The Energon Pub

Seraphium Prime wrote:Ooooook.


Has everyone forgotten how before being executed by OP, Demolisher was swatting helicopters out of the sky like flies? Running over cars, crashing through things...there were soilders in those helicopters. Those concrete pipes were landing on PEOPLE. There were PEOPLE in the cars, on the bridge...and the Autobots are being verbally crucified for it? It seems to me the merciless, ruthless, evil bots in this movie were DEFINATLY still the Decepticons. Yes, the Autobots kill...but they have to, its WAR. People (or robots in this case), die in war. And referring to another comment someone else posted, its definatly going to take more than a few shots from a giant gun to put these guys down. You have to put them out for good. The Autobots were only doing what they do best...they were protecting.

I think most people have a problem with the brutality, but then I think they didn't have much of a choice. You remember how much punishment the Decepticons took in the first movie? Being bombed by a handful of F-22 Raptors wasn't enough to put any of them down.

Agent 007 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Considering the Decepticons spend the movie trying to blow up the sun, and that any brutality on the Autobots' part is to keep the Decepticons from killing all of us...

THIS
And u said to freeze Demolisher.. well I seem to recall them doing that to a certain decepticon in the first movie and look how that truned out... Prime had to kill Grindor it was either kill him and fight Screamer and Megs or get sliced to pieces.

THIS as well. Keeping someone prisoner is much harder when they've got an army to back them up, especially since this army specializes in infiltration.

Well, there is such a thing as "stasis lock", instead of outright death and murder.

Sabrblade wrote:Well, there is such a thing as "stasis lock", instead of outright death and murder.

A TF can come back from stasis lock. What you're suggesting is like attempting to beat your enemy by knocking them out; they can still wake up and kill you. Once again, this is war, and you should expect death.

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Well, there is such a thing as "stasis lock", instead of outright death and murder.

A TF can come back from stasis lock. What you're suggesting is like attempting to beat your enemy by knocking them out; they can still wake up and kill you. Once again, this is war, and you should expect death.

Ever hear of "life imprisonment"? Knock'em ALL out, disarm ALL of them, lock ALL of them up before they wake up, and with ALL of them behind permanment bars, there's no army to back'em up or bust'em out, because the whole army's locked up.

Then, have each one tried, and then execute those who need be. Let the rest rot (rust?) in prison.

Sabrblade wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Well, there is such a thing as "stasis lock", instead of outright death and murder.

A TF can come back from stasis lock. What you're suggesting is like attempting to beat your enemy by knocking them out; they can still wake up and kill you. Once again, this is war, and you should expect death.

Ever hear of "life imprisonment"? Knock'em ALL out, disarm ALL of them, lock ALL of them up before they wake up, and with ALL of them behind permanment bars, there's no army to back'em up or bust'em out, because the whole army's locked up.

Then, have each one tried, and then execute those who need be. Let the rest rot (rust?) in prison.

Except, you know, all Decepticons aren't in the same place at the same time. You'd have to lock them up one by one, losing many people in the process, and then have to HOPE that a break-out isn't planned.

Scatterlung wrote:In our reality, soldiers don't go up to enemies and viciously dismember them.

What kind of ridiculous BS have you been subjected to?! Soldiers have been using the most advanced ways possible to kill their enemies since time immemorial. They are still taught in basic training the most efficient ways to 'dispose' of their enemy.

As far as being imprisoned, I'd much rather die than be chained. So would any real Decepticon.

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Well, there is such a thing as "stasis lock", instead of outright death and murder.

A TF can come back from stasis lock. What you're suggesting is like attempting to beat your enemy by knocking them out; they can still wake up and kill you. Once again, this is war, and you should expect death.

Ever hear of "life imprisonment"? Knock'em ALL out, disarm ALL of them, lock ALL of them up before they wake up, and with ALL of them behind permanment bars, there's no army to back'em up or bust'em out, because the whole army's locked up.

Then, have each one tried, and then execute those who need be. Let the rest rot (rust?) in prison.

Except, you know, all Decepticons aren't in the same place at the same time. You'd have to lock them up one by one, losing many people in the process, and then have to HOPE that a break-out isn't planned.

