The Energon Pub

News Credits: 9 · Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:34 pm

No, not counting them to help you sleep, just counting them for your records. Warbot, Munitioner and Explorer are clearly Springer, Swindle and Blast-Off only possibly way better than anything Hasbro could produce. As they aren't official products does this mean they don't count towards your total TF er... count?

News Credits: 241 · Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:43 pm

I'd just count them separately. Official TF's and 3rd Party TF's. Simple as that.

News Credits: 2 · Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:48 pm

"possibly way better than anything Hasbro could produce."

I don't think Hasbro couldn't produce such toys because they've shown before that they're capable of impressive toy engineering. However, that's for another discussion.

Back to this thread's topic, I don't count these types of figures as Transformers. They're not Transformers, they're transforming figures.

News Credits: 9 · Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:04 am

That's what I though people would say!

Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:19 am

I think that is the best way to count them......or not count them. I would count them as separate, personally.

News Credits: 1452 · Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:26 am

All for one and one for all. I don't discriminate because the third party stuff I buy fits right in.

News Credits: 11 · Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:16 am

You'd buy it of course (c'mon, who wouldn't?), but would you count it in your total? While they're not KOs, they're not produced or endorsed by Hasbro or Takara, so regardless of what characters they represent, I think they shouldn't count in the official total. Like KOs.

News Credits: 2 · Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:51 am

I believe Hasbro can but they don't due to the market price and mainly focus on child and to try to fulfill adult collectors. They cannot put up a scout class figure on the retail store which costs nearly $50. No parents or grandparents will buy it.

Many times I am debating with my self, too. Should I count mini-cons and spychangers, or not? My kids like those small figures and take them everywhere, so they don't sit on my shelf.

Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:55 am

I personally count 3rd party figures as actual transformers products. My logic is that if they're made by Transformer fans with the intent to represent or homage specific Transformers, then it may as well be counted in my transformer collection.

I actually count EVERY transformer when I'm keeping records. That means that RID Railracer counts as 3 tranformers and not just 1 because it's a gestalt. I also count minicons as Transformers. Cyberton Vector Prime and Safeguard count as 2 separate transformers and not just 1. Non Transforming toys also count as Transformers (Revoltech, Robot Heroes, Mighty Muggs, Action Masters, RPM's etc). However, Armor, Action Master Vehicles, Power Core Drones and Trailers do not count as Transformers, just the robots themselves. Transformers merchandise such as helmets, lunch pales, and walkie talkies also do not count towards my transformer collection. I'm still not sure how I will count the Stealth Stars (or whatever that new line is where the vehicle basically turns into an armored/missile packing vehicle).

Using this method, I have about 700 figures.

News Credits: 1 · Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:56 am

If they're in my TF collection I'd count 'em. If I counted TFs. Since my count would be the toys within my collection whether they're official or not.

But TF counting is rife with these sort of questions. Do Minicons, that come with TFs and are clearly a certain TF's accessory, count as an individual bot? If you bought a combiner 5 pack, like RotF Bruticus, does it count as 5, 6, or 1? What about Headmasters or Targetmasters?

News Credits: 1 · Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:55 am

If they're in my TF collection I'd count 'em. If I counted TFs. Since my count would be the toys within my collection whether they're official or not.

But TF counting is rife with these sort of questions. Do Minicons, that come with TFs and are clearly a certain TF's accessory, count as an individual bot? If you bought a combiner 5 pack, like RotF Bruticus, does it count as 5, 6, or 1? What about Headmasters or Targetmasters?

News Credits: 9 · Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:06 pm

WolfDawg wrote:Non Transforming toys also count as Transformers (Revoltech, Robot Heroes, Mighty Muggs, Action Masters, RPM's etc).

I don't agree here: I won't count it in my Transformers collection if it doesn't transform!

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Do Minicons, that come with TFs and are clearly a certain TF's accessory, count as an individual bot? If you bought a combiner 5 pack, like RotF Bruticus, does it count as 5, 6, or 1? What about Headmasters or Targetmasters?

