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Rodimus Prime wrote:No. Just no.Dr. Caelus wrote:I don't have the time to get in a back-and-forth with people I know won't change their minds, but this absolutely needs to be addressed:Rodimus Prime wrote:Dr. Caelus wrote:If they speak to their friends, their friends (on places like this website) tend to tell them it's not the time/place for it, and that they should go somewhere else to talk about it.
Is this based on personal experience? Because it can't (or shouldn't) be a generalization. It doesn't happen everywhere. I know this for a fact, because I have black people around me in both a professional and social setting, and I have never refused to speak to them about these things, not out of discomfort or anything else. And any time a discussion took place, I learned something from it.
Hypocrisy.
I'm not black, but I've been alienated, ostracized, or censured enough times for speaking up about these issues and others, to be extraordinarily frustrated, and that's with the benefit of white privilege shielding me from rebukes and winning me credibility with other white people.
But because you're certain you are not guilty of driving people away, because you anecdotally have an exception to the rule, you are prepared to say, 'No, you're generalizing, so this doesn't count,' as if its only racism if 100% of white people are dicks to people of color.
You say the whole argument is null because you've seen exceptions, and object to generalizations. So, how does that fit with your, 'protesters don't deserve our respect because they're vandals, arsonists, and looters' attitude?
I went to a Black Lives Matter protest on Tuesday. No fires, no smashed windows, no injuries. Someone had heat stroke, and there were some creepy white guys watching the protest with binoculars, which seemed ominous, but the protest was 100% peaceful.
So, by your own logic, if some (most) BLM protests do not become destructive, then any 'generalizations' to the contrary must surely be rebuked, and anyone derailing constructive discussion by incessantly returning the topic to the actions of people that BLM has no control over should likely be seen as contributing to the defense of a racist system.
You're taking 2 separate things and trying to turn them into one. I never once said ALL protesters were vandals and thugs. I specified those who are destructive. Which not all of them are. Don't get yourself confused in your haste to disprove me.
And my previous point only reinforces yours. You have been alienated and ostracized for speaking up on these issues. I have been part of discussions with both those who agree and disagree. I live in South Georgia, there are plenty of ignorant country hicks atound me screaming "'MURICA!!!" any time social issues come up. Can you call that alienation? I don't know. Maybe. When people of my own race look down on me when I disagree with them on things, what is that called?
Fair enough. And I will concede that I do keep that topic in the forefront of my discussions a bit too much perhaps, mainly because I want to keep attention on it. I think the honest, grassroots movement of black lives matter is a noble and just cause and I suppoet it 100%. I fear that it will be sabotaged by those on the fringes who wish to hijack it for their own gains, regardless of their motives and ot will become diminished and diluted. That's all. The best way to guard against that is constant vigilance.Dr. Caelus wrote:Rodimus Prime wrote:No. Just no.Dr. Caelus wrote:I don't have the time to get in a back-and-forth with people I know won't change their minds, but this absolutely needs to be addressed:Rodimus Prime wrote:Dr. Caelus wrote:If they speak to their friends, their friends (on places like this website) tend to tell them it's not the time/place for it, and that they should go somewhere else to talk about it.
Is this based on personal experience? Because it can't (or shouldn't) be a generalization. It doesn't happen everywhere. I know this for a fact, because I have black people around me in both a professional and social setting, and I have never refused to speak to them about these things, not out of discomfort or anything else. And any time a discussion took place, I learned something from it.
Hypocrisy.
I'm not black, but I've been alienated, ostracized, or censured enough times for speaking up about these issues and others, to be extraordinarily frustrated, and that's with the benefit of white privilege shielding me from rebukes and winning me credibility with other white people.
But because you're certain you are not guilty of driving people away, because you anecdotally have an exception to the rule, you are prepared to say, 'No, you're generalizing, so this doesn't count,' as if its only racism if 100% of white people are dicks to people of color.
You say the whole argument is null because you've seen exceptions, and object to generalizations. So, how does that fit with your, 'protesters don't deserve our respect because they're vandals, arsonists, and looters' attitude?
I went to a Black Lives Matter protest on Tuesday. No fires, no smashed windows, no injuries. Someone had heat stroke, and there were some creepy white guys watching the protest with binoculars, which seemed ominous, but the protest was 100% peaceful.
So, by your own logic, if some (most) BLM protests do not become destructive, then any 'generalizations' to the contrary must surely be rebuked, and anyone derailing constructive discussion by incessantly returning the topic to the actions of people that BLM has no control over should likely be seen as contributing to the defense of a racist system.
