The Energon Pub

oooooooooooo



that's nice.

CURSE YE HASBLO! IN ANY AND ALL LANGUAGES I CAN THINK OF!!! (Including gibberish and Welsh)-(Oh wait, they're the same thing...)

Lord Crump wrote:oooooooooooo



that's nice.

CURSE YE HASBLO! IN ANY AND ALL LANGUAGES I CAN THINK OF!!! (Including gibberish and Welsh)-(Oh wait, they're the same thing...)

Okay, that is nice.

Darth Bombshell wrote:Yup, that's pretty much it. Though I would argue that this really started back in 2006 with the "Dawn of Future's Past" set. I mean, we got some stinkers (Rattrap and Dinobot immediately come to mind), but on the whole the majority of the figures produced then were wanted by pretty much everyone.

I wante that set so badly. Then they showed me Primal and I wanted it more.

Then Dinobot, and I said...ok..?

Then Cheetor, and I said...wait, wait...

Then Rhinox, and I said...Hey, what's going on? This isn't good.

Then Rattrap, who was good, but I no longer cared.

As bad as I wanted them when I heard the premise, the reality of the figures made me pass for the time being. Not to mention that I didn't have the money at the time (well, not really...)

I was upset over the price at the time. Not because of the actual price of $250, but because of what we were getting. Two basics in the set? Several figures who had reasonably better choices out there?

I mean, had they used Override for Cheetor and given the remolded head to Rhinox on RedAlert's old body, I'd have found a way to buy it. But they didn't so, I said, "Meh."

I think this is awesome. Hopefully everyone that got their undies twisted up about the wing mold will be ok with this.

Still going with the repaint idea. I have an MP Skywarp, an upgrade to XB360 Elite and some TF games to pay for that deserve the $279 price tag much more than this set.

When it comes to all toy collecting, Transfromers included, I hate exclusives/chases/and variants!!!

GetterDragun wrote:

Starscreams bad comedy wrote:$329 for a $10 figure......I'll pass.

Can anybody here do math? There are at least 5 figures in the set. If you get the non-atendee package for $279, that's about $55 a figure.

The point being the figure that I want is Thrust, mayeb Dirge, but even so, at $329 its not worth it for $20 worth of figures. Maybe if they were sold individually I might think about it.

Starscreams bad comedy wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:

Starscreams bad comedy wrote:$329 for a $10 figure......I'll pass.

Can anybody here do math? There are at least 5 figures in the set. If you get the non-atendee package for $279, that's about $55 a figure.

The point being the figure that I want is Thrust, mayeb Dirge, but even so, at $329 its not worth it for $20 worth of figures. Maybe if they were sold individually I might think about it.

Isn't resale an option, then, if you only want the 1 or 2 figures? Still seems worth it to me.

not bad nice of thrust.. as well.. nice..

TFBuyer wrote:

Starscreams bad comedy wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:

Starscreams bad comedy wrote:$329 for a $10 figure......I'll pass.

Can anybody here do math? There are at least 5 figures in the set. If you get the non-atendee package for $279, that's about $55 a figure.

The point being the figure that I want is Thrust, mayeb Dirge, but even so, at $329 its not worth it for $20 worth of figures. Maybe if they were sold individually I might think about it.

Isn't resale an option, then, if you only want the 1 or 2 figures? Still seems worth it to me.

Its not worth it to me because I'd personally be buying it for the Thrust remold and a straight repaint of Ramjet (which I think is included in this set). In the case of the Ramjet repaint, the money would be better spent on the original figure. That means I'd just be buying it for Trust, and no matter how bad I'd like to have it I just can't afford to drop $329 for one figure.

Starscreams bad comedy wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:

Starscreams bad comedy wrote:$329 for a $10 figure......I'll pass.

Can anybody here do math? There are at least 5 figures in the set. If you get the non-atendee package for $279, that's about $55 a figure.

The point being the figure that I want is Thrust, mayeb Dirge, but even so, at $329 its not worth it for $20 worth of figures. Maybe if they were sold individually I might think about it.

Where do you get $20 from? It's at least $60 worth of figures.

Hrms.

I'm actually one of those that would prefer to see Thrust's wings on his legs in Bot mode. That, plus the expense, means i'm probably going to custom a Ramjet into one of my own.

Doctor Paragon wrote:

Head Shot wrote:thank god i'm going!

Amen Brother!*



(*)Or Sister??)

brother, but I do appreciate the neutrality with the sister part

ShGarland_1383 wrote:

TFBuyer wrote:

Starscreams bad comedy wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:

Starscreams bad comedy wrote:$329 for a $10 figure......I'll pass.

Can anybody here do math? There are at least 5 figures in the set. If you get the non-atendee package for $279, that's about $55 a figure.

