The Energon Pub

I guess you could draw some sort of diagram of G1ishness (though how you would farm the data points to do that I don't have a clue).

But IDW isn't especially close to G1 In my opinion - it has a lot more different than it has in common - almost every single character has a bio/personality completely distinct from either the Transformers Universe Marvel Bio or the toy techspecs or the general idea of the character you'd get from watching the TV show/1980's Movie - and often the reasons for those changes can be seen as a little thin.

I would cite Blaster as someone with PDSA or Sniper Perceptor as a couple of examples of major distinctions from 'Traditional G1'.

It's fine to give characters other motivations and relationships - but I personally wouldn't always want to put those motivation on to them retrospectively unless doing so adds something to the character than they'd otherwise be less for having - so with that in mind I'm perfectly OK with the retconed Backstory elements for Skywarp & Thundercracker.

But my point is take Kiss Players or even Alternity - they both take an established starting point and they then go off in a bonkers direction from there on - where as IDW (and indeed the classicverse) instead have different starting points or points of divergence to them that makes me see them more akin to being another unique Universe like Transformers Prime, AEC, or Transformers Animated.

Sure they share some characteristics and principles with other continuities but only for me in broad brush strokes.

But that isn't a bad thing it means if a 3rd party makes a toy of some random contempary comic Decepticon I can still add him in with the likes of Straxus as a "City Commander" type without having to bother myself overly with the aspects of IDW that are best actively ignored if you want to continue to maintain any respect for your beloved characters going forwards.

*Ultra Magnus I'm looking at you.

RAR, what you don't seem to know or understand is that everyone involved with the IDW Transformers stories, be it the comic production team themselves or Hasbro, basically says it's a G1 universe. Authorial Intent. End of story.

Wolfman Jake wrote:RAR, what you don't seem to know or understand is that everyone involved with the IDW Transformers stories, be it the comic production team themselves or Hasbro, basically says it's a G1 universe. Authorial Intent. End of story.

This can easily be backed up by any tf wiki page. Take tailgate for instance:

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Tailgate_(G1)

Here are the headings:


Contents [hide]
1 Fiction
1.1 Generation 1 cartoon continuity
1.1.1 Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers manga
1.1.2 The Transformers cartoon
1.1.3 Wings Universe
1.2 Marvel Comics continuity
1.2.1 Marvel The Transformers comics
1.2.2 Regeneration One
1.3 Dreamwave Generation One continuity
1.4 IDW Generation 1 continuity
1.4.1 Prevenge
1.5 Transformers Legends comic

RAR wrote:I guess you could draw some sort of diagram of G1ishness (though how you would farm the data points to do that I don't have a clue).

But IDW isn't especially close to G1 In my opinion - it has a lot more different than it has in common - almost every single character has a bio/personality completely distinct from either the Transformers Universe Marvel Bio or the toy techspecs or the general idea of the character you'd get from watching the TV show/1980's Movie - and often the reasons for those changes can be seen as a little thin.

I would cite Blaster as someone with PDSA or Sniper Perceptor as a couple of examples of major distinctions from 'Traditional G1'.

It's fine to give characters other motivations and relationships - but I personally wouldn't always want to put those motivation on to them retrospectively unless doing so adds something to the character than they'd otherwise be less for having - so with that in mind I'm perfectly OK with the retconed Backstory elements for Skywarp & Thundercracker.

But my point is take Kiss Players or even Alternity - they both take an established starting point and they then go off in a bonkers direction from there on - where as IDW (and indeed the classicverse) instead have different starting points or points of divergence to them that makes me see them more akin to being another unique Universe like Transformers Prime, AEC, or Transformers Animated.

Sure they share some characteristics and principles with other continuities but only for me in broad brush strokes.

But that isn't a bad thing it means if a 3rd party makes a toy of some random contempary comic Decepticon I can still add him in with the likes of Straxus as a "City Commander" type without having to bother myself overly with the aspects of IDW that are best actively ignored if you want to continue to maintain any respect for your beloved characters going forwards.

