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AutobotMR2 wrote:But 7 Bumblebee toys and 10 Optimus Prime Toys...in one toy line mind you....absolutley won't drive collectors away.

Not saying Hasbro hasn't made some bad choices, but it's still not unlicensed companies places to address the problem.

Lord Onixprime wrote:

AutobotMR2 wrote:

Lord Onixprime wrote:

AutobotMR2 wrote:

Lord Onixprime wrote:

griftimus prime wrote:get a little scared there hasbro? 3rd party sellers should still not go just to hurt hasbro. they wanted to play dirty. now its war.

Assuming you mean stores that sell third party products, would that really hurt Hasbro? It might destroy Botcon and everyone's weekend, but would it really do anything to Hasbro?

I don't see how people can side with 3rd party manufactures. They are infringing on an international IP. Hasbro has to crack down now before 3rd parties get to a point where they start finding cost efficient ways of producing their product and start really cutting into Hasbro and Takara's market.

Yes, we must stop these wonderful Ultra Magnus, Devestator, Springer, etc. homages and encourage false promises, endless seeker/ other figure repaints, and limited stocks throughout the US.

And while you're at it, lets totally kill off the Transformers franchise and programing so that we have nothing to actually be fans of.

Well considering the thing that got me into Transformers collecting, i.e. spending ALOT of money on OFFICIAL HASBRO PRODUCTS was the 3rd party city commander, I highly doubt it will...what was it...kill off a franchise that has been around longer than I've been alive...

That was in the toddler stage of this whole third party expansion. But now, you have companies being able to turn out products faster and faster (6 figures in a span of 6 months for Hercules) and at high quality. It only take them finding a way to make low-cost production possible and next thing you know HasTak can't keep up or compete with the rampant 3rd party KO's and the whole franchise falls a part. Knock offs have killed off the products they originally copied from and HasTak/Transformers is not immune to the very same thing happening.

It's business, and knock-offs/unlicensed products are indeed serious threat to business. You might view it as innocent companions with Hasbro product, or as vigilante companies giving fans what they really deserve, but it is all in danger of becoming a serious competitor with the ones who own the franchise they are capitalizing from.

You mention that this is business and I understand that in business that it's a dog-eat-dog world. I would rather have Has/Tak get some competition to light some serious fire under their asses. Complacency will kill a company that no longer has the willpower to want to bring better things to the table. I've always been a supporter of the Transformers franchise (minus the last 2 movies/the movie toys, they were terrible) but when there are issues, I will not turn a blind eye to it. When we complain, it's not because we are being babies and have nothing else to do with our lives, we are trying to make things better by using our strength in numbers. If everyone else is happy following the pack of apathy, by all means do it! I for one will stand my ground on being upset when I pay a ton of $ to a convention that has no organization. I for one am not a fan of waiting 5+ hours in a convention hall to pick up my exclusives and souvenir sets. I could go on, but hey have it me trolls.

Well said sir.

AutobotMR2 wrote:Well said sir.

Thank you! I'm glad we're on the same ark!

Like I said, I have spent ALOT of money, at the cost of anger from my wife on toys from Hasbro. I'm not anti Hasbro...I'm anti money grubbing.

Burn wrote:

Vicalliose wrote:

Burn wrote:I some how don't think these bans or not-bans will affect too many under 10 year olds.

Oh wait ... you're one of those who think Transformers is more of an adult thing. My bad.

As expensive as the whole trip is I'd be surprised that any kids and their (most likely bored out of their minds) parents turn up. If their parents are collectors themselves of course your statement is kinda irrelevant. We're talking about BotCon and how Hasbro's collectors offerings just suck in quality and price, at this point we could honestly do without the official club as far as I'm concerned, we get more info from Toy Fair and other non-Transformers conventions anyway.

Seriously I want to know now. How many kids can bee seen at BotCon on average?

Yes yes, BotCon isn't attended by the main target group of Transformers, it's aimed at the collectors.

That's not what i'm getting at.

What i'm getting at is this massive belief being perpetuated by those sprouting the anti-Hasbro sentiment that they are the target group of Transformers and that they're owed something by Hasbro and when Hasbro says otherwise, they cry and bemoan ... whilst running out to the nearest store to snap up the latest figures.

I'll be blunt. It's sad, it's pathetic, it's time people accepted that unless you're under the age of 15, Transformers is NOT aimed at you. You're just a minority demographic in the overall fanbase.

well said.