The point being the figure that I want is Thrust, mayeb Dirge, but even so, at $329 its not worth it for $20 worth of figures. Maybe if they were sold individually I might think about it.

Isn't resale an option, then, if you only want the 1 or 2 figures? Still seems worth it to me.

Its not worth it to me because I'd personally be buying it for the Thrust remold and a straight repaint of Ramjet (which I think is included in this set). In the case of the Ramjet repaint, the money would be better spent on the original figure. That means I'd just be buying it for Trust, and no matter how bad I'd like to have it I just can't afford to drop $329 for one figure.

No--I get that. I wouldn't pay that for one figure either... What I mean is, if you only want Thrust, just keep Thrust and sell the rest on e-bay or to people here. Given the amount some might be willing to pay for one of these figures, you could end up breaking even or even coming out ahead before all is said and done.

If I'm oversimplifying or missing your point, I apologize. I totally understand the size of a $329 hurdle when you just have hope on the other side that you can sell and make a profit...

I hope that I can get Dirge, Thrust and Thundercracker to fullfill the seeker collection even without going to the Botcon Convention, it would be hard to going there when i live in Luxembourg....

While it was appreciated that a Botcon level collector could see the point of view of the (so to speak) average level collector (the one's who have been the loudest in crying foul), it does not appear to have been appreciated by many of the average collectors on why these would not economically be a good risk for HASBRO to release in any way to general brick and mortar stores...

I see many points of view here, and sympathize to those who cannot afford the set, whether they go to Botcon or not. Unfortunately you will be stuck making a choice and paying about 6 or 7 times a retail store price for one of them...if you really want it.

What baffles me is why those who can afford it are crying foul to HASBRO for allowing the official collector's club to produce a set of figures that are very desirable to collectors.

I am not sure why I read these threads when they get going, because the same things get repeated over and over, and no one concedes that the other side is correct.

It changes from a thread about the nice design of the figure to basically...screw HASBRO for supposedly screwing us, the TF collectors, because we are obviously the only ones that line their pockets with so much cash that they can afford to use $100 bills to light their cigarettes.

Truth be told, in the last year, most of my 'collector' money has not gone to HASBRO, but to individual's reselling vintage collectibles (*cough* Atreyu *cough*), which in the resale market, HASBRO gets none of.

Sure I did buy one of each of the CLASSICs (maybe two here or there), or Titanium, but that amounts to about: Titaniums... 6 x $15 = $90, and CLASSICS... maybe $250-$300... 8 x $10 = $80, 5 x $20 = $100, 1 x $40, 6 x $7...

$250 ish... if I bought two of each (which I did not), $500, over the course of one year... $500/12 = $42 a month.

I just am not sure that the average collector, even if they collect one of everything, or two of everything in the line...which most don't--most pick and choose--, spends enough at retail for HASBRO to focus on them in all of their decisions.

They make decisions based on profit projections, and they are smart, smart enough to know that it is children and families who support them most, not picky, whiny collectors--(Star Wars Transformers anyone?). However, they are also smart enough to know that they should not alienate collectors--that they should throw them a bone once in awhile-- Like the CLASSICS line, and the Titanium 6 inch WWI homages, or the Alternators.

I just see this situation as HASBRO was completely done with the CLASSICs molds, focusing on everything they were doing with the movie, knowing full well they needed to go back to another cartoon based line after the movie, to make sure to keep the kids interested. They probably were happy that Fun Publications (TFCC) wanted to use the old molds in a way that would make them more money, where they (Hasbro) did not really have to be involved much beyond design approval, and there was not a large commitment to repaints that they would have a hard time moving in any meaningful capacity at retail, or even specialty retail.

While we do not need to agree with everything that HASBRO says and does, we do need to try to understand the motivations behind their moves and that all decisions are based on making money, and how they can minimalize costs, and still maximize profits-- not how they can keep collectors happy--.

Supply and demand drives any market, as do trends. It is not collectors that drive the market.

We do not know. Perhaps they had focus groups of children, perhaps they did try throwing more repaints at them to see if they would like those, and perhaps the information they received back was not good enough to support them going forward with the CLASSICs, and CLASSICs repaints after the movie was over.

You can almost be assured that their data pointed toward the after movie stuff, being related to or similar to the movie toys...you can also be assured that they have not forgotten about the collectors, but that they will be doing what is best for their company.

HASBRO actually probably thought that they were doing a majority of the collectors a favor by allowing the characters to be made available at all.

tigertracks 24 wrote:While it was appreciated that a Botcon level collector could see the point of view of the (so to speak) average level collector (the one's who have been the loudest in crying foul), it does not appear to have been appreciated by many of the average collectors on why these would not economically be a good risk for HASBRO to release in any way to general brick and mortar stores...

