The Energon Pub

[SlyTF1]

I also like how, at the time of the first one, Optimus Prime hadn't yet devolved into the bloodthirsty, face-stealing psychopath we now know him as.

Yeah, he hadn't quite gotten to taking faces yet, taking the whole of Bonecrusher's head off instead.

By ROTF, he settled for just the faces.

It's not a question of the method of killing, it's the question of frequency. You are what you repeatedly do. In the first one, Optimus decapitated but one Decepticon. In ROTF, he split Grindor's head in half, and also took off The Fallen's face. In DOTM, he brutally murdered a weakened Megatron and defenseless Sentinel Prime, both of whom ought to have been either taken prisoner or exiled. In AoE, he goes full berserk. He tears through a human facility with little to no regard for its workers, destroys thousands of dollars worth of research in the process, and ultimately holds up one of the higher-ranking employees at gunpoint. He then proceeds to storm savage Dinobots through Hong Kong and then set them loose on the world, which is supposed to be a happy ending but actually has horrifying implications.

Starting to see my point yet? This guy's slagging scary.

That's why I like him.

[Skywarp64]

It's not a question of the method of killing, it's the question of frequency. You are what you repeatedly do. In the first one, Optimus decapitated but one Decepticon. In ROTF, he split Grindor's head in half, and also took off The Fallen's face. In DOTM, he brutally murdered a weakened Megatron and defenseless Sentinel Prime, both of whom ought to have been either taken prisoner or exiled. In AoE, he goes full berserk. He tears through a human facility with little to no regard for its workers, destroys thousands of dollars worth of research in the process, and ultimately holds up one of the higher-ranking employees at gunpoint. He then proceeds to storm savage Dinobots through Hong Kong and then set them loose on the world, which is supposed to be a happy ending but actually has horrifying implications.

Starting to see my point yet? This guy's slagging scary.

That's why I like him.

Fine by me, psycho.

[megatronus]

It's not a question of the method of killing, it's the question of frequency. You are what you repeatedly do. In the first one, Optimus decapitated but one Decepticon. In ROTF, he split Grindor's head in half, and also took off The Fallen's face. In DOTM, he brutally murdered a weakened Megatron and defenseless Sentinel Prime, both of whom ought to have been either taken prisoner or exiled. In AoE, he goes full berserk. He tears through a human facility with little to no regard for its workers, destroys thousands of dollars worth of research in the process, and ultimately holds up one of the higher-ranking employees at gunpoint. He then proceeds to storm savage Dinobots through Hong Kong and then set them loose on the world, which is supposed to be a happy ending but actually has horrifying implications.

Starting to see my point yet? This guy's slagging scary.

That's why I like him.

Fine by me, psycho.

That seems... harsh.

Also, your FOC Skywarp is missing a paint app.

[SlyTF1]

It's not a question of the method of killing, it's the question of frequency. You are what you repeatedly do. In the first one, Optimus decapitated but one Decepticon. In ROTF, he split Grindor's head in half, and also took off The Fallen's face. In DOTM, he brutally murdered a weakened Megatron and defenseless Sentinel Prime, both of whom ought to have been either taken prisoner or exiled. In AoE, he goes full berserk. He tears through a human facility with little to no regard for its workers, destroys thousands of dollars worth of research in the process, and ultimately holds up one of the higher-ranking employees at gunpoint. He then proceeds to storm savage Dinobots through Hong Kong and then set them loose on the world, which is supposed to be a happy ending but actually has horrifying implications.

Starting to see my point yet? This guy's slagging scary.

That's why I like him.

Fine by me, psycho.

Thank you. It's King Psycho.

[Skywarp64]

Also, your FOC Skywarp is missing a paint app.

I'm aware.

[ZeroWolf]

Again I feel like I have to point out that hasbro and paramount are fine with this version of optimus prime...So are the kids for that matter

[Autobot032]

It's not a question of the method of killing, it's the question of frequency. You are what you repeatedly do. In the first one, Optimus decapitated but one Decepticon. In ROTF, he split Grindor's head in half, and also took off The Fallen's face. In DOTM, he brutally murdered a weakened Megatron and defenseless Sentinel Prime, both of whom ought to have been either taken prisoner or exiled. In AoE, he goes full berserk. He tears through a human facility with little to no regard for its workers, destroys thousands of dollars worth of research in the process, and ultimately holds up one of the higher-ranking employees at gunpoint. He then proceeds to storm savage Dinobots through Hong Kong and then set them loose on the world, which is supposed to be a happy ending but actually has horrifying implications.