*Ultra Magnus I'm looking at you.

It's a more contemporary ( well that Robert's guy) take on G1 over the 80s style G1 I'd grant you that. Heck,they even turned another iconic hero into a religious fanatic! cough cough Starsaber so you are free to ignore it (as much as I do)

The modern versions of several characters make for great collectibles (only thing weird is that Hb still hasn't upsized that Legend/Legion IDW Optimus Prime yet).

fenrir72 wrote: (only thing weird is that Hb still hasn't upsized that Legend/Legion IDW Optimus Prime yet.

I beg to differ:

Kinda confused here. Are we trying to say IDW is not G1? Cause that is false. IDW is a G1 universe, just a different version. Just like classics, Dreamwave, marvel, TV and the such. They all use original characters, just in different capacities, almost as different "what if" situations. So saying IDW Swerve is different from G1 Swerve is ok, but saying IDW Swerve is not G1 is unfair, as he is, and he is based on the original. Now, a movie Swerve would be vastly different, as would a Prime Swerve, since they are from series that are supposed to deviate from the characters, designs and purpose that we all know of, and use completely different stories and aesthetics. In short: IDW is as G1 as Marvel, but as a new take, a reboot even.

And $100-120 for G2 colored Superion is very fair. At retail, that would be (in american $) $94.94 individually, and these guys are a set that includes a limited release character as well as new limited edition paint scheme, so it is very fair.

IDW is not G1. Its an entirely different universe and storyline that happens to include G1-styled characters. Changing the setting, personalities of characters and incorporating non-G1 characters into the story - its no longer recognisably G1. Thats not to say its bad - IDW is awesome and they've really created something special thats a world apart from the saturday-am styled cartoons and comics of the 80s.

The clue, for me - is in the name - Generation1. Its the first generation of Transformers. We've had other generations (literally) of fans grow up with other series and IDW is just another one on the line.

So what happens if the G2 Defensor set has Groove, but the regular colors don't get released here? Do we riot? Party anyways because G2 is better than no G at all?

ScottyP wrote:So what happens if the G2 Defensor set has Groove, but the regular colors don't get released here? Do we riot? Party anyways because G2 is better than no G at all?

Party anyways because G2 is better than no G at all

No G < G2 < OG

ScottyP wrote:So what happens if the G2 Defensor set has Groove, but the regular colors don't get released here? Do we riot? Party anyways because G2 is better than no G at all?

WE celebrate that we got the mold. That would be a total win for us

Amelie wrote:IDW is not G1. Its an entirely different universe and storyline that happens to include G1-styled characters.

Then which Transformers universe in the 1980's is the "G1" universe to you? The Sunbow cartoon? The Marvel comic book series? The character biographies on the back of the toy packages? All of these represented characters very differently from one another, including some characters not found in the others, and put the characters into different situations and scenarios totally incompatible with other concurrent Transformers media. If IDW's current ongoing Transformers series had begun back in the 1980's, it would not stick out at all, honestly. The only thing that separates IDW from the rest of the Generation 1 suite of universes is a few decades. That's a very spurious reason to draw the distinctions you do.

Wolfman Jake wrote:Then which Transformers universe in the 1980's is the "G1" universe to you? [...] The only thing that separates IDW from the rest of the Generation 1 suite of universes is a few decades. That's a very spurious reason to draw the distinctions you do.

Thats the main distinction, Jake - Time. The last point I made was about different generations.

There is a huge difference between how IDW and Marvel US handled things. Whilst some events are different - major events, threads and ideas are still the same. Lets not forget that Bud Budainsky, a Marvel US writer actually wrote the original character biographies. Even Marvel UK made refereces to the cartoon (Simon Furman even putting see:Transformers:The Movie as footnotes).

And then, in terms of toys... we have the toys...

