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WonkoTheSane42 wrote::-?Absolute Zero wrote:When asked if you believe black people matter, that their lives have worth, and you can't say "Yes, they do have worth and value and indeed matter." or something along those lines, and instead go back to "I can't support the Black Lives Matter movement" even after being told those are not the same... Eh, I think that speaks for itself. No one is going to go "HA! Gotcha!" if you say yes they do. No one is going to suddenly show up with a card reader telling you to donate or force you to go march.
When your stance is neutral though, I wonder how and why. Because this isn't a question of McDonalds or Burger King, Hasbro or Takara, Popeyes or Chic Fil A, Pepsi or Coke, Biden or Trump, or any other competing brand. It's do the lives of people have value. Should they be treated as equals.
When the first slaves arrived in America in 1619, maybe a majority of people didn't think it was right to own another human being. But we'll never know, because that majority didn't stand up. Instead they stayed neutral.
When Jim Crow laws were put into place in America in 1877 following the Civil War, maybe a majority of people didn't think it was right to strip rights from Black people. But we'll never know, because that majority didn't stand up. Instead they stayed neutral.
When Civil Rights started in the 1950s and 1960s, maybe the majority supported it. Maybe we could have avoided the last 60+ years of on again off again protests and riots, and got fully enforced civil rights so everyone would be equal. But we'll never know, because enough people didn't stand up. Instead to many stayed neutral.
So now in 2020, you can't stand up and say "Yeah. I think Black people matter." and stick with neutrality saying "There's always another way" but don't put one forth, and then get upset when people tell you you're part of the problem.
Well, history is pretty clear.
Keep in mind, this is only American history, and doesn't even cover the terrible things done to Native Americans or British problems with race or Australian problems with race or Canadian problems with race. And it's not even a complete history. I'm sure if I spent enough time, I could find a laundry list of times where if people just stood up, things would be different. But sitting in neutrality is comfortable. Standing for something isn't.
Maybe you think this is just a stupid fan site, so it doesn't matter. But if not here, behind your anonymity, then when?
Maybe it is a stupid fan site, but think about why you're here. Think about your favorite characters. Not just from Transformers, but from any and all mediums. Think about what they would do.
Not sure if this post is addressed to me, But I was the last one to post, So if it wasn't addressed to me, Just ignore the following response.
I'll start from the top of the post, And work my way down.
-
"When asked if you believe black people matter"
Of course black people matter. I've never said they don't, And I'll never say they don't.
Some of my friends and favorite people are black. Of course their lives matter.
"When your stance is neutral though"
Not sure if you've read my post on page 6 of this thread, But I am not neutral. As I told Burn, I'm simply not looking for a fight.
Yes black peoples lives have value, And they should be (I always have) treated as equals.
"When the first slaves arrived in America in 1619"
I would have stood up. Unfortunately, Despite my best efforts, I am not yet immortal. Sadly, That was 401 years ago, And I was not alive yet.
"When Jim Crow laws were put into place"
Read previous.
"When Civil Rights started in the 1950s"
Well, We're getting close, But sadly, I was still not alive. Regardless, I still would've stood up.
"So now in 2020, you can't stand up and say "Yeah. I think Black people matter." "
I'll say it again, Yes. I think black people matter. I'm absolutely all for standing on a corner protesting.
But I won't shut down a highway quite possibly full of people who are in agreement with me and have done nothing wrong. The problem with a movement this large, Is there are always bad apples who twist and distort its message to their own ends. Of course this isn't the majority, But they are there.
"Well, history is pretty clear."
Indeed. Nothing to add here.
"But sitting in neutrality is comfortable."
Read second.
"Maybe you think this is just a stupid fan site, so it doesn't matter. But if not here, behind your anonymity, then when?"
I do not think this is a "stupid fan site", And I do believe it matters. And, To quote something I said to Burn,
"I'm always one for a civil conversation about things like this."
"Think about your favorite characters. Not just from Transformers, but from any and all mediums. Think about what they would do."