Starting to see my point yet? This guy's slagging scary.

That's why I like him.

Fine by me, psycho.

That kind of behavior isn't necessary and isn't appreciated here, Skywarp. Please don't do that again. Sly's words speak for themselves and don't require judgment, he presents himself as he is. Labels just make the matter worse.

Now, back on topic, I'll address your post:

It's not a question of the method of killing, it's the question of frequency. You are what you repeatedly do.

So...every soldier is a cold, hardened killer? No. Sorry, but no. Scarred and damaged? Yes. Did it ever occur to you that Optimus wasn't always like this in the films? In the first one, he had to kill Bonecrusher. Bonecrusher ran through, and split in half, a bus full of people who most assuredly died. He flung cars full of people around on the highway. Prime stepped in and killed him when he had the chance. If it were a car chase and cops had to kill the driver before he killed anyone else, you don't think they'd take that shot? What about all the mobsters in the '20s? Cops shot them up like it was a shooting squad. Would one well placed round have done it? Sure. They got caught up in the moment and wasted full clips sometimes. Prime didn't even go that far. He got Bonecrusher away from the people and in a moment of battle, decapitated him with a good shot. I'd much rather he do that than allow Bonecrusher to mow down innocent people caught in the crosshairs.

In the first one, Optimus decapitated but one Decepticon. In ROTF, he split Grindor's head in half, and also took off The Fallen's face. In DOTM, he brutally murdered a weakened Megatron and defenseless Sentinel Prime, both of whom ought to have been either taken prisoner or exiled.

Grindor, I'll give you. That was straight up Bayhem.

As for The Fallen, I'm not sure what the heck it was, but I won't lie, I was so disgusted with The Fallen by that point that when Optimus killed him, I was kinda like "Hell yeah! We won!"

As for DOTM, I hate this part because no one is willing to look at it logically and correctly. Megatron wasn't all that weakened. He had a head wound, yes, but all those little scalpel bots were slowly repairing him, plus he had no problem beating the hell out of Sentinel before shooting him. Not all that weak, I'd say. It also further proves he can't be trusted. He worked with the guy, came up with this grand scheme and in the end, puts a bullet in his back and beats him so hard his helmet comes off. Why? Because he was going to kill his arch enemy for him. That's a pretty messed up guy. Also, people like to bring up the fact that he wanted a truce with Optimus, but how is that a truce? He wanted to rule and that's not a partnership, that's not a truce, that's exactly what G1 Megatron's techspec calls it: Peace through tyranny. That's no way to live, and you know it.

And Sentinel? He wasn't defenseless, not really. He was incredibly intelligent. Had he been given just a few moments more, he probably could've convinced Optimus with his words and his "honor". Prior to that, he made the Decepticons kill THOUSANDS at his command. On top of that? He killed Ironhide and was going to kill the rest of the Autobots because he KNEW they'd stand in his way. Defenseless? Hardly. When you've gone down the evil rabbit hole as Sentinel had, you're defenseless sure, but only in the he's completely indefensible way. There's no court on Earth that would allow him to live. Like any killer dictator, we sentence them to death. He would've been sentenced to death in a heartbeat. The humans wouldn't have even given him what Optimus did: A quick and easy death. We'd have torn him apart, slowly, painfully and then we would've experimented on him.

Wait a tick... WE DID. We used his brain and Megatron's to create more monsters, which leads me to:

In AoE, he goes full berserk. He tears through a human facility with little to no regard for its workers, destroys thousands of dollars worth of research in the process, and ultimately holds up one of the higher-ranking employees at gunpoint. He then proceeds to storm savage Dinobots through Hong Kong and then set them loose on the world, which is supposed to be a happy ending but actually has horrifying implications.

He raged out because his only friends and allies turned against him and started killing his own people. Not only that, they melted them down with nothing left. You know? He could've brought them back with the Matrix, but he wasn't given that chance. We took them from him and chopped them up and turned them into unGodly creations that had no right to exist. Let's say you had a pet cat or dog, and someone dug up that poor thing's carcass and reused it's rotting pieces to create a new cat or dog in their desired image. You'd not only be justifiably angry, but you'd be outright disgusted. What if they took someone's living pet, relative, friend, whatever they are to that person and killed them, then rebuilt them as something else? I think you'd lose it. I know I would. Why? That's horrible, it's disgusting, it's immoral and it's a level of evil no one should ever, ever cross. Yet, humanity did AND allowed it because the CIA/Cemetary Wind lied about it's efforts. Oh, and to do all of that over a fat payday? That's even lower.

