The Energon Pub

As Beast Wars has proven... no.

What a TF series needs to succeed is good writing!

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:As Beast Wars has proven... no.

What a TF series needs to succeed is good writing!

Well, that's a good start, but a decent animation budget goes a long way.

I liked the fact that although the G1 Autobots outnumbered the (stronger but not necessarily more capable) Decepticons, Optimus had to divert some of his forces/attention/strategic initiative to defend Humans caught in the destruction, which I believe is what the Protectobots were commissioned to take charge of.

Also, Megatron knew he could draw Optimus and his standing army into a battle by attacking any Humans anywhere, confident that Optimus would show up to defend.

Therefore, I would like to see multiple,random humans helping, hating, being helped by and even being hated by the Transformers, but not moving in and becoming part of the regular story. Optimus would try to defend any demolished city from going through a second TF battle whenever possible. I agree that the ones who 'move in' to the story should be agreeable, such as the G1 examples who pitched in consistently especially with the mechanical work.

Some more approachable Bots such as Jazz, Silverstreak, Bumblebee, maybe Beachcomber,Hound, Seaspray and so on could have many different Human friends but their concept of time could be 'I'll see you again soon" and visit them again when they're much older.

It's definitely a story about a group of robots' forced migration/stranding upon a planet first, expanded later into a group of robots' involvement with many planets.The Human presence in a secondary factor.
The story could work just fine if the Autobots treated the Humans as nothing above sometimes surprisingly smart animals-"Aaaaw, how cute, I told him to shoo so I don't step on him and he climbed onto my foot to hitch a ride! Can I keep him Optimus? Can I? Huh?"

Certain humans were ok Spike,Sparkplug and the kids from Cybertron werent too bad even Sari was ok.

But Kicker(I couldnt stand him)
and the kids from RID and Armada
I could've lived without

He did fight a decent amount, but nobody could stand his whining. at least in G1 spike was the far side of 16 and had the decency to stay the hell out of most of the screen time.

Just started Masterforce, and I am at the halfway point. I got to say for a Human centric TF show, it's actually pretty good. Even the kids aren't nearly annoying as some of the token kids in other TF shows. I do like Not-Optimus/Ginari, and Overlord gets plenty of bad ass moments in the show.

angelababy wrote:He did fight a decent amount, but nobody could stand his whining. at least in G1 spike was the far side of 16 and had the decency to stay the hell out of most of the screen time.

16? He got pulled over becuase he was too young to drive Bumblebee.

Chupacabra Convoy wrote:Just started Masterforce, and I am at the halfway point. I got to say for a Human centric TF show, it's actually pretty good. Even the kids aren't nearly annoying as some of the token kids in other TF shows. I do like Not-Optimus/Ginari, and Overlord gets plenty of bad ass moments in the show.

Chojin Masterforce has the BEST human cast of any TF series! Even the most annoying of the TF-allied humans (which isn't saying much) prove to be both useful and competent characters.

Here's a question for everyone:

Who here, when still a kid, actually liked or cared about the human characters in whatever series you grew up with?

Rodimus the Prime wrote:Here's a question for everyone:

Who here, when still a kid, actually liked or cared about the human characters in whatever series you grew up with?

Me.Here and there.(Nice question, I like!)

I cared about and admired the dude with the glasses from Robotech (Max Sterling?),and admired,cared and worried about and looked up to Howling Mad Murdoch; I envied but disliked the Pizza guy from M.A.S.K who drove CONDOR (the HeliCycle) around,liked and worried about the dude with the mustache from Centurions, liked and worried about the Sorceress and Stratos from He-man (don't know if either count as Human),and liked and cared,but never worried about The Ultimate Warrior from Rock & Roll Wrestling/Wrestlmania.Was awed enough by Hordak to want him to stay alive long enough for me to study.
I doubt I ever cared or worried about Spike at all but propably relied on his presence inexorably. Sparkplug, I took seriously as an elder, understood the depth of his contribution and danger levels 100%,but never threw a mental shield around him even once. If Ravage attacked him I'd be watching for signs Ravage will survive.There was someone from D&D i cared about but I forget who.