Then you also have to be concerned about the following type of situation: enemy combatants captured on the field with weapons, and then imprisoned then given civilian trials instead of military trials and released because the Autobots beat them up when they captured them. Poor 'cons.

zwann wrote:Yeah, but it wouldn't be so bad if the heroic Autobots just cyrogenate the Decepticons they hunted instead of killing them.

I smell Pooh-saaaaaay!

I have to agree with swann on this one. The autobots were way too brutal. We can try our best to defend the movie, but does anyone seriously think that Michael Bay and team thought about these reasons when they conceived these sequences. It's just way out of character. One moment Prime lectures the humans on violence, the next he is ripping Decepticon faces.

Sabrblade wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Well, there is such a thing as "stasis lock", instead of outright death and murder.

A TF can come back from stasis lock. What you're suggesting is like attempting to beat your enemy by knocking them out; they can still wake up and kill you. Once again, this is war, and you should expect death.

Ever hear of "life imprisonment"? Knock'em ALL out, disarm ALL of them, lock ALL of them up before they wake up, and with ALL of them behind permanment bars, there's no army to back'em up or bust'em out, because the whole army's locked up.

Then, have each one tried, and then execute those who need be. Let the rest rot (rust?) in prison.

are you being sarcastic or being serious?

Prime Riblet wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Well, there is such a thing as "stasis lock", instead of outright death and murder.

A TF can come back from stasis lock. What you're suggesting is like attempting to beat your enemy by knocking them out; they can still wake up and kill you. Once again, this is war, and you should expect death.

Ever hear of "life imprisonment"? Knock'em ALL out, disarm ALL of them, lock ALL of them up before they wake up, and with ALL of them behind permanment bars, there's no army to back'em up or bust'em out, because the whole army's locked up.

Then, have each one tried, and then execute those who need be. Let the rest rot (rust?) in prison.

are you being sarcastic or being serious?

Knock out an entire army, then attempt to disarm then. A very impossible task. Never mind the fact that the Decepticons are shown to be more than capable of killing with their bare hands.

Jetfire's treatment of Scorpy and Mixmaster didn't bother me. Jetfire is, after all, a former Decepticon.

Prime blasting Demolisher, aside from the "Any last words?" part, was more an act of mercy as the Decepticon was already dying.

Ravage's death didn't bother me, other than the fact that I was hoping he would survive the film.

Prime killing the Fallen, I felt was justified, he is, after all, the Fallen.

The only one that really bothered me as far as Autobot brutality was Prime killing Grindor. But then again, Prime was alone against at least three very powerful Decepticons, so I suppose I can understand the need to thoroughly exact a kill when the opportunity arrived.

Sabrblade wrote:Ever hear of "life imprisonment"? Knock'em ALL out, disarm ALL of them, lock ALL of them up before they wake up, and with ALL of them behind permanment bars, there's no army to back'em up or bust'em out, because the whole army's locked up.

Then, have each one tried, and then execute those who need be. Let the rest rot (rust?) in prison.

To add on to what Shadowman just said, you should also realize that every Decepticon soldier has murdered a human or Autobot in cold blood, or at least they tried their damnedest to do so. Inevitably only the spy (IE: Wheelie) would be spared, and he switched sides. Why not just kill the Decepticons before they can do anymore damage if their trial would lead to the death sentence anyway?

Let me put this in different terms. I'm not sure if everyone here is familiar with Halo, but I'll use that as an analogy. In Halo, the player (as Master Chief) has to kill all (or most) of the evil Covenant aliens in the playing field to safely progress. Now, imagine if the Master Chief and his small squad of marines (if he even has any with him on that mission) had to disarm the crazed aliens, bring them back to the ship while under fire, and then return to the battlefield to get the next couple of aliens to repeat the process. How would they survive? How would they disarm an army? How would they transport every prisoner? Where would they send the prisoners? How many troops would have to guard the prisoners? What would happen in the event of a jailbreak? There are just too many risks involved with disarming and imprisoning an army of psychotic aliens. Why not just kill them and move on?

Sabrblade wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Well, there is such a thing as "stasis lock", instead of outright death and murder.

A TF can come back from stasis lock. What you're suggesting is like attempting to beat your enemy by knocking them out; they can still wake up and kill you. Once again, this is war, and you should expect death.