I have. I don't know if you're familiar with classic X-Men, But I think this is a good analogy. I want to be Charles Xavier here, Not Max Eisenhardt.
-Kanrabat- wrote:It's not just "a few bad apples. If the police of their group won't condemn the violence made by their own side, it's now the whole basket that is rotten
Also, you are in a circular firing squad and you don't know it.
https://nypost.com/2020/06/12/seattle-p ... es-matter/
High Command wrote:-Kanrabat- wrote:being lynched for liking a tweet
Deliberate attempt to bait with that choice of word.
Robert Fuller and Malcolm Harsch were two black men found hung in California over the last few days. The police ruling them both suicides without performing any investigation.
Being cancelled on social media is not the same thing.
-Kanrabat- wrote:You haven't paid any attention to the articles shown in the video. It's not about "political correctness" at all but CANCEL CULTURE. Search the term. No one is immune. Especially the loudest of the virtue signalers.
TV shows and movies being pulled off the air, sponsorship being lost due to a dissenting opinion
-Kanrabat- wrote:The Purge is here. This is the bed you guys made over the years. Time to sleep in it.
-Kanrabat- wrote:If you want to play that game, some people actually committed suicide over being cancelled on social media.
High Command wrote:Laughter is such a pleasant jolly thing, I've changed my mind about you and want to buy you a present now.
WonkoTheSane42 wrote:Not sure if this post is addressed to me, But I was the last one to post, So if it wasn't addressed to me, Just ignore the following response.
I'll start from the top of the post, And work my way down.
-
"When asked if you believe black people matter"
Of course black people matter. I've never said they don't, And I'll never say they don't.
Some of my friends and favorite people are black. Of course their lives matter.
"When your stance is neutral though"
Not sure if you've read my post on page 6 of this thread, But I am not neutral. As I told Burn, I'm simply not looking for a fight.
Yes black peoples lives have value, And they should be (I always have) treated as equals.
"When the first slaves arrived in America in 1619"
I would have stood up. Unfortunately, Despite my best efforts, I am not yet immortal. Sadly, That was 401 years ago, And I was not alive yet.
"When Jim Crow laws were put into place"
Read previous.
"When Civil Rights started in the 1950s"
Well, We're getting close, But sadly, I was still not alive. Regardless, I still would've stood up.
"So now in 2020, you can't stand up and say "Yeah. I think Black people matter." "
I'll say it again, Yes. I think black people matter. I'm absolutely all for standing on a corner protesting.
But I won't shut down a highway quite possibly full of people who are in agreement with me and have done nothing wrong. The problem with a movement this large, Is there are always bad apples who twist and distort its message to their own ends. Of course this isn't the majority, But they are there.
"Well, history is pretty clear."
Indeed. Nothing to add here.
"But sitting in neutrality is comfortable."
Read second.
"Maybe you think this is just a stupid fan site, so it doesn't matter. But if not here, behind your anonymity, then when?"
I do not think this is a "stupid fan site", And I do believe it matters. And, To quote something I said to Burn,
"I'm always one for a civil conversation about things like this."
"Think about your favorite characters. Not just from Transformers, but from any and all mediums. Think about what they would do."
I have. I don't know if you're familiar with classic X-Men, But I think this is a good analogy. I want to be Charles Xavier here, Not Max Eisenhardt.
Absolute Zero wrote:WonkoTheSane42 wrote:Not sure if this post is addressed to me, But I was the last one to post, So if it wasn't addressed to me, Just ignore the following response.
I'll start from the top of the post, And work my way down.
-
"When asked if you believe black people matter"
Of course black people matter. I've never said they don't, And I'll never say they don't.
Some of my friends and favorite people are black. Of course their lives matter.
"When your stance is neutral though"
Not sure if you've read my post on page 6 of this thread, But I am not neutral. As I told Burn, I'm simply not looking for a fight.
Yes black peoples lives have value, And they should be (I always have) treated as equals.
