The Energon Pub

Razorclaw0000 wrote:I can't count on my own anymore, so I turned to a site to help me manage (I wish we had this data tied into the VSD here, but I go where I've got to go):

http://www.shmax.com/view_collection/1/50

By that site's counts, I have 1373 "packages", which expands to 1951 "figures".

Yeah I'm in the process of filling in my data on schmax.

I tried to register on shmax but when I get to the box with the code you have to type all I see is a red x.

Razorclaw0000 wrote:I can't count on my own anymore, so I turned to a site to help me manage (I wish we had this data tied into the VSD here, but I go where I've got to go):

This has been a longtime goal of the VSD. One day, hopefully in the near future!

Mykltron wrote:Thanks to tigertracks 24 I'm now confused about Ravage etc. as without Soundwave they are pretty useless in alt mode.

Going by the full functionality argument Reflector is one. Tapes can't do much by themselves, neither can guns and heads, but then neither can cars - they normally don't drive themselves. Now I'm so confused I don't know where I live or what my name is.

The tapes count individually because Soundwave and Blaster do not need their cassettes in order to be complete. I'm one who thinks that Reflector counts as 3 because it is 3 separate individual robot toys, similar to a gestalt but the gestalt form in this case is Reflector, their combined alternate mode (similar to Micromaster Combiners which count as two each even though they really need each other to have a complete vehicle mode). Duocons only count as 1 each because it takes two vehicles to make 1 robot.

Seibertron wrote:

Mykltron wrote:Thanks to tigertracks 24 I'm now confused about Ravage etc. as without Soundwave they are pretty useless in alt mode.

Going by the full functionality argument Reflector is one. Tapes can't do much by themselves, neither can guns and heads, but then neither can cars - they normally don't drive themselves. Now I'm so confused I don't know where I live or what my name is.

The tapes count individually because Soundwave and Blaster do not need their cassettes in order to be complete. I'm one who thinks that Reflector counts as 3 because it is 3 separate individual robot toys, similar to a gestalt but the gestalt form in this case is Reflector, their combined alternate mode (similar to Micromaster Combiners which count as two each even though they really need each other to have a complete vehicle mode). Duocons only count as 1 each because it takes two vehicles to make 1 robot.

Ah, I see, so by your method Targetmasters count as two because the larger robot doesn't need a gun. A gun could be wielded by anyone whereas only a few can use a Headmaster head.

Mykltron wrote:

Seibertron wrote:

Mykltron wrote:Thanks to tigertracks 24 I'm now confused about Ravage etc. as without Soundwave they are pretty useless in alt mode.

Going by the full functionality argument Reflector is one. Tapes can't do much by themselves, neither can guns and heads, but then neither can cars - they normally don't drive themselves. Now I'm so confused I don't know where I live or what my name is.

The tapes count individually because Soundwave and Blaster do not need their cassettes in order to be complete. I'm one who thinks that Reflector counts as 3 because it is 3 separate individual robot toys, similar to a gestalt but the gestalt form in this case is Reflector, their combined alternate mode (similar to Micromaster Combiners which count as two each even though they really need each other to have a complete vehicle mode). Duocons only count as 1 each because it takes two vehicles to make 1 robot.

Ah, I see, so by your method Targetmasters count as two because the larger robot doesn't need a gun. A gun could be wielded by anyone whereas only a few can use a Headmaster head.

No, never said that. Targetmasters count as one because it is the weapon of the larger robot which is required in order for the figure to be complete. Every rule does not make 100% sense for every single figure.

Reflector is the sum of his 3 individual robots: Spyglass, Viewfinder, and Spectro. Reflector is their gestalt form, in my opinion, ala Devastator. If you want to count Reflector as 1 or 3 it makes no difference to me.

