Optimus21577 wrote:For those that are against them, I'm sorry that your concern for the value of your collection is stopping you from enjoying these.
TreyTable wrote:Bear with my ignorance, but I do not know the consensus of this subject. It seems clear that Takara Tomy nor Hasbro is making an Encore Scorponok, so if there's to be a reasonably priced KO on the market, is it a bad thing?
TreyTable wrote:I have some KO's in my personal collection; mainly because Hasbro and their retail store exclusives are always gone from shelves way to quick, at least in this one horse town.
TreyTable wrote:But I have a KO G1 Shockwave, which was $100, that is just as wonderful as the Shockwave I had as a kid, and I have a CHMS V2 Generations "Skywarp," which was $30 since Hasbro has yet to re-release the Skywarp Target exclusive. Is this frowned upon as well?
TreyTable wrote:Lastly there's the third party thing. If a KO Scorponok is bad, then where do things like iGear's Seekers come in?
craggy wrote:but are there a lot of people out there who aren't pretty reasonably informed who're hunting for a G1 Scorponok? I kinda doubt it.
craggy wrote:but are there a lot of people out there who aren't pretty reasonably informed who're hunting for a G1 Scorponok? I kinda doubt it.
Seibertron wrote:Optimus21577 wrote:For those that are against them, I'm sorry that your concern for the value of your collection is stopping you from enjoying these.
I agreed with a lot of what you said except his really struck me as something that I needed to comment on. I don't think any of us in this topic that are adamant against counterfeit Transformers products have made any statement about being concerned about what that does to the value of our figures. While the impact of counterfeit Transformers products on the brand as a whole does concern me, I have never collected because of the value of my collection. If I was truly concerned about the value of it, I would be adamant against reissues (which I am not against). I dropped down $5,000 between Black Zarak and Grand Maximus in 2011. I would be one of the first people in line to get an official reissue of either of those magnificent figures/sets though I would strongly oppose a counterfeit of either of those figures.
craggy wrote:but are there a lot of people out there who aren't pretty reasonably informed who're hunting for a G1 Scorponok? I kinda doubt it.
Seibertron wrote:Omega-1 wrote:Seibertron wrote:That's not a fair comparison. Cubic Zirconia is sold as Cubic Zirconia and it doesn't get sold in the same original packaging as actual diamonds. If the people making these KO products just wanted to bring replica Transformers products to market, there would be no need to release them in packaging that was as a near identical package to the original. If the counterfeit products were sold in packaging that was unique to those products, that would be one thing. But the fact that the counterfeit products are sold in replica packaging clearly shows the intention of these people which is to confuse and take advantage of uninformed collectors.
So, are you saying that you would be OK with KOs if they were in different packaging? I would be OK with that. But obviously, if the packaging were thrown away, a resell of the KO could still be mistaken for an authentic Transformer, just like a cz resell could be mistaken for a diamond if the seller were not honest or was unaware.
I wouldn't personally be OK with KOs if they were sold in different packaging. I'm sticking to my morals on this one. However, if the KOs were sold in non-identical packaging, it would make it seem less obvious that the counterfeit products are meant to deceive consumers.Rated X wrote:Holy freakin s**t !!!! What did I start ???
A good healthy discussion on a message board. It's nice to see people so staunchly defending their views. Thank you.Rated X wrote:I just wish all those who buy KO windshield wipers and printer cartridges would let this silly argument go. Everyone deserves a little G1 goodness and sometimes an affordable option is good for those who have other expenses. Nearly all my G1 stuff is original, but a quality KO can sometimes fill a void for an average fan.
Except KO windshield wipers and printer cartridges don't come in identical packaging and even the items themselves are not identical with brand name logos on them (at least not to my knowledge). The problem with the counterfeit Transformers toys is that it is very obvious that their intention is to deceive consumers and make a lot of money off this deception which is really unfortunate.
KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:craggy wrote:but are there a lot of people out there who aren't pretty reasonably informed who're hunting for a G1 Scorponok? I kinda doubt it.
