The Energon Pub

Well said, CP.

You're all crazy!
I'll get PETA to help me protect the Decepticons or lets say "Spacekittens"!

well, about this thread.... there is a advantage to be given with the robot gore..... why complain?

Well, let me ask this hypothetical question, and I'll be using Grindor's death as an example.

Suppose if instead of Grindor getting his face ripped apart, it was Starscream who got sliced in the face. And let's also imagine that the Bayformers looked closer in appearance to their G1 counterparts (kinda like the Movie 1 Target-exclusive G1 deco Screamer figure) instead of their current bug-like forms.

Would you feel the same about Grindor being slagged like that if it were a G1-looking Starscream who got slagged like that instead? That guy does have a lot of fans (especially fangirls).

Sabrblade wrote:Well, let me ask this hypothetical question, and I'll be using Grindor's death as an example.

Suppose if instead of Grindor getting his face ripped apart, it was Starscream who got sliced in the face. And let's also imagine that the Bayformers looked closer in appearance to their G1 counterparts (kinda like the Movie 1 Target-exclusive G1 deco Screamer figure) instead of their current bug-like forms.

Would you feel the same about Grindor being slagged like that if it were a G1-looking Starscream who got slagged like that instead? That guy does have a lot of fans (especially fangirls).

Yeah, I would. Why wouldn't I? He's still trying to blow up the sun. You make a terrorist look like a puppy, it doesn't change the fact that he's still a terrorist.

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Well, let me ask this hypothetical question, and I'll be using Grindor's death as an example.

Suppose if instead of Grindor getting his face ripped apart, it was Starscream who got sliced in the face. And let's also imagine that the Bayformers looked closer in appearance to their G1 counterparts (kinda like the Movie 1 Target-exclusive G1 deco Screamer figure) instead of their current bug-like forms.

Would you feel the same about Grindor being slagged like that if it were a G1-looking Starscream who got slagged like that instead? That guy does have a lot of fans (especially fangirls).

Yeah, I would. Why wouldn't I? He's still trying to blow up the sun. You make a terrorist look like a puppy, it doesn't change the fact that he's still a terrorist.

Sorry Blade, but your point just doesn't stand up. I would explain why, but I would be repeating what Shadowman has already stated very clearly.

Transformers are harder to kill than vampires, anything short of ripping one's face in half wouldn't get the job done. Remember in the first movie how much damage Brawl took before they brought him down?

Evil_the_Nub wrote:Transformers are harder to kill than vampires, anything short of ripping one's face in half wouldn't get the job done. Remember in the first movie how much damage Brawl took before they brought him down?

Even Megatron survived a bombardment from multiple F-22s, and had to have the AllSpark itself forced into his chest just to kill him, but they still brought him back.

[quote="zwann"
5) Scorponok crushed to half by Jetfire.
6) Mixmaster brutally murdered by Jetfire.
7) Optimus ripping The Fallen's face.

[/quote]
1 jetfire used to be a decepticon.
2 the fallens,and let me say this slow TRYING TO BLOW UP THE SUN WHAT THE HELL IS HE SUPPOSED TO DO!

Prime Riblet wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Well, let me ask this hypothetical question, and I'll be using Grindor's death as an example.

Suppose if instead of Grindor getting his face ripped apart, it was Starscream who got sliced in the face. And let's also imagine that the Bayformers looked closer in appearance to their G1 counterparts (kinda like the Movie 1 Target-exclusive G1 deco Screamer figure) instead of their current bug-like forms.

Would you feel the same about Grindor being slagged like that if it were a G1-looking Starscream who got slagged like that instead? That guy does have a lot of fans (especially fangirls).

Yeah, I would. Why wouldn't I? He's still trying to blow up the sun. You make a terrorist look like a puppy, it doesn't change the fact that he's still a terrorist.

Sorry Blade, but your point just doesn't stand up. I would explain why, but I would be repeating what Shadowman has already stated very clearly.

true dat.