"When the first slaves arrived in America in 1619"
I would have stood up. Unfortunately, Despite my best efforts, I am not yet immortal. Sadly, That was 401 years ago, And I was not alive yet.
"When Jim Crow laws were put into place"
Read previous.
"When Civil Rights started in the 1950s"
Well, We're getting close, But sadly, I was still not alive. Regardless, I still would've stood up.
"So now in 2020, you can't stand up and say "Yeah. I think Black people matter." "
I'll say it again, Yes. I think black people matter. I'm absolutely all for standing on a corner protesting.
But I won't shut down a highway quite possibly full of people who are in agreement with me and have done nothing wrong. The problem with a movement this large, Is there are always bad apples who twist and distort its message to their own ends. Of course this isn't the majority, But they are there.
"Well, history is pretty clear."
Indeed. Nothing to add here.
"But sitting in neutrality is comfortable."
Read second.
"Maybe you think this is just a stupid fan site, so it doesn't matter. But if not here, behind your anonymity, then when?"
I do not think this is a "stupid fan site", And I do believe it matters. And, To quote something I said to Burn,
"I'm always one for a civil conversation about things like this."
"Think about your favorite characters. Not just from Transformers, but from any and all mediums. Think about what they would do."
I have. I don't know if you're familiar with classic X-Men, But I think this is a good analogy. I want to be Charles Xavier here, Not Max Eisenhardt.No, it wasn't addressed to you. I posted it as a general comment. Thanks for making it about you and trying to devalue the points.
Sorry if you think I was trying to devalue anything, Really. I was just trying to civilly state my feelings.Also, interesting choice, Xavier. The man who trained children to go and fight battles to protect humans and mutants. But that's cool. You don't want to fight.
But that's cool. You don't want to fight.
WonkoTheSane42 wrote:Not sure if you know but.. Xavier was paraplegic, And trained kids to protect a society that ultimately didn't even want them; In the hopes of realizing a future where you are not judged for your appearance, But rather your actions.But that's cool. You don't want to fight.
Maybe your right. Maybe we should fight. As you said, History is clear. And throughout it, Violence has solved everything.
Absolute Zero wrote: Funny, violence is how America was founded. Or did you miss the American Revolution which was preceded by a bunch of looters destroying property in the Boston Harbor?
WonkoTheSane42 wrote:Absolute Zero wrote: Funny, violence is how America was founded. Or did you miss the American Revolution which was preceded by a bunch of looters destroying property in the Boston Harbor?
Since you're just going to knock down strawmen, I will too.
I did indeed miss the American revolution, As I wasn't alive.
Absolute Zero wrote:WonkoTheSane42 wrote:Absolute Zero wrote: Funny, violence is how America was founded. Or did you miss the American Revolution which was preceded by a bunch of looters destroying property in the Boston Harbor?
Since you're just going to knock down strawmen, I will too.
I did indeed miss the American revolution, As I wasn't alive.
Well, if you were, you'd have plenty of time to have earned a lot of money. And maybe some education. Because you obviously don't know what a strawman argument is.
WonkoTheSane42 wrote:I said violence solves nothing. You changed the subject to the American Revolution, Which is not the same thing.
Burn wrote:I'm never clicking any of your links ever again.
Burn wrote:High Command is an arsehat.
High Command wrote:We know.
-Kanrabat- wrote:High Command wrote:We know.
Too many don't. Especially the rich Hollywood type who live in a mansion surrounded by a 12' high wall in their gated community.
¯\_(⏓ヘ⏓)_/¯
Burn wrote:-Kanrabat- wrote:High Command wrote:We know.
Too many don't. Especially the rich Hollywood type who live in a mansion surrounded by a 12' high wall in their gated community.
¯\_(⏓ヘ⏓)_/¯
I don't think any of them post or visit this site ...
-Kanrabat- wrote:they are "influencers" and too many sheep hang on their word.
.
-Kanrabat- wrote:too many sheep hang on their word.
Burn wrote:-Kanrabat- wrote:too many sheep hang on their word.