You're taking 2 separate things and trying to turn them into one. I never once said ALL protesters were vandals and thugs. I specified those who are destructive. Which not all of them are. Don't get yourself confused in your haste to disprove me.
And my previous point only reinforces yours. You have been alienated and ostracized for speaking up on these issues. I have been part of discussions with both those who agree and disagree. I live in South Georgia, there are plenty of ignorant country hicks atound me screaming "'MURICA!!!" any time social issues come up. Can you call that alienation? I don't know. Maybe. When people of my own race look down on me when I disagree with them on things, what is that called?
I do owe you a partial apology. I confused one of your posts with someone else's. You didn't say 'All protesters are destructive' just seemed to dwell rhetorically on those that are, which ends up sounding a lot like concern trolling.
I wish I had time to respond to your other points, but with people talking to me in one year and my child spraying my screen with raspberries, I can't afford the attention it would clearly be due.
blueridgefox wrote:Well I didn’t think I’d see seibertron.com go political be here we are. Look, I’m with you on stamping out racism in any form, but this site just isn’t the place
We should be able to come here, free of the societal woes and just enjoy our hobby.
We don’t need a lecture from a site admin on why we should feel guilty about an incident that we can all agree was horrible. Please do yourself a favor and regroup whatever personal dignity you have left and run the site as it pertains to the Transformers hobby.
There is nobility in actions, not virtue signaling to obtain blue check marks from people who claim to occupy the moral high ground to get sites like yours to bend the knee for the sake of political correctness. BTW, congratulations, you’ve ended racism.
Seibertron wrote:BeastProwl wrote:I thought making political posts was against the rules. Guess that doesnt matter when youre the site owner though, huh?
That is correct. I generally refrain from using Seibertron.com as my platform for my opinions but felt this moment in time was too big of an issue to ignore. I'm sorry if it upsets you or makes you uncomfortable. It's time to take a stand so here we are. Which Transforners fansite you choose to participate on is your choice. I'm taking a gamble with my business to express my views that I feel is the right thing to do. If you dont like that, no one is forcing you to stay here. I dont want you to leave, but I understand if those of you who are uncomfortable with all of this if you leave. I'm comfortable with doing what I feel is right. I respect your opinion if you dont want to be part of this. This is what I believe in and what I believe is right so here we are. It's time for a change and I want myself and Seibertron.com to be on the side of helping to make a difference for issues that I feel are much bigger than all of us.
Bounti76 wrote:UnderYourCloset wrote:All lives matter.
This is a Transformers site. I don't want **** political topics in the news.
It's not politics, it's humanity. Please read it again.
UnderYourCloset wrote:All lives matter.
This is a Transformers site. I don't want **** political topics in the news.
Rodimus Prime wrote:bomington, welcome to the board!![]()
As for your claim that staying home and playing with Transformers is a PRIVILEGE, I disagree somewhat. Having Transformers means you either had the funds to purchase them, or someone gave them to you. Either way, they were purchased (well, they could have been stolen, but it still cost someone something) and for that you needed money, which had to come from somewhere. If you worked for it or someone else did and you got it as a gift, loan or subsidy, it was still earned. It has value. So when you exchange it for Transformers, it gives you the RIGHT to own those Transformers, and since now they are now your private property, you have the RIGHT to do with them as you wish.
Rodimus Prime wrote:bomington, welcome to the board!![]()
If you worked for it or someone else did and you got it as a gift, loan or subsidy, it was still earned. It has value. So when you exchange it for Transformers, it gives you the RIGHT to own those Transformers, and since now they are now your private property, you have the RIGHT to do with them as you wish.
Cobotron wrote:Hey! You seemed to have attracted a wild Megatronus. They're hard to find, but boy are they fun when you catch one!
-Kanrabat- wrote:firefox91 wrote:To those that respond to "Black Lives Matter" with "All Lives Matter", you're missing the message.
Oh no we don't.
The base of the message sure have good intentions. But the movement have been hijacked from a long time by unscrupulous people and their quest for power.
Because for Black Lives Matters, not all black lives matter at all.
Where is BLM for promoting family values and responsibilities for black fathers?
Where is BLM for the constant gang violence that happen between blacks in the 'hood?
Where is BLM for all those blacks that lost their jobs, their livelihood, and even their homes due to the riots, looting, and burnings?
Where was BLM for the retired St. Louis police Capt. David Dorn when he was responding to an alarm at a friend's pawn shop when he was shot in the head to death?