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Well, let me ask this hypothetical question, and I'll be using Grindor's death as an example.

Suppose if instead of Grindor getting his face ripped apart, it was Starscream who got sliced in the face. And let's also imagine that the Bayformers looked closer in appearance to their G1 counterparts (kinda like the Movie 1 Target-exclusive G1 deco Screamer figure) instead of their current bug-like forms.

Would you feel the same about Grindor being slagged like that if it were a G1-looking Starscream who got slagged like that instead? That guy does have a lot of fans (especially fangirls).

Yeah, I would. Why wouldn't I? He's still trying to blow up the sun. You make a terrorist look like a puppy, it doesn't change the fact that he's still a terrorist.

And yet all the girls love him.

Sabrblade wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Well, let me ask this hypothetical question, and I'll be using Grindor's death as an example.

Suppose if instead of Grindor getting his face ripped apart, it was Starscream who got sliced in the face. And let's also imagine that the Bayformers looked closer in appearance to their G1 counterparts (kinda like the Movie 1 Target-exclusive G1 deco Screamer figure) instead of their current bug-like forms.

Would you feel the same about Grindor being slagged like that if it were a G1-looking Starscream who got slagged like that instead? That guy does have a lot of fans (especially fangirls).

Yeah, I would. Why wouldn't I? He's still trying to blow up the sun. You make a terrorist look like a puppy, it doesn't change the fact that he's still a terrorist.

And yet all the girls love him.

That doesn't matter. Imagine something that makes you very happy; now imagine if it was trying to murder you and blow up Earth. Would that thing still make you happy?

I think that what some people either forget or don’t comprehend is that the Decepticons do not freaking care about anyone but themselves. They will sacrifice anything and anyone to complete their objectives. This isn’t even a case of well-intentioned extremism, either, since the Decepticon objectives are horrific.

Take for example their plan in the current movie. They want to destroy the sun and harvest its energy for their use. But where does that leave the inhabitants of Earth, you and me?

Dead. You will die. Your families will die. Your friends will die. That person you’ve been crushing on, if it applies to you? Dead. Everything you’ve ever had and ever will have, all of your hopes, dreams, and plans, all gone. All thanks to a group of hateful, evil, monsters.

In light of this, I approve of Optimus’s tactics. I was surprised when Optimus asked Demolishor “Any last words,” but considering that several of the soldiers in that unit came home in coffins, I don’t blame him. Megatron wanted to rip Sam’s skin from his flesh in retaliation for the events of the first movie.

You can’t negotiate with this kind of evil, and you d*** sure can’t show mercy or compassion. Evil isn’t fluent in that language; it always mistakes compassion for weakness, and you can’t ever show weakness to someone like that. Violence is the only language that evil understands; there are things I won’t defend about the movie (the sexual jokes), but I am extremely grateful that Optimus finally understands this. My hero, ever since I was two, has come full circle.

Honorbound wrote:I think that what some people either forget or don’t comprehend is that the Decepticons do not freaking care about anyone but themselves. They will sacrifice anything and anyone to complete their objectives. This isn’t even a case of well-intentioned extremism, either, since the Decepticon objectives are horrific.

Take for example their plan in the current movie. They want to destroy the sun and harvest its energy for their use. But where does that leave the inhabitants of Earth, you and me?

Dead. You will die. Your families will die. Your friends will die. That person you’ve been crushing on, if it applies to you? Dead. Everything you’ve ever had and ever will have, all of your hopes, dreams, and plans, all gone. All thanks to a group of hateful, evil, monsters.

In light of this, I approve of Optimus’s tactics. I was surprised when Optimus asked Demolishor “Any last words,” but considering that several of the soldiers in that unit came home in coffins, I don’t blame him. Megatron wanted to rip Sam’s skin from his flesh in retaliation for the events of the first movie.

