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njb902 wrote:Omega-1 wrote:njb902 wrote:Omega-1 wrote:I understand that there are people that only want originals or that there are people that might be confused about whether something is an unofficial replica or authentic Transformer, but there are also a lot of people that want these unofficial replica Transformers that may never be reproduced by Hasbro or Takara Tomy.
I don't have any official numbers but I'm certain that people who are buying the KOs and knowing that they are KOs outnumber (probably by a lot) the people who are accidently buying KOs thinking they are authentic Transformers. If this is the case, you are trying to protect a small number of people to screw over a larger number of people. I'm not saying that it's right to swindle those small number of people but people who don't want KOs on the market need to see the impact of the other side as well.
Well that pretty well sums up how majorities treat minorities.
You are missing the entire point. The people who collect KOs acknowledge that swindling people is wrong and want to help educate people from being swindled. The side that wants KOs off the market refuse to acknowledge there are lot of people out there that want KOs and that taking them off the market would screw these people over. Either that or they don't care that these people get screwed over.
You can talk all you want about "understanding" that it sucks for people to get screwed over, but in the end as long as you get yours it's okay.
Seibertron wrote:An inability to buy counterfeit products is not "getting screwed over" as you put it. You can buy the originals like those of us who worked very hard to obtain them. Getting screwed over when it comes to collectibles is flat out being denied the opportunity to ever buy them. Lack of willingness to pay for the prices that original/official figures go for does not equal getting screwed over if counterfeit products didn't or ceased to exist.
Optimus21577 wrote: Sad to say there are going to be people that get scammed, it doesn't matter what I or anyone here thinks or feels about the subject. We only have the ability to control ourselves. Helping to make it common knowledge though is a great way to lesson that number though. Though, I'm sorry, but a large number of the visitors to this site, are not collectors. And the ones that are should have enough common sense to know a MISB Scorponok is not $120. I don't know cars, but im gonna guess that I cant get a 65 chevy mint for $1000, lol.
I have sold hundreds if not thousands of the G1 Repros and never once ran across a single customer that had mistaken them for vintage. (I have had people ask, but never turn around and go, dohh, my bad I thought I paid $65 for a mint Sunstreaker that was 30 years old. I mean, seriously??
And I only do it as a hobby, I work full time, so what are the numbers of sales for the places that sell them full time, that advertise and all that good stuff?
We can guess all night, anybody interested in doing a poll and asking people this question? It has to have at least 1 to 5 thousand people participating to really have any merit though. Just a thought.
Seibertron wrote:Optimus21577 wrote: Sad to say there are going to be people that get scammed, it doesn't matter what I or anyone here thinks or feels about the subject. We only have the ability to control ourselves. Helping to make it common knowledge though is a great way to lesson that number though. Though, I'm sorry, but a large number of the visitors to this site, are not collectors. And the ones that are should have enough common sense to know a MISB Scorponok is not $120. I don't know cars, but im gonna guess that I cant get a 65 chevy mint for $1000, lol.
I have sold hundreds if not thousands of the G1 Repros and never once ran across a single customer that had mistaken them for vintage. (I have had people ask, but never turn around and go, dohh, my bad I thought I paid $65 for a mint Sunstreaker that was 30 years old. I mean, seriously??
And I only do it as a hobby, I work full time, so what are the numbers of sales for the places that sell them full time, that advertise and all that good stuff?
We can guess all night, anybody interested in doing a poll and asking people this question? It has to have at least 1 to 5 thousand people participating to really have any merit though. Just a thought.
If TransformersEmporium.com is your website, YOU are part of the problem.
http://www.transformersemporium.com/
Where do you mention that these counterfeit Transformers products are "reissues" (as some of you like to call them) or KOs or let's just call them exactly what they are ... counterfeits. By not stating any of that, you are indeed preying upon consumers. It is nothing but deception.
Omega-1 wrote:And this brings me back to my point about being elitist. You are telling people that if they can't afford the outrageous prices of originals then it's too bad for you.
Optimus21577 wrote:Excuse me? I'm part of the problem?? It's bigots like you that are the real problem. I have never sold anything to anyone that didn't know exactly what they were getting! I have hundreds of feedback to prove it. What do you have??
Made up stats that prove nothing! So shove it!
