' thing to be exactly like the arena waiting que, but without the being dumped out of it after a battle reguardless of victory. The only problem I forsee is this: You put 6 of your charecters in the defence que of a sector, then an oposing faction attacks that sector. Dose it pull all 6 of your charecters, or does it just drag one out, even if it's outnumbered?

Personally, I've always liked the idea of being allowed to use our teams as... well teams. Ive seen the arguments time and again, but maybe, with a new game, it could be time to try and work it into the game. If we have less missions with bigger soldier limits, then it's harder to exploit than it would be if you filled an entire mission with your team. Even if we are limited to say, 3 members of one team in each mission, it'd be an improvment.

You know, Im really liking the sound of most of there idea guys, If implemented with the right balance 2.0 could be something to really look forward to.

I especially liked the staying in the field until you die and maybe new signups starting with a point or two to spend. Things like that might help get a few extra players hooked.

Xitamysda wrote:and maybe new signups starting with a point or two to spend.

Oh dear god yes. These kind of psudo RPG online games tend to be a bit tedious anyway upon start up, it'd help an aweful lot if new charecters had some xp to playwith upon creation, especilly since this game tends to take a long time to earn xp.

Redimus GTS wrote:Repair *IS* a viable tactic. But becuase of people exploiting it in the arena, it cant self heal, and therefore is useless for the arena. Before the last reset, myself, JP, Tammuz, and a lot of others raked in the XP with high level medics. The problem with it right now is no bugger will atend the missions (if your a beast faction member) and that it is too expensive to make work before level 3.

Until the missions became utterly deserted (on both sides) Opeth was raking it in this time round, as was Universal Migrator (who is no longer a medic).

Anyway, back to the subject at hand, I like this idea of auto-deploy, and I'd like to add my 2 pence.

I agree there shouldnt be a 'time limit' as such. Infact it should be easy enough to set up the 'defensive' thing to be exactly like the arena waiting que, but without the being dumped out of it after a battle reguardless of victory. The only problem I forsee is this: You put 6 of your charecters in the defence que of a sector, then an oposing faction attacks that sector. Dose it pull all 6 of your charecters, or does it just drag one out, even if it's outnumbered?

Personally, I've always liked the idea of being allowed to use our teams as... well teams. Ive seen the arguments time and again, but maybe, with a new game, it could be time to try and work it into the game. If we have less missions with bigger soldier limits, then it's harder to exploit than it would be if you filled an entire mission with your team. Even if we are limited to say, 3 members of one team in each mission, it'd be an improvment.

Seeing as how I very rarely play in the arena, repair is useless to me and i have a while before I get a level 3.....so it would be nice if repair was decent right out of the gate.

I'm glad repair isn't a self heal, that would make repairers nigh hard to defeat! I personally never saw ratchet/perceptor/hoist/first aid fix THEMSELVES in the G1 continuity.

Just my .02

Redimus GTS wrote:

Xitamysda wrote:and maybe new signups starting with a point or two to spend.

Oh dear god yes. These kind of psudo RPG online games tend to be a bit tedious anyway upon start up, it'd help an aweful lot if new charecters had some xp to playwith upon creation, especilly since this game tends to take a long time to earn xp.

There will be a possiblity of 1000 stat points in the game so starting with a few points will probably happen.

are we keeping the all existing stats, or are some going the way of the dodo?

Bloodlust wrote:

Redimus GTS wrote:Repair *IS* a viable tactic. But becuase of people exploiting it in the arena, it cant self heal, and therefore is useless for the arena. Before the last reset, myself, JP, Tammuz, and a lot of others raked in the XP with high level medics. The problem with it right now is no bugger will atend the missions (if your a beast faction member) and that it is too expensive to make work before level 3.

Until the missions became utterly deserted (on both sides) Opeth was raking it in this time round, as was Universal Migrator (who is no longer a medic).

Anyway, back to the subject at hand, I like this idea of auto-deploy, and I'd like to add my 2 pence.

I agree there shouldnt be a 'time limit' as such. Infact it should be easy enough to set up the 'defensive' thing to be exactly like the arena waiting que, but without the being dumped out of it after a battle reguardless of victory. The only problem I forsee is this: You put 6 of your charecters in the defence que of a sector, then an oposing faction attacks that sector. Dose it pull all 6 of your charecters, or does it just drag one out, even if it's outnumbered?

Personally, I've always liked the idea of being allowed to use our teams as... well teams. Ive seen the arguments time and again, but maybe, with a new game, it could be time to try and work it into the game. If we have less missions with bigger soldier limits, then it's harder to exploit than it would be if you filled an entire mission with your team. Even if we are limited to say, 3 members of one team in each mission, it'd be an improvment.

Seeing as how I very rarely play in the arena, repair is useless to me and i have a while before I get a level 3.....so it would be nice if repair was decent right out of the gate.

I'm glad repair isn't a self heal, that would make repairers nigh hard to defeat! I personally never saw ratchet/perceptor/hoist/first aid fix THEMSELVES in the G1 continuity.

Just my .02

If you put in your 2 cents and I give you a penny for your thoughts, what happens to the other penny? It goes in MUH pocket!!

Anyways repair will be a viable tactic in this game it just may appear in a different way

Name_Violation wrote:are we keeping the all existing stats, or are some going the way of the dodo?

Same stats for now.

Mogwai Prime wrote:

Redimus GTS wrote:

Xitamysda wrote:and maybe new signups starting with a point or two to spend.

Oh dear god yes. These kind of psudo RPG online games tend to be a bit tedious anyway upon start up, it'd help an aweful lot if new charecters had some xp to playwith upon creation, especilly since this game tends to take a long time to earn xp.

There will be a possiblity of 1000 stat points in the game so starting with a few points will probably happen.

OMFG that's a lot of stats!

The combinations are endless! Yay!!!!

Will intelligence work? For the characters, I know some board members need a couple of stat points.....YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!
sorry, on a Full Throttle energy rush and I KNOW I could use some points in intel

An idea that I've heard before, can't remember if it is mine or not, is make it so there is a way for players to "dump" their team into a pool that is used to fill out missions basically fast response troops. Maybe as a penalty have them show up late in the fight? This will allow those people who want to log on go to a screen, select all ,enter (basically what the arena currently is if you have auto CR)then log off to continue whatever they were doing (writing a paper, doing HW, working ect).

What do people think of this idea?