This part?

He tears through a human facility with little to no regard for its workers, destroys thousands of dollars worth of research in the process, and ultimately holds up one of the higher-ranking employees at gunpoint.

He does indeed tear through the facility, but NO one died or was injured. In fact, Crosshairs told them all to leave and they did just that. He fired his weapon into the air, never once at a single human. Prime? He shot up the unGodly creations Joshua and his bastard team of scientists had played God with. The humans in the facility were never once in danger, the Autobots let ALL of them go, including Joshua. And you better believe he destroyed the research, it's immoral and inhuman. As for sticking the gun in Joshua's face? Yeah, he did, because he wanted to tell him where to stick it. He also said he'd kill the person responsible for all of this and technically, Joshua was just as dirty as Attinger, and Prime not only let him go, but ended up working with him to some degree and let him live without so much as a word after he got his point across. What really bothers me is you know WHERE that thousands of dollars of research came from and the fact that Optimus destroyed it is what bothers you. That's scary. It really is. Have you actually sat down and thought about that? You're okay with them killing Autobots like Leadfoot and Ratchet and melting them down to create those soulless KSI bots, but you're not okay with Optimus going on a much smaller kill streak in anger and in defense of us? That...*shudders* That's scary.

And finally, we come to this:

He then proceeds to storm savage Dinobots through Hong Kong and then set them loose on the world, which is supposed to be a happy ending but actually has horrifying implications.

Hong Kong was already shredded to pieces by Lockdown, Prime bring the Dinobots in as added muscle to help stop him was like throwing a pebble onto a mountain that had already been made out of a molehill. The Dinobots ran off, it's true, but after everything that's happened, there is ZERO reason to believe that they'll go and attack anyone or anything. They had the chance to go on a rampage when they left the docks, they could've trampled the people, instead, they ran off for the hills to be by themselves. If anything, they have the mindset of animals and just want to be left alone. Chances are we won't see them again in the film series and we won't hear about them causing any problems.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with most of your points. I'll give you Grindor, but the rest of it? No. Especially the research part. No joke? That sent a shiver up my spine when I read that. Should Prime kill all the time and with every chance he gets? Of course not, but should we do the same? No. And one thing you must remember, Prime's a soldier now, thanks to us. Do you have any idea what soldiers must go through in times of war? Did you ever study up on Vietnam? The Gulf War? The War On Terrorism? Any of it? The atrocities our soldiers committed were sometimes just as bad as the people they were fighting and sometimes worse, but you want to say Optimus is horrible for doing the same thing he was taught? That just sucks. Plain and simple.

Starting to see my point yet? This guy's slagging scary.

So are the people he defends us from. Let's do a quick run down, shall we?

-One beheading.
-Two faces ripped.
-Three injured Decepticons killed. (I'll count Sentinel among them, he was no Autobot.)
-Split Lockdown up the middle.

That's a FAR cry from a highway full of people (Bonecrusher), a village in the Middle East (The Fallen/Megatron), 3,000+ in Chicago (Sentinel/Megatron) and a city full of millions upon millions of people and priceless cultural relics (Lockdown). Oh and not to mention, nearly the remainder of his race wiped out by those he thought were friends and allies in a genocidal money making scheme. (Attinger/Joshua/KSI) Plus, in their egregious mindset of playing God, they (KSI) not only brought back one of the worst minds in history/the universe, they brought him back without a soul this time, so he has no fear and his body is better than ever, which will make him a REALLY tough target to kill. Plus, who knows which Autobots were used in his construction.

I'm going to give Optimus a solid pass, here. His killstreak PALES in comparison to those he stopped, in the effort to save us, even though we have no right to his protection.

He's a scary guy, huh? No, he has to do scary things because he's the one who has to get his hands dirty to save us, just like every other soldier, while we sit in judgement from afar and change the channel when we don't like it.

What's scary are the people who allow such atrocities to even happen in the first place. What's scary is the mindset that thousands of dollars of research and development are worth more than the lives it took.

[Rodimus Prime]

He worked with the guy, came up with this grand scheme and in the end, puts a bullet in his back and beats him so hard his helmet comes off. Why? Because he was going to kill his arch enemy for him.