I think the consideration here is whether or not it can function without the others. Can a minicon function without it's larger partner? Yes. They can transform between robot and alt mode. Can a member of a combining team function without the rest of the team? In the case of G1, RiD and Energon combiners, yes they can. They still have robot and alt modes. In the case of ROTF 'supreme' Dev and 5pack PCC limbs don't count as they only transform to combine. Can Headmasters function without their partners? No. Transforming into a head is no use without a body. The body can't transform without it's head.

News Credits: 20 · Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:43 pm

I change my criteria fairly often so I simply don't count them. Although the last time I did, I believe I was up to the 700 range.

News Credits: 11 · Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:03 am

Minicons & Power/Targetmasters? Yes.
Headmasters? Hard to say.
Gestalt team members? Yes.
Full Gestalts? No. You're essentially counting each team member 1.2 times, for 5-figure teams.

News Credits: 2 · Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:56 am

As for the 3rd party figures question, they have to be counted SOMEHOW. Their value alone seems to warrant a spot somewhere, whether it be in the collection itself or in the "3rd party" category, as some suggested. Also, these aren't simply random transforming robots here--many/most of them are either updates on existing characters (mutioner/explorer)or completely obvious direct homages to characters who haven't been done justice yet (defender).

Companies like Fansproject at least deserve their figures to be counted somehow, after looking at what they've given the fandom recently. :APPLAUSE:

News Credits: 11 · Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:19 pm

X number of Transformers + Y number of 3rd Party Figures = Z number of total figures.

I just think it's worth noting that they're not official figures, as awesome as they are. Otherwise I could count my KO Mirage too, but I don't.

News Credits: 150 · Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:13 pm

Gauntlet101010 wrote:If you bought a combiner 5 pack, like RotF Bruticus, does it count as 5, 6, or 1?

This was always the silliest quesntion. A 5 robot combiner is 5 robots...not 6. How can the fact that it combines all of a sudden give you the asset of another figure. It would be like walking into a store with a $1 Dollar Bill and a $5 dollar bill and saying you had $15 dollars. Do people forget you are counting figures and not characters?

News Credits: 3649 · Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:54 pm

Gauntlet101010 wrote:If they're in my TF collection I'd count 'em. If I counted TFs. Since my count would be the toys within my collection whether they're official or not.

But TF counting is rife with these sort of questions. Do Minicons, that come with TFs and are clearly a certain TF's accessory, count as an individual bot? If you bought a combiner 5 pack, like RotF Bruticus, does it count as 5, 6, or 1? What about Headmasters or Targetmasters?

I'd count the 3rd party products as part of your collection. I don't see why not.

As for Headmasters, Targetmasteres, Powermasters, Pretenders and Action Masters ... the partner/accessory is required in order for the primary figure to be complete so it's only counted as 1.

News Credits: 3649 · Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:57 pm

GetterDragun wrote:
Gauntlet101010 wrote:If you bought a combiner 5 pack, like RotF Bruticus, does it count as 5, 6, or 1?

This was always the silliest quesntion. A 5 robot combiner is 5 robots...not 6. How can the fact that it combines all of a sudden give you the asset of another figure. It would be like walking into a store with a $1 Dollar Bill and a $5 dollar bill and saying you had $15 dollars. Do people forget you are counting figures and not characters?

I think that's the difference. Are you counting figures or characters? Combines are counted by the sum of their indivdual components. Monstructor is 6 toys and 7 characters. G1 Bruticus is 5 toys and 6 characters. The combined mode uses a similar rationale to the Targetmasters and Headmasters ... the combined mode doesn't exist without its individual figures thought the individual figures can exist without the combined mode.

News Credits: 3649 · Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:00 pm

Haven't really thought about the Mini-Cons. I guess I'd count the Mini-Cons separately but that doesn't really work for the Mini-Cons that are included with other figures though I would consider TRU Universe Ramjet as 4 toys, not 1.

News Credits: 150 · Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:25 pm

Seibertron wrote:
GetterDragun wrote:
Gauntlet101010 wrote:If you bought a combiner 5 pack, like RotF Bruticus, does it count as 5, 6, or 1?

