The Energon Pub

When did the weapons change again, Direct-Current Electrical Laser Firepower: 3, Skill: 2 light to incredible damage. When did it become light to incredible?

While the game was down Caelus did some fiddling.

So if anyone finds any problems with the weapons or doesn't like how they've been fiddled with, blame Caelus.

Burn wrote:While the game was down Caelus did some fiddling.

Seemed like the best time to make changes.

So if anyone finds any problems with the weapons or doesn't like how they've been fiddled with, blame Caelus.

Da.

Caelus wrote:

So if anyone finds any problems with the weapons or doesn't like how they've been fiddled with, blame Caelus.

Da.

*shakes fist* dammit I still hadn't recovered from the Battle Blades being nerfed!

Yeah and no one sees the guy that was responsible for THAT screw up.

Nice knowing you Caelus.
I kid. It wasn't nice. hehehe

Looks at Gatling and M-Blade... Runs away...

yeag BAAD CAELUS! who told you to balance the weapons so that their damage relected the stats needed to weild them?!


now people might even have to invest in skill!

Tammuz wrote:yeag BAAD CAELUS! who told you to balance the weapons so that their damage relected the stats needed to weild them?!


now people might even have to invest in skill!

But then why was the Fusion Cannon reduced also to L-I? If something, that weapon needs an upgrade better than a downgrade...

Now the best weapon is the Acid Rainmaker Rifle (9/4) with VH-I damage

Chaoslock wrote:

Tammuz wrote:yeag BAAD CAELUS! who told you to balance the weapons so that their damage relected the stats needed to weild them?!

But then why was the Fusion Cannon reduced also to L-I? If something, that weapon needs an upgrade better than a downgrade...

I will say this - "Incredible" is a horrendously vague term for anything greater than "Devastating".

Chaoslock wrote:

Tammuz wrote:yeag BAAD CAELUS! who told you to balance the weapons so that their damage relected the stats needed to weild them?!


now people might even have to invest in skill!

But then why was the Fusion Cannon reduced also to L-I? If something, that weapon needs an upgrade better than a downgrade...

Now the best weapon is the Acid Rainmaker Rifle (9/4) with VH-I damage

Page 1 of Tammuz's guide to how to kill, maim, slaughter, cripple, and Destroy

yes the main tables out of date, but all of my text is still good.

Tammuz wrote:...
Page 1 of Tammuz's guide to how to kill, maim, slaughter, cripple, and Destroy

yes the main tables out of date, but all of my text is still good.

Information

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not fair

EDIT:

i looked at the weapon pages, WTH happened there?!?!?!

Tifereth wrote:i looked at the weapon pages, WTH happened there?!?!?!

Caelus happened!. Duh! Pay attention!

I have to wonder though, are we at a stage where short of a complete overhaul, weapons won't be changed again?

It just seems that every time one weapon becomes popular the powers that be come along and neuter it. So another weapon is found and it becomes popular and it too is neutered.

Are we going to have a repeat of that again now?

I better go back to Vibro Axe, i doubt it'd be changed anytime soon

Burn wrote:I have to wonder though, are we at a stage where short of a complete overhaul, weapons won't be changed again?

It just seems that every time one weapon becomes popular the powers that be come along and neuter it. So another weapon is found and it becomes popular and it too is neutered.

Are we going to have a repeat of that again now?

Well, short of a new programmer showing up and completely overhauling the system, I see three possibilities from here on out:

1) Do what Tammuz and others want, and set all Recharge rates to the same thing.

2) Come up with some sort of system for correlating Recharge Rates to Damage - Go through and add a damage bonus (raise the minimum and maximum damage values) dependent on the weapon's recharge. Arguably, this could never be balanced, only approximated.

3) Do nothing.

The change we made was an improvement, rather than a solution. The weapons are essentially less broken now but still not fixed per se, since the recharge rates still make some weapons far more valuable than others.

See under the current system (short of complete overhaul) I can see the sense in setting recharge rates the same across the board.

What needs to be changed however is the requirements need to be brought into line with the damage capabilities.

That being a level 3 shouldn't be able to access incredible/devestating weapons. And if they do then it'll cost them heaps and make them unviable.

Why? Well it's balancing in a way. At level 0 a slingshot should be capable of doing roughly the same amount of damage against another level 0 opponent as a level 10 wielding a Fusion Canon should do against another level 10 with maxed out armour and endurance.

All recharge rates do is make some weapons more popular than others I feel.

Burn wrote:What needs to be changed however is the requirements need to be brought into line with the damage capabilities.

That's exactly what I did.

Tammuz established the Median Damage for every FP/SKL combo, and then I changed all of the weapons to have their appropriate Median Damages.