I would count Reflector as 3 personally, but I'm still not sure about Targetmasters & in-pack Minicons. It makes sense that they are separate character/robots, but they are packaged in with a larger figure which would be incomplete without it... but then, I think I would count Ravage/Laserbeak/etc. So maybe I will stick with counting robots as opposed to purchases or characters.

kirbenvost wrote:I would count Reflector as 3 personally, but I'm still not sure about Targetmasters & in-pack Minicons. It makes sense that they are separate character/robots, but they are packaged in with a larger figure which would be incomplete without it... but then, I think I would count Ravage/Laserbeak/etc. So maybe I will stick with counting robots as opposed to purchases or characters.

There shouldn't be any debate about the cassettes. They're no different than any multi-packaged item. Ravage, Laserbeak and the rest of the cassettes are counted as 1 each, separate from Soundwave, because this is no different than the giftsets for Devastator and the rest of the Gestalts from G1, Energon, Universe, or ROTF. In addition, the Cassettes were available individually in Japan and 2 packs in the US. The SDCC 2009 Soundwave set is 5 toys in 1 package.

How you count Mini-Cons is up to you. The precedent is that Mini-Cons are each their own figure and I think a lot of them got their own bios in the Dreamwave Armada "More Than Meets The Eye" books as well as the Transformers Collectors Club magazines. In the aftermarket, if you bought a Mini-Con such as Jolt separate from Hot Shot, you'd probably say that you added 1 to your collection. What if you were just a Mini-Con collector (there's some of them out there)? Wouldn't you count each Mini-Con separately? Not to mention that some of the Mini-Cons that had come with other figures at one point were later available in separate packages (primarily in Japan such as the Dead End mold).

Targetmasters are the same as Headmasters. They're needed to complete the original figure. while I'd say this is true for figures like Armada Hot Shot and Jolt as well, it's the precedent of them being considered a separate character that would make me count them as two.

I think counting Transformers is silly.

Count as you please. It just makes the most sense. There is no agreed upon manner, and too many variables to agree on.

tigertracks 24 wrote:Count as you please. It just makes the most sense. There is no agreed upon manner, and too many variables to agree on.

The only permissible way to count them is to roll them all up in your Katamari and weigh it.

The person with the largest clump shall be declared the winner by THE KING OF ALL COSMOS. Now and FOREVER.

Not to disagree with CP, but I have always thought that if it has a spark/soul, then it counts as 1.

--B-- wrote:Not to disagree with CP, but I have always thought that if it has a spark/soul, then it counts as 1.

Vehicon drones don't count towards the clump?

(ok, maybe I see why this is fun now that we're all playing Munchkin...)

Counterpunch wrote:

--B-- wrote:Not to disagree with CP, but I have always thought that if it has a spark/soul, then it counts as 1.

Vehicon drones don't count towards the clump?

(ok, maybe I see why this is fun now that we're all playing Munchkin...)

Last time I counted( not including a couple of knock offs and a few third party products) i stopped and gave up at 4,000.

Seibertron wrote:

kirbenvost wrote:I would count Reflector as 3 personally, but I'm still not sure about Targetmasters & in-pack Minicons. It makes sense that they are separate character/robots, but they are packaged in with a larger figure which would be incomplete without it... but then, I think I would count Ravage/Laserbeak/etc. So maybe I will stick with counting robots as opposed to purchases or characters.

There shouldn't be any debate about the cassettes. They're no different than any multi-packaged item. Ravage, Laserbeak and the rest of the cassettes are counted as 1 each, separate from Soundwave, because this is no different than the giftsets for Devastator and the rest of the Gestalts from G1, Energon, Universe, or ROTF. In addition, the Cassettes were available individually in Japan and 2 packs in the US. The SDCC 2009 Soundwave set is 5 toys in 1 package.