This was always the silliest quesntion. A 5 robot combiner is 5 robots...not 6. How can the fact that it combines all of a sudden give you the asset of another figure. It would be like walking into a store with a $1 Dollar Bill and a $5 dollar bill and saying you had $15 dollars. Do people forget you are counting figures and not characters?

I think that's the difference. Are you counting figures or characters? Combines are counted by the sum of their indivdual components. Monstructor is 6 toys and 7 characters. G1 Bruticus is 5 toys and 6 characters. The combined mode uses a similar rationale to the Targetmasters and Headmasters ... the combined mode doesn't exist without its individual figures thought the individual figures can exist without the combined mode.

Usually people do it that way to inflate their colelction count though. Funny how when they have a combiner combined on the shelf that they don't decrease their collection count.

News Credits: 3649 · Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:28 pm

GetterDragun wrote:
Seibertron wrote:
GetterDragun wrote:
Gauntlet101010 wrote:If you bought a combiner 5 pack, like RotF Bruticus, does it count as 5, 6, or 1?

This was always the silliest quesntion. A 5 robot combiner is 5 robots...not 6. How can the fact that it combines all of a sudden give you the asset of another figure. It would be like walking into a store with a $1 Dollar Bill and a $5 dollar bill and saying you had $15 dollars. Do people forget you are counting figures and not characters?

I think that's the difference. Are you counting figures or characters? Combines are counted by the sum of their indivdual components. Monstructor is 6 toys and 7 characters. G1 Bruticus is 5 toys and 6 characters. The combined mode uses a similar rationale to the Targetmasters and Headmasters ... the combined mode doesn't exist without its individual figures thought the individual figures can exist without the combined mode.

Usually people do it that way to inflate their colelction count though. Funny how when they have a combiner combined on the shelf that they don't decrease their collection count.

Nothing wrong with that if it makes them happy about their collection. I used to count my Targetmasters and Headmasters as 2 figures when I was younger so that it seemed like I had more figures. I think I also used to count the Pretenders as 2 as well. To each their own.

News Credits: 1082 · Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:51 pm

kirbenvost wrote:Minicons & Power/Targetmasters? Yes.
Headmasters? Hard to say.
Gestalt team members? Yes.
Full Gestalts? No. You're essentially counting each team member 1.2 times, for 5-figure teams.

Headmasters are just one to me.

I mean you can have an alt mode, but without the headmaster it's not a 'real' figure.

So to me the headmaster head is the character (unlike US G1 S4), and the body is just a large mech-type suit (transector/transtector). Same with PM's, Brainmasters too, except with PM's you do actually have a full body/head w/o the engine... BMs not complete without 'the little guy', thus he is the controller and the bot, and the BM is again a mech.

News Credits: 1082 · Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:55 pm

Seibertron wrote:Haven't really thought about the Mini-Cons. I guess I'd count the Mini-Cons separately but that doesn't really work for the Mini-Cons that are included with other figures though I would consider TRU Universe Ramjet as 4 toys, not 1.

I think the minicons included with the large figures are indeed their own count or character. If you read DW's old Armada stuff, the minicons are their own people, who choose to link up, or get forced to link up, with the larger bots to power them up. The Destruction team made Cyclonus insanely powerful, but mostly insane. So they could even effect the personality of the larger robots to more or less reflect themselves to a degree.

News Credits: 1 · Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:33 pm

tigertracks 24 wrote:
Seibertron wrote:Haven't really thought about the Mini-Cons. I guess I'd count the Mini-Cons separately but that doesn't really work for the Mini-Cons that are included with other figures though I would consider TRU Universe Ramjet as 4 toys, not 1.

I think the minicons included with the large figures are indeed their own count or character. If you read DW's old Armada stuff, the minicons are their own people, who choose to link up, or get forced to link up, with the larger bots to power them up. The Destruction team made Cyclonus insanely powerful, but mostly insane. So they could even effect the personality of the larger robots to more or less reflect themselves to a degree.

But, as far as the toys go, they are an accessory.

But I'd probably count them, especially if I bought them individually.