You can’t negotiate with this kind of evil, and you d*** sure can’t show mercy or compassion. Evil isn’t fluent in that language; it always mistakes compassion for weakness, and you can’t ever show weakness to someone like that. Violence is the only language that evil understands; there are things I won’t defend about the movie (the sexual jokes), but I am extremely grateful that Optimus finally understands this. My hero, ever since I was two, has come full circle.

Mad props for this post.

Shadowman wrote:That doesn't matter. Imagine something that makes you very happy; now imagine if it was trying to murder you and blow up Earth. Would that thing still make you happy?

That depends. What if your already attempting suicide and you see this as way to speed up the process?

Sabrblade wrote:

Shadowman wrote:That doesn't matter. Imagine something that makes you very happy; now imagine if it was trying to murder you and blow up Earth. Would that thing still make you happy?

That depends. What if your already attempting suicide and you see this as way to speed up the process?

You're drudging on unwanted subject here.......


And if anyone is waiting for Giant Effing Robots to come to Earth, and are planning to use this event to commit suicide, It's a good time to rethink their life.

This thread has gone way off topic

I don't really think the Autobots are cold hearted or Barbaric.

If they had taken Demolishor prisoner, where is there that could hold him securely??

Hoover dam... maybe, but look what happened there. He was already damaged and probably about to expire anyway, so Prime gave him a quick death.

The Autobots know that letting the Decpticons live will evetually lead to losss of human lives, so they have to fight the decpticons and destroy them

just my .02c

Just to keep up my streak of sounding as idiotic as I usually do....

I was also a bit surprised, honestly, like the original poster of this thread, at how brutal the Autobots were. Yeah, yeah, I hear what y'all are saying--they're not fighting an enemy by ripping rounds of Scrabble. I got that.

What still bothers me is the escalation in bad-assness (can I say 'ass' here?) in Prime and Bumblebee in particular. I expect Ironhide to be a tough guy. In fact, I (heart) him for it. But it seems strange how the Autobots in the first movie really had their hands full fighting ONE Decepticon, and now we've got Optimus killing Grindor, maiming Starscream (obligatory fangirl sob) and beatin' the snot out of Megatron. All by his lonesome. Where was that asskickery in the first movie?

That's really my main disappointment with this film--the bad guys are not even all that threatening. In the first movie, not only were they more or less unstoppable by the humans (except poor Blackout and that was a lucky shot), they really had Autobots running pretty scared. I'd get it if we saw like six or seven Autobots on one Decepticon, like the Sideways battle. THAT makes sense to me. It takes a bunch of them to take a Decepticon down. But to turn around and have Bbee and OP turn into superheroes able of ripping apart Decepticons--well, at the very least that begs the question that at the end of the first movie, why didn't Optimus whip out some of that whoopass and just kill Megsy right then and there, and yay us we have the Allspark?

HK, Shadowman will say something mean about me in three...two...one...

hellkitty wrote:Where was that asskickery in the first movie?

Prime -> Bonecrusher

Bumblebee -> Brawl (It's actually one or two direct shots from the crippled B that takes Brawl out.)

Bumblebee also beats Barricade flat out in the beginning of the first film, though he doesn't kill him (Probably because Barricade runs and B needs to get back to Sam).

All the other incidents in the first film were the Cons striking hard and first. The Mission City battle was a defensive posture for the Autobots. Unfortunately it opens up for them with Starscream strafing the whole team, Bumblebee getting crippled because of that, and Jazz Iron Hide & Ratchet all trying to cover Sam as he excaped.

Cormaster628 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:
The uncoolest death was that of Sideways being cut like that, he really didn't deserve that.

Yeah I agree. I wasn't too crazy about it either, and Sideways was merely trying to avoid conflict and get away.

In the middle of a war are you going to allow your enemy the oppurtunity to come back around and shoot you or your comrades or innocent civilians later or do you dispatch him when you have the chance? Nothing will eat at your conscience more than NOT dealing with your enemy when you have the chance. Seeing the damage they do later and knowing YOU could have stopped it from happening...No, Sideswipe was justified and I almost came out of my seat cheering when I saw him split Sideways in two.