I disagree. I have a friend who is an avid fan, and was completely unaware of the KO flowing in the market. And if I was not the one noting it to him, he would have a lot o KOs in his collection while believing that they are the real deal.
So I think there is a great deal who are not aware of this issue.
Seibertron wrote:craggy wrote:but are there a lot of people out there who aren't pretty reasonably informed who're hunting for a G1 Scorponok? I kinda doubt it.
500,000 unique visitors visit Seibertron.com on a monthly basis according to our Google Analytics traffic stats. Less than 1,000 of that number are regularly active on our forums. I do not expect the majority of those 500,000 people, most of whom I assume are casual fans, to have as much trivial knowledge as the die-hard fans.
craggy wrote:but are there a lot of people out there who aren't pretty reasonably informed who're hunting for a G1 Scorponok? I kinda doubt it.
Seibertron wrote:craggy wrote:but are there a lot of people out there who aren't pretty reasonably informed who're hunting for a G1 Scorponok? I kinda doubt it.
500,000 unique visitors visit Seibertron.com on a monthly basis according to our Google Analytics traffic stats. Less than 1,000 of that number are regularly active on our forums. I do not expect the majority of those 500,000 people, most of whom I assume are casual fans, to have as much trivial knowledge as the die-hard fans.
That Bot wrote:Seibertron wrote:craggy wrote:but are there a lot of people out there who aren't pretty reasonably informed who're hunting for a G1 Scorponok? I kinda doubt it.
500,000 unique visitors visit Seibertron.com on a monthly basis according to our Google Analytics traffic stats. Less than 1,000 of that number are regularly active on our forums. I do not expect the majority of those 500,000 people, most of whom I assume are casual fans, to have as much trivial knowledge as the die-hard fans.
But not all of those 500k are hunting for a G1 Scorponok, or are in some way actively looking for some vintage or reissue G1 toy. I do not mean to suggest that, because some people are able to tell the difference between legitimate releases and knockoffs that the KO market is acceptable, but merely to point out that your response does not exactly address craggy's point.
Omega-1 wrote:I understand that there are people that only want originals or that there are people that might be confused about whether something is an unofficial replica or authentic Transformer, but there are also a lot of people that want these unofficial replica Transformers that may never be reproduced by Hasbro or Takara Tomy.
I don't have any official numbers but I'm certain that people who are buying the KOs and knowing that they are KOs outnumber (probably by a lot) the people who are accidently buying KOs thinking they are authentic Transformers. If this is the case, you are trying to protect a small number of people to screw over a larger number of people. I'm not saying that it's right to swindle those small number of people but people who don't want KOs on the market need to see the impact of the other side as well.
craggy wrote:That Bot wrote:Seibertron wrote:craggy wrote:but are there a lot of people out there who aren't pretty reasonably informed who're hunting for a G1 Scorponok? I kinda doubt it.
500,000 unique visitors visit Seibertron.com on a monthly basis according to our Google Analytics traffic stats. Less than 1,000 of that number are regularly active on our forums. I do not expect the majority of those 500,000 people, most of whom I assume are casual fans, to have as much trivial knowledge as the die-hard fans.
But not all of those 500k are hunting for a G1 Scorponok, or are in some way actively looking for some vintage or reissue G1 toy. I do not mean to suggest that, because some people are able to tell the difference between legitimate releases and knockoffs that the KO market is acceptable, but merely to point out that your response does not exactly address craggy's point.
nope. All casual fans including people who're clicking links in search engines for info about the Michael Bay films and are otherwise uninterested in Transfomers, all of them want G1 Scorponok. And why wouldn't they? he's awesome!
Omega-1 wrote:I don't have any official numbers but I'm certain that people who are buying the KOs and knowing that they are KOs outnumber (probably by a lot) the people who are accidently buying KOs thinking they are authentic Transformers. If this is the case, you are trying to protect a small number of people to screw over a larger number of people. I'm not saying that it's right to swindle those small number of people but people who don't want KOs on the market need to see the impact of the other side as well.
njb902 wrote:Omega-1 wrote:I understand that there are people that only want originals or that there are people that might be confused about whether something is an unofficial replica or authentic Transformer, but there are also a lot of people that want these unofficial replica Transformers that may never be reproduced by Hasbro or Takara Tomy.