Ever hear of "life imprisonment"? Knock'em ALL out, disarm ALL of them, lock ALL of them up before they wake up, and with ALL of them behind permanment bars, there's no army to back'em up or bust'em out, because the whole army's locked up.

Then, have each one tried, and then execute those who need be. Let the rest rot (rust?) in prison.

I didn't like seeing Optimus Prime executing Demolisher either and I thought that was greatly out of character. Optimus Prime has always stood for not only doing what's ethically and morally "right", but he's always taught the other Autobots to do the same. Remember those big speeches from the first movie? But think about what you're suggesting? How can you be certain that any captured Decepticons will never become a threat again? What instillation could be made on Earth that would guarantee that they would never find away to break out? Besides what country would want to hold them? Can you imagine the cost and the energy used? Not to mention I hope that country has a great economy to afford keeping the captured always contained.

Even if they were to place some into some kind of imprisonment, there will always be the threat that another Decepticon will try to bust them out. We saw Frenzy demonstrate this in the first movie with a frozen Megatron. But don't worry with the shards of the Cube still in existence, no transformer can ever be considered permanently disposed of. Megatron still has the portion of shard the Decepticon's took back. There's just too much of a threat to allow even Demolisher to live. He's too immense in size to take that risk. This movie is supposed to be more realistic, and it is war.

meshnut wrote:

zwann wrote:Yeah, but it wouldn't be so bad if the heroic Autobots just cyrogenate the Decepticons they hunted instead of killing them.

I smell Pooh-saaaaaay!

Something Mudflap or Skids would say in response.

Its not like the decepticons had a legit reason be on earth in the first place. If the army has a fenced off base thats a restricted area, and you decide go joy ride with your car on to it and get blown away its not the soldiers fault for keeping you out. You knew the rules, and opt to go there anyways.

Everyone a Con came to earth they were there harm its inhabitants for most part. They werent there Site see or talk. They were there as soldiers in a war. If they wanted to defect, they d flat out talked to prime as he d likely given them the chance. Not like the autbots wanted to fight them decepticons. But they feel an obligation defend the world they brought war to the door step of.

In war people die, and the transformers battling I dont see be much different. In case of demolisher, if he d beg for mercy may be Prime wouldnt shot him. He still smarted off to Prime, as he was like the fallen will rise again. Basically he wasnt going change his tune and was proud die a soldier for his cause.

While G1 and most series the death tolls arent usually so mounting for the bad guys. In first movie they gave us some personality to cons as they were all IDed when they assembled for the all spark. Id like for them roll called all named ones for the final battle. (also since screamer wasnt hiding his ID to humans, he should have changed to his G1 color scheme into of the markings hehe.) Would give them an identify themselves with a line(and give some sort of impression to their personality), and atleast may be have a few survive so we dont have an army of unnamed 30 feet tall foot soldiers fodder.

On postive side the key members of the decepticons are still around, as the original trinity lives fight another day.They got them right for most part too. They truthfully were only really rememberable ones as rest rotated in and out plenty. Since its a movie not the series keeping them alive isnt as important(The series is designed for same combatant to fight dozens of times with minimal deaths.), cause whether they die or rotated out, either way we re going end up with a new cast of villains.

Ultimately Im happy wasnt a massive amount of dead autobots. I was half expecting them introduce a bunch and have them die since this was going be the film the bad guys strike back. Offically the only permant deaths to date are jazz and Jetfire. I can live with that. though id like seen Jazz survived, but I didnt want any of the original 5 autobots to die, as they were all classic core characters, hard say who id brought in to take the fall for the team instead.

But its war, I dont expect them take their way out of everything or lock up super villains who excell at infiltration. If the cons wanted live, they wouldnt step foot on earth without making the request do so peacefully. I cant feel sorry for soldiers who choose follow orders of evil leaders. Im guessing the autobots know its either you or them on them battle field/ Freedom is right all sentient life, which they have the freedom to decide stay heck off earth heh.

Well, Cybertronian can survive alot of punishment. I guess that destroying the head is the quick way to kill them. Just ask Bonecrusher. (he hated that!)

I don't really agree with "..they will do everything they can to stop the Decepticons.." being a fact of their brutality.

Doing everything they could, means using highly classified dangerous weapon to stop the cons.

Doing everything they could, is killing enemies to save people even if it's against the code.