I for one enjoy what hasbro produces, are all the toy great...no, but a lot of them are. I like the current transformers tv show. the war for cybertron game was awesome hell I even liked the first and third live action movies(devestators design can never be forgiven so screw rotf). I would hate to see the things I enjoy go away because hasbro could not compete with this third party crap.

AutobotCliffjumper wrote:I would rather have Has/Tak get some competition to light some serious fire under their asses. Complacency will kill a company that no longer has the willpower to want to bring better things to the table.

Then maybe these companies should get together and come up with something ORIGINAL instead of basing their work on property someone else created.

They're not being competition while they're riding Hasbro/TT's coat tails.

And as for bringing better things to the table ... I think the target demographic of Transformers is quite happy with how things are. Like I said, it's this very vocal MINORITY who need to accept the fact that Transformers is NOT aimed at them and that Hasbro/TT owe them NOTHING.

That being said ... both companies DO acknowledge the minority demographic and have made plenty of attempts to appease them in recent years.

But still they bitch and moan ...

I would agree with you if the third party companies were ACTUALLY following what Hasbro is doing i.e. making toys of characters at the same time as Hasbro. But the fact is they aren't when was the last time you saw a Triple Changing Springer, or a true set of Constructicons, or updated Insecticons? Truth is...you haven't because Hasbro hasn't made them. SO what are they riding?? A toy that they haven't made in almost 20 years???????

But they are still basing their work on something another company done. It doesn't matter whether it was done yesterday or 30 years ago.

These people are clearly highly talented, if people really wanted them to be competitive, then they'd come up with something original and find a way to actually compete with Hasbro/TT instead of just running after them filling in pot holes.

AutobotMR2 wrote:I would agree with you if the third party companies were ACTUALLY following what Hasbro is doing i.e. making toys of characters at the same time as Hasbro. But the fact is they aren't when was the last time you saw a Triple Changing Springer, or a true set of Constructicons, or updated Insecticons? Truth is...you haven't because Hasbro hasn't made them. SO what are they riding?? A toy that they haven't made in almost 20 years???????

that's like saying since I havnt logged any trees out of the woods I own in awhile that it is okay for others to............

I see we are getting way off topic, but I thought I'd throw this in there...

I don't collect transforming toys. The ONLY reason these 3rd party companies get my money, is because they make recognizable and awe inspiring Transformers toys and accessories. I would MUCH MUCH MUCH prefer to buy them from Hasbro. I have no love for the 3rd party companies themselves. I wish Hasbro would straight up KO all the 3rd party stuff and put it on my shelves for a 10th the price.

njb902 wrote:

AutobotMR2 wrote:I would agree with you if the third party companies were ACTUALLY following what Hasbro is doing i.e. making toys of characters at the same time as Hasbro. But the fact is they aren't when was the last time you saw a Triple Changing Springer, or a true set of Constructicons, or updated Insecticons? Truth is...you haven't because Hasbro hasn't made them. SO what are they riding?? A toy that they haven't made in almost 20 years???????

that's like saying since I havnt logged any trees out of the woods I own in awhile that it is okay for others to............

It sounds more like, to use your analogy.....that they are logging trees made from the seeds that grew in an open field that you don't own, but since the seeds are from your trees they should be in fact YOUR trees. ANYWAY, GRR you are right, if Hasbro released their own Hercules or Warbot Defender for a significantly cheaper price, it's not even a question...bought on sight.

If there's one positive thing to come out of this is it's obvious that Hasbro ARE listening to the (minority) fanbase and are looking to make them happy.

It's like I said very early on, it was probably a decision made by Hasbro Legal, the guys like Aaron Archer and Co. (the ones who actually do interact with the public and don't hide in a court room) probably had no saying. Once the negative feedback rolled in someone obviously pushed the case against Hasbro Legal and things changed.

Now that they're listening, instead of pursuing 3rd party stuff in the courts, they might work out a way to work together.

The "club" now has new store software, and with all the damage that's been done to the Club's rep in the last few months, wouldn't that be a perfect avenue to market Hasbro endorsed 3rd party stuff?

Win Win for everyone.

Now I agree with you! I can't describe how wonderful an idea that would be!

Just think, the 3rd party guys can be contracted for the design work, then everything is assembled at Hasbro's factories, the quality control will be (slightly) better and things SHOULD be a little cheaper.