I agree with all of your points, except for the above. Megatron didn't attack Sentinel to "protect" Optimus, or even to save the opportunity to kill Prime himself. He did it because Sentinel basically told him on top of the skyscraper that he wasn't in charge, when Megatron attempted to order him around. Remember the scene with "I agreed to work with you, not for you!" Sentinel even disrespected Megatron by grabbing him in the face and then shoving him. I know Megatron is a bad guy and we shouldn't care if he's disrespected, but he did. Also, surprisingly, this isn't in the movie (so it doesn't actually count) but before Sentinel leaped off the building to fight Optimus, he threw Megatron off. That's why Megatron was in that alley when Carly walked up to him and called him Sentinel's b**ch. It wasn't in the movie, but it (presumably) was in the script and in the book. I wish they had it in the movie, it would have been a good scene. Anyway, the only thing I fault Megatron for in attacking Sentinel is bad timing. He should have let Sentinel kill Optimus, then shoot him in the back and beat the crap out of him. Otherwise, you're on point with everything else you said.

[Sabrblade]

Hong Kong was already shredded to pieces by Lockdown,

No it wasn't. Lockdown wouldn't show up until much later.

The Hong Kong battle went like this:

• Joshua and Yueming fleeing from Cemetery Wind
• Galvatron and the KSI bots arrive
• The Autobots arrive and are shot down
• Savoy goes after the humans with the Seed and fights Cade
• Hound and Bumblebee start fighting the KSI bots
• Optimus awakens and coerces the Dinobots
• Hound, Bee, and Cade fight more KSI bots until Prime and the Dinobots arrive
• The Autobots and Dinobots tear through the city destroying 45 of the 50 KSI bots
• Bumblebee and Strafe fight and destroy one of those 45: Stinger
• The Autobots/Dinobots try to lead the humans with the Seed out of the city
• Lockdown's ship arrives and magnetically tears the city apart further
• Optimus destroys the magnetic vortex
• Optimus, Bumblebee, Cade, Tessa, and Shane engage and destroy Lockdown
• Optimus uses Lockdown's grenade to destroy the last 5 of the 50 KSI bots
• The Chinese military deals with Lockdown's ship/Galvatron walks away after having done nothing in the fight
• All our heroes regroup at the coast, the Dinobots leave, and Optimus blasts off

[Skywarp64]

That kind of behavior isn't necessary and isn't appreciated here, Skywarp. Please don't do that again. Sly's words speak for themselves and don't require judgment, he presents himself as he is. Labels just make the matter worse.

You're right, I'm sorry. Sometimes I get a little pissy when people defend Bayformers, but that's no excuse.

Now, back on topic, I'll address your post:

It's not a question of the method of killing, it's the question of frequency. You are what you repeatedly do.

So...every soldier is a cold, hardened killer? No. Sorry, but no. Scarred and damaged? Yes. Did it ever occur to you that Optimus wasn't always like this in the films? In the first one, he had to kill Bonecrusher. Bonecrusher ran through, and split in half, a bus full of people who most assuredly died. He flung cars full of people around on the highway. Prime stepped in and killed him when he had the chance. If it were a car chase and cops had to kill the driver before he killed anyone else, you don't think they'd take that shot? What about all the mobsters in the '20s? Cops shot them up like it was a shooting squad. Would one well placed round have done it? Sure. They got caught up in the moment and wasted full clips sometimes. Prime didn't even go that far. He got Bonecrusher away from the people and in a moment of battle, decapitated him with a good shot. I'd much rather he do that than allow Bonecrusher to mow down innocent people caught in the crosshairs.

I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear enough, but I excuse Optimus's dealing with Bonecrusher. That kill only bugs me a little bit, but I do agree that Bonecrusher had to die. I just think it could've been a tad less brutal, that's all.

In the first one, Optimus decapitated but one Decepticon. In ROTF, he split Grindor's head in half, and also took off The Fallen's face. In DOTM, he brutally murdered a weakened Megatron and defenseless Sentinel Prime, both of whom ought to have been either taken prisoner or exiled.

Grindor, I'll give you. That was straight up Bayhem.

As for The Fallen, I'm not sure what the heck it was, but I won't lie, I was so disgusted with The Fallen by that point that when Optimus killed him, I was kinda like "Hell yeah! We won!"

As for DOTM, I hate this part because no one is willing to look at it logically and correctly. Megatron wasn't all that weakened. He had a head wound, yes, but all those little scalpel bots were slowly repairing him, plus he had no problem beating the hell out of Sentinel before shooting him. Not all that weak, I'd say.