Optimus21577 wrote:
Excuse me? I'm part of the problem?? It's bigots like you that are the real problem. I have never sold anything to anyone that didn't know exactly what they were getting! I have hundreds of feedback to prove it. What do you have??
Made up stats that prove nothing! So shove it!Seibertron wrote:Optimus21577 wrote: Sad to say there are going to be people that get scammed, it doesn't matter what I or anyone here thinks or feels about the subject. We only have the ability to control ourselves. Helping to make it common knowledge though is a great way to lesson that number though. Though, I'm sorry, but a large number of the visitors to this site, are not collectors. And the ones that are should have enough common sense to know a MISB Scorponok is not $120. I don't know cars, but im gonna guess that I cant get a 65 chevy mint for $1000, lol.
I have sold hundreds if not thousands of the G1 Repros and never once ran across a single customer that had mistaken them for vintage. (I have had people ask, but never turn around and go, dohh, my bad I thought I paid $65 for a mint Sunstreaker that was 30 years old. I mean, seriously??
And I only do it as a hobby, I work full time, so what are the numbers of sales for the places that sell them full time, that advertise and all that good stuff?
We can guess all night, anybody interested in doing a poll and asking people this question? It has to have at least 1 to 5 thousand people participating to really have any merit though. Just a thought.
If TransformersEmporium.com is your website, YOU are part of the problem.
http://www.transformersemporium.com/
Where do you mention that these counterfeit Transformers products are "reissues" (as some of you like to call them) or KOs or let's just call them exactly what they are ... counterfeits. By not stating any of that, you are indeed preying upon consumers. It is nothing but deception.
Seibertron wrote:Optimus21577 wrote:Excuse me? I'm part of the problem?? It's bigots like you that are the real problem. I have never sold anything to anyone that didn't know exactly what they were getting! I have hundreds of feedback to prove it. What do you have??
Made up stats that prove nothing! So shove it!
You are something else calling me a "bigot". Your misuse or lack of understanding of the word is unfortunate.
If you want to prove that you are not part of the problem, then change the descriptions on your website to state what those products really are instead of preying upon uninformed customers.
Optimus21577 wrote:
Transformers/Hasbro & Takara are Copyrighted Trademarks and Not Owned By Myself~ Reproduction & 3rd Party Items are only Purchased & Redistributed to fans who do not have these readily available in their area. Thank you. And take care. Till All Are One!
This has always been on my sites front page.. Or maybe its the new items page about preorders that sometimes confuse people. ??????
Optimus21577 wrote:You have a lot of nerve. Site owner, I had you pegged earlier didn't I???
"It kills you because your afraid it hurts the value of your collection."
I'm glad we cleared that up because this conversation is over!"
Seibertron wrote:Even on Transformers Emporium's Facebook page, the intention to deceive consumers continues by stating that Transformers Emporium sells "Transformers reissues". I don't see any mention of the words "knock off", "counterfeit", "unofficial" or even "reproduction" on the Facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/reissues.transformersemporium
Edit: I just realized that even the Facebook username (reissues.transformersemporium) is deceptive by having the word "reissues" in it. Wow! Transformers Emporium is not helping the cause of those who want to argue for the counterfeit market at all. It's actually really just proving the point of those of us who are against the counterfeit Transformers market.
Seibertron wrote:Omega-1 wrote:And this brings me back to my point about being elitist. You are telling people that if they can't afford the outrageous prices of originals then it's too bad for you.
I worked very hard to obtain my collection fair and square. If working hard to put food on my family's table and having enough leftover to buy the items I desire for my collection make me elitist as you call it, then so be it.
Optimus21577 wrote:Once again, your ignorance knows no bounds..
That is a page generated my Intuit which I have no control over the info put in there because its fill in automatically from my sites info.
But if you had hit the about button and then the see all.
OMG.. What does it say, yep, it clearly states that these are not vintage.
And now we all know the intelligence behind this site which obviously ran by a Hasbro brown noser. So, you wanna look dumber than you've already made yourself out to be or would you like to continue??
Gauntlet101010 wrote:An expencive KO is still a luxury item.
Omega-1 wrote:Gauntlet101010 wrote:An expencive KO is still a luxury item.
Of course all toys are luxury items. But I mean luxury item in the context of the hobby.
Omega-1 wrote:Gauntlet101010 wrote:An expencive KO is still a luxury item.
Of course all toys are luxury items. But I mean luxury item in the context of the hobby.