How you count Mini-Cons is up to you. The precedent is that Mini-Cons are each their own figure and I think a lot of them got their own bios in the Dreamwave Armada "More Than Meets The Eye" books as well as the Transformers Collectors Club magazines. In the aftermarket, if you bought a Mini-Con such as Jolt separate from Hot Shot, you'd probably say that you added 1 to your collection. What if you were just a Mini-Con collector (there's some of them out there)? Wouldn't you count each Mini-Con separately? Not to mention that some of the Mini-Cons that had come with other figures at one point were later available in separate packages (primarily in Japan such as the Dead End mold).

Targetmasters are the same as Headmasters. They're needed to complete the original figure. while I'd say this is true for figures like Armada Hot Shot and Jolt as well, it's the precedent of them being considered a separate character that would make me count them as two.

The cassettes were all sold seperately in japan, as were extra head master heads and pwoermaster(godmaster) engines. Do those count?

And whilst were at it do Battle Beast count or only if they are the japanese ones with Cybertron and Destron rub signs?

What about those odd little wonerfest 1 day model kits as they are officially endorsed products made by third parties?

Neurie wrote:The cassettes were all sold seperately in japan, as were extra head master heads and pwoermaster(godmaster) engines. Do those count?

The unique individually sold Powermasters and Headmasters count as one as they are not needed to complete anything. Hi-Q is necessary to complete Powermaster Optimus Prime, not to mention in order for him to transform. Same with all of the rest of the Powermasters.

Neurie wrote:And whilst were at it do Battle Beast count or only if they are the japanese ones with Cybertron and Destron rub signs?

There are NO Battle Beasts that have rubsigns. Whether you count them or not is up to you. I would think that they should be counted as a separate collection. I do not count them as part of my Transformers collection though I'm only missing 3 that were sold in the US.

Neurie wrote:What about those odd little wonerfest 1 day model kits as they are officially endorsed products made by third parties?

They should count. Why would they not count?

Powermasters can transform without the engine...

tigertracks 24 wrote:Powermasters can transform without the engine...

Yeah, if you push in the buttons that the engine are supposed to depress so not really. Powermaster is needed for the partner to be complete.

Seibertron wrote:

Mykltron wrote:

Seibertron wrote:

Mykltron wrote:Thanks to tigertracks 24 I'm now confused about Ravage etc. as without Soundwave they are pretty useless in alt mode.

Going by the full functionality argument Reflector is one. Tapes can't do much by themselves, neither can guns and heads, but then neither can cars - they normally don't drive themselves. Now I'm so confused I don't know where I live or what my name is.

The tapes count individually because Soundwave and Blaster do not need their cassettes in order to be complete. I'm one who thinks that Reflector counts as 3 because it is 3 separate individual robot toys, similar to a gestalt but the gestalt form in this case is Reflector, their combined alternate mode (similar to Micromaster Combiners which count as two each even though they really need each other to have a complete vehicle mode). Duocons only count as 1 each because it takes two vehicles to make 1 robot.

Ah, I see, so by your method Targetmasters count as two because the larger robot doesn't need a gun. A gun could be wielded by anyone whereas only a few can use a Headmaster head.

No, never said that. Targetmasters count as one because it is the weapon of the larger robot which is required in order for the figure to be complete. Every rule does not make 100% sense for every single figure.

I think the same way...except I count my Power Master Engines that came packaged individually as a robot, but not the power masters that came with a regular Transformer.

Seibertron wrote:Targetmasters are the same as Headmasters. They're needed to complete the original figure. while I'd say this is true for figures like Armada Hot Shot and Jolt as well, it's the precedent of them being considered a separate character that would make me count them as two.

I'm not so sure! Surely a robot without his gun is more complete than a cassette player with no cassettes? Even so, it feels wrong to count a targetmaster gun separately.

AHA! New thoughts have occured:
1) a gun is complete by itself, although useless without someone to wield it. A cassette player or a cassette is complete, although not much use without the other. All of these have complete robot modes so can be counted as complete;
2) a car is a complete unit but a head is not and headmasters pairs have only one complete robot mode between them, therefore are counted as one;
3) I've never bought a pack of spare heads so I don't need to worry how to count them!