Then how come Optimus tore through him so easily? In the first film, their battle took a considerable amount of time and Optimus nearly lost before Sam saved the day. But here, he manages to kill Megatron within minutes. How is this possible unless Megatron was considerably weakened?

It also further proves he can't be trusted. He worked with the guy, came up with this grand scheme and in the end, puts a bullet in his back and beats him so hard his helmet comes off. Why? Because he was going to kill his arch enemy for him. That's a pretty messed up guy. Also, people like to bring up the fact that he wanted a truce with Optimus, but how is that a truce? He wanted to rule and that's not a partnership, that's not a truce, that's exactly what G1 Megatron's techspec calls it: Peace through tyranny. That's no way to live, and you know it.

I assure you I'm not one of those people. I fully realize that his offer for a truce was insincere. I prefer the book where it's perfectly sincere, but that's beside the point. The point is that, even if Megatron had to die, it should've at least been a tad more climactic than that.


Which I guess is a complaint more about the movie than Optimus's character... I'd better get back on track.

And Sentinel? He wasn't defenseless, not really. He was incredibly intelligent. Had he been given just a few moments more, he probably could've convinced Optimus with his words and his "honor". Prior to that, he made the Decepticons kill THOUSANDS at his command.

What does that prove? The Decepticons love to kill thousands.

On top of that? He killed Ironhide and was going to kill the rest of the Autobots because he KNEW they'd stand in his way. Defenseless? Hardly.

He certainly wasn't defenseless when he killed Ironhide, but at this point in the movie, he was. He was down for the count and certainly not getting up. If he was, he wouldn't have resorted to practically begging for mercy. Mercy which Optimus, as an Autobot, ought to have been perfectly willing to grant, but living on Earth has obviously driven him insane, which is what I object to.

When you've gone down the evil rabbit hole as Sentinel had, you're defenseless sure, but only in the he's completely indefensible way. There's no court on Earth that would allow him to live. Like any killer dictator, we sentence them to death. He would've been sentenced to death in a heartbeat.

Yeah, but when we sentence people to death, we kill them through humane methods like the lethal injection. We abandoned the firing squad years ago.

The humans wouldn't have even given him what Optimus did: A quick and easy death. We'd have torn him apart, slowly, painfully and then we would've experimented on him.

Wait a tick... WE DID. We used his brain and Megatron's to create more monsters, which leads me to:

So what? At that point, he was already dead and presumably couldn't feel anything.

In AoE, he goes full berserk. He tears through a human facility with little to no regard for its workers, destroys thousands of dollars worth of research in the process, and ultimately holds up one of the higher-ranking employees at gunpoint. He then proceeds to storm savage Dinobots through Hong Kong and then set them loose on the world, which is supposed to be a happy ending but actually has horrifying implications.

He raged out because his only friends and allies turned against him and started killing his own people. Not only that, they melted them down with nothing left. You know? He could've brought them back with the Matrix, but he wasn't given that chance. We took them from him and chopped them up and turned them into unGodly creations that had no right to exist. Let's say you had a pet cat or dog, and someone dug up that poor thing's carcass and reused its rotting pieces to create a new cat or dog in their desired image. You'd not only be justifiably angry, but you'd be outright disgusted. What if they took someone's living pet, relative, friend, whatever they are to that person and killed them, then rebuilt them as something else? I think you'd lose it. I know I would. Why? That's horrible, it's disgusting, it's immoral and it's a level of evil no one should ever, ever cross. Yet, humanity did AND allowed it because the CIA/Cemetary Wind lied about it's efforts. Oh, and to do all of that over a fat payday? That's even lower.

This part?

He tears through a human facility with little to no regard for its workers, destroys thousands of dollars worth of research in the process, and ultimately holds up one of the higher-ranking employees at gunpoint.

He does indeed tear through the facility, but NO one died or was injured. In fact, Crosshairs told them all to leave and they did just that. He fired his weapon into the air, never once at a single human. Prime? He shot up the unGodly creations Joshua and his **** team of scientists had played God with. The humans in the facility were never once in danger, the Autobots let ALL of them go, including Joshua. And you better believe he destroyed the research, it's immoral and inhuman. As for sticking the gun in Joshua's face? Yeah, he did, because he wanted to tell him where to stick it. He also said he'd kill the person responsible for all of this and technically, Joshua was just as dirty as Attinger, and Prime not only let him go, but ended up working with him to some degree and let him live without so much as a word after he got his point across.