I don't have any official numbers but I'm certain that people who are buying the KOs and knowing that they are KOs outnumber (probably by a lot) the people who are accidently buying KOs thinking they are authentic Transformers. If this is the case, you are trying to protect a small number of people to screw over a larger number of people. I'm not saying that it's right to swindle those small number of people but people who don't want KOs on the market need to see the impact of the other side as well.
Well that pretty well sums up how majorities treat minorities.
Seibertron wrote:I'm sure you've got the stats flipped. Considering the number of casual Transformers fans out there, I'm certain that the number of people buying the counterfeit Transformers far outweigh the fans that are intentionally buying those items. Especially when you look at the numbers for Seibertron.com and even when you look at how few "die-hards" attend BotCon compared to the number of fans that are out there. The counterfeit Transformers aren't put in identical packaging just to make fans feel good. It's done so it confuses the market and innocent collectors or casual fans end up buying them because they think it's the real thing. It's a deceptive practice. All of you who don't see the bigger picture are fooling yourselves or you've been fooled by this form of marketing and methods that the counterfeit companies utilize. Or you just don't care. Ignorance is bliss, which seems to be the acceptable response from those in favor of counterfeits regarding consumers unknowingly being fooled by these deceptive practices.
Omega-1 wrote:njb902 wrote:Omega-1 wrote:I understand that there are people that only want originals or that there are people that might be confused about whether something is an unofficial replica or authentic Transformer, but there are also a lot of people that want these unofficial replica Transformers that may never be reproduced by Hasbro or Takara Tomy.
I don't have any official numbers but I'm certain that people who are buying the KOs and knowing that they are KOs outnumber (probably by a lot) the people who are accidently buying KOs thinking they are authentic Transformers. If this is the case, you are trying to protect a small number of people to screw over a larger number of people. I'm not saying that it's right to swindle those small number of people but people who don't want KOs on the market need to see the impact of the other side as well.
Well that pretty well sums up how majorities treat minorities.
You are missing the entire point. The people who collect KOs acknowledge that swindling people is wrong and want to help educate people from being swindled. The side that wants KOs off the market refuse to acknowledge there are lot of people out there that want KOs and that taking them off the market would screw these people over. Either that or they don't care that these people get screwed over.
Seibertron wrote:Omega-1 wrote:I don't have any official numbers but I'm certain that people who are buying the KOs and knowing that they are KOs outnumber (probably by a lot) the people who are accidently buying KOs thinking they are authentic Transformers. If this is the case, you are trying to protect a small number of people to screw over a larger number of people. I'm not saying that it's right to swindle those small number of people but people who don't want KOs on the market need to see the impact of the other side as well.
I'm sure you've got the stats flipped. Considering the number of casual Transformers fans out there, I'm certain that the number of people buying the counterfeit Transformers far outweigh the fans that are intentionally buying those items. Especially when you look at the numbers for Seibertron.com and even when you look at how few "die-hards" attend BotCon compared to the number of fans that are out there. The counterfeit Transformers aren't put in identical packaging just to make fans feel good. It's done so it confuses the market and innocent collectors or casual fans end up buying them because they think it's the real thing. It's a deceptive practice. All of you who don't see the bigger picture are fooling yourselves or you've been fooled by this form of marketing and methods that the counterfeit companies utilize. Or you just don't care. Ignorance is bliss, which seems to be the acceptable response from those in favor of counterfeits regarding consumers unknowingly being fooled by these deceptive practices.
Omega-1 wrote:You are missing the entire point. The people who collect KOs acknowledge that swindling people is wrong and want to help educate people from being swindled. The side that wants KOs off the market refuse to acknowledge there are lot of people out there that want KOs and that taking them off the market would screw these people over. Either that or they don't care that these people get screwed over.
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