I see many points of view here, and sympathize to those who cannot afford the set, whether they go to Botcon or not. Unfortunately you will be stuck making a choice and paying about 6 or 7 times a retail store price for one of them...if you really want it.

What baffles me is why those who can afford it are crying foul to HASBRO for allowing the official collector's club to produce a set of figures that are very desirable to collectors.

I am not sure why I read these threads when they get going, because the same things get repeated over and over, and no one concedes that the other side is correct.

It changes from a thread about the nice design of the figure to basically...screw HASBRO for supposedly screwing us, the TF collectors, because we are obviously the only ones that line their pockets with so much cash that they can afford to use $100 bills to light their cigarettes.

Truth be told, in the last year, most of my 'collector' money has not gone to HASBRO, but to individual's reselling vintage collectibles (*cough* Atreyu *cough*), which in the resale market, HASBRO gets none of.

Sure I did buy one of each of the CLASSICs (maybe two here or there), or Titanium, but that amounts to about: Titaniums... 6 x $15 = $90, and CLASSICS... maybe $250-$300... 8 x $10 = $80, 5 x $20 = $100, 1 x $40, 6 x $7...

$250 ish... if I bought two of each (which I did not), $500, over the course of one year... $500/12 = $42 a month.

I just am not sure that the average collector, even if they collect one of everything, or two of everything in the line...which most don't--most pick and choose--, spends enough at retail for HASBRO to focus on them in all of their decisions.

They make decisions based on profit projections, and they are smart, smart enough to know that it is children and families who support them most, not picky, whiny collectors--(Star Wars Transformers anyone?). However, they are also smart enough to know that they should not alienate collectors--that they should throw them a bone once in awhile-- Like the CLASSICS line, and the Titanium 6 inch WWI homages, or the Alternators.

I just see this situation as HASBRO was completely done with the CLASSICs molds, focusing on everything they were doing with the movie, knowing full well they needed to go back to another cartoon based line after the movie, to make sure to keep the kids interested. They probably were happy that Fun Publications (TFCC) wanted to use the old molds in a way that would make them more money, where they (Hasbro) did not really have to be involved much beyond design approval, and there was not a large commitment to repaints that they would have a hard time moving in any meaningful capacity at retail, or even specialty retail.

While we do not need to agree with everything that HASBRO says and does, we do need to try to understand the motivations behind their moves and that all decisions are based on making money, and how they can minimalize costs, and still maximize profits-- not how they can keep collectors happy--.

Supply and demand drives any market, as do trends. It is not collectors that drive the market.

We do not know. Perhaps they had focus groups of children, perhaps they did try throwing more repaints at them to see if they would like those, and perhaps the information they received back was not good enough to support them going forward with the CLASSICs, and CLASSICs repaints after the movie was over.

You can almost be assured that their data pointed toward the after movie stuff, being related to or similar to the movie toys...you can also be assured that they have not forgotten about the collectors, but that they will be doing what is best for their company.

HASBRO actually probably thought that they were doing a majority of the collectors a favor by allowing the characters to be made available at all.

Agreed. I know it's a sore spot, but if you can't afford it, you shouldn't be buying it. Let's be fair. And really, how hard will it be to repaint the toys? And to change some wings on Thrust? Not that hard really.

I'm just waiting for somebody to tell me that I don't get it, and that somehow collector's need to be the focus of HASBRO's thoughts...

I don't think it has anything to do with the difficulty of creating the repaints/remolds of the jets. I think it has to do with the company moving on, and not having any way planned in the near future to be able to release these to the general public, in any way that makes sense to them from the company's mission's point of view (being profitable being a part of it, I am sure).

tigertracks 24 wrote:I'm just waiting for somebody to tell me that I don't get it, and that somehow collector's need to be the focus of HASBRO's thoughts...

I don't think it has anything to do with the difficulty of creating the repaints/remolds of the jets. I think it has to do with the company moving on, and not having any way planned in the near future to be able to release these to the general public, in any way that makes sense to them from the company's mission's point of view (being profitable being a part of it, I am sure).

I agree with you, for the most part. I'm glad you're using other examples of business decision making besides the "Repaints don't sell at retail, we should be happy" argument.

I think Hasbro a) didn't want to compete with their own movie toys and b) didn't want to spend more on TF's this year, with so much being spent already. They have a budget, and it can be surmised that with movie toys and Heroes, they might be approaching the fiscal cap for 07. A 4th wave of classics may have gotten scrapped for that very reason. It also just could be marketing. Botcon gets the seekers, more people want the seekers, making Botcon a more successful venture this year.
More people at Botcon = more people watching the movie at Botcon, and hopefully happy fanboys help drive word-of-mouth buzz the week before the movie release. More successful movie = higher toy sales.