What really bothers me is you know WHERE that thousands of dollars of research came from and the fact that Optimus destroyed it is what bothers you. That's scary. It really is. Have you actually sat down and thought about that? You're okay with them killing Autobots like Leadfoot and Ratchet and melting them down to create those soulless KSI bots, but you're not okay with Optimus going on a much smaller kill streak in anger and in defense of us? That...*shudders* That's scary.

@The Bold Part: What? Sorry, I thought you said not to do ad hominems.

Anyway, the reason Optimus's behavior still bugs me, despite the arguably worse behavior of the humans he threatens, is because Optimus has long been established as a stoic hero who doesn't succumb to such things, even if it is perfectly natural, and it bugs me when he breaks that character completely and even nearly becomes downright savage in the face of adversity. I know his stoicism wasn't always realistic, but I miss it' y'know?

And finally, we come to this:

He then proceeds to storm savage Dinobots through Hong Kong and then set them loose on the world, which is supposed to be a happy ending but actually has horrifying implications.

Hong Kong was already shredded to pieces by Lockdown, Prime bring the Dinobots in as added muscle to help stop him was like throwing a pebble onto a mountain that had already been made out of a molehill. The Dinobots ran off, it's true, but after everything that's happened, there is ZERO reason to believe that they'll go and attack anyone or anything. They had the chance to go on a rampage when they left the docks, they could've trampled the people, instead, they ran off for the hills to be by themselves. If anything, they have the mindset of animals and just want to be left alone. Chances are we won't see them again in the film series and we won't hear about them causing any problems.

Yes, but it isn't it thinkable that, with Optimus's supervision gone now that he's in space, they'll realize they no longer have a Knight around to obey? I suppose it's not guaranteed, but the implications are still chilling.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with most of your points. I'll give you Grindor, but the rest of it? No. Especially the research part. No joke? That sent a shiver up my spine when I read that. Should Prime kill all the time and with every chance he gets? Of course not, but should we do the same? No. And one thing you must remember, Prime's a soldier now, thanks to us. Do you have any idea what soldiers must go through in times of war? Did you ever study up on Vietnam? The Gulf War? The War On Terrorism? Any of it? The atrocities our soldiers committed were sometimes just as bad as the people they were fighting and sometimes worse, but you want to say Optimus is horrible for doing the same thing he was taught? That just sucks. Plain and simple.

I already explained this, but I'll explain it again. I don't hate this Optimus because he's realistic, I hate him because he's so contrary to the stoicism of previous Primes, which could be unrealistic but which is so established that this version bothers me with its lack of stoicism.

Starting to see my point yet? This guy's slagging scary.

So are the people he defends us from. Let's do a quick run down, shall we?

-One beheading.
-Two faces ripped.
-Three injured Decepticons killed. (I'll count Sentinel among them, he was no Autobot.)
-Split Lockdown up the middle.

That's a FAR cry from a highway full of people (Bonecrusher), a village in the Middle East (The Fallen/Megatron), 3,000+ in Chicago (Sentinel/Megatron) and a city full of millions upon millions of people and priceless cultural relics (Lockdown).

Did I ever say the Decepticons were any better? I may think the Decepticons are cool, aesthetically, but they're obviously not better. If I in any way implied they're better, I assure you I did not mean to and apologize for the misunderstanding.

Oh and not to mention, nearly the remainder of his race wiped out by those he thought were friends and allies in a genocidal money making scheme. (Attinger/Joshua/KSI) Plus, in their egregious mindset of playing God, they (KSI) not only brought back one of the worst minds in history/the universe, they brought him back without a soul this time, so he has no fear and his body is better than ever, which will make him a REALLY tough target to kill. Plus, who knows which Autobots were used in his construction.

I'm going to give Optimus a solid pass, here. His killstreak PALES in comparison to those he stopped, in the effort to save us, even though we have no right to his protection.

He's a scary guy, huh? No, he has to do scary things because he's the one who has to get his hands dirty to save us, just like every other soldier, while we sit in judgement from afar and change the channel when we don't like it.

What's scary are the people who allow such atrocities to even happen in the first place. What's scary is the mindset that thousands of dollars of research and development are worth more than the lives it took.

Again, I could've SWORN you said not to do ad hominems, but I digress.

To attack Optimus is not necessarily to defend his enemies. KSI is evil, Frasier Cane is evil, the Decepticons are evil. That much is obvious. What bugs me is that Optimus used to face adversity like this in inspiringly noble ways, which usually wasn't realistic but it was who he was. This version may be more realistic, but think about that for a second. Think about that scenario you described earlier, wherein someone desecrates, mutilates, violates your dead pets or relatives and that makes you lose it. What can you do? Maybe punch the guy in the face, bloody his nose, I'm not gonna lie, you could end up doing some serious damage before someone stops you.