Answering any of these question expose the truth about how BLM is a scam, made to shame white people for the color of their skin and for their ancestor's actions. BLM also push down any and all black people back into the crab basket who dare to think for themselves. Because when black people stop thinking themselves as constant victims and take responsibility for their lives, then BLM lose power and they can't allow that.
Yeah I figured it out a bit later. That's what I get for posting after a long workday. My bad bomington, I didn't mean to jump on you about it, my response was overkill.Sammythekat wrote:Rodimus Prime wrote:bomington, welcome to the board!![]()
As for your claim that staying home and playing with Transformers is a PRIVILEGE, I disagree somewhat. Having Transformers means you either had the funds to purchase them, or someone gave them to you. Either way, they were purchased (well, they could have been stolen, but it still cost someone something) and for that you needed money, which had to come from somewhere. If you worked for it or someone else did and you got it as a gift, loan or subsidy, it was still earned. It has value. So when you exchange it for Transformers, it gives you the RIGHT to own those Transformers, and since now they are now your private property, you have the RIGHT to do with them as you wish.
you completely missed his point, mate-
he's saying that being able to stay home and avoid the situation is a privilege, not that owning toy robots is a privilege.
Dr. Caelus wrote:So,for all the people who would rather be talking about Transformers, how about that time Orion Pax came back to the precinct from patrol to find his fellow officers and a government stooge beating the hope out of a low SES activist they'd arrested after baiting the activist's friend into a fight? Or maybe that time that a riot broke out on a mining facility because a politician needed a photo-op and had his enforcers lay into the gathered crowd? Or maybe the empathic guy who becomes a hardcore SJW after watching his boss use politics to get rich? Or the conartist who ingratiates himself into a major political movement as an opportunity to escape his enemies and advance himself? Or about the orange asshat that starts a civil war by responding to class tensions with "law and order" and ominous weapons?
OR we could talk about the fact that a Decepticon police car literally has "punish" and "enslave" written across his knuckles? No social commentary there, I'm sure.
Burn wrote:There's a few people in this thread who were already skating on thin ice and are at the point I could probably permanently ban them.
Some of you need to step back and stop forcing your opinion down the throats of others. Interestingly enough, it seems to be those opposed to BLM that are the most vocal.
Think about that for a second.
Black.Lives.Matter. Three words that are trying to highlight the inequality that black people suffer on a daily basis.
And all you can do is go on about how wrong it is, or how, like COVID-19, it's fake, or how it's just some bullshit whipped up by people who have nothing better to do.
What does that say about you? To me, it says you're a racist, or at the very least, a **** asshole who doesn't care about their fellow humans.
Ryan made this post to support BLM, because he sees the inequality, he sees the suffering. He made the thread to discuss BLM, but some how it's spun into crackpot conspiracy theories.
You've completely missed the point.
When BLM first started I was one of those who said "but all lives matter". I missed the point. But I read, I listened, and I learnt that the point of BLM isn't that only BLM, that no one has said other lives don't matter, that the idea of BLM was to highlight the inequalities and suffering that black people endure on a daily basis.
I am, for all intents and purposes, an outsider looking in. I'm not from America. I only see what the media lets me see or what I come across on Twitter.
But this problem isn't exclusive to America. Australia has a long history of abuse towards Indigenous Australians. From wholesale slaughter to children stealing (not the **** dingo either so don't bring that up), Indigenous Australians have had a rough go of it for the last 200+ years. Growing up, I went to school with Aboriginal kids, I went to school with Greek kids, with Italian kids, in high school Hmong and Indian kids, they were just kids like me.
But one group was treated differently, the Aboriginal kids. I remember going to school one day and running into one of the Aboriginal kids from my class. His head had been shaved because he had nits. While any other kid who got nits had them treated, but if you were Aboriginal, instant head shave. That bloke, who I should add was a great bloke, was always joking ... later went on to kill himself. I don't know why, but I look back and see how the school system was geared against him. Another Aboriginal kid who grew up around the corner from me, fantastic athelete, he too killed himself. As do a lot of young Aboriginal men, simply because the Australian Government just keeps throwing money at the problem without offering any concrete solution, because the way I see it, they don't care.
When Australia was first colonised, Aboriginals were regarded as sub-human, and that's something I believe the old rich white dudes who are currently make up the Australian Government still believe.
But as someone who grew up with them, they're people just like me.
Their lives don't mean more than mine (unless you catch me during one of my depressive days in which case I'll tell you they do) but they need help. Even though they share the same rights as me, even though they are entitled to the same things as me, the colour of their skin sees them treated less, they have to work harder to prove themselves.
And that's why, while all lives matter, we need to shine a light on black lives mattering as well, because it's high time we stopped treating them differently, as lesser human beings.