Seibertron wrote:I think you have done a fine job of stating all that needs to be said. Thank you.
Gauntlet101010 wrote:Omega-1 wrote:Gauntlet101010 wrote:An expencive KO is still a luxury item.
Of course all toys are luxury items. But I mean luxury item in the context of the hobby.
This entire hobby is o ne biiiiiiiig luxury item. It's really not a case of the haves VS the have-nots.
Omega-1 wrote:Seibertron wrote:I think you have done a fine job of stating all that needs to be said. Thank you.
I think it's unfair to judge Optimus21577 as trying to deceive people when you don't know him and you don't know his intentions. It is enough to tell him that the use of "reissue" is insufficient to tell people that the toys are a "counterfeit". You can suggest for him to call them "unofficial reproductions" or something like that.
He is trying to sell his items so asking him to call them "counterfeit" doesn't sound reasonable to me. "Counterfeit" give the connotation of cheap quality items (unless his items are of cheap quality). Hopefully, he will understand that and change the wording on list sale items.
Seibertron wrote:Omega-1 wrote:Seibertron wrote:I think you have done a fine job of stating all that needs to be said. Thank you.
I think it's unfair to judge Optimus21577 as trying to deceive people when you don't know him and you don't know his intentions. It is enough to tell him that the use of "reissue" is insufficient to tell people that the toys are a "counterfeit". You can suggest for him to call them "unofficial reproductions" or something like that.
He is trying to sell his items so asking him to call them "counterfeit" doesn't sound reasonable to me. "Counterfeit" give the connotation of cheap quality items (unless his items are of cheap quality). Hopefully, he will understand that and change the wording on list sale items.
You are correct. I should've stated that by not disclosing that information on the item pages could be perceived as deceptive by many people. I assumed that not disclosing that information on the individual item pages was deliberate or intentional. Perhaps it was simply overlooked and an honest mistake. I'll give Optimus21577 and hope that he will understand my point and change the information accordingly for the sake of transparency about the items that he is selling.
Omega-1 wrote:Gauntlet101010 wrote:Omega-1 wrote:Gauntlet101010 wrote:An expencive KO is still a luxury item.
Of course all toys are luxury items. But I mean luxury item in the context of the hobby.
This entire hobby is o ne biiiiiiiig luxury item. It's really not a case of the haves VS the have-nots.
Is that not what I just said? The hobby is toys and toys are luxury items. But relatively speaking a $50 KO complete G1 Wheeljack is less expensive than a $150 complete original Wheeljack. Lets compare apples to apples and not compare that to a recent retail deluxe release.
Optimus21577 wrote:
Change what again??? Try and read the whole page before you slander someone maybe?
Yea.. That's what I thought!Seibertron wrote:Optimus21577 wrote:Excuse me? I'm part of the problem?? It's bigots like you that are the real problem. I have never sold anything to anyone that didn't know exactly what they were getting! I have hundreds of feedback to prove it. What do you have??
Made up stats that prove nothing! So shove it!
You are something else calling me a "bigot". Your misuse or lack of understanding of the word is unfortunate.
If you want to prove that you are not part of the problem, then change the descriptions on your website to state what those products really are instead of preying upon uninformed customers.
Seibertron wrote:Rationalizing that KOs are a good thing in any manner is a selfish view and a view that fails to see the big problem in the long run. It could also be argued the same about official reissues, but they're quality items and in many cases the reissues retain the value of the originals or even surpass their value in some cases. There is a big difference between a quality official reissue and an unofficial unlicensed counterfeit product that doesn't have to meet certain quality standards.
We collectors have a huge responsibility to make sure that future generations of Transformers fans get to enjoy quality Transformers products without having every item run the risk of being a faulty or flawed or counterfeit product. Maybe some of you don't care about this and only care about what you can afford or get your hands on. There is a much bigger picture regarding all of this. I hope that those of you who think that counterfeit products belong in this market will take some time to ponder what items like that do to water down this brand and the enjoyment of collectors in the long run.
Gauntlet101010 wrote:Preserving GPS prone figures is a good argument to make, but one that only covers a small minority of figures and not the vast majority of KOs that are made. So saying a KO of Black Zarak is a good way to preserve a figure that's falling apart doesn't really justify the KO of Scorpinok who suffers no such problem.
And it doesn't really address the concern about buying legit versions on the aftermarket, which is really the sticking point.
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