Now imagine you're in that mindset and you're a giant robot and, because almost the entirety of race is dead, almost nobody even can stop you. It's nice that Optimus ultimately did stop, but that doesn't change the fact that he's scary.



To paraphrase another of your arguments, I simply can't agree with your points either. I'm glad we agree on Grindor, but I'll aways hate this version of Prime because he slowly got less and less like the one I know and love. That doesn't necessarily mean he got worse and worse, I understand that now, but it does mean he got further and further out of my comfort zone.






PHEW, that was a long one. I'm tired.


EDT: Okay, something's SERIOUSLY wrong with my quote tags, and I'm not quite sure how to fix 'em.
EDIT 2: FINALLY fixed it. Sorry about that, I wrote this whole thing not long after waking up.

[Sabrblade]

Formatting issues making it sooooooo hard to follow the above post.

[Skywarp64]

Formatting issues making it sooooooo hard to follow the above post.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure what went wrong. I'll keep trying to fix it, but I could swear I've got all the quote tags and endquote tags in the right spots. I obviously don't, but I can't figure out the issue.

[Skywarp64]

Formatting issues making it sooooooo hard to follow the above post.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure what went wrong. I'll keep trying to fix it, but I could swear I've got all the quote tags and endquote tags in the right spots. I obviously don't, but I can't figure out the issue.

Okay, it's better now. Sorry about that. Matters were only made worse by the fact that my "Preview" button appears to be broken.

[Rodimus Prime]

As for DOTM, I hate this part because no one is willing to look at it logically and correctly. Megatron wasn't all that weakened. He had a head wound, yes, but all those little scalpel bots were slowly repairing him, plus he had no problem beating the hell out of Sentinel before shooting him. Not all that weak, I'd say.

Then how come Optimus tore through him so easily? In the first film, their battle took a considerable amount of time and Optimus nearly lost before Sam saved the day. But here, he manages to kill Megatron within minutes. How is this possible unless Megatron was considerably weakened?

Surprise attack. Getting an energon axe to the chest will do all sorts of damage. If Prime could have done that in the 1st film, he would have had similar success. Though it wouldn't have been as severe right away, because Megatron was stronger in the 1st film. He kept getting progressively weaker with each installment of Bayverse. Once he was on his knees, it was easy for Prime to deliver the (apparently not) final strike.

[Skywarp64]

As for DOTM, I hate this part because no one is willing to look at it logically and correctly. Megatron wasn't all that weakened. He had a head wound, yes, but all those little scalpel bots were slowly repairing him, plus he had no problem beating the hell out of Sentinel before shooting him. Not all that weak, I'd say.

Then how come Optimus tore through him so easily? In the first film, their battle took a considerable amount of time and Optimus nearly lost before Sam saved the day. But here, he manages to kill Megatron within minutes. How is this possible unless Megatron was considerably weakened?

Surprise attack. Getting an energon axe to the chest will do all sorts of damage. If Prime could have done that in the 1st film, he would have had similar success. Though it wouldn't have been as severe right away, because Megatron was stronger in the 1st film. He kept getting progressively weaker with each installment of Bayverse. Once he was on his knees, it was easy for Prime to deliver the (apparently not) final strike.

...Wait, I'm confused. It sounds like you agree that Megatron was significantly weakened, yet you bring up the surprise attack as an alternative explanation?

[ZeroWolf]

Okay, after reading your post skywarp I've got a few point of my own.
First, you get annoyed by people who defend things you don't like? That's not a good attitude to have. You should relish the Chance to see a new point of view, you may go away with a new understanding

Second) so your main beef seems to be that optimus is nothing like his 2nd cardboard cutout self in the G1 Cartoon. Is this a bad thing? I mean there is more people debating this prime then the G1 version.

Plus kids seem to like this prime as does hasbro, I know it's not much but they're the views that ultimately matter to hasbro.

Thirdly Megatron was at his full strength at the end of Dotm, it's just his full isn't at the same level as the first film. You're right though it could of been dramatic but the film was long enough already. I'm glad it was the way it was.

Finally you never addressed Autobot 032 points in bold.

[Skywarp64]

Okay, after reading your post skywarp I've got a few point of my own.
First, you get annoyed by people who defend things you don't like? That's not a good attitude to have. You should relish the Chance to see a new point of view, you may go away with a new understanding

I'm aware, and I apologized for having it. It's one of those bad parts of my personality that I hate but can't seem to put an end to.