As for the 'repaints at retail' argument, toys account for a very small percentage of profit from any of the large retailers. Hasbro charges 65-75% of retail price to all the major chains, other manufacturers charge more (Wal-mart makes about $.50 a piece on any of the Mcfarlane toys). As long as they return an average of 40-50% sale thru per quarter, across the brand, the line will be reordered by the vendors. Wal-mart doesn't really care if you buy toys; it cares that when you go in to buy a toy, you remember you need milk, toilet paper, and oh yeah, that sale on cd-r's really is too good to pass up.

But I disagree slightly on the 'collectors don't drive the market' statement. Fiscal reports from the major toy retailers indicate a trend in 'aging consumers' (us) purchasing more of the higher end releases, and a need to cater to that market. The Alternator line and the Masterpiece line are perfect examples. In that vein, I sorta see the Botcon seeker set as a market test. If sales numbers are good, then Hasbro may see a market in returning to G1 designs and upping the price for smaller run, specialty market or hasbrotoyshop releases. My theory, and I hope I'm wrong, is an exec meeting at Hasbro where they're discussing not how successful the Classics line was, but how they should have charged more, because the target demographic for the line has changed.

Seriously though, thanks for the well thought out post.

I will own that Thrust

Exulted Unicron wrote:I will own that Thrust

Technically, I already do!

Asderiphel wrote:

tigertracks 24 wrote:I'm just waiting for somebody to tell me that I don't get it, and that somehow collector's need to be the focus of HASBRO's thoughts...

I don't think it has anything to do with the difficulty of creating the repaints/remolds of the jets. I think it has to do with the company moving on, and not having any way planned in the near future to be able to release these to the general public, in any way that makes sense to them from the company's mission's point of view (being profitable being a part of it, I am sure).

I agree with you, for the most part. I'm glad you're using other examples of business decision making besides the "Repaints don't sell at retail, we should be happy" argument.

I think Hasbro a) didn't want to compete with their own movie toys and b) didn't want to spend more on TF's this year, with so much being spent already. They have a budget, and it can be surmised that with movie toys and Heroes, they might be approaching the fiscal cap for 07. A 4th wave of classics may have gotten scrapped for that very reason. It also just could be marketing. Botcon gets the seekers, more people want the seekers, making Botcon a more successful venture this year.
More people at Botcon = more people watching the movie at Botcon, and hopefully happy fanboys help drive word-of-mouth buzz the week before the movie release. More successful movie = higher toy sales.

As for the 'repaints at retail' argument, toys account for a very small percentage of profit from any of the large retailers. Hasbro charges 65-75% of retail price to all the major chains, other manufacturers charge more (Wal-mart makes about $.50 a piece on any of the Mcfarlane toys). As long as they return an average of 40-50% sale thru per quarter, across the brand, the line will be reordered by the vendors. Wal-mart doesn't really care if you buy toys; it cares that when you go in to buy a toy, you remember you need milk, toilet paper, and oh yeah, that sale on cd-r's really is too good to pass up.

But I disagree slightly on the 'collectors don't drive the market' statement. Fiscal reports from the major toy retailers indicate a trend in 'aging consumers' (us) purchasing more of the higher end releases, and a need to cater to that market. The Alternator line and the Masterpiece line are perfect examples. In that vein, I sorta see the Botcon seeker set as a market test. If sales numbers are good, then Hasbro may see a market in returning to G1 designs and upping the price for smaller run, specialty market or hasbrotoyshop releases. My theory, and I hope I'm wrong, is an exec meeting at Hasbro where they're discussing not how successful the Classics line was, but how they should have charged more, because the target demographic for the line has changed.

Seriously though, thanks for the well thought out post.

You're welcome and thanks back at you...

I don't disagree that HASBRO thinks collectors are important, but up until the CLASSICs the only way we really knew was due to Alternators, and various homages.

Now we know that they do see us as important to have around...but I still do not like the argument/attention that has been prevalent that they need to pay attention to us, or they'll go broke. It's not right, and should not be used to argue without further explanation (like you did!).

The thing is HASBRO doesn't care if Walmart, etc. sell the other junk, they just care that they can have something affordable and eye catching in that type of store so people (and their children) can make those purchases while they do that other shopping.

I do believe the statement 'repaints without some sort of story, comic, cartoon, or commercials to support them will not sell well to children and the non fans'.

Anyway, thanks again, for well thought out statements...

I like Thrust,Thundercracker and Durge thats why I'm saving up all the money I can to get them

Also, for you fan out there disgraced that Hasbro would do this why don't you get off your asses and do something about it.Just don't sit around saying this is stupid and idiotic, do something about it already!