Oh please don't try telling us you're "woke" and not a "sheep".
Actually go right ahead and say it, people could enjoy a good laugh at your expense.
-Kanrabat- wrote:Psychopaths advocating and condoning violence aside,
Seibertron wrote:This is MY form of protesting.
Absolute Zero wrote:Also for gammons to lose their shyte over.
Absolute Zero wrote:God damn gammons. They'll use whatever racist and bigoted argument including making things up to keep their knee on the neck of black people.
Absolute Zero wrote:I'm done with you. Reply if you want, but I'm done giving space to proven ignorant racists and bigots and wasting breath responding. You're not worth my time.
Absolute Zero wrote:I know you think black lives matter conditionally, I'm trying to get you past that point.
...
Please do not quote me again. I no longer wish to speak down to your level. If you do, I will be forced to ask if that constitutes harassment.
Absolute Zero wrote:But that's cool. You don't want to fight.
Absolute Zero wrote:Funny, violence is how America was founded. Or did you miss the American Revolution which was preceded by a bunch of looters destroying property in the Boston Harbor?
ShadowKatt wrote:The other, more direct definition comes from the British lexicon. It's a new one, gaining popularity in the 2010s to refer insultingly to white people that also tend to lean conservative. As I understand it also has ties back to the first definition, so while I might have been reaching before I learned this definition I'm not now. You're using gammon to insulting call people white. I could probably think of a few other names that would do the same thing but this post is going to be on the edge enough without giving the mods more ammunition.
Burn wrote:I'm never clicking any of your links ever again.
Burn wrote:High Command is an arsehat.
High Command wrote:ShadowKatt wrote:The other, more direct definition comes from the British lexicon. It's a new one, gaining popularity in the 2010s to refer insultingly to white people that also tend to lean conservative. As I understand it also has ties back to the first definition, so while I might have been reaching before I learned this definition I'm not now. You're using gammon to insulting call people white. I could probably think of a few other names that would do the same thing but this post is going to be on the edge enough without giving the mods more ammunition.
Gammon is certainly a term of mockery but isn't against a race, rather the politics of people who have particularly nationalist views that they love to share with others.
The name comes from the particular shade of pink that old white men (who make up the overwhelming majority of this group in the UK) go when ranting about brexit and other right wing tropes or in faux outrage at being called out on something.
Not all white people are gammons, most gammons are white.
An example:
https://youtu.be/NfFrW4yDubc
Of the two white men in this very short video, one of them is a gammon the other is not.
ShadowKatt wrote:High Command wrote:ShadowKatt wrote:The other, more direct definition comes from the British lexicon. It's a new one, gaining popularity in the 2010s to refer insultingly to white people that also tend to lean conservative. As I understand it also has ties back to the first definition, so while I might have been reaching before I learned this definition I'm not now. You're using gammon to insulting call people white. I could probably think of a few other names that would do the same thing but this post is going to be on the edge enough without giving the mods more ammunition.
Gammon is certainly a term of mockery but isn't against a race, rather the politics of people who have particularly nationalist views that they love to share with others.
The name comes from the particular shade of pink that old white men (who make up the overwhelming majority of this group in the UK) go when ranting about brexit and other right wing tropes or in faux outrage at being called out on something.
Not all white people are gammons, most gammons are white.
An example:
https://youtu.be/NfFrW4yDubc
Of the two white men in this very short video, one of them is a gammon the other is not.
Hopefully you'll forgive me for not watching the video. I'm sure it makes a fine point but I got the definition from Dictionary.com ( https://www.dictionary.com/browse/gammon?s=t Definition Two) and Wikipedia, for what that's worth ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gammon_(insult) ). While I'm wary of using Wikipedia as a reference for anything, a cursory glance at the sources look reliable. Therefore while my point may lack nuance, as you pointed out, I believe it still stands.
Burn wrote:I'm never clicking any of your links ever again.
Burn wrote:High Command is an arsehat.
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