Second) so your main beef seems to be that optimus is nothing like his 2nd cardboard cutout self in the G1 Cartoon. Is this a bad thing? I mean there is more people debating this prime then the G1 version.

Not objectively, no. It's a matter of personal preference is what it is.

Plus kids seem to like this prime as does hasbro, I know it's not much but they're the views that ultimately matter to hasbro.

Speaking in terms of marketing, fair enough. But speaking in terms of quality, kids also like Jar-Jar Binks.

Thirdly Megatron was at his full strength at the end of Dotm, it's just his full isn't at the same level as the first film. You're right though it could of been dramatic but the film was long enough already. I'm glad it was the way it was.

Right, that makes him significantly weaker.

Finally you never addressed Autobot 032 points in bold.

Because they were, as I pointed out, ad hominems.

[Rodimus Prime]

As for DOTM, I hate this part because no one is willing to look at it logically and correctly. Megatron wasn't all that weakened. He had a head wound, yes, but all those little scalpel bots were slowly repairing him, plus he had no problem beating the hell out of Sentinel before shooting him. Not all that weak, I'd say.

Then how come Optimus tore through him so easily? In the first film, their battle took a considerable amount of time and Optimus nearly lost before Sam saved the day. But here, he manages to kill Megatron within minutes. How is this possible unless Megatron was considerably weakened?

Surprise attack. Getting an energon axe to the chest will do all sorts of damage. If Prime could have done that in the 1st film, he would have had similar success. Though it wouldn't have been as severe right away, because Megatron was stronger in the 1st film. He kept getting progressively weaker with each installment of Bayverse. Once he was on his knees, it was easy for Prime to deliver the (apparently not) final strike.

...Wait, I'm confused. It sounds like you agree that Megatron was significantly weakened, yet you bring up the surprise attack as an alternative explanation?

I pointed out that Megatron was weaker in DoTM than in the 1st film, to counter the point that in the 2007 film he bitchslapped Optimus until Sam used the Cube to beat him. Along with the surprise attack, it's the reason why Optimus was able to beat him, and so quickly. Otherwise Megatron would have beaten Optimus in a fight. He had just disposed of Sentinel, albeit also due to a surprise attack, who was much more powerful than either Optimus or Megatron, and had Optimus at his mercy. Megatron was weaker, but compared only to himself from the previous films. He was still stronger than Optimus, and if Prime picked up the energon axe and tried to fight Megatron fairly, he would have lost.

[LOST Cybertronian]

Haven't bought any of the previous Age of Extinction Blu-Ray releases? A post on the Blu-Ray.com forums gives us a look at another steelbook edition of Transformers Age of Extinction. This steelbook is exclusive to Target and scheduled to release November 23 for a sale price of $13. The previous steelbook version was exclusive to Best Buy.

[Zeedust]

I guess the steelbook has some sort of appeal, even if I'm not sure what that appeal is... but if I decide for whatever reason that I want to own this movie, I'd prefer the "transforming case"
version.

Target.com does have free shipping on apparently everything, though, and aren't saying a timeframe for it beyond "happy holidays".

[Smokescreen85]

I prefer the artwork on the Best Buy steelbook over this one.

[Insurgent]

I like this film and overall think it's the best of the lot. Each Autobot has a clear personality, Kelsy Grammer is threatening, despite only ever standing in a suit and talking (that's a guy with gravitas), no toilet humour, not really any plot holes unless you start overthinking things, Prime had a very nice character arc and was much more than just the one dimensional 'hero figure' he's always portrayed as and Galvatron, though brief, was pretty sweet. As was Lockdown. And the charge of the dinobots was awesome to see on the big screen. Works on the small screen too. Looks like the story is going off in it's own thing now with the whole creators, and it's left me looking forward to the next one.

[Prime Riblet]

I thought Age of Extinction was enjoyable. It made me excited about the next film. That really is all I have to contribute to the conversation.

[It Is Him]

I thought Age of Extinction was enjoyable. It made me excited about the next film. That really is all I have to contribute to the conversation.

Wow! I remember you! One of my favorite usernames on here

[Prime Riblet]

I thought Age of Extinction was enjoyable. It made me excited about the next film. That really is all I have to contribute to the conversation.

Wow! I remember you! One of my favorite usernames on here

I didn't have time to be on here much over the last couple years, but I am back. Been too long.