"Transformers" ended once and we had Beast Wars. A different generation. Beast Wars ends and we have RID ect ect.... each time you can spot these switches from a mile off, too.

Its just personal preference at the end of the day

Amelie wrote:

Wolfman Jake wrote:Then which Transformers universe in the 1980's is the "G1" universe to you? [...] The only thing that separates IDW from the rest of the Generation 1 suite of universes is a few decades. That's a very spurious reason to draw the distinctions you do.

Thats the main distinction, Jake - Time. The last point I made was about different generations.

There is a huge difference between how IDW and Marvel US handled things. Whilst some events are different - major events, threads and ideas are still the same. Lets not forget that Bud Budainsky, a Marvel US writer actually wrote the original character biographies. Even Marvel UK made refereces to the cartoon (Simon Furman even putting see:Transformers:The Movie as footnotes).

And then, in terms of toys... we have the toys...

"Transformers" ended once and we had Beast Wars. A different generation. Beast Wars ends and we have RID ect ect.... each time you can spot these switches from a mile off, too.

Its just personal preference at the end of the day

Again, though, time isn't the great distinction in fiction you think it is. Take a look at the recent limited "Re-Generation One" comics, that were a deliberate continuation of the Marvel comics Transformers stories. It was decades in between the end of the Marvel run and the start of Re-Generation One. That doesn't make the stories created later any less a part of the G1 multiverse. Also, again, authorial intent is not on your side. You can prefer to believe IDW isn't a G1 universe all you want, but the people who actual make it don't agree with you.

Wolfman Jake wrote:Again, though, time isn't the great distinction in fiction you think it is. Take a look at the recent limited "Re-Generation One" comics, that were a deliberate continuation of the Marvel comics Transformers stories. It was decades in between the end of the Marvel run and the start of Re-Generation One. That doesn't make the stories created later any less a part of the G1 multiverse. Also, again, authorial intent is not on your side. You can prefer to believe IDW isn't a G1 universe all you want, but the people who actual make it don't agree with you.

Time is also screwy with toys. G1 Crosscut came out in 2002:

So, back on topic for this thread, what is going to happen as far as a G2 Defensor set? Superion and Menasor have been confirmed and Bruticus has been confirmed/leaked as well. But, we don't have any information about a G2 Defensor. Is the hold up the use of Rook in place of a deluxed sized groove for Defensor? Superion and Menasor are using the G1/G2 rosters for the Aerialbots and Stunticons thanks to the existence of Hasbro's "Quickslinger" and "Brake-Neck" molds. Bruticus has the original Combaticon roster as well, even if Blast Off has a different alt mode, so is the Rook issue holding G2 Defensor back? Maybe Hasbro is trying to decide if they will invest in a limited release of Takara's deluxe UW Groove after all? If that doesn't come to pass, will fans be okay with a "G2 Rook" colored like G2 Groove?

I would hedge a bet that they are trying to do the G2 sets using original rosters only, and that's why Defensor has nothing yet considering they can't really put Groove in until they get the UW Groove. So it's possible we will get him, but not for a while at least. G2 Rook still would be pretty cool nonetheless

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:I would hedge a bet that they are trying to do the G2 sets using original rosters only, and that's why Defensor has nothing yet considering they can't really put Groove in until they get the UW Groove. So it's possible we will get him, but not for a while at least. G2 Rook still would be pretty cool nonetheless

Oh I am pretty certain this is the case. Which means either we get Defensor with deluxe Groove or not at all.

william-james88 wrote:

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:I would hedge a bet that they are trying to do the G2 sets using original rosters only, and that's why Defensor has nothing yet considering they can't really put Groove in until they get the UW Groove. So it's possible we will get him, but not for a while at least. G2 Rook still would be pretty cool nonetheless

Oh I am pretty certain this is the case. Which means either we get Defensor with deluxe Groove or not at all.