The Damage Range can vary greatly from weapon to weapon (with cannons tending to have the largest spread and rifles the smallest), but the Median Damage of any two weapons with the same requirements is always the same.

----

Ah, I see, you're saying that the Median Damage for Low Req weapons should be lowered and the Median Damage for High Req weapons should be raised...

Well, problem there is, there isn't really a consistant way to make a change like that. You'd be getting into an exponential relationship (IIRC) versus a Linear Relationship. Then the people in the middle would probably be hosed.

And then there are other things to consider. Higher Level bots don't have innately more health than lower ones like they would in a traditional RPG. Instead, they tend to be tougher because of armor and endurance. That's two more variables to track. And then consider the fact that Higher Level bots don't just do more damage because they tend to use High Req Weapons, but also because they tend to have more Strength than Low Level bots.

If it was a simple matter of a lvl 0 bot has 100hp and a lvl 11 bot has 1200hp, then we could work it out so that higher level bots had weapons that could do 480 damage where lower level bots would have weapons that could do 40 damage. But that's not how it works. And even if it was, then we'd have to put actual level restrictions on weapons to keep someone from investing all their xp in FP/SKL, so that they could use a 480 damage weapon against opponents with 300hp.

So basically what you're saying is this. (With some hypothetical names)

Weapon Name - Slingshot
Damage range - (Weak) 1% - 5%
Requirements - Nil

Weapon Name - Fusion Canon
Damage range - (Massive) 80%-90%
Requirements - FP10/SK10

Would not be possible?

I don't see why hit points need to be introduced, at least not on the surface. Behind the scenes however they could be introduced through armours and endurance. However I was under the impression the current code did something like that.

basically burn, a 10/10 weapon with max str, against no end and no armour OHKs,

the weapons are now semi balanced(until either i get my way or mkall sorts the COF stuff out) brawling still beeds to be brought in linee

as does armour and endurance, end is not so bad, but amrour sucks, and since we don't know how stable cealus's armour CP is(OS thought it might crash the site, if he started doing stuff)

but yeah if we make it so that each point in an armour(STR and RNK) reduces NTA damage by the same amount we've used to boost weapons, we should get a similiar correlation to your sligshot/fusion cannon paradigm. fusion cannons with agaisnt 10 tonnes of rank 10 armour would do the same damage(on average) as a slingshot against an unarmoured opponent.

so basically burn, this is what me and cealus with out limited powers have been able to do, without risking crashing the site.

however what cealus can/needs do now is introduce even more weapons so that we have weapons for all 121 FRP/SKL stat combinations.

Tammuz wrote:however what cealus can/needs do now is introduce even more weapons so that we have weapons for all 121 FRP/SKL stat combinations.

If you give me a list of what combinations are missing, I'm 99% sure I can do that.

I've had some things I wanted to add anyway.

Tammuz wrote:basically burn, a 10/10 weapon with max str, against no end and no armour OHKs,

And I honestly don't see a problem with a level 9-11 being able to wipe out a level 0-1 in one move.

well really it's more like a level 4 being able to kill them in one hit since you'd only need a 10/10 weapon and 10str.


of course you'd be just as likely to be killed aswell; you might have a huge gun, but without endurance and armour, you're just as likely not to survive.

up till now you couldn't really build a defensive TF, armour and rank didn't give enough protection for the points needed, nw all the low stat weapons are now low powered, endurance matters and even though armour's a mess, you're gonna pay for neglecting it.

Tammuz wrote:well really it's more like a level 4 being able to kill them in one hit since you'd only need a 10/10 weapon and 10str.

Why does strength even have to be factored into it?

I don't see why weapon damage needs to be augmented by stats. Keep it simple. Weapon damage locked in while tactic damage is influenced by stats.

Burn wrote:

Tammuz wrote:well really it's more like a level 4 being able to kill them in one hit since you'd only need a 10/10 weapon and 10str.

Why does strength even have to be factored into it?

I don't see why weapon damage needs to be augmented by stats. Keep it simple. Weapon damage locked in while tactic damage is influenced by stats.

becuase frankly, me and cealus don't have the power to change that.


though it does make life a little simpler as we have three damage boosting stats for NTAs (STR,FRP,SKL) and three damage reduction stats(RNK,STR,END)

for V2 i had discussed with cealus and sprokits the possibility of having end and rank determine defence against weapons, and then weapons feeding off of two of STR, FRP, & SKL, so that while a Energon Crossbows would be fed by FRP & STR a sniper rifle would fed by FRP and SKLL, but things like swords and unarmed techniques would be fed by STR & SKLL

and yes it does make more str, but alas i can only advise variables, if new stuff needs to be coded then you've got to look to Mkall.

So the short answer is "that's how it's currently coded".

That's all I needed to know.

i know you love it when i get all technical.