Off topic,but to show the impact of the Human factor:
#1 Lifelong Cartoon lesson: The 'removal' of one of the top 5 robots in Astroboy that Atlas wanted to kill to become most powerful robot ever.I know he/it wasn't Human-but one of the Robots-the third in order of defeat,I think,was this peaceful bot introduced as a child-shepherding type of Guardian.Nothing ever impacted on me in 80's Cartoondom as much as his destruction in the name of an addiction to single-mindedness.Propably changed me permanently.
#2 Lifelong Cartoon lesson: A frequent He-Man,Dungeons & Dragons & Scooby Doo plot: The bad guy creates or enslaves an undefeatable monster that has the Superfriends on the backpedal. Storming the enemy stronghold from the front gate is no longer an option so they take the Secret Entrance, quickly coming to the Dungeon area where the monster,currently unrequired, is chained up. The superfriends tell it,whilst it breaks its' shackles to attack them:"Bad Guy isn't your friend, don't you see he's using you? Come with us, there's a home for you with us!" and so on.Storyline was retold enough times to become an understood concept.

You?

(PS: Anyone else think,in fuzzy memory retrospect,the Cavalier (Eric?) from D&D was a little bit like Shia's version of Sam Witwicky?)

Rodimus the Prime wrote:Here's a question for everyone:

Who here, when still a kid, actually liked or cared about the human characters in whatever series you grew up with?

Answer #1: Well, the TF series I grew up with was Beast Wars. So, yes, I did care about the (proto)humans of that series, as their deaths would've meant the nonexistence of the human race.

Answer #2: For any other non-TF series I grew up with, the answer is still yes, as those other shows were mostly all human-centric shows. Any non-human shows like Beast Wars that I watched were far and few.

Sabrblade wrote:

Chupacabra Convoy wrote:Just started Masterforce, and I am at the halfway point. I got to say for a Human centric TF show, it's actually pretty good. Even the kids aren't nearly annoying as some of the token kids in other TF shows. I do like Not-Optimus/Ginari, and Overlord gets plenty of bad ass moments in the show.

Chojin Masterforce has the BEST human cast of any TF series! Even the most annoying of the TF-allied humans (which isn't saying much) prove to be both useful and competent characters.

Yeah, my only compliant is that Cybertrons had victory after victory. So far the Destrons need a bone.

Chupacabra Convoy wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Chupacabra Convoy wrote:Just started Masterforce, and I am at the halfway point. I got to say for a Human centric TF show, it's actually pretty good. Even the kids aren't nearly annoying as some of the token kids in other TF shows. I do like Not-Optimus/Ginari, and Overlord gets plenty of bad ass moments in the show.

Chojin Masterforce has the BEST human cast of any TF series! Even the most annoying of the TF-allied humans (which isn't saying much) prove to be both useful and competent characters.

Yeah, my only compliant is that Cybertrons had victory after victory. So far the Destrons need a bone.

Until Ginrai showed up, Hydra and Buster kept one-upping the Autobots. And when Overlord first appeared in battle, he pwned Super Ginrai. And towards the end of the series, things do get pretty critical for the Autobots in that they suffer a major loss and find it harder and harder to claim victory (even if they do so in the end, but not at an easy task).

Beast Wars was great at the same time, Animated had likable human characters and was good.
I think if they have likable human characters, then the series can still work.
Kicker is the prime example of a non-likable character...

Rodimus the Prime wrote:Here's a question for everyone:

Who here, when still a kid, actually liked or cared about the human characters in whatever series you grew up with?

Hmm, yeah. I cared about Spike, Carly, Sparkplug and Chip from G1. Still like them too.

Yeah, G1's humans were.....un-annoying.
Chip was pretty likable actually.

Rodimus the Prime wrote:Here's a question for everyone:

Who here, when still a kid, actually liked or cared about the human characters in whatever series you grew up with?

I grew up with Beast Wars, and while I didn't exactly relate to them in anyway, I did see them as important characters (arguably as important as the Autobots in the Ark) due to their status as the ancestors of our entire species (again, much in the same vein as the Autobots were to the Maximals)

As to the original question: Yes and no. I think there inclusion offers a realistic sense of the world. Without humans, the story wouldn't make sense being on Earth. The Transformers couldn't exactly wage their battle without drawing some form of attention. Kids of course don't want to see the US military gun down Optimus, so the more kid-friendly approach is to make the Autobots kid-friendly. It's a way of saying to kids, "Hey, just pretend you're Spike or Sari or Kicker or... and you, too, can fight alongside your Autobot heroes". Granted, when the humans become more annoying then helpful, they are easily forgettable and regrettable to have been included, but part of what differentiates the two warring factions is Prime's desire to protect all sentient life. Megatron threatens that freedom on Earth, and Prime makes it a directive to stop him. Naturally they would befriend some humans along the way to seeing that goal to it's end.

And with regards to "more human drama than ever", I think we're being a bit presumptuous as to what that entails. I hope it's more of a "Autobots and Decepticons caught fighting with and against different human factions, some seeking to aid them in the quest, others seeking to destroy these alien invaders" type of story. The way some people are reacting, though, you'd think Optimus was going to spend the whole series listening to Bella talk about how she can't decide between Jacob and his steamy abs and empty thoughts or Edward and his pale skin and dull disposition.