Which, despite only being in G2 colors, it would be nice for some collectors to get a whole default Defensor. But at the same time, these box sets have been including the sixth figure, so if Groove were used as a limb, who would the 6th be?

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:I would hedge a bet that they are trying to do the G2 sets using original rosters only, and that's why Defensor has nothing yet considering they can't really put Groove in until they get the UW Groove. So it's possible we will get him, but not for a while at least. G2 Rook still would be pretty cool nonetheless

Oh I am pretty certain this is the case. Which means either we get Defensor with deluxe Groove or not at all.

Which, despite only being in G2 colors, it would be nice for some collectors to get a whole default Defensor. But at the same time, these box sets have been including the sixth figure, so if Groove were used as a limb, who would the 6th be?

Override?

william-james88 wrote:

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:I would hedge a bet that they are trying to do the G2 sets using original rosters only, and that's why Defensor has nothing yet considering they can't really put Groove in until they get the UW Groove. So it's possible we will get him, but not for a while at least. G2 Rook still would be pretty cool nonetheless

Oh I am pretty certain this is the case. Which means either we get Defensor with deluxe Groove or not at all.

Which, despite only being in G2 colors, it would be nice for some collectors to get a whole default Defensor. But at the same time, these box sets have been including the sixth figure, so if Groove were used as a limb, who would the 6th be?

Override?

I think it's more likely that they'll give deluxe groove a new identity than legends groove simply for the fact that legends groove is already an established member of the newest version of Defensor unlike the deluxe mold.

william-james88 wrote:

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:I would hedge a bet that they are trying to do the G2 sets using original rosters only, and that's why Defensor has nothing yet considering they can't really put Groove in until they get the UW Groove. So it's possible we will get him, but not for a while at least. G2 Rook still would be pretty cool nonetheless

Oh I am pretty certain this is the case. Which means either we get Defensor with deluxe Groove or not at all.

Which, despite only being in G2 colors, it would be nice for some collectors to get a whole default Defensor. But at the same time, these box sets have been including the sixth figure, so if Groove were used as a limb, who would the 6th be?

Override?

G2 Override. That would be a story to tell

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:I would hedge a bet that they are trying to do the G2 sets using original rosters only, and that's why Defensor has nothing yet considering they can't really put Groove in until they get the UW Groove. So it's possible we will get him, but not for a while at least. G2 Rook still would be pretty cool nonetheless

Oh I am pretty certain this is the case. Which means either we get Defensor with deluxe Groove or not at all.

Which, despite only being in G2 colors, it would be nice for some collectors to get a whole default Defensor. But at the same time, these box sets have been including the sixth figure, so if Groove were used as a limb, who would the 6th be?

Override?

G2 Override. That would be a story to tell

I've been saying it all along, groove and bigroove

But I agree, all the sets get the sixth figure, and defensor's is legends groove, so if they really are waiting for all the right limbs, then they do need to reconcile the two grooves issue

This has gotten the boards speculating quite a bit so it is only fair we clue all you fans in on this finding. Since November, e-bay seller Lena81822 has been selling a never before seen version of the Classics Optimus Prime mold. This China based seller has been known to sell official factory extras in the past, and has had less to sell since the factories moved to Vietnam for 2015's products.



As can be seen, this version contains details never seen before on any previous version, such as the giant Autobot symbol on the roof. While the unpainted clear plastic may hint that this is an unfinished product, this seller has sold test copies in the past, the same painted roof and painted guns show otherwise. There was a clear version of this mold (seen below) but the clear plastic in the front was red and not blue like this version. Is this a product that has yet to see release? Or an unannounced edition that has since been canceled after some were already produced?



Let us know what you think! For those interested, these are still being auctioned (with free shipping) and the average selling price is 40-50$.

My bet is on a Zodiac calendar release though Primal may have counted for the Prime his year.

Looks like a prototype of the original... Most of the details line up exactly to that, the only difference being that the sides of the truck aren't painted. The large Autobot badge is peculiar, though...