I know a lot of folks had issues with the ruthlessness. That is something that I totally respect. What folks have to understand is that, as much as you may not want them, you need people capable of being that ruthless. People that do what needs to be done, even beyond those who have to fight only in time of war, so that the majority don't have or eve have to give thought to it and I think that was portrayed beautifully in this movie. The fate of 7 billion lives was in the hands of a handful of humans and a handful of Autobots. Like G1 Prime said..."Megatron Must Be Stopped, NO MATTER THE COST!"

I don't agree with Autobot brutality.

Cops will always try to capture a thief/killer/kidnapper alive and then taking it to trial. Prime on the other hand is judge/juror and executioner - Judge Dredd style.

War or not, Autobots being brutal puts them on the unsympathetic side, whilst it is supposed for them to be the good guys. It's like US soldiers torturing prisoners in Guantanamo Bay. Aren't they supposed to be the good guys ?

Prime should lead with the example. Prime is supposed to be honorable, and a honorable man/bot doesn't shoot an enemy who's already down. Prime could have said: "Take him", and then a recovery team could have taken Demolishor away. It doesn't matter if they take him to the junkyard, but then Prime wouldn't be the executioner.

Even Batman (who is pretty badass) doesn't kill the Joker in The Dark Knight And this doesn't mean he is a coward, it means that he doesn't want to become what he is fighting. Prime shouldn't become a Decepticon to fight Decepticons.

Bumblebeast wrote:Cops will always try to capture a thief/killer/kidnapper alive and then taking it to trial.

They're not cops, they're soldiers. A soldier does not simply take an enemy combatant away, nor does he let them retreat.

While there was a rating on the movie for those of us parental types (I previewed it first THEN the kids saw it) what the ratings do not take into account is things such as intent. This should have been consider by the writing, directorial and production teams. They KNEW kids would be watching this movie and it was an irresponsible message to send across to kids.
NOW, on a larger, more universal scope (I love that I can switch gears that easy) given that the fate of every sentient being on the planet was at stake, the brutality was justified. Anything less than plowing through the opposition to achieve the end goal and the planet would have been forfeit. Expending limited manpower and time on humane and ethical treatment would have cost the Autobots/NEST everything.

Should this situation have even occurred? Should the Autobots have been placed in a position so extreme? No. It was irresponsible of all those involved knowing how many kids would be in attendance.
Do we need people to fill a role like what the Autobots were doing? Yes.
Those who want to condemn the actions of those who fill that role haven't seen true evil. They haven't seen people who have sunk so far below the limits of societal norms of depravity that they literally have no conscience. Individuals like that cease being human, they become like rabid animals and need to be put down as such.

Yes that's cold and yes, many folks find it to be wrong and they think it's evil. These are the same people who are genuinely clueless as to who they should really be thanking for being wrapped in a cocoon of comfort, safety and freedom. Remeber folks, not all predators have claws and walk on four legs. Give silent thanks for the Hunters...

Have we gone namby pamby cumbaya all of a sudden? Is this too much of Obamamania gone amuck or too much PC? War is a dirty business, kill or be killed. You can't rationalize with an enemy unwilling to compromise their beliefs. This may sound a bit political and instead of 'cons you have Al Q*ed@ and the Autobots are the US military.

You hunt them terrorist down, 1 out of a thousand that those jokers won't surrender, more or less activate a suicide belt than be taken alive, it's either you take them down now or risk those you let escape cause even more damage to innocents in the future.

Unless they get an ephiphany and change their ways (like Jetfire and Wheelie, then you give them a second chance. If not, they warrant immediate termination. Optimus you can't make an omelette if you don't crack the egg shells so I'm behind you 100%.Any other way is just foolhardy and suicidal.

I must admit during that first scene after Prime shot Demolisher in the face I was somewhat shocked and leaned over to my wife and said, "Damn Prime's gangsta, he just shot that dude in the face!"