I think for those hoping to see a "Last Stand of the Wreckers" or more Cybertron-centric story (myself wholeheartedly hoping for something like that), Hasbro's best route is to release direct-to-DVD films like DC has been doing. Let's face, Hasbro makes these toys (and subsequent media tie-ins) for kids. And the likelihood we'll see a show without Optimus, Megatron, Bumblebee AND human characters, set on Earth, is relatively slim. Especially if we want to see the Wreckers in action. Which I really, really, do.

Hnnn, some interesting answers thus far!

orriezaros wrote:Me.Here and there.(Nice question, I like!)

I cared about and admired the dude with the glasses from Robotech (Max Sterling?),and admired,cared and worried about and looked up to Howling Mad Murdoch; I envied but disliked the Pizza guy from M.A.S.K who drove CONDOR (the HeliCycle) around,liked and worried about the dude with the mustache from Centurions, liked and worried about the Sorceress and Stratos from He-man (don't know if either count as Human),and liked and cared,but never worried about The Ultimate Warrior from Rock & Roll Wrestling/Wrestlmania.Was awed enough by Hordak to want him to stay alive long enough for me to study.
I doubt I ever cared or worried about Spike at all but propably relied on his presence inexorably. Sparkplug, I took seriously as an elder, understood the depth of his contribution and danger levels 100%,but never threw a mental shield around him even once. If Ravage attacked him I'd be watching for signs Ravage will survive.There was someone from D&D i cared about but I forget who.

Off topic,but to show the impact of the Human factor:
#1 Lifelong Cartoon lesson: The 'removal' of one of the top 5 robots in Astroboy that Atlas wanted to kill to become most powerful robot ever.I know he/it wasn't Human-but one of the Robots-the third in order of defeat,I think,was this peaceful bot introduced as a child-shepherding type of Guardian.Nothing ever impacted on me in 80's Cartoondom as much as his destruction in the name of an addiction to single-mindedness.Propably changed me permanently.
#2 Lifelong Cartoon lesson: A frequent He-Man,Dungeons & Dragons & Scooby Doo plot: The bad guy creates or enslaves an undefeatable monster that has the Superfriends on the backpedal. Storming the enemy stronghold from the front gate is no longer an option so they take the Secret Entrance, quickly coming to the Dungeon area where the monster,currently unrequired, is chained up. The superfriends tell it,whilst it breaks its' shackles to attack them:"Bad Guy isn't your friend, don't you see he's using you? Come with us, there's a home for you with us!" and so on.Storyline was retold enough times to become an understood concept.

You?

(PS: Anyone else think,in fuzzy memory retrospect,the Cavalier (Eric?) from D&D was a little bit like Shia's version of Sam Witwicky?)

Actually, I'd meant only with respect to TF series, but, what you've mentioned is quite interesting too!
Personally, as a kid, I'd not cared much for the human characters. Okay well, I did care in the usual rudimentary way, ala for Buster's safety when Optimus blasted the Creation Matrix into his head. Obviously I didn't want them to suffer. Still, I was more set on how and when the Autobots were going to be rescued and revived and how the heck poor Ratchet was going to go about doing that.
To this day, my favourite arc in the Marvel series was Blaster's ordeal against the Deceps of Darkmount, and the first issue of the Headmasters series. Whenever the story got away from Earth was when I was most interested in TFs. Jetfire was my favourite character/ toy as a kid, since he could turn into a Veritech fighter and wasn't bound to Earth the way the others were. With that, I would dream up all sorts of adventures he'd have in space.
I remember drawing a big picture of Cybertron in those days, and then cutting it out and pasting it on my wall and just staring at it (I was half hoping that if I dreamed hard enough, I could become an Autobot and get the heck back to Iacon, Lol!). Needless to say, I'd loved TF: The Movie all the more so, since it got them on a sweet space adventure.

As for your D&D reference, it's funny, I didn't like the show much, because most everyone seemed like a futz, especially Eric. Plus, the guy with the coolest weapon didn't seem to do much; D&D was basically the show that was on before the show I'd really woke up on Saturday morning to see: Battle of the Planets!

zenosaurus_x wrote:Yeah, G1's humans were.....un-annoying.
Chip was pretty likable actually.

It helped that all four of the main humans brought technical skills to the table. And weren't as young as the UT children.

True, I remember when Cybertron came out, I particularly hated Lori or whatever her name was...
A stop light in the middle of nowhere on a one way street....
-_-