Put your conspiracy theories aside and see that.
Counterpunch wrote:Black lives matter. Full stop.
Policing in the United States needs reform.
There is a right and a wrong side of history to land on here. It isn't difficult.
High Command wrote:Some questions, which don't really need a response here but are worth asking yourselves and be as honest as you can about.
If all lives matter why does it offend some people when others say black lives matter?
Are black lives not lives too?
If all lives matter do you support universal healthcare?
If all lives matter do you oppose the death penalty?
Are there any contradictions here that need extra clarification or does all lives matter cover everyone?
Has the police responce to protests against police brutality calmed or enflamed tensions?
Has the president's responce calmed or enflamed tensoons?
What should the penalty be for murder?
What should the penalty be for using a forged $20 bill?
What should the penalty be for cops who murder?
Should the law apply the same to cops as it does citizens or differently?
Should the law apply the same to black people and white people?
Does it always?
Do black and white people receive the same sentences for the same crimes in the courts?
Were armed protesters against lockdown treated the same as unarmed protesters against police brutality?
Besides being armed what else was different about those protests?
What changes were achieved by previous peaceful protests?
What changes were achieved by previous non-peaceful protests?
Why did the cop who killed George Floyd not get arrested before there were protests?
Why did he get arrested after there were protests?
Was the American Revolution achieved by peaceful protest alone?
What brought slavery to an end in the United States?
Who got compensation when slavery ended, the slaves or slave owners?
Is property more important than lives?
Why are black people asking for equality not revenge?
Why don't they think they have equality now?
Is equality a bad thing?
Was the United States for or against fascism in world war 2?
Was fascism defeated peacefully or with violence in world war 2?
If you were a German in world war 2 what would you have done?
Are you for or against fascism now?
Has the KKK ever been recognised as a terrorist organisation?
Should they be?
How many people have the KKK killed?
How many people have antifa killed?
How many people have the police killed?
Who have you spoken out against more, antifa or the KKK?
Why does one bother you more than the other?
If terrorists use threats of violence to try and intimidate people into doing what they want, how does this differ from police methods?
If terrorists use threats of violence to try and intimidate people into doing what they want, how does this differ from Donald Trump's rhetoric?
How does the Chinese government refer to the Hong Kong protesters?
What percentage of mass shooters are white?
How many of them are called terrorists?
How many of them are called mentally ill?
Why did the woman in Central Park think she could threaten someone by saying that she'd call the cops, when she was in the wrong and on film?
Why did she change her tone when she made the call and point out that a black man was attacking her?
What did she think was going to be the likely outcome when the cops arrived?
Why did she think this?
Why do you know what she was thinking too?
Do you understand that thinking this shouldn't be normal?
Do you feel uncomfortable thinking about any of these questions?
Would your answers be any different if you had a different skin colour?
Would your answers be the same if you were reading them out loud to a room of people of the same skin colour as you?
Would they be the same if you were reading them out loud to a room of people of a different skin colour to you?
If they would be any different, why?
What do you think my skin colour is?
Would that matter?
Do you feel attacked by any of these questions?
If so, why?
hoymuna wrote:Going all the way back to G1 and literally every iteration since, Transformers as a franchise has always been about the struggle against injustice.
High Command wrote:Some questions, which don't really need a response here but are worth asking yourselves and be as honest as you can about.
Solipsist wrote:I had hoped this site would keep politics out of its forums and boards. BLM is at best the black answer to the KKK and with The President announcing that BOTH ANTIFA AND BLM will soon be designated as "Known Terrorist Organizations", I find every person and group, company, etc stating some sort of "Virtue Signalling" and lame support and best wishes type of rhetoric to be part of the problem. The KKK was created by Dixiecrats and now BLM has also been created by Dixiecrats, even if they don't call themselves that anymore! Dems openly support Terrorists and if you support them as well then you are part of the problem for not being educated enough to see the parallels between what the old Dems did and what the contemporary Dems have done. WHY CAN WE NOT KEEP POLITICS OFF AN ENTERTAINMENT WEBSITE??? I feel betrayed and disgusted by the moderators who would inject this slimy topic into a board about something comforting I have had since I was a kid. This is NOT the place for Social Experimentation and attempted Brainwashing of the vulnerable masses who do not understand what Stockholm Syndrome even is! If you lock me out, FINE! BUT I had to tell you first that you suck for bringing politics into this otherwise somber forum! I pray for your misguided souls that you wake up!
Unless you wish to be known as terrorist sympathizers?!?
Coptur wrote:BLM is nothing more than a left wing power movement.
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