What the Autobots did was not just killing. They are brutally slaughtering, and torturing them, that it doesn't look that they are doing everything they could to stop the cons. It looked more that they are doing everything they could to ENJOY killing the cons.

Decepticons: Why are you hunting us down?! Killing us all? Is it because you are an Autobot, we are Decepticons?

Autobots: We're not killing you because you are Decepticons, we're killing you...because we LIKED it."

BANG!! One shot to the face.

zwann wrote:Decepticons: Why are you hunting us down?! Killing us all? Is it because you are an Autobot, we are Decepticons?

Autobots: We're not killing you because you are Decepticons, we're killing you...because we LIKED it."

BANG!! One shot to the face.

You got the second part wrong:

Autobots: We're not killing you because you are Decepticons, we're killing you...because you're trying to blow up the sun and kill every living being on this planet!

Shadowman wrote:

zwann wrote:Decepticons: Why are you hunting us down?! Killing us all? Is it because you are an Autobot, we are Decepticons?

Autobots: We're not killing you because you are Decepticons, we're killing you...because we LIKED it."

BANG!! One shot to the face.

You got the second part wrong:

Autobots: We're not killing you because you are Decepticons, we're killing you...because you're trying to blow up the sun and kill every living being on this planet!

Theyt were slaughter Cons LONG before they even knew about the Harvester.

Sabrblade wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

zwann wrote:Decepticons: Why are you hunting us down?! Killing us all? Is it because you are an Autobot, we are Decepticons?

Autobots: We're not killing you because you are Decepticons, we're killing you...because we LIKED it."

BANG!! One shot to the face.

You got the second part wrong:

Autobots: We're not killing you because you are Decepticons, we're killing you...because you're trying to blow up the sun and kill every living being on this planet!

Theyt were slaughter Cons LONG before they even knew about the Harvester.

As it turns out, the Decepticons were slaughtering Autobots long before they knew about the harvester.

Shadowman wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

zwann wrote:Decepticons: Why are you hunting us down?! Killing us all? Is it because you are an Autobot, we are Decepticons?

Autobots: We're not killing you because you are Decepticons, we're killing you...because we LIKED it."

BANG!! One shot to the face.

You got the second part wrong:

Autobots: We're not killing you because you are Decepticons, we're killing you...because you're trying to blow up the sun and kill every living being on this planet!

Theyt were slaughter Cons LONG before they even knew about the Harvester.

As it turns out, the Decepticons were slaughtering Autobots long before they knew about the harvester.

Well that's not in the movie. We're talking about the evnts of the movie. The Cons knew of the Harvester and The Fallen's plans, but the Autobots didn't and they were still slaughtering without knowing of the real threat.

This debate is completely strange.

The silliest example so far has to be the way Optimus killed Blackout/Grindor in the woods. If you were OP, fighting three of the most powerful Decepticons, and doing it alone.......would you really take the extra time to make sure that you were making nice, clean and "nonbrutal kills". BS if you answer yes to that question. It's the same way with Mel Gibson's character in The Patriot (not the stuff he did in the previous war-i am talking about what he did to the British troops). He did what he had to do against terrible odds and very short amounts of time. He was also trying to protect his family as Optimus was trying to protect Sam.

First off, the decepticons have that and more coming after all the things they've done..and I don't know about you, but the concept of a fair fight-especially involving the fate of our solar system..honestly id want the autobots to kill as many decepticons as possible.
Another thing..out of curiosity, where do you freeze & store somthing like devestator?

Ha, this is absurd.

Sympathy for the devil taken to a ridiculous degree.

The Decepticons want to take Earth, use the AllSpark to generate an army at the cost of the planet and all it's people. Later, when that fails, they want to destroy our sun and all our life for their own military conquests (the corresponding comics reveal The Fallen's manifest destiny ideals).

So, the Autobots are willing to do whatever it takes to defend us, preserve life, and prevent genocide...and they're barbaric? and we've got Decepticon sympathizers?

You all are traitors to humanity. It's not some philosophical pondering...are they more right than we are...no. Megatron and the Decepticons more so than any other TF continuity are enemies of Earth. To doubt the Autobot protectors in doing their job, to sympathize with the enemy, or to call into question the means necessary (killing) a group who sets out for our destruction, is nothing less than traitorous.