Plus it gives even more reason for people to join the Club. Instead of ANOTHER Shattered Glass character as the free figure for the year, you could get something ORIGINAL. How's that for an incentive?

It won't happen because it's too damn good of an idea.

God knows it WOULD be awesome. Think of all the money Has/Tak would save in design R&D! They could just adapt the products to meet child safety laws and work with their production facilities.

Won't happen, but it's nice to dream.

I don't think Hasbro would ever license out to any of the existing third party manufacturers. You don't stop diamond thieve by giving them a job at Zales.

However, I do wish Hasbro would give thought to the notion of a collectors division. Not a line focused on collectors but still held to the same standards as mass market toys aimed at children, but an actual collectors division that focused on high quality, super articulate figures. Focus on selling them online, through the various toy retailers who's main traffic is collectors.

Lord Onixprime wrote:I don't think Hasbro would ever license out to any of the existing third party manufacturers. You don't stop diamond thieve by giving them a job at Zales.

However, I do wish Hasbro would give thought to the notion of a collectors division. Not a line focused on collectors but still held to the same standards as mass market toys aimed at children, but an actual collectors division that focused on high quality, super articulate figures. Focus on selling them online, through the various toy retailers who's main traffic is collectors.

Anytime the collector questions come up at panels, they give the Generations and Masterpiece lines defense. I agree with you 100% that 3rd party companies will never get a Hasbro license. NEVER. But an online exclusive toy product for collectors....allegedly we have that:

http://www.transformersclub.com/

Lord Onixprime wrote:I don't think Hasbro would ever license out to any of the existing third party manufacturers. You don't stop diamond thieve by giving them a job at Zales.

They don't need to license as such, they just need to contract them.

At the end of the day Hasbro can retain the rights to the molds, but the 3rd party guys will be reimbursed (they won't have to worry about production costs) for their time and can receive some recognition. Perhaps a logo on the packaging?

It would be a win/win solution for all except the lawyers who'd only have to worry about contracts instead of drawn out legal battles. So for that reason alone it would fail.

But for anyone who will be attending the Hasbro Panel at BotCon, rather than attacking them, why not suggest/ask something like that?

Burn wrote:

Lord Onixprime wrote:I don't think Hasbro would ever license out to any of the existing third party manufacturers. You don't stop diamond thieve by giving them a job at Zales.

They don't need to license as such, they just need to contract them.

At the end of the day Hasbro can retain the rights to the molds, but the 3rd party guys will be reimbursed (they won't have to worry about production costs) for their time and can receive some recognition. Perhaps a logo on the packaging?

It would be a win/win solution for all except the lawyers who'd only have to worry about contracts instead of drawn out legal battles. So for that reason alone it would fail.

But for anyone who will be attending the Hasbro Panel at BotCon, rather than attacking them, why not suggest/ask something like that?

It was asked at CybertronCon, and the answer was NEVER. They also added the do not condone the action of 3rd party and KO companies.

Unfortunately this "contract" would be an affirmation of the potential success found in 3rd party markets. Basically, they would be rewarding the certain 3P companies that did good enough work. Consequentially spawning anyone with Blender and a Shapeways account to start making toys.

Lord Onixprime wrote:I don't think Hasbro would ever license out to any of the existing third party manufacturers. You don't stop diamond thieve by giving them a job at Zales.

actually, it's not unknown for criminals to be given jobs finding ways to stop others doing what they did. ever see Catch Me If You Can?

Hasbro utilising some of the 3rd parties as an official collectors line could work, but it won't happen, because it'd benefit everyone, and no-one wants that, apparently.

Giving fans what they want? Hah! No US MP releases in sight nor any G1 reissues slated for this year. None last year either. Just pegs flooded with Bumblebees from different lines.
Besides the FoC Bruticus and Shockwave - there is really nothing exciting coming out this year. There had better some big announcements coming at BotCon or this will be a s*%$ year again

GetRightRobot wrote:I see we are getting way off topic, but I thought I'd throw this in there...

I don't collect transforming toys. The ONLY reason these 3rd party companies get my money, is because they make recognizable and awe inspiring Transformers toys and accessories. I would MUCH MUCH MUCH prefer to buy them from Hasbro. I have no love for the 3rd party companies themselves. I wish Hasbro would straight up KO all the 3rd party stuff and put it on my shelves for a 10th the price.

OMG YES! I agree with you 100%